Offseason rumors

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Max Power

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Getting Edward Cabrera would have to be a 100% scouting decision. From the numbers I don't see anything to differentiate him from Houck. Cabrera doesn't last long in games not just because he can't throw strikes, but because he gets completely hammered the third time through the order. He's given up over a 1.000 OPS in his career, which is even worse than Houck.
 

CR67dream

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If Cabrera was available for Turner last season and SP scarce…. Why hasn’t Cabrera been moved this offseason?

I would think Miami could receive more than half a season of Turner. Just seems so odd.

With eggs in the B&B basket, I would move Rafaela in a heartbeat for a cost controlled SP that has the tools and hope the lab helps him throw strikes.
That's a fair question and why I qualified it with if the reports are true, but Speir is one of the most careful and thorough guys out there, so I just tend to think that there was at least something there. Also, see flymrfreakjar's post above.

As to your last sentence, I wouldn't hate it if it happened, but I am a bit more skeptical than you that it's a slam dunk. Really easy to lose that trade badly IMO.

Edit: And Max hits on why his value may not be sky high as well, and he's right that he only comes here at that price if B&B think pretty strongly that they can fix him.
 

simplicio

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And listen you aren’t going to get a sure fire starter with control without giving up your top end prospects.

This is the exact type of trade that happens in the MLB. It’s two guys with huge ceilings but with current fatal flaws. Cabrera can’t throw strikes and Rafaela can’t control the zone.

If either team can mitigate those flaws they have a potential all star. For the Red Sox, if they aren’t going to go after top end Free Agents or trade top prospects, they’ll need to find upside arms where they can unlock potential output. Cabrera is the type of arm they should be targeting.

It just seems like a deal that makes sense for both parties.
If you think Cabrera is more fixable than Rafaela then sure, make that trade. But isn't a Rafaela who can hit a way more valuable piece than a Cabrera who can throw strikes?
 

moondog80

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If you think Cabrera is more fixable than Rafaela then sure, make that trade. But isn't a Rafaela who can hit a way more valuable piece than a Cabrera who can throw strikes?
They would both be really, really valuable.

I don't know how fixable Cabrera is. But I think there's a lot of data showing a very low success rate in MLB for guys with Rafaella's chase and low walk rates.
 

jbupstate

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Because Miami was in the middle of a playoff race (they made the WC) and desperately needed offense. My post being short is not meant to be snarky and hope it doesn't come across as such, but the situations (for Miami) aren't at all similar (as in where things are this minute and where they were at the deadline of last year).
Understood that at that point in time it made some sense. Just never passed the smell test for me… opinion not statement. Why on earth would Bloom not make that trade? Because Turner was a leader the team needed? Turner offered something for 2024? Turner wasn’t really an asset you build around…

And now the Marlins want to hold on to Cabrera when they could score a much better player this offseason? I haven’t really seen any rumors on Cabrera.

Edit… apologies. All replies to original post did not load.
 

nvalvo

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Yeah, it seems logical for sure.

What I can't help but think, though, is that if the reports that Cabrera could have been had for Turner last year have any truth to them at all, what a terrible, terrible miss. I mean, I was pretty agnostic with Bloom, he did some things very well, but you just can't pass on a move like that and then crater.

Enjoy St. Louis, Chaim.
You acknowledge this in your post, but I often wonder in these leaked/rumored "trades that could have happened" if we actually have the whole trade.

A few of these seem so obviously favorable that I strongly suspect they were not actually on the table in the form they've reached us. I suspect it was Turner + *something* for Cabrera, and if so, the identity of that something is pretty important to evaluating how big a miss it was.

edited to acknowledge that I'm a bit late to the convo and to add: if one of us had proposed Turner for Cabrera in June, the board would have ridiculed them for posting fake internet trades.
 

RS2004foreever

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The lack of anything new about FA's is surprising. All there is to do is obsess about vague comments from the front office.
 

8slim

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They have not lost the fanbase,
A vociferous minority are disgruntled. But lost?
That’s fair, literally speaking. Although we disagree on “minority”. I suspect we’re at a low ebb in terms of fan interest in the Sox. Likely the lowest level since pre-2003.

My broader point was that it’d make no sense for the FO to piss off *any* segment of the fan base to conduct some kind of public negotiation with Boras via inflammatory comments in a press conference.
 

LogansDad

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That’s fair, literally speaking. Although we disagree on “minority”. I suspect we’re at a low ebb in terms of fan interest in the Sox. Likely the lowest level since pre-2003.

My broader point was that it’d make no sense for the FO to piss off *any* segment of the fan base to conduct some kind of public negotiation with Boras via inflammatory comments in a press conference.
I agree with you on your broader point. I do think that Breslow, specifically, has acquitted himself well when answering questions (especially actual baseball questions), but the rest of the FO that has been facing the media is just... not very good at it, and the Boston media is nothing if not exceptional at taking advantage of that.

It's part of why I simply try not to pay a lot of attention to quotes and stories, especially recently. Everything that is written right now is more opinion than news, and most of it is inflammatory and angry these days. I don't have enough time or energy to get upset about people being upset.
 

Hee Sox Choi

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Re: Edward Cabrera — Last season, Kim Ng was the GM but has now been replaced by Peter Bendix who came over from the Rays. Cabrera’s stuff is some of the nastiest stuff in the majors (obviously control is the issue).
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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The lack of anything new about FA's is surprising. All there is to do is obsess about vague comments from the front office.
I think it's kind of a function of the fact that one agent seems to have a monopoly on the pieces that need to fall to get the dominos tumbling. And that agent has positioned himself so that he's usually correct that waiting is the best play. It is what it is.

The way things are developing, it also seems especially difficult for clubs that he has the two most significant FA pitchers, because it makes it impossible for teams to play them off each other. If another agent had one of the pitchers, I bet deals would have happened by now. Whether it serves the two pitchers best to have one guy that has them both is an interesting question. I'm sure that to the extent that conflicts are a thing for agents, they have waived them and that's likely a smart move. Still, he's the cards and he plays them close and does not fold early. Just kind of strange the way the off season played out.
 

brandonchristensen

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I think the biggest issue with contracts in baseball is that EVERYONE thinks they need a 5+ year deal. I understand it for players like Shohei, for players like Soto, Harper, etc. that you want around for the duration of their career.

But then there's a tier below that I believe people like Montgomery are in. I don't want the Sox to have him in 2030 eating up 10% of the budget.

It would be so much better if 3-4 year deals were still a thing. In a sport like Baseball where productivity is typically pre-30...it is hard to want your team to lock down a long term starter on the wrong side of 30 with no idea how it'll go.
 

CR67dream

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I think it's more likely we see Paxton or the like and a Duvall or the like if they do creep closer to last year's spending. Montgomery signing here now just seems very unlikely, which is my first real disappointment of the off season with a realistic target. That said I'll have to see what he ultimately signs for, and with whom, and for how long to know just how disappointed to be.
 

jbupstate

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I think it's more likely we see Paxton or the like and a Duvall or the like if they do creep closer to last year's spending. Montgomery signing here now just seems very unlikely, which is my first real disappointment of the off season with a realistic target. That said I'll have to see what he ultimately signs for, and with whom, and for how long to know just how disappointed to be.
I also believe Montgomery was realistic as far as fit and potential cost. But the Rangers stuff seems to make it less so. Nobody considered Nola a real option. But does anyone think Nola would have already signed if he was represented by Boras? Boras would have held out to squeeze more out of Philadelphia… at least tied.

If JM signs with Texas, I can’t be disappointed with the Sox. The Yankees and I’ll puke.
 

chrisfont9

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I think it's kind of a function of the fact that one agent seems to have a monopoly on the pieces that need to fall to get the dominos tumbling. And that agent has positioned himself so that he's usually correct that waiting is the best play. It is what it is.

The way things are developing, it also seems especially difficult for clubs that he has the two most significant FA pitchers, because it makes it impossible for teams to play them off each other. If another agent had one of the pitchers, I bet deals would have happened by now. Whether it serves the two pitchers best to have one guy that has them both is an interesting question. I'm sure that to the extent that conflicts are a thing for agents, they have waived them and that's likely a smart move. Still, he's the cards and he plays them close and does not fold early. Just kind of strange the way the off season played out.
I do hope that a bunch of teams blow off his clients specifically to prevent this garbage from happening every year. Sure, Boras has some fancy names in his rolodex, but there are lots of people who can throw a baseball (for a lot less money, and with a lot less mileage on their arms), and playing on Boras' terms will just keep worsening a team's chances of paying a reasonable rate for players. Just tell him, on Feb 1, we are out.

Adding, I don't usually root for collusion, but we aren't talking about fair pay across the board, we are mostly talking about whether agents can widen the already massive pay gap between arb/pre-arb guys and popular veteran guys. Personally I think the new NBA CBA is going to get really ugly for all but the top 30 players. Baseball isn't quite as extreme, but this winter's FA contracts are trending into absurdity, relative to the LT thresholds and overall game finances.
 
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Cellar-Door

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I do hope that a bunch of teams blow off his clients specifically to prevent this garbage from happening every year. Sure, Boras has some fancy names in his rolodex, but there are lots of people who can throw a baseball (for a lot less money, and with a lot less mileage on their arms), and playing on Boras' terms will just keep worsening a team's chances of paying a reasonable rate for players. Just tell him, on Feb 1, we are out.

Adding, I don't usually root for collusion, but we aren't talking about fair pay across the board, we are mostly talking about whether agents can widen the already massive pay gap between arb/pre-arb guys and popular veteran guys. Personally I think the new NBA CBA is going to get really ugly for all but the top 30 players. Baseball isn't quite as extreme, but this winter's FA contracts are trending into absurdity, relative to the LT thresholds and overall game finances.
So your argument is that by doing his job well and getting players justly compensated he's the bad guy because owners are cheap and will use that as an excuse not to pay other guys what they are worth? Seems to me Boras is decidedly not the problem in that equation. If you own a baseball team and can't afford it, sell it for a massive profit to someone who will pay the players what they are worth in the free market.
 

sezwho

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I guess here's my question. If Montgomery to Texas were such a sure thing, why hasn't it happened yet?
Here’s another one: why should it have?

Seriously though, false glibness aside :), the price can’t be going down right? In spite of @chrisfont9’s well intentioned collusion.
 

YTF

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RS2004foreever

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MLB trade rumors has a run down of Boras signings - and he is more than willing to wait. But as I went through the list the contracts signed in February were almost always what MLB trade rumors had predicted.
Make of that what you will - this waiting is kind of boring.
 

chrisfont9

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So your argument is that by doing his job well and getting players justly compensated he's the bad guy because owners are cheap and will use that as an excuse not to pay other guys what they are worth? Seems to me Boras is decidedly not the problem in that equation. If you own a baseball team and can't afford it, sell it for a massive profit to someone who will pay the players what they are worth in the free market.
Ah, no, that’s not what I’m saying at all. I am saying that Boras’ tactics are bad for GMs planning their rosters, questionable for his clients -- tbd -- and the only clear winner is Boras, assuming he likes getting attention (which is a 20-year pattern or so). If you want to have an entirely separate conversation about how owners are cheap, that's your right. But my point was about how the market works, how one guy doesn't get to manipulate it if the other participants don't let him, and how it's not a market worth rooting for, IMO, if it has a soft cap and the implications of the massive overpays are that it DOES come out of a bunch of other guys' pockets. Maybe you're saying you wish there wasn't a cap or teams should blow past it, but that's for another CBA and not how you can reasonably expect teams to act right now.
 

chrisfont9

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MLB trade rumors has a run down of Boras signings - and he is more than willing to wait. But as I went through the list the contracts signed in February were almost always what MLB trade rumors had predicted.
Make of that what you will - this waiting is kind of boring.
I really really don't get why he thinks he wins by this. There aren't a million buyers and the time element is AGAINST his clients, not for it. Teams don't have to pay his guy, but his guy absolutely needs a team, by mid February. The whole "Boras genius" thing has long struck me as really silly media bullshit. He has great clients, that's why they get paid. I guess he's a good recruiter or they are gullible enough to buy into his myth. But a bunch of binders and "I'm different!!" stuff doesn't feel like it should fool any decent GM nowadays.
 

CR67dream

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Do the Dodgers have like a 60-man roster?
No shit, right? I mean, everybody loves a winner, but holy hell they are relentless. Well the # 1 song of the off season couldn't be clearer.

Seriously though, it's Heyman, so who knows, but I've really been bullish on bringing him back, so not a welcome
report here for me. But the Dodgers? The Dodgers? This off season is beyond bananas.
 

LogansDad

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Checks Google: Oh, look. James Paxton's agent is Scott Boras.

Boras' mouthpiece strikes again. The Tweet doesn't even say they have made an offer, just that they are thinking about working on a deal for him.

The Red Sox are thinking the same thing. Probably the Twins, too. Maybe even Miami.

Heyman is a borderline "only link his confirmed news, with sources, and nothing else that he posts or says" candidate.

This entire offseason is stupid.


And now I look like an idiot, but everything I said about Heyman is still true.
 

TimScribble

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JCizzle

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Checks Google: Oh, look. James Paxton's agent is Scott Boras.

Boras' mouthpiece strikes again. The Tweet doesn't even say they have made an offer, just that they are thinking about working on a deal for him.

The Red Sox are thinking the same thing. Probably the Twins, too. Maybe even Miami.

Heyman is a borderline "only link his confirmed news, with sources, and nothing else that he posts or says" candidate.

This entire offseason is stupid.


And now I look like an idiot, but everything I said about Heyman is still true.
You can keep the “entire offseason is stupid” part too. :redwine::drunk:
 

CR67dream

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Well I don't think I would have paid the premium it would have taken to pry him back here, so there's that, but man, the fucking Dodgers. They give no fucks. I hope they flame out by July.

Sorry, Dave....
 

CR67dream

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I mean, how much do you guys think he's actually worth? I don't believe there's a reasonable figure that would have trumped this great landing spot for him. I mean, look at the two situations, where would you want to go? It's pretty unreasonable to put this one on the Sox IMO. He's not a difference maker or anything close to it, and a questionable investment at best. It's not a sin to not go the extra mile for this type of player.

A lot of the board saw him as a fungible addition that would be good depth, and many didn't even want him back. Now we're pissed that we didn't pay a premium? Yeah, I'll save my outrage.
 

johnlos

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I mean, how much do you guys think he's actually worth? I don't believe there's a reasonable figure that would have trumped this great landing spot for him. I mean, look at the two situations, where would you want to go? It's pretty unreasonable to put this one on the Sox IMO. He's not a difference maker or anything close to it, and a questionable investment at best. It's not a sin to not go the extra mile for this type of player.

A lot of the board saw him as a fungible addition that would be good depth, and many didn't even want him back. Now we're pissed that we didn't pay a premium? Yeah, I'll save my outrage.
He had 1.0 fWAR last year—by definition, a difference maker—despite falling apart down the stretch. Velocity was there just seemed to lose his command in last month. Was definitely an upside signing (or else the LAD wouldn’t have done it).

Honestly you’ve been posting a lot lately man and I dunno where your fount of positivity comes from. Duvall and Junis aren’t going to get us out of 5th place again in the ALE.
 
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beautokyo

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I guess my dream of T Bauer isn't going to come true......I would think he could be had for a reasonable price. I know, I know a lot of your guys don't want him here but......there seems to be a lot of players that don't want to be in Boston at the moment.
 
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