2013 Broncos: The Unholy Alliance

[Reverend]

 
So in this thread we have the topic of Manning setting the new single season TD record and the most common theme in the responses is "Why isn't the media calling them classless?!?".
 
That sentiment pollutes the thread.  It's not about Denver, it's about the media.
 
I don't expect a group of Pats fans to fall to the ground in awe of Peyton Manning.  But "the media sucks" is just so tired.

 
Just to clarify, this is mistaken and you're actually missing it because you are a Broncos fan bristling at people talking bad about your guys. SJH and Dog's larger point isn't that the media should call Denver classless, it's that they should not have called the Patriots classless in the first place; they are pointing out the lack of calling the Broncos classless as evidence of hypocrisy to show they shouldn't have called the Patriots classless.
 
You're focused on your team so you're missing this. Which makes sense: you're focused on your team and they're focused on theirs.
 
 

Its really pretty amazing. His arm is so much weaker now than it was before his neck injury that he must have had to make a ton of adjustments - when to release the ball in a receiver's pattern, what types of throws he could get away with, a much greater focus on little touch passes and lobs, etc. All that precise timing and instinct and muscle memory developed over 20 odd years playing the position with a reasonably strong arm had to be consciously adjusted.

I love me some Manning face and I really hope the Broncos flame out of the playoffs in the first round but you have to tip your cap to the achievement.

 
There really is something fascinating in watching a player lose some ability and have to up their game in some new way. It's an imperfect analogy in that Peyton has always known the game so well, but it's a bit like when a pitcher loses some heat and has to learn to pitch. Or when Jordan developed the fall-away.

 

[NatetheGreat]

Peyton had turned into the nfl's version of Greg maddux. No fastball, just smarts and good ball placement.

 

[snowmanny]

And an 11-14 record in the postseason.

 

[deconstruction]

 
Just to clarify, this is mistaken and you're actually missing it because you are a Broncos fan bristling at people talking bad about your guys. SJH and Dog's larger point isn't that the media should call Denver classless, it's that they should not have called the Patriots classless in the first place; they are pointing out the lack of calling the Broncos classless as evidence of hypocrisy to show they shouldn't have called the Patriots classless.
 
You're focused on your team so you're missing this. Which makes sense: you're focused on your team and they're focused on theirs.

 
Nearby, I think Spike showed that he actually grasped the point: The media dislike Bill Belichick and any attempt to understand its criticism of the Patriots can be flow-charted to this singular irrational conclusion (or premise, rather). He didn't go as far as saying he deplored this treatment, but I'm guessing he leans in agreement with Pats fans.
 
I think he gets the hypocrisy, but at the same time is defending the cloth as per your evidence.
 
Edited to spell Belichick's name correctly. I admit: I'm not a Pats fan!

 

[soxfan121]

Peyton had turned into the nfl's version of Greg maddux. No fastball, just smarts and good ball placement.

And an 11-14 record in the postseason.

 

 

[crystalline]

 
Nearby, I think Spike showed that he actually grasped the point: The media dislike Bill Belichick and any attempt to understand its criticism of the Patriots can be flow-charted to this singular irrational conclusion (or premise, rather). He didn't go as far as saying he deplored this treatment, but I'm guessing he leans in agreement with Pats fans.
 
I think he gets the hypocrisy, but at the same time is defending the cloth as per your evidence.
 
Edited to spell Belichick's name correctly. I admit: I'm not a Pats fan!

It's not dislike especially for the national talking heads. Sports "media" is entertainment/advertising. Anti-Patriots stories resonate and draw attention, clicks, and dollars. The media/entertainers you guys are talking about push whatever narrative they think will work.

 

[DJnVa]

Yes, but that narrative started somewhere. Someone pushed it.
 
Somehow the 6th round QB with few weapons is the entitled guy and the guy almost born to his QB role, with lots of talented skill players around him is the "Every Man".

 

[NatetheGreat]

Somehow the 6th round QB with few weapons is the entitled guy and the guy almost born to his QB role, with lots of talented skill players around him is the "Every Man".

 
Honestly in a strange way I wonder if Brady's good looks don't end up hurting him on this front. Regardless of where he was drafted, he looks like a quarterback right out of central casting. Factor in a supermodel wife and a coach widely seen as  a ruthless sonofabitch, and he checks off a lot of the boxes for "the antagonist from an 80's movie who gets upset by a ragtag band of misfits." 

 

[Leather]

Manning places a much higher value on his football image than Brady. He's always talking to the media, doing commercials, appearing on magazine covers, etc.

Media members LIKE him more than they like Brady because he makes their job easier by being so accessible. He scratches their backs by being easy to write about, and they scratch his by casting him in a positive light and pooh poohing his shortcomings. Look no further than Peter King for Exhibit A.

On the other end of the spectrum is Belichick.

 

[lars10]

Manning places a much higher value on his football image than Brady. He's always talking to the media, doing commercials, appearing on magazine covers, etc.

Media members LIKE him more than they like Brady because he makes their job easier by being so accessible.

I think there are several different points being made here that I disagree with

1. Brady is just as available to the media... He talks all the time and answers questions.
2. Taking every single advertisement that comes down the pike is a choice that Peyton has made and Brady has not... MANY times people argue that these types of things are distractions rather than positives. Brady consistently says he prefers to concentrate on football and carefully craft and maintain his image... Peyton takes essentially anything offered it seems. Brady doesn't appear on magazine covers??
3. I think manning has an aw shucks affect that the general public relates to.... He's like the cubs...a guy who plays great ball and is a superstar but somehow comes across as the underdog cause he's awful in many big games going back to college. People love underdogs. It's boring to report about teams that have dominated...it's a much better story to talk/write about the superstar who 'overcame adversity' (c)... It's why we now all love lebron! Just ask espn!

 

[Leather]

So Manning is like the Cubs.

Ok.

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

On the subject, TMQ writes:
 

Reader David Clauss of East Providence, R.I., writes, "Back in 2007 when New England's offense was a juggernaut and ran up the score, you consistently criticized Bill Belichick for this. This season, you say nothing about John Fox, and praise Denver's dazzling offensive stats. Why the Broncos favoritism?"
All season I've mulled whether Denver is running up the score. Denver defeated Tennessee 51-28, but the lead did not become insurmountable until late. When the Broncs led Philadelphia 42-13 at the end of the third quarter, Manning held a clipboard for the rest of the contest. So, no problem with either of those high-scoring outings. Sunday, Manning should have come out with the Broncos ahead 30-13 and only five minutes remaining: Denver plainly was playing to make sure its star got the touchdown-passes record. (He might sit in the season finale.) On the other hand, the Broncos wish they'd run up the score when they held a seemingly safe 24-0 lead at New England.
I'd be the first to admit some of the difference in reaction is optics. Belichick snarls at the public; Fox comes across as awe-shucks. Maybe they're both different in private. But no one puts a gun to Belichick's head and forces him to snarl -- he could make an effort to seem grateful for his good fortune.

 
At least he's honest in his stupidity.  I wonder what fraction of the sports media echo this general belief.

 

[lars10]

So Manning is like the Cubs.

Ok.

That's your takeaway!? Nice.

Edit: surely you've heard 'lovable loser' or similar... Peyton obviously is a superstar but he is relatable cause he's always down on himself win or not...'we were great out there but those guys played their tails off' or something. But even as a superstar he somehow gets written up as the underdog.. Maybe the 2013 Sox then? Best team in baseball that no one ever ever expected to win!? (Going into the playoffs..but maybe the tigers or cardinals too...'how could they ever win with all that pitching??' (FYI intended as joke). The media likes to pretend/think the public has no idea what they're watching so they can write their own script.)

 

[Ed Hillel]

On the other hand, the Broncos wish they'd run up the score when they held a seemingly safe 24-0 lead at New England.

 
Um, yeah. I guess the Broncos shouldn't have pulled Manning at half time that game.

 

[lars10]

 
Um, yeah. I guess the Broncos shouldn't have pulled Manning at half time that game.

And a 30-13 against the Texans with 5 minutes left is the same thing as a 24-0 lead against the Pats at half.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

That whole paragraph MDL quotes is head-wound moronic on TMQ's part. Ye gods.

"Grateful for his good fortune"? To whom? Bob Kraft, maybe. The rest of his success is entirely self-made.

 

[DJnVa]

That's your takeaway!? Nice.

Edit: surely you've heard 'lovable loser' or similar... Peyton obviously is a superstar but he is relatable cause he's always down on himself win or not...'we were great out there but those guys played their tails off' or something. But even as a superstar he somehow gets written up as the underdog.. Maybe the 2013 Sox then? Best team in baseball that no one ever ever expected to win!? (Going into the playoffs..but maybe the tigers or cardinals too...'how could they ever win with all that pitching??' (FYI intended as joke). The media likes to pretend/think the public has no idea what they're watching so they can write their own script.)

 
Yes...that bolded shouldn't be your answer, that's kinda part of the question. Why does that happen?
 
And Brady is self-effacing as hell, so that's not it.

 

[mascho]

That portion of TMQ's column quoted above is so beyond stupid I am enraged and want to cancel Christmas.

1. I guess as Patriots fans we should be thankful that the Broncos laid down at halftime with a 24-0 lead. I can only imagine what the final score would have been in that game had Denver kept trying.

2. Peyton "might sit the regular season finale?" Again, we Patriots fans should be thankful Denver also seems willing to surrender the #1 overall seed. Maybe that's just Fox's "aw shucks nature."

3. And Belichick has certainly had such good fortune. I mean, the luck to have your HOF QB lost for an entire season! And to lose one of your mis-match creating TEs after the draft because he is a cold blooded killer off the field too? Such fortune! Especially when his running partner misses the first part of the season, and then comes back only to blow out his knee. I'd go on but you get the point.

 

[lars10]

 
Yes...that bolded shouldn't be your answer, that's kinda part of the question. Why does that happen?
 
And Brady is self-effacing as hell, so that's not it.

Fair enough.

Maybe it's that he has a southern accent and seems more accessible...like you could invite him to a picnic or something and he'd come? And he gives powderpuff answers that mean nothing and can fit into every column written with no content in them. Brady has the model and wears uggs...Manning makes shitty pizza and drives himself to a BBQ.

Maybe it's because he dominates the regular season and doesn't perform as well in the playoffs? So he's the guy 'we want' to see win verse the team 'we're tired' of seeing win?

Probably just because Brady is linked with BB and Manning had Dungy and Fox... I think it's a tired narrative that BB hates the media... When he's asked intelligent questions or wants to educate he's interesting as hell...but people can't be bothered to search for a second...and I guess it's funnier to see him making fun of reporters on sports center.

 

[lars10]

That portion of TMQ's column quoted above is so beyond stupid I am enraged and want to cancel Christmas.
...
3. And Belichick has certainly had such good fortune. I mean, the luck to have your HOF QB lost for an entire season! And to lose one of your mis-match creating TEs after the draft because he is a cold blooded killer off the field too? Such fortune! Especially when his running partner misses the first part of the season, and then comes back only to blow out his knee. I'd go on but you get the point.

And BB snarls at ...the public? When? The press maybe but I guess saying that would be too accurate or not endear PK to his readers? Cause everyone pretty much despises the press. Poor PK...why is Bill sooooo mean? Maybe it's because he doesn't respect your meandering drivel?

 

[Leather]

Fair enough.

Maybe it's that he has a southern accent and seems more accessible...like you could invite him to a picnic or something and he'd come? And he gives powderpuff answers that mean nothing and can fit into every column written with no content in them. Brady has the model and wears uggs...Manning makes shitty pizza and drives himself to a BBQ.

Maybe it's because he dominates the regular season and doesn't perform as well in the playoffs? So he's the guy 'we want' to see win verse the team 'we're tired' of seeing win?

Probably just because Brady is linked with BB and Manning had Dungy and Fox... I think it's a tired narrative that BB hates the media... When he's asked intelligent questions or wants to educate he's interesting as hell...but people can't be bothered to search for a second...and I guess it's funnier to see him making fun of reporters on sports center.

 
What is your point?   I'm legitimately asking, because you're just saying stuff and disagreeing with people but it's not even clear what you disagree with.
 
The central point to my original comment was that Manning's deliberate accessibility was central to how he gets treated, and portrayed, by the media.  You took issue with my point, yet here you are a day later using the exact same point that I made to...do what, exactly?
 
My point was very simple:  Manning treats the press and public one way, which results in the press and public treating Manning in a certain way.   Brady (and Belichick) treat(s) the press and public in another way, and their accomplishments are viewed in a different, more critical, way than Mannings.
 
What, if anything, about that statement do you disagree with?  My gut reaction is that you want to defend Manning, but you know I'm right, so you can't without resorting to oblique analogies.

 

[lars10]

 
My point was very simple:  Manning treats the press and public one way, which results in the press and public treating Manning in a certain way.   Brady (and Belichick) treat(s) the press and public in another way, and their accomplishments are viewed in a different, more critical, way than Mannings.

I disagree that Brady treats the media any different than Manning. I also disagree that Brady is less accessible... Unless you're talking car commercials or I guess accessible personality or lifestyle-wise? Is Brady ever condescending to the media?

I think where we agree is that it's about Bill... IMO It's never been about Brady.

 

[bankshot1]

IMO the Pat's PR suffers outside the bounds of New England from the lingering effects of 1) the Tuck rule (Brady really fumbled and the SOBs got lucky on a dumb rule and never should have won) and 2) Spygate and Darth Belichick. (not only are the Pat lucky SOB's but they cheat). So good luck to Brady in a PR contest with Mr Aww shucks

 

[DJnVa]

2. Peyton "might sit the regular season finale?" Again, we Patriots fans should be thankful Denver also seems willing to surrender the #1 overall seed. Maybe that's just Fox's "aw shucks nature."

 
Wasn't the Denver game early? I think his point here was that at the time, it was possible NE could lose later in the day and if that happened, the Broncos would have not had anything to play for.
 
Then again, if you're willing to throw late like that to get the record, wouldn't you also be willing to play him in week 17 to get him the record if needed?

 

[Leather]

I disagree that Brady treats the media any different than Manning. I also disagree that Brady is less accessible... Unless you're talking car commercials or I guess accessible personality or lifestyle-wise? Is Brady ever condescending to the media?

I think where we agree is that it's about Bill... IMO It's never been about Brady.

 
Brady doesn't go out of his way to give interviews, do commercials, or buddy-up to the media like Manning does. And when he does do it, he comes across as awkward (holding a goat?  Crying about being picked in the 6th round?  Wearing Uggs?). 
 
Generally speaking, Manning gets treated like a star athlete by the press, so that's how he's viewed by most neutral fans.  Brady gets treated more like a celebrity, with candid shots of him going down water slides at a resort, hanging out with Giselle in NYC, and the like.  So while TMZ talks about Brady buying a Leed Certified Hollywood Mansion with Giselle, Manning pops up during the commercials in his uniform and a football in his hand to shill for the shittiest pizza chain in the world that fat slobs all over the nation eat on a weekly basis.  Then, to oblige him, Sports Illustrated will publish a photo of Manning in a hottub with his fucking helmet on (why?), studying plays. 
 
That's how the 6th round draft pick gets turned into the Prima Donna Athlete while Mr. Football From Birth gets a pass.

 

[mascho]

 
Wasn't the Denver game early? I think his point here was that at the time, it was possible NE could lose later in the day and if that happened, the Broncos would have not had anything to play for.
 
Then again, if you're willing to throw late like that to get the record, wouldn't you also be willing to play him in week 17 to get him the record if needed?

 
That is a fair point re: Denver playing early.  TMQ should have been more clear, i.e., "he might sit in week 17 if New England loses later that day" or something like that.

 

[lars10]

 
Brady doesn't go out of his way to give interviews, do commercials, or buddy-up to the media like Manning does. And when he does do it, he comes across as awkward (holding a goat?  Crying about being picked in the 6th round?  Wearing Uggs?). 
 
Generally speaking, Manning gets treated like a star athlete by the press, so that's how he's viewed by most neutral fans.  Brady gets treated more like a celebrity, with candid shots of him going down water slides at a resort, hanging out with Giselle in NYC, and the like.  So while TMZ talks about Brady buying a Leed Certified Hollywood Mansion with Giselle, Manning pops up during the commercials in his uniform and a football in his hand to shill for the shittiest pizza chain in the world that fat slobs all over the nation eat on a weekly basis.  Then, to oblige him, Sports Illustrated will publish a photo of Manning in a hottub with his fucking helmet on (why?), studying plays. 
 
That's how the 6th round draft pick gets turned into the Prima Donna Athlete while Mr. Football From Birth gets a pass.

Ok. I agree with all this.

That wearing the helmet thing in the hot tub... I mean wtf?

Edit: the only thing I was disagreeing with is I felt Brady was pretty available for interviews...but you're probably right that Manning basically makes himself available for almost anything.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Ok. I agree with all this.

That wearing the helmet thing in the hot tub... I mean wtf?

 
So he can hear the calls coming in during practice.
 
There's two notable takeaways for me:
 
1.) He's almost masochistic in his preparation, even to the point where he'll do something like wear a wired helmet in the hot tub to gain a negligible edge.  It's nuts.
2.) He's a grandstander.  This is exhibit 1-A of a guy who has no qualms about displaying for all the world (and cameras) to see just how hard-working/dedicated/invested he is.
 
It comes off as a combination of needless obsessiveness and conscious image-crafting.  Good luck separating the two, but anyone who can't see both factors present is buying heavily into the persona.  

 

[baruch20]

 
Brady doesn't go out of his way to give interviews, do commercials, or buddy-up to the media like Manning does. And when he does do it, he comes across as awkward (holding a goat?  Crying about being picked in the 6th round?  Wearing Uggs?). 
 
Generally speaking, Manning gets treated like a star athlete by the press, so that's how he's viewed by most neutral fans.  Brady gets treated more like a celebrity, with candid shots of him going down water slides at a resort, hanging out with Giselle in NYC, and the like.  So while TMZ talks about Brady buying a Leed Certified Hollywood Mansion with Giselle, Manning pops up during the commercials in his uniform and a football in his hand to shill for the shittiest pizza chain in the world that fat slobs all over the nation eat on a weekly basis.  Then, to oblige him, Sports Illustrated will publish a photo of Manning in a hottub with his fucking helmet on (why?), studying plays. 
 
That's how the 6th round draft pick gets turned into the Prima Donna Athlete while Mr. Football From Birth gets a pass.
 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Isn't Dominoes the official shittiest pizza chain in the world?


I agree that it has gotten to the point of grandstanding.  "Yeah, we know . . . you are the hardest working man in show business.  Now go throw a INT at the end of a close game"
 

 

[Leather]

Papa John is an asshole.

 

[Average Reds]

Papa John is an asshole.

 
When Tom Monaghan sold Dominos Pizza to Bain Capital, Papa John assumed the mantle of Biggest Asshole in Pizza.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

From Simmons' weekly picks column:
 

A Minneapolis reader named Owen sent along a picture called "Mustachioed Peyton Manning from the 1870s!" I don't know where it came from, I don't know how he found it … but WOW!

 

 
And:
 

Joel in Des Moines has a different prediction for Week 17: "Manning goes 15-for-37 with 213 yards passing, 2 TD and 1 INT … that would give him a season completion percentage of 66.6, as well as 666 pass attempts and a Week 17 QB rating of holy smokes — 66.6!

 

[TSC]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10200749/nfl-admits-peyton-manning-td-pass-disallowed-houston-texans-coach-says
 

 
HOUSTON -- Upon further review, Denver quarterback Peyton Manning shouldn't have set the NFL record for touchdown passes in a season last week, Houston Texans interim coach Wade Phillips said Friday.
Phillips said the NFL informed the Texans that Broncos receiver Eric Decker's second touchdown catch from Manning on Sunday shouldn't have counted because Decker was juggling the ball.

 
ASTERISK* (until he throws 4 more TD passes this week).

 

[lars10]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10200749/nfl-admits-peyton-manning-td-pass-disallowed-houston-texans-coach-says
 
 
ASTERISK* (until he throws 4 more TD passes this week).

Aren't all scoring plays reviewed??

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Aaron Schatz of FO, a huge Pats fan, gets a little statistical dig at the Broncos:
 

@FO_ASchatz: Another reminder: DEN 2013 avg defense faced ranked 31st. NE 2007 ranked 11th. DEN 2004 ranked 16th.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

2007 Pats set the record for most points in a season: a crime against humanity.

2013 Broncos break that record: silence.

 

[86spike]

2007 Pats set the record for most points in a season: a crime against humanity.
2013 Broncos break that record: silence.

Why on earth do you still care about this? I do not understand the fixation.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Because it tells volumes about the way the league is covered and promoted.

 

[Reverend]

Why on earth do you still care about this? I do not understand the fixation.

Why on earth do you care that he cares about it?

I do not understand the fixation.

 

[brandonchristensen]

Fuck the Broncos and fuck Peyton

 

[Ralphwiggum]

Fuck the Broncos and fuck Peyton

I agree.

 

[86spike]

Why on earth do you care that he cares about it?
I do not understand the fixation.

I suppose I worry about my fellow SoSHers' happiness.

From an outsider's perspective, Pats fans are lucky to have a team that is not only a paragon of success and consistent excellence, but you just capped off another AFC East title, secured a bye and are clicking on offense despite the absence of your All-World TE.

And yet you are complaining about the media from 6 seasons ago.

Be happy. Enjoy it. Don't sweat the media or the past. You have it better than any other fan base.

Peace on earth, good will towards men.

 

[DJnVa]

And yet you are complaining about the media from 6 seasons ago.
 

 
I think he's complaining more about the media now.

 

[86spike]

I think he's complaining more about the media now.

And my point still stands.

Kumbaya

 

[DJnVa]

And my point still stands.

Kumbaya

 
Why is complaining about the media off-limits?
 
Is this just a "posted in the wrong forum" issue for you or is it more a topic that because you don't care about it, you think no one should?

 

[86spike]

Why is complaining about the media off-limits?
 
Is this just a "posted in the wrong forum" issue for you or is it more a topic that because you don't care about it, you think no one should?

I'm just trying to reinforce positivity for you guys. Let the bad stuff go. Enjoy all your success.

I am enjoying Denver's and you should enjoy NE's.

 

[crystalline]

I'm just trying to reinforce positivity for you guys. Let the bad stuff go. Enjoy all your success.

I am enjoying Denver's and you should enjoy NE's.

Because the media coverage, on this issue and on Spygate, has a huge effect on the Pats' legacy and standing on the all time team/franchise list.

If Brady and the Pats 2004-today got the same level of uniform positivity that Peyton and the Broncos are getting this year, the Pats would easily be considered the best team of all time. What they have done over the past 13 years during the salary cap era is incredible.

Instead the exaggerated negativity around Spygate and running-up-the-score have tarnished their achievements.
That's why Pats fans care.

 

[86spike]

Because the media coverage, on this issue and on Spygate, has a huge effect on the Pats' legacy and standing on the all time team/franchise list.
If Brady and the Pats 2004-today got the same level of uniform positivity that Peyton and the Broncos are getting this year, the Pats would easily be considered the best team of all time. What they have done over the past 13 years during the salary cap era is incredible.
Instead the exaggerated negativity around Spygate and running-up-the-score have tarnished their achievements.
That's why Pats fans care.

I will grant you the negativity exaggeration on Spygate as something that sticks to this day, but seriously guys... No one outside of NE and maybe Jet Fans remember the "running up the score" thing.

I think that explains my disconnect on why this bothers some of you still. It's ancient history out here in the rest of the NFL world. Don't worry about it. No one remembers it.

 

[quint]

I'm just trying to reinforce positivity for you guys. Let the bad stuff go. Enjoy all your success.

I see what you're doing here, and it is appreciated, but this forum is partially for venting.

 

[DJnVa]

I will grant you the negativity exaggeration on Spygate as something that sticks to this day, but seriously guys... No one outside of NE and maybe Jet Fans remember the "running up the score" thing.

I think that explains my disconnect on why this bothers some of you still. It's ancient history out here in the rest of the NFL world. Don't worry about it. No one remembers it.

 
Eh, we're not really "worried". And of course no one remembers. Because the media won't bring up the fact that they bagged on NE for it, because then it would be obvious there's a double standard.