16 Days in January—Determining Trade Deadline Activity

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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This is X-bomb season so none of these "reports", especially this repackaged Fischer drivel, should surprise. At the end of that article...

A deal for Williams, however, remains unlikely.

"They're just not a match," said Inside the Celtics reporter Bobby Krivitsky. "The Celtics want to move forward with Williams. So it would take a significant return to sway them."

Considering Toronto has shown no interest to move any of its core pieces, it's hard to see the Raptors building a package that's going to be enough to pry Williams loose.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Malik Beasley is having a down year, but if you are getting 19/20 or 20/21 Beasley, that is a damn good player.
He might be additive but Beasley, given his contract, feels like locking in to a fully valued league average player. In theory, the Celtics should be able to source similar production elsewhere more cheaply in terms of dollars alone, setting aside the outgoing assets. That said, if the report is accurate, maybe the Celtics see something in terms of fit or even upside - its just not that obvious.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Maybe I’m missing something but that seems like kind of an overpay for Malik Beasley? If that’s the going rate right now I really only see Brad dumping salary to get under the cap and nothing significant happening
Beasley is a train wreck that you probably want to stay away from. Aside from his jail time for chasing people out of his open house while waving a gun at them (and drug possession) he’s a mess on the court too. There aren’t many players with worse shot selection coupled with a reluctance to share the ball. He put up empty numbers in 14 games once he landed in Minnesota two years ago on a tanking team, signed a big contract, and showed that he wants to be a big guy with Towns and Edwards which is why he’s on the trade block. Please stay away from this player who would fit just as terribly with us.
 

Cellar-Door

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Beasley is a train wreck that you probably want to stay away from. Aside from his jail time for chasing people out of his open house while waving a gun at them (and drug possession) he’s a mess on the court too. There aren’t many players with worse shot selection coupled with a reluctance to share the ball. He put up empty numbers in 14 games once he landed in Minnesota two years ago on a tanking team, signed a big contract, and showed that he wants to be a big guy with Towns and Edwards which is why he’s on the trade block. Please stay away from this player who would fit just as terribly with us.
I generally agree, but I can see the appeal of a guy who is a career 38% shooter on high volume from 3 despite terrible shot selection. Beasley is a mess off the court, but Richardson and Nesmith would be buying pretty low on a guy with his shooting skills and athletic profile. I would guess Brad and Ime think.... low risk and if we can fix him he's everything we hoped for out of Nesmith and more.
 

Auger34

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Beasley is a train wreck that you probably want to stay away from. Aside from his jail time for chasing people out of his open house while waving a gun at them (and drug possession) he’s a mess on the court too. There aren’t many players with worse shot selection coupled with a reluctance to share the ball. He put up empty numbers in 14 games once he landed in Minnesota two years ago on a tanking team, signed a big contract, and showed that he wants to be a big guy with Towns and Edwards which is why he’s on the trade block. Please stay away from this player who would fit just as terribly with us.
Yeah, there’s some serious off the court issues too. He seems like a loose cannon.

Very surprised that Brad (apparently) wanted to trade for him. Even more surprises that the Wolves (apparently) turned down that offer
 

ZMart100

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The Beasley proposal looks like an attempt to get a little cap space and a roster spot with a minimal downgrade at backup wing to me. I don't think it is about making the team better, but possibly allowing a little more flexibility for another trade.
 

jezza1918

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Speaking to the on the court stuff only, does anyone know what changed for Beasley after his first two years, other than opportunity? Stats wise he looked every bit as incompetent as Nesmith has been through 80+ career games. I'm not advocating that Nesmith is going to be scoring 20/game in a few years...but it does strike me that for a lot of these types of players they just need reps. And the Celtics don't live to give them out. I follow the Celtics relatively closely, but not the entire NBA...hence my cluelessness about Beasley's development.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Again, we don't even know if the Celtics actually see Beasley as a fit. Fischer is carrying some water for some interested party but it doesn't appear to be Boston. If the interest happens to be real, I don't think its terrible either. This team needs to make changes and they almost certainly have to take a few gambles in doing so. Taking a troubled player who has the potential to become the bench scorer they clearly lack is one example.
 

Cellar-Door

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Again, we don't even know if the Celtics actually see Beasley as a fit. Fischer is carrying some water for some interested party but it doesn't appear to be Boston. If the interest happens to be real, I don't think its terrible either. This team needs to make changes and they almost certainly have to take a few gambles in doing so. Taking a troubled player who has the potential to become the bench scorer they clearly lack is one example.
That was actually from Jared Weiss, who probably got it from the Boston side and had Krawczynski confirm it with MIN or vice versa, I'd guess it came from an agent most likely Nesmith's
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Speaking to the on the court stuff only, does anyone know what changed for Beasley after his first two years, other than opportunity? Stats wise he looked every bit as incompetent as Nesmith has been through 80+ career games. I'm not advocating that Nesmith is going to be scoring 20/game in a few years...but it does strike me that for a lot of these types of players they just need reps. And the Celtics don't live to give them out. I follow the Celtics relatively closely, but not the entire NBA...hence my cluelessness about Beasley's development.
Can't talk about Beasley but agree that reps is super important, which we've been saying here through a bunch of threads but is something that in past years, doesn't happen with the ISO-heavy offense the Cs have ended up using. I mean Strus got, what, 18 3Ps up the other night. Nesmith doesn't get that in a month.

If the Cs sell low on Nesmith, we will end up shaking our head just like we did with Strus IMO.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Speaking to the on the court stuff only, does anyone know what changed for Beasley after his first two years, other than opportunity? Stats wise he looked every bit as incompetent as Nesmith has been through 80+ career games. I'm not advocating that Nesmith is going to be scoring 20/game in a few years...but it does strike me that for a lot of these types of players they just need reps. And the Celtics don't live to give them out. I follow the Celtics relatively closely, but not the entire NBA...hence my cluelessness about Beasley's development.
The difference between the two is that Beasley was ready to play minutes several years ago in Denver but was buried behind the deepest backcourt in the league at the time. Unlike Nesmith, he is a shot creator and he’d have been getting minutes and putting up points probably anywhere except Denver as he and Monte Morris were stuck in a logjam there. The issue now with Beasley is that Minnesota has seen him first hand with reps and he’s been pretty awful not only is the numbers but in the way he plays the game which has affected the teams entire flow on both ends.
 

jezza1918

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Can't talk about Beasley but agree that reps is super important, which we've been saying here through a bunch of threads but is something that in past years, doesn't happen with the ISO-heavy offense the Cs have ended up using. I mean Strus got, what, 18 3Ps up the other night. Nesmith doesn't get that in a month.

If the Cs sell low on Nesmith, we will end up shaking our head just like we did with Strus IMO.
The difference between the two is that Beasley was ready to play minutes several years ago in Denver but was buried behind the deepest backcourt in the league at the time. Unlike Nesmith, he is a shot creator and he’d have been getting minutes and putting up points probably anywhere except Denver as he and Monte Morris were stuck in a logjam there.
Both of these make sense, appreciate the insight.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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That was actually from Jared Weiss, who probably got it from the Boston side and had Krawczynski confirm it with MIN or vice versa, I'd guess it came from an agent most likely Nesmith's
You are correct - I conflated that with the Raptors/TL report and Fischer's other mentions of the Celtics/Wolves Smart rumors that also had Beasley on the move - apologies.

Regardless, that doesn't seem like a Boston sourced report but that's just my read.
 

Cellar-Door

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So Celtics blog asked Keith Smith to put together a deadline that made sense for cap reasons while making the team better, this is what he came up with:
https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/2/2/22914622/two-trade-ideas-to-improve-the-boston-celtics-now-and-moving-forward

Interesting. I don't think POR does that trade, but otherwise it's not crazy:

Basically:
Schroder to CHI, Snell to CHI
RIchardson to POR, Thomas to POR
Powell to BOS, Brown Jr. to BOS

THEN;
Horford, Langford, 1st to SAC
Barnes, Len to BOS

I think the Celtics underpay in trade 1, arguably overpay in trade 2.

The reasoning isn't bad though, CHI fixes their backcourt issues, POR gets off a bunch of money letting them sign Simons without tanking, BOS gets under the cap and adds two good role players, and SAC gets value for Barnes and cuts a little money next year.
 

benhogan

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So Celtics blog asked Keith Smith to put together a deadline that made sense for cap reasons while making the team better, this is what he came up with:
https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/2/2/22914622/two-trade-ideas-to-improve-the-boston-celtics-now-and-moving-forward

Interesting. I don't think POR does that trade, but otherwise it's not crazy:

Basically:
Schroder to CHI, Snell to CHI
RIchardson to POR, Thomas to POR
Powell to BOS, Brown Jr. to BOS

THEN;
Horford, Langford, 1st to SAC
Barnes, Len to BOS

I think the Celtics underpay in trade 1, arguably overpay in trade 2.

The reasoning isn't bad though, CHI fixes their backcourt issues, POR gets off a bunch of money letting them sign Simons without tanking, BOS gets under the cap and adds two good role players, and SAC gets value for Barnes and cuts a little money next year.
adds two 38-40% 3pt shooters in Barnes & Powell

3pt%/ floor spacing is this teams biggest issue IMO

Powell is sneaky strong and Barnes is long, both would be fine in a switchy D

Both deals seem somewhat fair for all sides.
 
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JM3

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Feels to me like Richardson to Utah makes sense for Jazz, it's just a question of whether they will pay a 1st for it (I suspect not). And if they won't, I'd rather just have Richardson as a player/contract for the summer and into next year than take a low second.

I guess if you like Jared Butler you might?
I need Utah to free Butler so my prediction that he'll have a better NBA career than Davion Mitchell comes to fruition.
 

JM3

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Some roundup news:
View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2953006-trade-deadline-intel-wizards-among-nbas-most-active-shoppers-eyeing-sabonis

Fischer notes that Schroder for Troy Brown Jr and a 2nd has been discussed, and that Richardson is being shopped, with Utah among interested teams (also notes that MIN likes Smart and TOR wants TL, but neither of those seem to indicate any actual discussions or interest on Boston's part).

Edit- I think the Troy Brown trade isn't happening, the Celtics are looking to cut more salary than that, just dumping Schroder to CLE for a 2nd would be better.
Troy Brown for Schroder + Bol works to save $2.9m.
 

Burkharts Uppercut

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Troy Brown for Schroder + Bol works to save $2.9m.
You can't combine Bol or Dozier in aggregated trades. They can only be traded individually because they were recently traded for.

But I am curious, with all the media focus on Schroeder and other player moves to get under the cap, why the obvious move isn't to clear these roster spots with cash and 2nds. It was called out by another poster that OKC still has 22M to reach the salary floor and has 34M in cap space. The Jazz recently sent a 2028 2nd rounder for $850K in cap relief. Does Brad have a deal in his back pocket as the deadline approaches or is Presti squeezing? There's also several other teams that could buy a 2nd this way and stay under the tax, but OKC makes the most sense.
 
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Auger34

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RWIII for Goran Dragic and a FRP is beyond ridiculous.
Was that proposed somewhere?! I mean, come the fuck on. That’s absolutely embarrassing for anyone that calls themselves an NBA writer to actually propose
 

JM3

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You can't combine Bol or Dozier in aggregated trades. They can only be traded individually because they were recently traded for.

But I am curious, with all the media focus on Schroeder and other player moves to get under the cap, why the obvious move isn't to clear these roster spots with cash and 2nds. It was called out by another poster that OKC still has 22M to reach the salary floor and has 34M in cap space. The Jazz recently sent a 2028 2nd rounder for $850K in cap relief. Does Brad have a deal in his back pocket as the deadline approaches or is Presti squeezing?
The ESPN trade machine has failed me. Could still save $2.5m by throwing Bruno in, though.

I guess the question is more do they want to get a minor asset or give up a minor asset to get under. If the team isn't going to be impacted either this year or in the future, better to get the minor asset from someone with a positive value on someone like Schroder.
 

Auger34

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So Celtics blog asked Keith Smith to put together a deadline that made sense for cap reasons while making the team better, this is what he came up with:
https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/2/2/22914622/two-trade-ideas-to-improve-the-boston-celtics-now-and-moving-forward

Interesting. I don't think POR does that trade, but otherwise it's not crazy:

Basically:
Schroder to CHI, Snell to CHI
RIchardson to POR, Thomas to POR
Powell to BOS, Brown Jr. to BOS

THEN;
Horford, Langford, 1st to SAC
Barnes, Len to BOS

I think the Celtics underpay in trade 1, arguably overpay in trade 2.

The reasoning isn't bad though, CHI fixes their backcourt issues, POR gets off a bunch of money letting them sign Simons without tanking, BOS gets under the cap and adds two good role players, and SAC gets value for Barnes and cuts a little money next year.
I had the same exact reaction you did. I would have said that Barnes and Powell are very similar in trade value but the Celtics are giving up a lot more for Barnes than they are for Powell
 

JM3

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Was that proposed somewhere?! I mean, come the fuck on. That’s absolutely embarrassing for anyone that calls themselves an NBA writer to actually propose
Especially since to make the $ work you'd really have to be including Horford, too.

What does that look like?

FVV/Dragic/Birch/Achiuwa (1sts?) for TL/Al/Smart/Schroder/Fernando?

But yeah, seems nonsensical all the way around.
 

Cesar Crespo

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View: https://twitter.com/TheAthleticNBA/status/1488906139257348096


Maybe I’m missing something but that seems like kind of an overpay for Malik Beasley? If that’s the going rate right now I really only see Brad dumping salary to get under the cap and nothing significant happening
Beasley is on a pretty cheap contract and has been playing better of late. If he returns to last years form, it's not an overpay.

With that said, I want nothing to do with Beasley. The dude pulled a gun on an innocent family with kids.
 

Cesar Crespo

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So Celtics blog asked Keith Smith to put together a deadline that made sense for cap reasons while making the team better, this is what he came up with:
https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/2/2/22914622/two-trade-ideas-to-improve-the-boston-celtics-now-and-moving-forward

Interesting. I don't think POR does that trade, but otherwise it's not crazy:

Basically:
Schroder to CHI, Snell to CHI
RIchardson to POR, Thomas to POR
Powell to BOS, Brown Jr. to BOS

THEN;
Horford, Langford, 1st to SAC
Barnes, Len to BOS

I think the Celtics underpay in trade 1, arguably overpay in trade 2.

The reasoning isn't bad though, CHI fixes their backcourt issues, POR gets off a bunch of money letting them sign Simons without tanking, BOS gets under the cap and adds two good role players, and SAC gets value for Barnes and cuts a little money next year.
This would be amazing for the C's.

Who would start though? TL/Barnes/Tatum/Brown/Smart with Powell off the bench for 30 a night?

They'd also desperately need a back up C. Not sure how that would work out long term salary wise for the C's though. You'd be locked in to Smart, TL and Powell for 4 more years, Tatum for 3 and Brown for 2.
 

nighthob

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I don't think Williams is untouchable by any stretch, do you? I don't really see a match though
There are deals that make sense for Boston, but the Raptors aren't willing to make one of them. So you're right that it's a moot point.
 

benhogan

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This would be amazing for the C's.

Who would start though? TL/Barnes/Tatum/Brown/Smart with Powell off the bench for 30 a night?

They'd also desperately need a back up C. Not sure how that would work out long term salary wise for the C's though. You'd be locked in to Smart, TL and Powell for 4 more years, Tatum for 3 and Brown for 2.
they could add Muscala for peanuts

spread the floor bitches

plus there will be buyouts
 

the moops

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This would be amazing for the C's.

Who would start though? TL/Barnes/Tatum/Brown/Smart with Powell off the bench for 30 a night?

They'd also desperately need a back up C. Not sure how that would work out long term salary wise for the C's though. You'd be locked in to Smart, TL and Powell for 4 more years, Tatum for 3 and Brown for 2.
A backup center is probably just abot the easiest thing to get. heck, could expand the trade and have POR throw in Zeller
 

Cellar-Door

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The ESPN trade machine has failed me. Could still save $2.5m by throwing Bruno in, though.

I guess the question is more do they want to get a minor asset or give up a minor asset to get under. If the team isn't going to be impacted either this year or in the future, better to get the minor asset from someone with a positive value on someone like Schroder.
Here this is much better than the ESPN one, and you can use it to see who has a TPE.
https://fanspo.com/nba/trade-machine
 

Burkharts Uppercut

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they could add Muscala for peanuts
Agreed. Muscala would be a great fit for spacing. The advanced metrics even like his D this season.

The two blockers are that there seems to be a real mutual admiration between Muscala and the OKC organization, so he might not be available for as cheap as we would expect. He also has a stress fracture in his foot that may require surgery after the season. His minutes have been limited and he doesn't practice much.
 

ZMart100

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So Celtics blog asked Keith Smith to put together a deadline that made sense for cap reasons while making the team better, this is what he came up with:
https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/2/2/22914622/two-trade-ideas-to-improve-the-boston-celtics-now-and-moving-forward

Interesting. I don't think POR does that trade, but otherwise it's not crazy:

Basically:
Schroder to CHI, Snell to CHI
RIchardson to POR, Thomas to POR
Powell to BOS, Brown Jr. to BOS

THEN;
Horford, Langford, 1st to SAC
Barnes, Len to BOS

I think the Celtics underpay in trade 1, arguably overpay in trade 2.

The reasoning isn't bad though, CHI fixes their backcourt issues, POR gets off a bunch of money letting them sign Simons without tanking, BOS gets under the cap and adds two good role players, and SAC gets value for Barnes and cuts a little money next year.
What am I missing? Horford + Langford for Barnes + Len doesn't seem to work with the cap. You could drop Langford and have it work, but then you aren't getting under the tax.
 

Cesar Crespo

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ZMart100

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https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7528085

It works?

And it didn't work here: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine

I dunno.

Didn't work here either: https://fanspo.com/nba/trade-machine

It's only $684,000 off from working. They could make it work.
Interesting. I'm not sure what money realgm is using. I tried both espn and fanspo plus spotrac and it didn't work on those 3.

The weird thing about realgm is the explanation they give:
Due to Sacramento being under the cap and choosing to invoke the Cap Room rule, Sacramento could not go over the cap by more than $100,000 of post-trade Team Salary, which did happen here.


Due to Boston being under the cap and choosing to invoke the Cap Room rule, Boston could not go over the cap by more than $100,000 of post-trade Team Salary, which did happen here.
I can't make heads or tails of what they are trying to say. Both teams are over the cap so the cap room rule should be irrelevant.

They could find another trade that works, but this version doesn't appear to.
 
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Cesar Crespo

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Horford, Langford and Freedom for Barnes, Len and Damion Jones works

Not sure if it gets the C's under the cap though.
 

NomarsFool

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Can the Celtics trade a player making $3 million for a player making $2.9 million, and send along $200K for the trouble and save $100K off the cap?

In other words, they are allowed to send some money along in a player swap, does that sent money have cap implications?

If the Celtics are really close to getting under the salary cap, I'd think there would be some GMs out there that would be willing to help Brad out without looking for meaningful draft capital in return. For example, that Jabari Bird trade.
 

benhogan

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Agreed. Muscala would be a great fit for spacing. The advanced metrics even like his D this season.

The two blockers are that there seems to be a real mutual admiration between Muscala and the OKC organization, so he might not be available for as cheap as we would expect. He also has a stress fracture in his foot that may require surgery after the season. His minutes have been limited and he doesn't practice much.
there were a handful of serviceable back-up Centers bought out last year. Something similar probably happens again this season

back-up Center is the last thing they'd have to worry about unless TL gets injured, which ends the season anyways
 

Cellar-Door

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Interesting. I'm not sure what money realgm is using. I tried both espn and fanspo plus spotrac and it didn't work on those 3.

The weird thing about realgm is the explanation they give:
I can't make heads or tails of what they are trying to say. Both teams are over the cap so the cap room rule should be irrelevant.

They could find another trade that works, but this version doesn't appear to.
yeah, Smith is a top cap guy, so I assume there is something he saw, but I can't figure out how this works. The RealGM trade machine is broken, it thinks the Celtics and Kings are under the cap, which neither are, so it is just broken.
I thought it had Romeo going into a TPE, but he makes a bit more than SAC's biggest TPE
 

PedroKsBambino

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Who says no/asks for additional assets: Horford, TL, Smart for Siakam & Birch
 

nighthob

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Who says no/asks for additional assets: Horford, TL, Smart for Siakam & Birch
The Celtics would be placing a lot of faith in Khemes Birchdom at C and feature some disastrously bad ball handling/playmaking. Not sure that works for Boston.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Rob has to have very high trade value at this point.
I don’t know about that. Teams all remember him being medically red flagged prior to the draft and this is the only year he’s been healthy. There would be a ton of risk for the acquiring team in giving up a big return.
 

PedroKsBambino

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The Celtics would be placing a lot of faith in Khemes Birchdom at C and feature some disastrously bad ball handling/playmaking. Not sure that works for Boston.
I think it's mostly a next-year deal: you'd use the TPE to get a decent PG and then backfill center.

Siakam is a good passer; I actually think the biggest issue is the impact on defense. But it probably isn"t going to happen!
 

chilidawg

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I don’t know about that. Teams all remember him being medically red flagged prior to the draft and this is the only year he’s been healthy. There would be a ton of risk for the acquiring team in giving up a big return.
As good as he's been lately, I'd want something spectacular if I'm trading Rob. Who would y'all trade him for right now, straight up?
 

NomarsFool

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As good as he's been lately, I'd want something spectacular if I'm trading Rob. Who would y'all trade him for right now, straight up?
I enjoy TL a lot, but if there was a similar talent, similar age, similar contract PG who could guard multiple positions who was a good fit - I'd make that trade, just because I think PG is a bigger position of need on this team.
 

HomeRunBaker

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As good as he's been lately, I'd want something spectacular if I'm trading Rob. Who would y'all trade him for right now, straight up?
I don’t think TL is going anywhere as he provides more value to us on the floor than he does in a trade where teams could/would/should be leery about his medicals. From my seat he’s second to Tatum as least likely to be moved for this reason.