Thoughts/Impressions on “The Dynasty” Apple TV Series
- Thread starter Dewey's 'stache
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The Krafts took it too far with the Hernandez episode. Apology at the end was manufactured and cringey, as was the whole BB enabled him and kept him stuck in Foxboro angle. Not that BB helps himself by still not talking about it. Would be pretty easy to say look I was making football decisions. I don't walk around assuming guys are murderers.
I would have loved to hear more from Deion and Welker and for that matter Gronk and Brady.
I would have loved to hear more from Deion and Welker and for that matter Gronk and Brady.
I loved that clip of Cassel. Laughed out loud. I haven’t seen any of this yet, but if this is the kind of thing being framed to make BB look abusive/incompetent/out of touch, it’s a joke. Exactly who I thought, and often read and heard, he is. If professional players can’t take that kind of hard coaching, I think it says more about them than it does BB. And enough of them obviously could handle it well enough to accomplish what they did under his leadership. I’m still going binge this when they all drop, but this thread has me more and more suspicious of this being Kraft PR/hagiography. His insufferable need for adulation and star fucking seems to be getting worse with age.
Anyone thinking the Cassel clip is a swipe at Bill is looking for something to complain about. Cassel seems like he was enjoying retelling the episode, and has always been complementary of Bill since he was traded.
I agree, was just commenting on it in the context of some of the other comments that have come out about how “brutal” it was to play for Bill, how he badly he allegedly treated Brady, etc.
I'm finding myself turning sharply against this series. It's waaaay too negative. Omitting some of the spectacular streaks, players, games, comebacks, and strategic owning of the NFL is pissing me off. I get it. It's based on a book. Still, this is not what I was hoping for. Focusing on the absolute worst days of the franchise...the SB losses, the TB12 injury, Hernandez (!), etc. It's aggravating me to no end. I'm a bitter Pat's fan this am.
Same. Although we should get some adulation again in the next few episodes, as long as they don't overdo the Malcom/Philly SB. The we'll get some shit sandwiches at the end when Brady leaves.
It's too bad the filmmakers went this way. It's a much better story than is being presented. Maybe Bill will open up to Errol Morris when he turns his lens on him in 2030.
View: https://twitter.com/michaelfhurley/status/1763537130368713017?s=46&t=1S4eWjX_rzBBrpPNddRPAg
They may as well have digitally enhanced a screenshot of, I think it was Clears Cleaver, posting here that Brady looked like he wasn’t good anymore in 2009. Media narrative!
It’s bizarre they’re trying to really sell Cassel’s 2008 performance as a legitimate threat to Brady.
They may as well have digitally enhanced a screenshot of, I think it was Clears Cleaver, posting here that Brady looked like he wasn’t good anymore in 2009. Media narrative!
It’s bizarre they’re trying to really sell Cassel’s 2008 performance as a legitimate threat to Brady.
That's a hell of a catch! And I tend to agree that it's bush league to insinuate that what was written in a freakin BLOG was actually something from the Boston Globe. No need to do that.
I didn't take the Cassel clip to be a slight against BB at all. I thought it was hilarious actually.
I don’t think newspapers have any more integrity than most blogs. I don’t think it’s that big of a deal, it’s just a more cinematic way of showing a headline.
The headline isn’t made up - only the way it was shared.
And as one of the Xitter comments points out, the B-R article was written AFTER Cassel was traded.
I appreciate the wagon circling going on but I don't think any of this diminishes the team's legacy one bit. The stretch between 2005-2013 had a lot of shit in it -- crapping out in 2005, losing a 21-3 halftime lead in 2006 in the AFCCG, Spygate, Scottish game, Brady's injury, the Manningham SB, Hernandez ... that's a long 9-year stretch, almost half the dynasty right there. In that time they cover the FU 2007 team, how Brady gets back to being on top, how Belichick reinvented the team twice, including getting them past having a murderer in the building. If that isn't what it takes to build a dynasty I don't know what is.
I dunno. I don't find it to be that big of a deal - either way it's an opinion piece.
I haven't seen any of the episodes so I'm not 100% sure how it was framed / used. What was the purpose of showing it?
The people who created and produced Dynasty get to tell the story they want to share - not necessarily what *we* want.
Also, this is a series about the franchise during that period which means it has to cover a lot of ground and personalities. Its by definition going to be too light on many subjects given time constraints.
Finally, this is a reality based series meant to appeal to the broadest audience possible. We know this genre of programming uses artistic license to create drama etc. Of course they are using fake media clips etc or finding some rando talk show clip that may not have been heard widely at the time.
That said, I am not a demanding content consumer in that I never got really upset when The Real World (whatever locale) didn't quite keep it real.
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I guess I would ask who the target audience is here. I know they're trying to cast a wide net, but if they made it 20 episodes instead of 10, would they lose viewers?
I watched every episode of the Last Dance docuseries and I would have happily watched double.
Just showing a headline of what someone was thinking at the time to further the narrative being presented. It's definitely not the first time this has happened.
Yeah but all of us are freaks compared to normal sports fans. I'd sign up for episodes in perpetuity.
In all seriousness, most of the planet does NOT root for the Patriots so some of the scandalous stuff is well placed red meat for that group.
My family and friends who fall into that category seem to be enjoying it so even if *we* don't like it, it seems to be finding an audience.
Right, I could watch an episode a week for the rest of my life. I appreciate and acknowledge that there is a balance in terms of how long to make the series. Maybe they've done that research and determined that 10 is the sweet spot.
I’m not a Pats fan but was a Brady and BB fan. I watched the last episodes - since I don’t follow the team much outside of stats and wins except playoff games a lot kf this is somewhat new to me.
I say that to say the Hernandez episode was yellow journalism at its finest
I say that to say the Hernandez episode was yellow journalism at its finest
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Certainly anyone that "blames" Belichick for Aaron Hernandez is generally not someone to be taken seriously.
In reading this thread and listening to Zolak and Beetle on the radio talk specifically about the Hernandez episode, I guess I had higher (or lower?) expectations.
While the one interview that put Bill on the spot was a tough look, the episode as a whole wasn’t as brutal towards him as I thought it would be.
I do wonder if a trade to the west coast would have actually changed things for him, or if it would have simply delayed his ultimate descent.
While the one interview that put Bill on the spot was a tough look, the episode as a whole wasn’t as brutal towards him as I thought it would be.
I do wonder if a trade to the west coast would have actually changed things for him, or if it would have simply delayed his ultimate descent.
Even in #5, Kraft gets in a shot at BB, saying he saw all players, including Brady, as "expendable." There's a decent amount of time spent on Brady Sr. grousing about Bill's alleged treatment of his son as well. Totally gratuitous.
What I learned from episode 5 is that Bill could really coach his ass off. When he told Casel it was his turn it was pretty inspirational. Then when Cassel didn't see the blindside hit his remark was withering. Good and bad Bill.
Yes. Deion was quite good. But overall the episode was about 50% too much Hernandez. When do we see some Super Bowls won?
Even if Brady ended up wanting to stay, its still revisionist history to treat that as no-brainer decision for a team to make. Aside from Brady, the record of QB's post age 41 is Warren Moon going 4-6 for the '98 Seahawks and a bunch of emergency QB appearances by the likes of Vinny T and Steve DeBerg.
Episode 5 was great. Very flattering for Bill.
the newspaper article is such a non-issue IMO.
Watching Ep6 now.
the newspaper article is such a non-issue IMO.
Watching Ep6 now.
Ep6 is good but strange to devote an entire episode to the Aaron Hernandez saga. We already have a documentary covering it.
Totally gratuitous and also just wrong given how much credit Bill has always given to the players. A fair remark would have been "interchangeable" or something like that, or that the team was bigger than any one player, even Brady, which is consistent with Bill's press conference after Brady's diagnosis.
If Kraft thinks he's elevating his reputation through this doc among Pats fans he has definitely miscalculated.
I’m
Yep, that was my primary thought. And the narrative, as I saw it anyway, that only BB knew how messed up, possibly sociopathic, Hernandez was was laughable. I forget if it was Welker or Branch but whoever said "we knew he was messed up, but no one thought he was capable of murder" should have been the takeaway from the Hernandez segment.
The bolded has been thoroughly refuted so many times. Brady and Tebow talked about the issues with Hernandez after a Pats-Denver game, and they were hardly alone. The idea that Bill was supposed to act as his surrogate is asinine.
The episode jogged my memory about Hernandez reportedly having ‘the worst example of brain damage from CTE we’ve ever seen for a player his age’. I double checked and that paraphrase comes from the BU CTE research group who analyzed Hernandez’s brain after his death. So I think while a trade to the west coast may have helped temporarily in getting away from some bad influences, he was very likely doomed by CTE damage to descend into darkness.
Also, in fairness to the organization the impacts of CTE on behavior, decision making etc were not very well known in 2013 and certainly not on such a young player. By that I mean they only had essentially what we all have to judge a person by: his/her behavior. While his at times aggressive and odd behavior was seen, and thus something the team was aware of, the team had no idea Aaron was potentially also having worsening judgment issues due to the increasing decay of his brain that could not be impacted by behavior modification and life coaching
I think this series has been great so far. I mean, to see Hernandez receiving the “now is the time to get your shit together” speech from Chris Carter at the rookie symposium and being engaged enough to ask him a question on how he turned it around was absolutely amazing. It’s fucking heartbreaking watching that when you know how it all ends up.
I don’t know but I can’t get enough of this. And I’m not trying to be condescending or all scolding or something, but I don’t think there’s any possible way to diminish or hurt the Patriot Dynasty and legacy and I think those of you that are watching this and considering that are missing out on an enjoyable ride. The people that hate NE are gonna hate NE regardless of what they see so don’t worry about it. The history has already been written.
Back to AH - I would really have liked to hear Gronk and TB speak to the situation a little. I suspect, though, that they are continuing to heed BB’s words that you move on and never discuss it again. And I never knew about AH asking for a trade like that. Wonder if BB is a little haunted by ignoring that request.
I don’t know but I can’t get enough of this. And I’m not trying to be condescending or all scolding or something, but I don’t think there’s any possible way to diminish or hurt the Patriot Dynasty and legacy and I think those of you that are watching this and considering that are missing out on an enjoyable ride. The people that hate NE are gonna hate NE regardless of what they see so don’t worry about it. The history has already been written.
Back to AH - I would really have liked to hear Gronk and TB speak to the situation a little. I suspect, though, that they are continuing to heed BB’s words that you move on and never discuss it again. And I never knew about AH asking for a trade like that. Wonder if BB is a little haunted by ignoring that request.
I wasn’t a big fan of the Aaron Hernandez episode. It was tacky and unsettling to me. Framing it towards the end that BB is somehow culpable because he refused to trade him to the west coast is just downright nefarious. Part of me wonders how much of this was edited after the Krafts made the decision to move on from BB. This is stuff I’d expect from the Red Sox and Larry Lucchino.
You can’t diagnose CTE in a living person so I don’t think any organization even today knows the impact of CTE on behavior because they can’t tell who does or doesn’t have CTE. Some guys are just crazy.
Disagree entirely with this take.
I think the facts as well as the anecdotes from Lloyd, Welker and everyone else interviewed including those trying to be more delicate in their language about Hernandez all point to Belichick tolerating a lot of terrible behavior.
Neither that nor the salacious trade anecdote Hohler shares (consider the source - we have been down this road before) makes BB culpable in Hernandez' crimes. However BB comes off poorly here as does Kraft. I think its pretty remarkable that Kraft and Adams admit they made a mistake on camera while BB can't get there.
Finally Adams' Seahawks comment at that junction of the episode was clearly a narrative choice but its still pretty interesting. Imo he and Bill have had that conversation.
For the umpteenth time, I haven't watched this yet. But man, from some of the commentary here, from people I trust and respect, this is sounding so much like a Kraft hit piece on Bill. Now he's the culprit in regards to Hernandez? They didn't sign off on the big contract extension for him? And Bill should magically know that a guy with a few sketchy episodes in his past, is a candidate for being a multiple murderer? Honestly, I don't think anyone "failed" when it came to AH. No matter how much vetting is done, nobody really knows anyone. It's always an educated gamble.
Just started watching Episode 1. I find myself bristling at Kraft's words. He talks way too much. He said he loves Drew Bledsoe as if he was a son and seeing him go down against the Jets was sad. No shit. I wonder how he feels about his players getting CTE, crippling debilitating pain and early onset dementia from playing a game he is getting rich on. It just sounds phony. Football was once my favorite sport but now it just feels gross. I'm out.
I mean, watch it before you comment. I watched it and can tell you that Kraft totally owned up to being fooled by AH. There’s a scene where Kraft is literally talking to Belichick pre-murder and Kraft is going on and on about how Hernandez is great and understands how he needs to change etc etc, while Belichick says nothing at all. You don’t have that scene included if you’re trying to pin the whole thing as Belichick fault. Which is a ridiculous take. Kraft owns it and apologizes for it at the end. How does anyone watch the episode and be like “Kraft is hanging this on Belichick”??
Fair enough. I was basing my post on comments here. But you’re right, I should probably STFU until I watch it.
This is coming off as a BB hit piece because he's basically the only one in press conference mode, offering up no substance on anything. If everyone else is being candid and you're guarded, it's not a surprise you'll come off worse.
The trade request regarding Hernandez is not new news at all, this was reported many years ago.