The next OC?
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Matt Cassel and Jimmy G had no real issues with learning McD's offense; Jacoby Brissett did OK in his one game with a working hand.
Looks like Josh is a really bad NFL Head Coach, but a really good NFL OC. Nothing wrong with that. Find your sweet spot, Josh.
My concern with Josh is that he did his best work while working under BB where there was no ambiguity about who was in charge of everything related to Patriot football.
Both times Josh strayed away and tried to be "the guy" he has failed miserably. The Raider's players hated him and got him fired after a team meeting with ownership.
I think his interpersonal skills are poor and without BB to provide cover for him I'm not sure how he would respond to taking orders from a rookie HC.
The new OC should be a guy who will completely buy into Mayo's system and work collaboratively with him and not try to be an alternative voice in the locker room.
Josh would do well following BB to his next team, but I don't want him back with the Patriots.
Disappointed with the Adrian Klemm outcome. Had high hopes he'd be a good coach for this team. His performance and conduct makes me think the team is better off without him. And if I recall he was also in the OC discussion. Maybe not seriously, but was bandied about.
To be frank, I wonder if he'll have a future coaching in the NFL. Word gets around, and the way this went makes me think it was more to it than what is being reported. And would be a bigger story in a 'normal' year. GMs and coaches probably aren't keen with that kind of insubordination. Even worse given this reputation follows him from job to job. He's going to have to adjust if he wants to do that. If it was medical/family stress that pushed him to be so confrontational then a different story.
Either way, wish him well.
To be frank, I wonder if he'll have a future coaching in the NFL. Word gets around, and the way this went makes me think it was more to it than what is being reported. And would be a bigger story in a 'normal' year. GMs and coaches probably aren't keen with that kind of insubordination. Even worse given this reputation follows him from job to job. He's going to have to adjust if he wants to do that. If it was medical/family stress that pushed him to be so confrontational then a different story.
Either way, wish him well.
Josh also did his best work when Tom Brady was the QB.
This team needs NEW blood. Enough with the cast offs. Start over and rebuild. There is no reason to move on from Belichick if the Pats are going to keep bringing in the same ol guys.
There was a report he confronted some folks--loudly--about the OL available to him.
adrian was a great college coach here at the univ of oregon....he probably thought moving to the nfl was a steppingstone to a great career.evidently he had no clue what a clusterf**k this organization has turned into.i dont blame him if he was give up his dream and stay in college and work toward a head coaching job there.im pretty sure mac jones isnt the only one dissillusioned with the way this organization has panned out
Their methodology is beyond flawed...it's pure nonsense. You can safely ignore that article.
The ESPN one is much more reasonable. You can quibble about aspects, but they've actually tried to measure draft value and they've done it in a reasonable way. And I don't think their results are particularly counter-intuitive from the Pats perspective. Overall good not great during that period, but essentially the first half was very good, the second half was bad and the overall value came from late rounds where they were excellent. I can buy all of those things.
Hopefully the new guy doesn't have to rely on what lately had "passed" for an O-line in New England. Frankly if I were a ln OC candidate, the second question I'd be asking is whether the team is going to take a pass at drafting offensive tackles altogether like they did last year (and not signing any good ones either). It would be malpractice to threat the position again as poorly as they have.
Is that supposed to be a mark in the con column or the pro column?
I can understand the rationale for bringing Josh in as OC due to the familiarity but I'm concerned that familiarity breeds contempt and don't trust Josh not to throw Mayo under the bus should things go off the rails which there is a high probability with all the changes that are sure to take place. Josh is obviously very well known to the Krafts and I'd be surprised if there wasn't eventually a power struggle should Josh come back as OC. He seems to crave power outside of when Bill was over him and at one point he was the heir apparent in NE and may still see himself that way.
I'd take a shot with an up and coming passing game coordinator and let him build his own staff. If he leaves in 2yrs it means he did an incredible job turning around this offense and developing a rookie QB and I can live with that as that likely means the team is competitive.
I'd take a shot with an up and coming passing game coordinator and let him build his own staff. If he leaves in 2yrs it means he did an incredible job turning around this offense and developing a rookie QB and I can live with that as that likely means the team is competitive.
main thing I remember from those games is that he had bunch of extra sets and plays for more mobile QBs, so that is evidence of adaptability to a different QB skill set.
always seemed like the WRs had the most difficulty remembering the decision trees in the McDaniels offense.
I'm friendly with two former offensive players that raved about Josh on a personal level when they were on the Pats. (anecdote, of course)
I know there were some rumors that Bill O'Brien could take a college coaching job. But NCAA hiring season is in full swing, and I've not yet heard any rumors about BoB interviewing or even being considered for a job at this stage. Realize that could still change over the next week or two, but it does seem that BoB has the inside track on staying on if he desires. At this point, the possibilities for leaving would be for a head coaching job elsewhere in the NFL, or following Belichick, although I think McDaniels would be BB's first choice.
I know the bolded has been noted before. However, if that were the case, we would see some of those WR's that struggled here have success elsewhere, and that has never really been the case. The receivers that were bad here were either bad elsewhere (Harry), injured, or washed (Galloway, #85).
If true it's really bizarre he's failed so badly on this when he's been HC. I guess everyone gets promoted to the level of their incompetence, but he's been soooo bad it's shocking. I'm less surprised by Patricia and Judge, for instance, who have always come across as assholes.
I think Josh in Atlanta with BB could be really successful.
Josh seemed to be really shellshocked at the end of his disastrous Raiders tenure. It would not surprise me if he stays out of the game for a while.
It might be anecdotal but when it comes from the inside it carries some weight. I still think he will follow BB, but I'll just chaulk it up to the Peter principle and not be as concerned if he eventually returns to the Patriots as the OC.
My guess on Josh McDaniels is that he's great when he's an OC and there is a HC above him, but when he's the HC he struggles to get buy-in and so he defaults to "what would Bill do?" but he's not Bill. Also think he kind of walked into a timebomb in LV. Owner wanted an overhaul, players thought the interim guy got screwed, Josh was seen as a "Bellichick tree failure" and he could never really get a program in place that worked.
Eddie Royal lives in my neighborhood. He despises McD from his time in Denver. First time I met him, soon as he heard I was originally from Mass he took the opportunity to tell a complete stranger how much he hates Josh.
Josh can do whatever he wants given he's still got another $40 million coming to him. As others have said, wouldn't surprise me if he just took it easy for a bit.
I went with young coordinator. I think JMD isn't the worst choice, but he would be my second option. I get the sense that he and Brady worked well together and having worked together so long, had a good rapport and JMD has had issues replicating that relationship with other QBs. My understanding is that JMD's stuff can get incredibly complex and overly reliant on the QB - for example, the QB calling the protections when most other teams have the center do that. That's fine when you have the GOAT, but for other QBs it seems to add complexity without as much payoff.
After voting young OC, I'm surprised nobody took HurstSoGood up on this inquiry. I think he did an excellent job in SEA, where the wideouts were great and everything else was suspect. His work with Geno Smith was truly impressive. And he's got New England roots - he has 2 SB rings from the '03 and '04 seasons when he was...an intern. He topped out as TE coach in 2009 here, and has slowly advanced alongside some solid offenses. I'd love to see him back home.
Shane Waldron would be a pretty good get, especially if he brought Andy Dickerson with him.
As far as realistic external options go, he makes the most sense. But I suspect it will be O’Brien again
As far as realistic external options go, he makes the most sense. But I suspect it will be O’Brien again
Eddie Royal had his career year as a rookie in 2008, catching 91 passes for 980 yards.
Josh came aboard in 2009 and Royal's production crashed to 37 catches. He also fell behind Jabar Gaffney on the depth chart.
Anyway, Josh came in and demoted him after a promising rookie year. No shock to me that he despises him!
Just concerns that he wanted to be NE HC badly enough to rescind the IND job. As someone with a lot more experience than Mayo I could see him trying to position himself for the HC job again. I doubt his dreams of being a successful HC are over at this point.
The Athletic has this to say about Waldron (not that much more, but he's on the radar):
Waldron is from the West Coast but has plenty of New England ties after studying at Phillips Academy (in Andover, Mass.) before playing college football at Tufts. He began his NFL coaching career with the Patriots in 2008, initially working as a quality control coach before coaching tight ends in 2009. He spent five years working under McVay, following him from Washington to Los Angeles and working his way up to passing-game coordinator in 2020. He then went to work as the Seattle Seahawks’ offensive coordinator, where he helped deliver a major bounce-back season from quarterback Geno Smith. But with Pete Carroll out of his job, Waldron’s status is up in the air.
https://theathletic.com/5204164/2024/01/16/patriots-offensive-coordinator-candidates-jerod-mayo/
So word on the college football street is that Bill O'Brien is headed to Ohio State as their OC.
If true, significantly increases chances of a totally new to NEP OC (could still be Josh McDaniels obviously)
If true, significantly increases chances of a totally new to NEP OC (could still be Josh McDaniels obviously)
I really would not be upset about this. In addition to the point about outside voices, I really don't think Mayo needs guys on his staff with big egos who have been (and probably still think they should be) head coaches. I actually put Josh in a different category. He's so burnt he has to rebuild things. He has an incentive to be a good staffer for a few years. But I would rather see Waldron, Robinson, or one of the position coaches on a successful offensive staff get a chance. (Is Jerrod Johnson, QB coach in Houston, on anyone's radar?)
When the head coach is first time, there could be value in having a coordinator with lots of experience coordinating.
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Troy Brown or Wes Welker possibilities?
(Want someone more experienced but just throwing it out there)
(Want someone more experienced but just throwing it out there)
I think Troy Brown is more likely to be unemployed than OC, if he hadn't played here not sure he survived the last couple years.
Welker... I guess, but have to think they'd want a guy with not only more experience, but particularly QB coach experience.
Tyreek Hill endorses Wes Welker (and im not saying that sarcastically)
View: https://twitter.com/cheetah/status/1745830101332222278?s=46
Just happy to hear that Wes isn't suffering the after effects of way too many concussions. That guy got blown up a few too many times.
The one downside of Mayo's experience is that it is completely Pats-centric, so he hasn't had opportunities to work with many other guys in the league. Hopefully the league rumor mill plus seeing guys at the combine, socially, etc., is enough to give you a sense of guys who you think you be good coaches who you might work well with. A guy like Mike Shanahan had coached with a lot of different guys by the time he became a HC. Same with Matt LaFleur.
The first guy I always think about in this context is Troy Aikman. The fact that he can still be a solid color commentator after the beating his brain took is remarkable.
Aikman has talked about that quite a bit, including how the commentating forces him to stay sharp. Coaching drudgery probably not quite the same, but demanding nonetheless.
Didn't Aikman reveal that he went through some really difficult times after retiring from the NFL due to the multiple concussions he endured?
I believe so. His agent, Leigh Steinberg, also tells a horrifying story about visiting Troy in the hospital after one of his concussions and Troy asking him the same question over and over.
If you're looking for Shanahan / McVay tree guys with a bit more experience than Zac Robinson or Wes Welker, maybe you could pry away Wes Phillips (MN) or Adam Stenavich (GB)? Technically lateral hires, but presumably O'Connell and LaFleur are handling offensive play calling duties.
I wonder if they think that Keenan McCardell or Shawn Jefferson is worth a second look. Each was interviewed last year before BoB returned.
I can certainly understand the desire to clean house, but I'm a little bit concerned - in this particular situation - that might be asking a lot of Mayo. He's only 37 years old, he hasn't been around the league a ton or know a lot of different coaches. People criticize the "friends of Bill" approach to building a staff, but there's actually a good bit of value in knowing lots of different people through the years and having a good understanding of working with people whether you'd have a good relationship. Mayo just doesn't have that experience. Of course he can interview people, but interviewing people cold is a pretty lousy way of evaluating candidates for anything. It's the best option available in most cases, but it's still a pretty lousy way of evaluating folks. Personally, I think I'd be a bit more comfortable with keeping a good deal of the current staff, and then make some more changes in a year if things don't work out. Obviously, if there are people on the staff that Mayo already knows aren't going to work out - make those changes - but I wouldn't change things for the sake of change. Mayo's got a lot on his plate.
Not sure Brown is on the list. His WR work has apparently been underwhelming. Wonder if he could pop over to ST.
I'm not too sad to see BOB go. I was 100% in favor of the hire last year, but it did not work out and he seemed to escape a lot of the blame for this past season (it was some combination of Bill, the offense and Mac, but never BOB). He is a good coordinator, but I would like to see this team go in a different, fresher direction.