Following Former Celtics & Cs Nostalgia

InstaFace

InstaFace

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I occasionally see stuff about the Big 3 Era guys, or updates about recent Cs whom we're still wishing well, and there's nowhere to put it - everywhere is an awkward fit, whether it's the General NBA thread or the Celtics 2023-24 thread. I'll start off here with a couple.

Sad: Paul Pierce's LA home burglarized, loses watches, $100k in cash.

Most of the recent ex-Celtics are out injured, which includes Smart, TimeLord, Brogdon (tendinitis, hasn't played in 6 weeks), even Lamar Stevens (missed 5 games with an adductor strain).

One guy who's not? Isaiah Thomas, who just signed a 10-day contract with the Suns, at age 35.

Similarly, Kemba Walker (turning 34 in May) signed with AS Monaco in the EuroLeague for this season. Monaco is 3rd in the EuroLeague standings, behind only Real Madrid and Barcelona, and while Kemba's only playing 11 mins a game, he's shooting 37% on 3s, seems to still be a rotation player there. Monaco is the runaway leader in the French domestic league, with Wembanyama's former squad Metropolitans 92 going from being runner-up to Monaco last season, to being bottom of the table and in the relegation zone today.

Also looking up: Aaron Nesmith has crossed into positive-DARKO territory this year. He isn't just a pain in the ass to us only!
79699

Lastly, KG thought that he hadn't earned a jersey retirement from the Celtics, because he'd only gotten one championship for the team. Paul set him straight.

View: https://twitter.com/KevinGarnett5KG/status/1760701098644369525
 
HomeRunBaker

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Kemba would surely be a full-time starter on most any other team it’s just that he’s playing behind Mike James in Monaco. Jordan Loyd is their 2-guard if anyone remembers him from the Celtics summer league team eons ago. Alpha Diallo, former Providence Friar, their starting 3
 
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m0ckduck

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The Social Chair said:
The YouTube algorithm served this up to me and the NBC intro is a huge bummer.

Edit: you have to rewind the video back to the start.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mA2C5_L-Ixo&t=00s
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If DARKO had a career plots for players pre-1996, which player (from any era, now or then) would Reggie Lewis resemble through age 27 season? Who's an advanced stats comp for him?

Edit: Mikal Bridges? If Bridges had continued to evolve and hadn't hit a developmental brick wall in Brooklyn?
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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InstaFace said:
Most of the recent ex-Celtics are out injured, which includes Smart, TimeLord, Brogdon (tendinitis, hasn't played in 6 weeks), even Lamar Stevens (missed 5 games with an adductor strain).
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I know it's not really the intent of this thread, but man, it's ironic that all of the hand-wringing post trade was whether the new-look Cs would stay healthy (pleasestayhealthy) but it's hard to imagine what our team would be like if POBOS hadn't made those moves - and Smart, TL, and Brogdon had gone down.
 
bigq

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wade boggs chicken dinner said:
I know it's not really the intent of this thread, but man, it's ironic that all of the hand-wringing post trade was whether the new-look Cs would stay healthy (pleasestayhealthy) but it's hard to imagine what our team would be like if POBOS hadn't made those moves - and Smart, TL, and Brogdon had gone down.
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It's almost like PBS knew he needed to sell those three before their value cratered. There is certainly an element of luck involved but I choose to believe that PBS is a basketball savant. If he doesn't win NBA Executive of the Year then the award should be thrown in the garbage.
 
Lose Remerswaal

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bigq said:
It's almost like PBS knew he needed to sell those three before their value cratered. There is certainly an element of luck involved but I choose to believe that PBS is a basketball savant. If he doesn't win NBA Executive of the Year then the award should be thrown in the garbage.
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He never kept a college kid on the roster more than 4 years. Fact.
 
bakahump

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I know he is well remembered and died way to young but was Reggie Lewis really as great as we seem to remember him?
For a Scorer he never scored more then 21 pts a game.
Only avg 5 rebs once
3pters while in there infancy Toddler years.....only had him hitting them at 20%
EFG career .490
Only avg 2.6 Assists for his career
His VORP of around 3.0 would put him about 20th in the league in 23/24 (I know different era) with players like Kyrie and Barnes and Derrick White.
He never broke the top 15 in any meaningful category.

I fully admit I wasnt watching many games during 88-93 but his numbers appear just "Good".

So I ask.....was he really that great? Or do we just remember his fondly because he was (going to be) the Bridge from Larry to....Pierce.
(and of course because of his tragic passing).
 
astrozombie

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bigq said:
It's almost like PBS knew he needed to sell those three before their value cratered. There is certainly an element of luck involved but I choose to believe that PBS is a basketball savant. If he doesn't win NBA Executive of the Year then the award should be thrown in the garbage.
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I wonder what Danny Ainge would have done in some alternate universe where he is still GM for the Celtics. I can't help but feel he would have held onto Smart due to loyalty, held onto TL hoping his value would come back (I love TL, but it won't - he's never going to be the pre-injury TL ever again) and never traded for Brogdon. Danny did a lot of great things, but I like what Brad is doing too, in part because he has, to your point, a knack for knowing when it's time to fold on something.
 
changer591

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bakahump said:
I know he is well remembered and died way to young but was Reggie Lewis really as great as we seem to remember him?
For a Scorer he never scored more then 21 pts a game.
Only avg 5 rebs once
3pters while in there infancy Toddler years.....only had him hitting them at 20%
EFG career .490
Only avg 2.6 Assists for his career
His VORP of around 3.0 would put him about 20th in the league in 23/24 (I know different era) with players like Kyrie and Barnes and Derrick White.
He never broke the top 15 in any meaningful category.

I fully admit I wasnt watching many games during 88-93 but his numbers appear just "Good".

So I ask.....was he really that great? Or do we just remember his fondly because he was (going to be) the Bridge from Larry to....Pierce.
(and of course because of his tragic passing).
Click to expand...
21 pts was good for 16th in the league back in 92-93. Just as a reference, Anthony Edwards was 16th last year at 24.6. No, Reggie Lewis was not an all-timer like Michael Jordon or many of the players in front of him, but he was damn good for the time and his death really killed the Celtics when he was their only true star. He might not have been an all-time, but I would say he was the equivalent of a very good 1b on a team that had no 1a.
 
Pablo's TB Lover

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bakahump said:
I know he is well remembered and died way to young but was Reggie Lewis really as great as we seem to remember him?
For a Scorer he never scored more then 21 pts a game.
Only avg 5 rebs once
3pters while in there infancy Toddler years.....only had him hitting them at 20%
EFG career .490
Only avg 2.6 Assists for his career
His VORP of around 3.0 would put him about 20th in the league in 23/24 (I know different era) with players like Kyrie and Barnes and Derrick White.
He never broke the top 15 in any meaningful category.

I fully admit I wasnt watching many games during 88-93 but his numbers appear just "Good".

So I ask.....was he really that great? Or do we just remember his fondly because he was (going to be) the Bridge from Larry to....Pierce.
(and of course because of his tragic passing).
Click to expand...
The translation from then to now isn't easy, but I'd consider Reggie Lewis as equivalent to JB currently (and Ant Edwards as mentioned above, but he should ascend further upward before his prime). Very similar as well in that Reggie was a nice scorer who could make tough shots, but not a true playmaker making others better. So picture Jaylen as the best player on the team with no JT or Porzingis, then losing him suddenly. That would be a drop from a first or second round playoff team to bottom 3 in the conference (despite D White's best efforts) really quick.
 
Koufax

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Oddly, I was at the game when he collapsed. In that game -- and that game only -- he looked like Michael Jordan until he crumbled. Otherwise, he was very good but not great.
 
bigq

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bakahump said:
I know he is well remembered and died way to young but was Reggie Lewis really as great as we seem to remember him?
For a Scorer he never scored more then 21 pts a game.
Only avg 5 rebs once
3pters while in there infancy Toddler years.....only had him hitting them at 20%
EFG career .490
Only avg 2.6 Assists for his career
His VORP of around 3.0 would put him about 20th in the league in 23/24 (I know different era) with players like Kyrie and Barnes and Derrick White.
He never broke the top 15 in any meaningful category.

I fully admit I wasnt watching many games during 88-93 but his numbers appear just "Good".

So I ask.....was he really that great? Or do we just remember his fondly because he was (going to be) the Bridge from Larry to....Pierce.
(and of course because of his tragic passing).
Click to expand...
He was very good. He was a switchable wing who played both sides of the ball well. I remember Michael Jordan saying that Lewis was one of the best defenders he went up against noting that he had big active hands. Lewis and Bias were supposed to be the bridge to continued Celtics excellence post Bird, Parish and McHale.
 
Devizier

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bakahump said:
I know he is well remembered and died way to young but was Reggie Lewis really as great as we seem to remember him?
Click to expand...
I mean, no. But he was a local guy and therefore kind of a hero. Similarity scores are kind of junk but Kerry Kittles is on Lewis’ list of comparables and it’s not the worst one. Lewis was a good not great player, but was getting better as he aged. Not hard to see a healthy Lewis accumulating some good career numbers if he lived.
 
Jimbodandy

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Devizier said:
I mean, no. But he was a local guy and therefore kind of a hero. Similarity scores are kind of junk but Kerry Kittles is on Lewis’ list of comparables and it’s not the worst one. Lewis was a good not great player, but was getting better as he aged. Not hard to see a healthy Lewis accumulating some good career numbers if he lived.
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His comps are pretty fucking bonkers. Not sure what value we can take from them.

79732
 
InstaFace

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Jimbodandy said:
His comps are pretty fucking bonkers. Not sure what value we can take from them.

View attachment 79732
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Remember, Bk-Ref comps are based on similarity of overall value and shape of career (length vs peak, etc), based purely on win shares - not on playing style or position or responsibilities, nor even on similarity of common box-score rate stats.

Baseball-Reference comps are much more about the comparability of constituent stats. I don't know why they didn't try a similar approach with basketball.
 
The Social Chair

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Mikal Bridges is a good comp.

Reggie was really good in 1992 playoffs. He averaged 28 ppg during that run.

He probably would be better remembered if they won game 7 against Cleveland and played the Bulls in the ECF.
 
HomeRunBaker

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bosockboy said:
He should have been the Pippen to Bias’ Jordan.
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A broke man’s Pippen? We forget that prime Scottie was a Top-5 player in this league. Lewis was approaching his prime when he died and was maybe what a Top 20-30 player? That’s different levels right there.
 
bosockboy

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HomeRunBaker said:
A broke man’s Pippen? We forget that prime Scottie was a Top-5 player in this league. Lewis was approaching his prime when he died and was maybe what a Top 20-30 player? That’s different levels right there.
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Different yes, but we’ll never know what Pippen would’ve been if he were drafted by, say, the Clippers.
 
InstaFace

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Ed Hillel

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Meh. Let's be real, that's how all the old timers talk about Larry Bird.
 
Ed Hillel

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Speaking of Ex Celtics and the Rick Pitino coaching/drafting tree...Chauncey Billups made the Hall of Fame.

What?
 
Euclis20

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Ed Hillel said:
Speaking of Ex Celtics and the Rick Pitino coaching/drafting tree...Chauncey Billups made the Hall of Fame.

What?
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The 2004 Pistons team (known for being the only title team with no real stars) now officially had two HOFers in their absolute prime (and a HOF coach). Sometimes I really like that the basketball hall of fame is more inclusive than the other major sports HOFs, other times...meh.
 
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Euclis20 said:
TheSometimes I really like that the basketball hall of fame is more inclusive than the other major sports HOFs, other times...meh.
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The owner of the Pacers got voted in. Can anyone tell me what he did besides buying the team?
 
Euclis20

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Bosoxian said:
The owner of the Pacers got voted in. Can anyone tell me what he did besides buying the team?
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Longest tenured owner in NBA history (41 years now). He did what a hundred other guys have done (bought a team), now he just refuses to die or sell. That's something, I guess.
 
HomeRunBaker

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Bosoxian said:
The owner of the Pacers got voted in. Can anyone tell me what he did besides buying the team?
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Euclis20 said:
Longest tenured owner in NBA history (41 years now). He did what a hundred other guys have done (bought a team), now he just refuses to die or sell. That's something, I guess.
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The first thing wasn’t that he only bought the team, and he certainly didn’t do it the way others did, but he saved NBA basketball in Indiana by doing so. After the ABA merger the team was a financial disaster. The owner at the time couldn’t find a buyer and were about to turn the team over to the NBA. Simon didn’t want to buy it and take on all of their debt and couldn’t find an investor but ultimately bought it himself. Carlisle also spoke about how Simon has done so much behind the scenes but didn’t go into details. If an owner deserves to be in it is him.
 
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