We don't need to spend on 3b/1b/DH but you think Soler is the obvious fit now? How do you reconcile that?
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Ok on Turner. Soler would be a better DH and Turners ‘special sauce’ as position player is a red herring: if he plays a position he gets hurt.
If keeping a seat warm in the rotation for Houck et al is a priority, then I can’t see them starting an OF asset in AAA.
Has to be some kind of shoe to drop.
Not to relitigate the past, but what was the point in replacing Bloom if you're not going to let the next guy make any real moves? Could they not have fired him after this season and gotten a Breslow type next fall?
It’s been discussed on the (edit - Original reference was to Baseball America, but it was either Fenway Rundown or Boston Baseball @Auger34, my apologies. Still can't find the specific pod but I think it was the Zack Scott interview) podcast that there was expectation among Bloom’s FO (can’t find episode) that this season was going to be an escalation in spending after the reset.
Changing management would mask that expectation reset and avoid conflict and confusion with existing FO planning. For the record, Bloom had to go because of how he executed the plan and not the plan itself and I’m glad Breslow is here, so no angle for me.
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The bolded makes sense. I'm happy with Breslow being here, but I wasn't as down on Bloom as most.
It could be that they didn’t like how Bloom was evaluating talent and managing the rebuild, so they made a change. Now they are hoping that they have the right guy in Breslow. That doesn’t mean that they’re going to hand him a blank check. They’ve obviously set a budget, and don’t want to add any more payroll, so Breslow’s job is to figure out a way to build a team with what he has. The best path to that is to make the pitching that is already in the organization better through coaching. Is it going to work? Probably not. But that’s where we are at currently it seems.
Can you explain more about the BA pod? Was it in line with the Gammons tweet (that everyone thought the budget was going up but that FSG unexpectedly lost money so that plan had to change)?
Because they didn't think that Bloom was the right guy to implement the strategy.
Sure, Kennedy might have said that it was because of regular season wins and losses, but it's pretty clear that they liked the strategy (building from the farm, somewhat cheaply) but didn't think Bloom was the right guy to do it any more.
When you see the way he mishandled (my opinion) the 2022 deadline, and the 2023 deadline and look at his development system accounting for basically no starting pitching in 4 seasons (excepting Pivetta) I get it.
Again, I don't think that I necessarily like their strategy right now as it pertains to doing nothing to bolster the top half of the rotation, but that is why you get rid of Bloom, if you just don't think he's good at the job.
I wish I could recall more detail, and I’ll try for episode, but it was essentially that: there was expectation from RS FO members during the end of the Bloom run that this year was going to be a more of a push. It wasn’t coupled to the gammo tweet (maybe predated? Im sorry I’ll google more later) as far as I recall, but ultimately it would seem to be validation (of my personal recollection that I can’t quote
)I think this has come up other places, and since Gammo tweet, so maybe I can find a more current reference.
I loooooove Dalbec, and even I don't understand not matching that Turner deal. It's only 13M and you know he loves it here and can handle it here. If it's Soler someone like that taking Dalbec's AB's, I will be very disappointed. If they're playing the kids (in terms of $ and not much experience, yes Dalbec isn't a spring chicken) then I am fine with it. But don't bring an overpaid veteran now. I don't see how they can finish top 4 in the division unless TB finally feels the Cinderella effect. The other teams in the ALE are just better
I mean we don’t need a DH bat who necessarily backs up 1B/3B. We just need another bat.
Besides Soler or a trade for Bell, probably one of the bigger upgrades the Sox could make now would be replacing one of the catchers (probably McGuire) with Gary Sánchez. He ranks as a solid defensive catcher the last couple years, and I’m sure he’s still got a first base glove somewhere too.
For a late bloomer, Turner has done quite well for himself. I think this brings him to about $135M in career earnings. Not sure why we weren’t interested outside of the obvious money concerns. He’s very consistent and can be flipped, if things go poorly.
Looking deep, I see that Valdez has played some 3B in the minors. Not well, but he has played there before.
Just in general, but there really isn't anyone at 3B in Worcester that we haven't already discussed. At this point RH/FA/3B is down to Evan Longoria, Giovanny Urshela, and a bunch of guys worse than that. Or Matt Chapman who would be the starter there.
Just in general, but there really isn't anyone at 3B in Worcester that we haven't already discussed. At this point RH/FA/3B is down to Evan Longoria, Giovanny Urshela, and a bunch of guys worse than that. Or Matt Chapman who would be the starter there.
With regard to Boston matching, would Turner have taken the same deal with the Red Sox? Are we sure they didn't offer it?
It seems like Boston is in a tough position going in to an apparent reset/rebuild kind of season. If a veteran is willing to take a short deal, that situation may not be so appealing if they have the option of going to a team with a better chance of winning or at least making the postseason.
I also l think cities like Boston and NYC are miserable places to play if you're losing. Angry fans with high expectations + rabid local media can be a difficult environment to play in. Signing up for a year of that when you probably won't be around long enough to enjoy the results of a rebuild could be a tough sell if better situations for similar pay are available.
It seems like Boston is in a tough position going in to an apparent reset/rebuild kind of season. If a veteran is willing to take a short deal, that situation may not be so appealing if they have the option of going to a team with a better chance of winning or at least making the postseason.
I also l think cities like Boston and NYC are miserable places to play if you're losing. Angry fans with high expectations + rabid local media can be a difficult environment to play in. Signing up for a year of that when you probably won't be around long enough to enjoy the results of a rebuild could be a tough sell if better situations for similar pay are available.
At this point I just hope they aren’t done by Memorial Day. Hopefully a long summer of empty seats wakes them up next winter.
I’m concerned whatever financial ails they are having supersede attendance cratering; because they know it will and are still not spending.
I’m concerned whatever financial ails they are having supersede attendance cratering; because they know it will and are still not spending.
Aside from being younger and a better hitter, Soler fits this team much better than Turner.
Turner would be a back up, limited short side corner/DH platoon, with no legit claim to ABs vs RHPers.
Soler replaces Refsnyder, and leaves the team with 5 guys (along with Abreu, ONeill, Duran and Yoshida) to cover 4 spots (3 OF spots and DH), which seems about right and provides needed depth in the event of injury/ineptitude of one or more of this group.
He also provides needed right handed OBP SLG upside between Casas and Devers. I would rather sign Soler than Montgomery at this stage.
That said, I am past the point of expecting that the Sox will do anything more this offseason.
Turner would be a back up, limited short side corner/DH platoon, with no legit claim to ABs vs RHPers.
Soler replaces Refsnyder, and leaves the team with 5 guys (along with Abreu, ONeill, Duran and Yoshida) to cover 4 spots (3 OF spots and DH), which seems about right and provides needed depth in the event of injury/ineptitude of one or more of this group.
He also provides needed right handed OBP SLG upside between Casas and Devers. I would rather sign Soler than Montgomery at this stage.
That said, I am past the point of expecting that the Sox will do anything more this offseason.
Blaze Jordan 1B/3B RH bat - If we really have need, how much would we object to having him come up a year early...
Let me preface this post by saying that I do want the Sox to add payroll in the form of a good SP and RH bat. I looked into this to see if I could understand why the FO thought that Turner wasn't a good option for them.
These are the positions that Turner played last season. As you can see he was used as a DH for the majority of the games. His September at the plate was not good. That was from wearing out and/or lingering injuries. If they are looking at similar usage for his roster spot in 2024 they already have DH covered and good positional flexibility with the current roster/callups. Of course, that all goes out the window if Casas is on the IL for a significant period of time and they are forced to use a combination of Dalbec and Refsnyder at 1B. And if the kids don't hit. Pretty big gambles by the FO. And they definitely need another RH bat. Maybe this is where Soler or Duvall comes into play.
Out of the 41 games he played at 1B he came in to finish the game at 1B six times. From June on, when Casas started turning into a force at the plate, Turner had 16 complete games at 1B. Five of those were in September after Casas was injured. He started another six games and either moved to another position or was pinch hit for.
All stats and charts are from Baseball-Reference
These are the positions that Turner played last season. As you can see he was used as a DH for the majority of the games. His September at the plate was not good. That was from wearing out and/or lingering injuries. If they are looking at similar usage for his roster spot in 2024 they already have DH covered and good positional flexibility with the current roster/callups. Of course, that all goes out the window if Casas is on the IL for a significant period of time and they are forced to use a combination of Dalbec and Refsnyder at 1B. And if the kids don't hit. Pretty big gambles by the FO. And they definitely need another RH bat. Maybe this is where Soler or Duvall comes into play.
Out of the 41 games he played at 1B he came in to finish the game at 1B six times. From June on, when Casas started turning into a force at the plate, Turner had 16 complete games at 1B. Five of those were in September after Casas was injured. He started another six games and either moved to another position or was pinch hit for.
All stats and charts are from Baseball-Reference
Pablo Reyes seems like a forgotten man around here, but he has played every position on the diamond except catcher in his major league career. He's more than capable of backing up Devers at 3B.
He's 20 years old and spent less than a half season at AA where he had a OBP/SLG/OPS of .296/.402/.698. He's nowhere near ready right now. He's potentially a mid-season callup next year.
All this is correct, but Turner (and his bride) seemed to enjoy Boston quite a lot despite a last-place finish. Maybe, in the twilight of his career, they just want to experience another great northern metropolis on a baseball club's dime.
In his 741 game major league career he’s got all of 4 innings at 1B over the span of 3 games.
A massive objection. He's not close to being ready right now. Calling someone up that early in their development could ruin their career. It would be organizational malpractice if they used Blaze Jordan as the backup 1B/3B RH bat. An absolutely awful idea
You're correct and ATM I think that the bench starts with him and McGuire. Add one of Abreu, Rafaela, RFsnyder and you've got one spot left to sort out depending on whether or not Breslow adds another piece.
LET THE BOY PLAY IN DOUBLE AA. HE NEEDS TO LEARN AS DALBEC LEARNED.
Honestly though Blaze does want to learn:
Yeah, I am aware. He's a catcher! My broader point is that I don't think we need to use a roster spot on a dedicated back-up first baseman. I'm interested in Sanchez to split time behind the plate and occasionally DH, and if he'd be part of a crew that includes Reyes, Valdez, Refsnyder or whoever else backing up Casas for the 75-100 innings he might need, that sounds fine.
I’m just concerned that this team doesn’t appear to have a ton of offense. They had a 700 OPS on the road last year, and have lost Verdugo and Turner. Feels like we are banking a lot on Yoshida not getting fatigued, Story and O’Neill being healthy and effective, Devers bouncing back a bit, and Casas emerging, etc etc. There’s just not much depth; an injury to Casas or Devers or Story could be catastrophic. Signing Soler to be full time DH would certainly help a lot.
To be fair to the FO, a 39-year-old Turner who can barely play the field and is hovering just above league average offensively doesn't seem like a great use of resources, particularly if the need is "right-handed backup first baseman." He makes sense for a Blue Jays team with zero good internal options at DH, and it's more likely that Turner would rather be with a contender than a likely last-place squad.
If a pure right-handed backup 1B is what Breslow and company are searching for, I wonder if Garrett Cooper is of any interest. He's coming off a down season and is 33, so there's a risk that he may have gone over the cliff, but he should come cheap (he made all of $3.9 million last year in his final arb-eligible season), has tons of 1B experience and can play the OF, too, and he mashes lefties (a .385 wOBA against them last year and a .348 mark in his career). The rest of the FA crop when it comes to right-handed 1B bats is thin; CJ Cron, Luke Voit and Yuli Gurriel are the best of a bad lot.
If a pure right-handed backup 1B is what Breslow and company are searching for, I wonder if Garrett Cooper is of any interest. He's coming off a down season and is 33, so there's a risk that he may have gone over the cliff, but he should come cheap (he made all of $3.9 million last year in his final arb-eligible season), has tons of 1B experience and can play the OF, too, and he mashes lefties (a .385 wOBA against them last year and a .348 mark in his career). The rest of the FA crop when it comes to right-handed 1B bats is thin; CJ Cron, Luke Voit and Yuli Gurriel are the best of a bad lot.
Can't remember the last time you didn't misread something I posted before leaping in to reply.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/offseason-rumors.40691/post-5967000
However, the vast majority of teams start the year with three catchers on the 40-man. As it stands, that third catcher spot is probably Roberto Pérez, who would need to bump someone else off (and likely has an escalator clause in his contract). It may make more sense to have a third catcher capable elsewhere on the roster.
I think people who are labeling Turner as “average” didn’t really watch the games last year.
He put up great at bat after great at bat. He was their best hitter for a huge chunk of the season.
He said as the most productive hitter with RISP.
He was clearly the leader of the team despite it being his first year. Duran called him out by name in helping him.
It’s not a small loss.
Right, he ended up with an OPS of .800 and OPS+ of 114, but the OPS was .845 at the end of August, before injuries did him in in September.
Isn’t money always a compelling reason? Seems clear the Sox just don’t want to spend it.
I mean, injuries are part and parcel of signing Turner; he struggles to stay healthy. If he stays healthy, he's a very good hitter, but that's a huge conditional that we have yet to see happen, and it makes him a hard bet to make if he's not simply going to be the full-time DH (which it doesn't seem like he would have been but the jumbled OF depth chart makes it hard to know what exactly the plan is at that spot).
The Sox signed Pérez to a mL deal that would be worth $1.4 million if he makes the big league roster. I'm not sure if that's by Opening Day or what (it's not in the reporting), but I think he's probably got an opt out / escalator clause if he's not added, like Alfaro (and Tapia and Goodrum) did.
Basically, it helps to have a third catcher on the 40-man to start the year, because if either Wong or McGuire get hurt, you'll need to immediately add one, bumping someone else from the 40-man.
The Sox already tended McGuire a contract. He's probably here unless traded, but $1.5 million isn't a big deal if they choose to cut him. But if they kept him and signed Gary Sanchez to handle DH/C (with few innings at 1B), he'd effectively become their third catcher all year. Then they wouldn't have to make a decision on Pérez by his escalator clause date.
I am disappointed that he is moving on, but I really can't kill the team for letting him do it. I just don't see him improving on his numbers from last year, which were already his worst non-2020 season in almost a decade. I understand the argument that injuries wore him down at the end, but the numbers were high at the end of August in part due to a wildly outlying .986 OPS in June, as well. His EV was down, his hard hit percentage was the second lowest of his career, his ISO has been below .180 for three of the last four years. He's a good player, but if you think this team is a lost cause then he doesn't help much, and if you, like me, think this team is already a borderline Wild Card contender, then he isn't really the difference maker who would get them over the top.
I love the player and would have liked him back on this deal for the Sox, don't get me wrong. But I just can't throw my arms up and say "WHY" on this one (much like basically every other move this offseason).
I love the player and would have liked him back on this deal for the Sox, don't get me wrong. But I just can't throw my arms up and say "WHY" on this one (much like basically every other move this offseason).
RE Blaze Jordan.
He's a fun prospect. A guy who hit absolute tanks as a tween and is very famous for a minor leaguer.
I think he's had a very successful minor league career to his point and is absolutely a guy people should follow because he has some interesting tools.
But the path for him to actually be a major league regular is super narrow. He's a bad body righty first baseman. He has to basically destroy AA and AAA pitching before he profiles as a regular and to this point he's not dominated any level. Without going into the very real developmental hurdles he has to overcome (hitting fastballs with authority, mostly) it's important to remember that this is not a guy who profiles as a regular major leaguer. He's been young for his level at every stop in the minors and held his own (more than held his own at several stops), so he's interesting.
But yeah... he's not the type of prospect you expect to get regular reps in the majors. He's not the type of guy who have as a core piece of a trade.
Everyone should absolutely root for this kid (and every prospect, in general). He has a very unique (albeit limited) skillset that would be a thrill to watch succeed at the major league level... but the odds of that happening are pretty small.
He's a fun prospect. A guy who hit absolute tanks as a tween and is very famous for a minor leaguer.
I think he's had a very successful minor league career to his point and is absolutely a guy people should follow because he has some interesting tools.
But the path for him to actually be a major league regular is super narrow. He's a bad body righty first baseman. He has to basically destroy AA and AAA pitching before he profiles as a regular and to this point he's not dominated any level. Without going into the very real developmental hurdles he has to overcome (hitting fastballs with authority, mostly) it's important to remember that this is not a guy who profiles as a regular major leaguer. He's been young for his level at every stop in the minors and held his own (more than held his own at several stops), so he's interesting.
But yeah... he's not the type of prospect you expect to get regular reps in the majors. He's not the type of guy who have as a core piece of a trade.
Everyone should absolutely root for this kid (and every prospect, in general). He has a very unique (albeit limited) skillset that would be a thrill to watch succeed at the major league level... but the odds of that happening are pretty small.
So you're advocating for three catchers on the 26 man roster with "break glass in case of emergency" flexibility between the three of them?
Editing to add that really hope that we're done with the "stick anyone at first and let them learn on the fly" mentality.
I'm saying Gary Sanchez is an upgrade over McGuire.
I'm also suggesting he's a part-time DH option (though I'd prefer Soler) if we keep McGuire.
If we were to sign him for that, then we wouldn't need to add another guy to the 40-man if Wong or McGuire got hurt.
The Rangers essentially did this plan last year once Mitch Garver got healthy, with Jonah Heim as their primary catcher, some combination of León/Hedges/Huff as their backup and Garver as their DH/C. The Mariners may also do it with Garver this year, with Raleigh and Zavala as their backstops.
I wonder what type of value they could get from moving Wong? Trading Wong in a package for pitching and signing Sanchez could make a lot of sense.
Being completely inconsistent is your consistency, I will give you that. So now you are saying you want to bump McGuire for Sanchez but if not it is ok because you would get Sanchez as RHH DH and the added bonus is you don't need to add a third catcher to the 40 man, which if you bump McGuire, you won't have.
I don't know the real value of having a third catcher on the 40 if you have someone you can just add the 40 in AAA. A third catcher would be pretty disposable and Sanchez doesn't kill lefties (pretty neutral split last year and throughout his career) so he isn't really a killer platoon DH (Dalbec has better career numbers than Sanchez verses lefties and can play 1B)
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