Joe Mazzulla officially named head coach

brendan f

brendan f

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2019
273
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
I would love to see an analysis of Mazzulla's "slow to react" issue and what its actually cost the team. I sense you are arguing that its not cost them yet but will going forward.

This is the problem with the Mazzulla criticism - its an argument that the Celtics are winning inefficiently some times and its hurting their margin of victory - its not that he is actually costing the team wins - unless you think they should have an 80% or 90% winning percentage.
Click to expand...
I mean, clearly it's cost the team almost nothing. They have the best offense in basketball. This is all nitpicking...

but one could argue this either way: the optimist would say the Celtics have blown the doors off of most teams; this proves their offense is great and needs little to no adjustments. The pessimist would say their weakness is against high level teams and coaches especially in close games down the stretch and they've had almost no experience in real game situations with that this year AND this weakness will be exploited at some point in the playoffs, likely the finals (if they get there).

Maybe Joe is out-thinking everyone and is saving his adjustments for the playoffs, but teams that can guard the 5 out like Denver, the Clippers, and OKC worry me a bit, especially in a 7 game series where adjustments are likely going to be necessary.
 
lars10

lars10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
11,874
brendan f said:
I'm not a coach either, but that's part of the point: most of this stuff isn't rocket science. I don't see the point of "saving" strategies for the playoffs (Denver certainly didn't against the C's). Most of the playoffs are reactive: one team tries something, the other team counters. My point is that Joe has traditionally been slow to react. There's reason for that based on the success of the team's offense (they haven't needed to) but he's going to need to do it in the playoffs against a team like Denver that doesn't get easily beat off the dribble.

We also saw Joe's limitations at the end of the Cavs game. Again, he relied on Tatum to initiate the offense and Tatum was going too slow. Instead of giving Tatum a sign to hurry things up (or God forbid run a play), he stood there and watched his best player order a clear out that went nowhere. When Joe finally realized things weren't going well it was too late. He apparently tried calling timeout with 4 seconds left (which, to my knowledge, nobody saw), but by then he had already waited too long.

A lot of people blame Tatum for his poor play against Denver and for his poor execution at the end of the Cavs game, but I think the blame goes to Joe in both cases. If things are going south you can't just wait and wait and hope your players figure things out. You have to employ strategies that counter what the other team is doing.

Now I like Joe and think he's a good coach but he has limitations and those limitations can be exploited by very good teams and very good coaches (Mark Daigneault, for example, is someone I think could give Joe problems in a series).
Click to expand...
As I recall, Joe made a bunch of changes in the 4th against Cleveland

1. Ward shot out of his mind
2. Celts missed a ton of wide open shots
3. Refs called zero fouls in the lane.. several that were egregious
4. He had his best players in

They lost by one.

I’m not sure Joe makes the top five of reasons they lost..
 
brendan f

brendan f

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2019
273
lars10 said:
As I recall, Joe made a bunch of changes in the 4th against Cleveland

1. Ward shot out of his mind
2. Celts missed a ton of wide open shots
3. Refs called zero fouls in the lane.. several that were egregious
4. He had his best players in

They lost by one.

I’m not sure Joe makes the top five of reasons they lost..
Click to expand...
Yeah, maybe I wasn't clear but I'm talking about two potential weaknesses (that may overlap at times, especially in the playoffs).
1) Games against teams who can defend the 5 out
2) Execution down the stretch in close games

The Cavs game fits only the latter category. I was talking specifically about their final possession, which was bad.
 
lovegtm

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,253
Denver wasn't really "defending the 5 out", in the sense of matching up and taking away all possible advantages.

They were blitzing Tatum like crazy, and for whatever reason, he just couldn't handle it. It was a hard thing to adjust to in-game, but I don't think it would hold up well in the context of a series.

OKC and the Clippers are a bit tougher in that regard.
 
Senator Donut

Senator Donut

post-Domer
SoSH Member
Apr 21, 2010
5,529
Adam Himmelsbach retweeted this clop

View: https://twitter.com/ctabatabaie/status/1769370770856112563


My first impression is of course where did that accent go? But also in this clip we learn Mazzulla was a freshman who played on John Beilein’s last WVU team. Beilein successfully used a 1-3-1 press for a team that won the NIT. Apparently Joe Mazzulla was able to convince incoming coach Bob Huggins to keep using the press, since they had the skillset to execute it well. Huggins would adopt that strategy so fully that his teams received the nickname “Press Virginia.”

Basically Joe Mazzulla’s suggestion ignited a late-career renaissance for Huggins and made his name synonymous with a full-court press. Huggins should have been sending Mazzulla royalty checks on “Press Virginia.”
 
bankshot1

bankshot1

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 12, 2003
24,821
where I was last at
Hand down
Mazz down

According to CJM on Zo and Beetle, he was told by an undisclosed power that be: No more post-whistle shut down D.

It seems he ruffled some feathers at the association.
 
bigq

bigq

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,199
joe dokes said:
I suspect the league is more concerned with some macho dickbag player punching Mazzulla in the face.
Click to expand...
I think the league is more interested in protecting the on court talent. If Mazzulla got into the landing space and a player got injured that would be a very bad look.
 
Auger34

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,684
bigq said:
I think the league is more interested in protecting the on court talent. If Mazzulla got into the landing space and a player got injured that would be a very bad look.
Click to expand...
yeah exactly. No one in the nba fights, that’s the last thing on their mind
 
wade boggs chicken dinner

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,820
Cornbread with an interesting JMazz story on the First to the Floor podcast. The story goes like this

"I was talking to Joe Mazzulla the other day. Joe was walking around the court at the Garden before the game and he has these Rosary beads that he has in his hand and he walks around (uh) before the game and I was the only one in there.​
​
He stops in front of me and says, 'Max which which one of those banners are yours?' I said 1981 and 1984. He said and you were the finals MVP in 1981 - he said 'you know I would do anything - anything - to bring another banner" and literally he had tears in his eyes man.​
​
I said you're gonna get there big fella you're gonna get there."​
​
Cornbread then said that he thinks if they can get by the pressure of winning one, they can win multiple times, given their age and the roster.

One thing we can all agree - JMazz really wants to win it all.

Story starts at 16:06 mark of the below.

View: https://youtu.be/pM_HO-agf7w?list=PLtT3LNlJZP0vnvZyGDnfD6k3Q7tSN-glw&t=964
 
TripleOT

TripleOT

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2007
7,783
Late to this thread.

As a RIer who played in leagues with Joe’s father, I was so proud of Joe’s run to the Final Four at WVU, and watched his great performance bodying up Boogie Cousins as they vanquished Kentucky. I had no idea he actually taught the defense that Bob Huggins successfully deployed. Udoka and Huggs have something else in common besides questionable character.

Not surprised about Joe’s encounter with Max. Boston is our home team, and for a local kid to help hoist a banner, that must be the ultimate for a Celtics fan. Mazzulla has the makeup to handle the pressure of being a favorite for the championship.
 
lovegtm

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,253
"What if I played a closing lineup with Payton Pritchard as the only shot creator and Sam Hauser as the only other shooter against a team fighting for its playoff life?"
 
bigq

bigq

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,199
lovegtm said:
"What if I played a closing lineup with Payton Pritchard as the only shot creator and Sam Hauser as the only other shooter against a team fighting for its playoff life?"
Click to expand...
That’s one way to make an otherwise meaningless late season game interesting. I loved it. I don’t bet on games but I think it is unlikely that Sam Hauser goes 1-13 on a crap ton of open looks from three again.

And as an added bonus the Celtics win keeps @Sam Ray Not on the hook for whatever log he signed up for eating at the end of the season.
 
lovegtm

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,253
bigq said:
That’s one way to make an otherwise meaningless late season game interesting. I loved it. I don’t bet on games but I think it is unlikely that Sam Hauser goes 1-13 on a crap ton of open looks from three again.

And as an added bonus the Celtics win keeps @Sam Ray Not on the hook for whatever log he signed up for eating at the end of the season.
Click to expand...
To be clear, I was a big fan of stretching the starters out and then letting the bench try to close it.
 
bigq

bigq

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,199
lovegtm said:
To be clear, I was a big fan of stretching the starters out and then letting the bench try to close it.
Click to expand...
I was pretty certain you were. There has been a fair amount of chatter about the benefits of using the regular season to experiment. Mazzulla’s willingness to do so has been a really interesting wrinkle to a highly entertaining season. When they experiment and win it is especially rewarding.
 
InstaFace

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
22,281
Pittsburgh, PA
bigq said:
I was pretty certain you were. There has been a fair amount of chatter about the benefits of using the regular season to experiment. Mazzulla’s willingness to do so has been a really interesting wrinkle to a highly entertaining season. When they experiment and win it is especially rewarding.
Click to expand...
At the rate he's going, it's good that the regular season is ending in just a few games, because after 10 or 15 more games of this he'd reach the point of like "let's paint a face on Payton Pritchard's ass and have him run around the court backwards, see how that goes, I bet he can still run the fast break."

"guys, we need to be ready for all scenarios, we gotta work on our backup plans and the tools deep in the toolkit. Tonight as soon as we're up double digits, we're working on Plan F: just permanently leave one guy in the backcourt for an immediate outlet pass after a steal or rebound, and we'll just defend in the half-court 4-on-5. Really lean into the transition stuff."
 
PedraMartina

PedraMartina

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
82
Los Angeles
InstaFace said:
"guys, we need to be ready for all scenarios, we gotta work on our backup plans and the tools deep in the toolkit. Tonight as soon as we're up double digits, we're working on Plan F: just permanently leave one guy in the backcourt for an immediate outlet pass after a steal or rebound, and we'll just defend in the half-court 4-on-5. Really lean into the transition stuff."
Click to expand...
Critical reps for those occasions when somebody falls over on offense and ends up in the backcourt on D!
 
wade boggs chicken dinner

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,820
InstaFace said:
"guys, we need to be ready for all scenarios, we gotta work on our backup plans and the tools deep in the toolkit. Tonight as soon as we're up double digits, we're working on Plan F: just permanently leave one guy in the backcourt for an immediate outlet pass after a steal or rebound, and we'll just defend in the half-court 4-on-5. Really lean into the transition stuff."
Click to expand...
Wasn’t SAC having their G League team run this offense at one point?
 
DeJesus Built My Hotrod

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,726
He isn't perfect and he clearly has a lot of talent to work with. But so too do other NBA coaches and yet he doesn't seem to be leaving much on the table. Winning 70% of your games the first two seasons in the league is still impressive. There are plenty of coaches who inherit very talented rosters and fail. That isn't happening here yet.

80605
 
tims4wins

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,540
Hingham, MA
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
He isn't perfect and he clearly has a lot of talent to work with. But so too do other NBA coaches and yet he doesn't seem to be leaving much on the table. Winning 70% of your games the first two seasons in the league is still impressive. There are plenty of coaches who inherit very talented rosters and fail. That isn't happening here yet.

View attachment 80605
Click to expand...
I mean Doc is under .500 with the Bucks this year.
 
joe dokes

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,614
InstaFace said:
At the rate he's going, it's good that the regular season is ending in just a few games, because after 10 or 15 more games of this he'd reach the point of like "let's paint a face on Payton Pritchard's ass and have him run around the court backwards, see how that goes, I bet he can still run the fast break."

"guys, we need to be ready for all scenarios, we gotta work on our backup plans and the tools deep in the toolkit. Tonight as soon as we're up double digits, we're working on Plan F: just permanently leave one guy in the backcourt for an immediate outlet pass after a steal or rebound, and we'll just defend in the half-court 4-on-5. Really lean into the transition stuff."
Click to expand...
What if they suddenly change to the ladies rules in place til the early 70s. Three forwards & 2 d-men, and ne'er the twin shall join.
 
Last edited:
InstaFace

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
22,281
Pittsburgh, PA
Mighty Ducks rules: instruct the officials before the game that no baskets are allowed to count for us until all 5 players touch the ball on the possession.
 
TripleOT

TripleOT

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2007
7,783
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
He isn't perfect and he clearly has a lot of talent to work with. But so too do other NBA coaches and yet he doesn't seem to be leaving much on the table. Winning 70% of your games the first two seasons in the league is still impressive. There are plenty of coaches who inherit very talented rosters and fail. That isn't happening here yet.

View attachment 80605
Click to expand...
If Boston loses only one more game, Mazzulla would have won 75% of the games his first two seasons, an amazing accomplishment, something that Pat Riley couldn’t do with five and six HoFers in his first two seasons.
 
tims4wins

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,540
Hingham, MA
TripleOT said:
If Boston loses only one more game, Mazzulla would have won 75% of the games his first two seasons, an amazing accomplishment, something that Pat Riley couldn’t do with five and six HoFers in his first two seasons.
Click to expand...
The entire narrative is going to change, soon. I’m old enough to remember when everyone thought the Heatles should fire Spo and slide Reilly in as HC. Now what does the world think of Spo? That’s going to be Joe - soon.
 
DeJesus Built My Hotrod

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,726
tims4wins said:
The entire narrative is going to change, soon. I’m old enough to remember when everyone thought the Heatles should fire Spo and slide Reilly in as HC. Now what does the world think of Spo? That’s going to be Joe - soon.
Click to expand...
I'm of that mind as well.

What is impressive is how he's done it. He didn't try to follow Udoka with more Ime. He did him and hoped the players saw in him what Stevens did - which is that he is a basketball nerd who seems obsessed with seeking every margin available to exploit and isn't afraid to look crazy/stupid in the process.

While Brad isn't as accomplished as Riles, its clear he is pretty highly regarded within the sport. So your comparison feels apt, especially since Joe appears to be justifying the faith Stevens had in him.

The flip side is that if Boston doesn't win this season, Mazzulla may not be around much longer.
 
tims4wins

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,540
Hingham, MA
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
I'm of that mind as well.

What is impressive is how he's done it. He didn't try to follow Udoka with more Ime. He did him and hoped the players saw in him what Stevens did - which is that he is a basketball nerd who seems obsessed with seeking every margin available to exploit and isn't afraid to look crazy/stupid in the process.

While Brad isn't as accomplished as Riles, its clear he is pretty highly regarded within the sport. So your comparison feels apt, especially since Joe appears to be justifying the faith Stevens had in him.

The flip side is that if Boston doesn't win this season, Mazzulla may not be around much longer.
Click to expand...
Re your last sentence, while I think the media and fans might think that, I don’t think Brad does. That said it totally depends on the nature in which they lose.

That said - they ain’t losing.
 
lars10

lars10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
11,874
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
I'm of that mind as well.

What is impressive is how he's done it. He didn't try to follow Udoka with more Ime. He did him and hoped the players saw in him what Stevens did - which is that he is a basketball nerd who seems obsessed with seeking every margin available to exploit and isn't afraid to look crazy/stupid in the process.

While Brad isn't as accomplished as Riles, its clear he is pretty highly regarded within the sport. So your comparison feels apt, especially since Joe appears to be justifying the faith Stevens had in him.

The flip side is that if Boston doesn't win this season, Mazzulla may not be around much longer.
Click to expand...
Who would Boston replace him with..of the coaches that are available?
 
DeJesus Built My Hotrod

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,726
lars10 said:
Who would Boston replace him with..of the coaches that are available?
Click to expand...
I don't think he should be replaced, even if they lose.

However if this team falls short - especially if Mazzulla doesn't call timeouts when the bloggers and content creators think he should - the drumbeat for his replacement is going to get loud quickly. Brad seems patient but ownership is paying a lot for this roster. They may not be as forgiving.
 
joe dokes

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,614
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
What is impressive is how he's done it. He didn't try to follow Udoka with more Ime. He did him and hoped the players saw in him what Stevens did - which is that he is a basketball nerd who seems obsessed with seeking every margin available to exploit and isn't afraid to look crazy/stupid in the process.
Click to expand...
He challenged the stars (and everyone, really) in a way that engaged them to see the game and improve in ways that really hadn't occurred to them.
 
Red Averages

Red Averages

owes you $50
SoSH Member
Apr 20, 2003
9,215
TripleOT said:
If Boston loses only one more game, Mazzulla would have won 75% of the games his first two seasons, an amazing accomplishment, something that Pat Riley couldn’t do with five and six HoFers in his first two seasons.
Click to expand...
Crazy he is 2% odds to win Coach of the Year, isn’t it? It’s not like he’s won it 3 years in a row and they are trying to let someone else get a crack at it. He’s a 2nd year coach who has yet again exceeded the preseason expectations. Amazing how difference the narrative is if Tatum doesn’t sprain his ankle in game 7.
 
The Mort Report

The Mort Report

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 5, 2007
7,103
Concord
joe dokes said:
He challenged the stars (and everyone, really) in a way that engaged them to see the game and improve in ways that really hadn't occurred to them.
Click to expand...
This is also why I think the roster and him are a great fit. At the start of almost every timeout or break during FTs he is engaging one of the main guys. What makes it great to me is it's not him talking and them listening, it's always an engaged, mutual discussion. It's a collective effort that the stars bought into, so the rest of the roster does as well. I think right now he'd have a hard time coaching a team like Dallas because I just can't see their stars buying into what Joe is selling
 
HomeRunBaker

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,385
The Mort Report said:
This is also why I think the roster and him are a great fit. At the start of almost every timeout or break during FTs he is engaging one of the main guys. What makes it great to me is it's not him talking and them listening, it's always an engaged, mutual discussion. It's a collective effort that the stars bought into, so the rest of the roster does as well. I think right now he'd have a hard time coaching a team like Dallas because I just can't see their stars buying into what Joe is selling
Click to expand...
I think on enormous advantage he had was that as a second row assistant he’s the guy working individually with the younger players and not the HC or top assistants. Those guys, Tatum and Jaylen, are now the stars and leaders of the team when other veterans come on board. So Derrick sees how they respond to him and the relationship that they have and it’s simple to fit into that culture. Then Jrue and Kristaps do the same and here we are. Kumbaya!
 
InstaFace

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
22,281
Pittsburgh, PA
HomeRunBaker said:
I think on enormous advantage he had was that as a second row assistant he’s the guy working individually with the younger players and not the HC or top assistants. Those guys, Tatum and Jaylen, are now the stars and leaders of the team when other veterans come on board. So Derrick sees how they respond to him and the relationship that they have and it’s simple to fit into that culture. Then Jrue and Kristaps do the same and here we are. Kumbaya!
Click to expand...
I wonder if his relative lack of that same relationship background with Smart (Who predates Mazzulla in the organization by several years, while CJM and the Jays arrived roughly at the same time) was a factor in needing to ship Marcus out in order to unlock the best potential of this team. I didn't see too many signs last year that Smart didn't buy in, he mostly was just playing the way he always had... but maybe in retrospect, that itself was a sign that Mazzulla wasn't getting through to him, while both of the Jays have improved in very visible, measurable ways each of the last few years.
 
HomeRunBaker

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,385
InstaFace said:
I wonder if his relative lack of that same relationship background with Smart (Who predates Mazzulla in the organization by several years, while CJM and the Jays arrived roughly at the same time) was a factor in needing to ship Marcus out in order to unlock the best potential of this team. I didn't see too many signs last year that Smart didn't buy in, he mostly was just playing the way he always had... but maybe in retrospect, that itself was a sign that Mazzulla wasn't getting through to him, while both of the Jays have improved in very visible, measurable ways each of the last few years.
Click to expand...
I don’t know if that was the case but in hindsight it’s been pretty clear that Marcus had to be moved for this to truly be Jayson & Jaylens team. It’s worked out well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom