So the whole thing really was about (unsucessfully) scaring Sanchez into actually doing his homework."I know we didn't practice it ..."
So Rex and Sparano lied through their teeth.
Plows thru sons of bitches? He SUCKED running the ball this year.Scrambling quarterbacks are always fun to watch; improvisational plays with athletic quarterbacks--whether they end in picks, long completions, sacks or long runs--are generally more interesting than a Brady or a Manning throwing a six yard checkdown or throwing it out of bounds.
With Tebow specifically he's a really fun runner--he is big and strong as shit, he's like a fast fullback, and he just plows through sons of bitches. He has no business as an NFL quarterback but a play like that run he had to beat the Jets was just awesome.
Nope. It was about selling jerseys and stealing the headlines back from the Giants after they won the superbowl. The entire trade was a PR stunt.So the whole thing really was about (unsucessfully) scaring Sanchez into actually doing his homework.
The NYC part. If you build a winner in NYC, you are building a winner on the world's biggest stage. If you got a decade of success from the Jets the same way the Patriots have gotten a decade of success, you would be one of the most powerful figures in sports.So you have an erratic owner, Rex dug in, no QB, and kid-brother status in NYC. What's to like?
That works: if you can't dominate the red zone, dominate the back page.Nope. It was about selling jerseys and stealing the headlines back from the Giants after they won the superbowl. The entire trade was a PR stunt.
Why? I'm a Jets fan and I would be far from hysterical.If they put him on waivers, I hope the Pats make a claim. That will induce a state of mass hysteria on whatever Jets fans remain.
I think it would cause real grief if the Pats actually picked him up, and actually used him successfully. Turn him into a tight end, and then one day Brady pitches back to Tebow for a gimmick play long bomb to Welker beating Revis deep. That would make jets fans spontaneously barf, and possibly kill fireman Ed.Why? I'm a Jets fan and I would be far from hysterical.
He'd land somewhere as a QB. Saskatchewan, maybe - or Ottawa...I'm not sure about Tebow's cap situation, but if it's not overly burdensome, it would seem to me that Tebow is headed to Cutsville. I'd actually be surprised if he landed anywhere as a QB after that.
They need to lead the league in something besides snacks for Rex!That works: if you can't dominate the red zone, dominate the back page.
Playing QB in the spread in 2011 he was able to scramble well against nickel and dime packages. He certainly wasn't impressive in 2012 as essentially a running back running up the middle against base defenses that expected the run.Plows thru sons of bitches? He SUCKED running the ball this year.
Except that play is more likely to end up as an INT for Revis, or Tebow pulling it down and getting tackled for a 3 yard loss.I think it would cause real grief if the Pats actually picked him up, and actually used him successfully. Turn him into a tight end, and then one day Brady pitches back to Tebow for a gimmick play long bomb to Welker beating Revis deep. That would make jets fans spontaneously barf, and possibly kill fireman Ed.
It's the "successfully" part that doesn't have SB and other Jets fans in mass hysteria. Sense of inevitability maybe, but not hysteria.I think it would cause real grief if the Pats actually picked him up, and actually used him successfully.
He's just Ed.I think it would cause real grief if the Pats actually picked him up, and actually used him successfully. Turn him into a tight end, and then one day Brady pitches back to Tebow for a gimmick play long bomb to Welker beating Revis deep. That would make jets fans spontaneously barf, and possibly kill fireman Ed.
According to Manish Mehta of the New York Daily News, the Jets have now lost a ninth assistant coach in 12 days, with assistant defensive line coach Anthony Weaver leaving to join the Bills.
Talk about the rats fleeing the sinking ship.Yup, 9th assistant/coach to leave in 12 days:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/12/jets-lose-another-assistant-weaver-goes-to-buffalo/related/
.Except that play is more likely to end up as an INT for Revis, or Tebow pulling it down and getting tackled for a 3 yard loss.
What is Tebow's value as a straight TE or FB? Is he any better than a replacement level player at those positions? I doubt it.
Well, if Tebow fully and publically embraces the idea that he is not a realistic option on the QB depth chart, he's certainly find suitors; even if replacement level talent he's got every tiebreaker imaginable.What is Tebow's value as a straight TE or FB? Is he any better than a replacement level player at those positions? I doubt it.
So, I'll be the first person in the entire universe to say this...Well, if Tebow fully and publically embraces the idea that he is not a realistic option on the QB depth chart, he's certainly find suitors; even if replacement level talent he's got every tiebreaker imaginable.
The scary thing is I look at him and I absolutely 110% think that he'd fit right in as a skill player with what the Pats are trying to be on offense. Hell, they could line Brady up in shotgun in between Tebow and Edelman and have the world's first Variable Snap offense. No, not really, but it's hard to deny he's an interesting piece if your goal is one personnel package that can run multiple offensive styles.
First? Not exactly.Well, if Tebow fully and publically embraces the idea that he is not a realistic option on the QB depth chart, he's certainly find suitors; even if replacement level talent he's got every tiebreaker imaginable.
The scary thing is I look at him and I absolutely 110% think that he'd fit right in as a skill player with what the Pats are trying to be on offense. Hell, they could line Brady up in shotgun in between Tebow and Edelman and have the world's first Variable Snap offense. No, not really, but it's hard to deny he's an interesting piece if your goal is one personnel package that can run multiple offensive styles.
Does anyone who says he should play another skill position thinks he can do any of those things now? I think the implicit assumption is that he'd be a project with a lot of potential to successfully make the shift with a good coaching staff. It's not an automatic, although just because he doesn't do those things now doesn't mean he can't learn them.I don't think he has the skill to run block consistently, and I've watch him sneak out for passes and look incredibly awkward when the ball is actually thrown his way (it happened against the Pats).[/b]
There are so many techniques that each player learns by the time they get to the NFL, and it's why players who transition (Edelman) or play two roles (Troy Brown) are so unique and fun to watch. Asking Tim Tebow to play tight end is like asking Jon Lester to play first base. I mean, he's been playing baseball for years, the transition should be easy enough for him, right?
But imagine if it does happen. His NFL career dies and manages to resurrect later on. Could be the greatest story ever told.
Yes. And that is the assumption that KFP is making explicit, addressing directly, and assessing--in this case saying it is likely horseshit--which is exactly how rigorous analysis should be conducted.
I was going to say the failure to do so, assume with a new coach and a different situation means he could succeed sounds like Jets thinking, totally forgetting that, well... awesome.
I think Westhoff's comments yesterday pretty much establish that Tebow's stay with the Jets doesn't come close to a fair test of the hypothesis that he can succeed with proper coaching. Westhoff, no one's idea of a starry-eyed fanboi, also seemed to think there was some talent there.Yes. And that is the assumption that KFP is making explicit, addressing directly, and assessing--in this case saying it is likely horseshit--which is exactly how rigorous analysis should be conducted.
I was going to say the failure to do so, assume with a new coach and a different situation means he could succeed sounds like Jets thinking, totally forgetting that, well... awesome.
The NYC part. If you build a winner in NYC, you are building a winner on the world's biggest stage. If you got a decade of success from the Jets the same way the Patriots have gotten a decade of success, you would be one of the most powerful figures in sports.
It's a mess, but someone will bite. It's New York, man.
Maybe the Jets eventually will just bring back Mike Tannenbaum.
Something has to happen at some point, because Jets owner Woody Johnson is having a hard time finding a new General Manager. Per Jay Glazer of FOX, the team “can’t give the position away.”
Glazer says the Jets are calling back candidates who already have turned them down, asking them to reconsider. Meanwhile, guys they wanted who had other options (like Dave Caldwell and Tom Telesco) opted to go elsewhere.
This is the quote from Westhoff -- I don't think it says what you say it does, but it's a bit ambiguous so hard to say with certainty.
I think that means using as a QB in a read-option type of thing, but not certain. Aside from disagreeing with you about disregarding Westhoff -- I'm guessing Westhoff knows more football than anyone around here and he was on the inside, so I don't see why he'd be dismissed -- I agree on the main point that there's no evidence that Tebow has the profile of being a successful TE or halfback or whatever.if you just say this is a quintessential NFL drop back quarterback, no he's not. He's just not. But if you use him a lot of different facets, in my opinion, I think he's outstanding. If you do that. But we didn't do it.
Here's his great analysis of why the NFL is so unfair:Tim Tebow deserves better than this. He deserves better from the NFL, and he deserves better from you. But worry not -- this is no attempt to convince anyone that you're wrong, because years of experience have shown me that people like you, on stories like this, don't change your mind even when you are dead wrong. And hell, maybe you're not wrong. Maybe I'm dead wrong, me and the zealots who have fallen in love with Tebow over the past few years. Maybe we're the problem here.
Actually, I know we are.
Tebow is being run out of the league because the league is sick of us. See, what's happening to Tim Tebow is happening because of people like me, people who love writing about Tebow and talking about Tebow and obsessing over Tebow.
Tebow never got the chance to prove otherwise. Look, his 8-6 starting record is misleading, and we all know it, but at the same time it happened. His track record as a starter is that of a guy who wins. However it happens, it happens.
Brady Quinn's record as an NFL starter is 4-16. Bruce Gradkowski is 6-14. Matt Leinart, 8-10.
Tim Tebow is 8-6.
Kellen Clemens is 4-8. Chad Henne, 14-23. The brothers McCown, Luke and Josh, are a combined 15-27.
Tim Tebow is 8-6.
Tyler Thigpen is 1-12.
Those guys will have a job in 2013 if they want it. So will Tebow, I guess, if he switches to tight end. That way, when Matt Leinart drops back and throws it to him, at least a real quarterback with a real quarterback's throwing motion will be bouncing the ball in the dirt.
But why would you do these things? How is it worth the effort?I got this stupid tagline for insisting that IF someone were to build an offense around what he does well, Tebow would win games. He is not a traditional QB, he is a bad fit in a West Coast offensive system (for example), he does not have great mechanics, etc. His limitations are known and are boring. His lack of sharp edges, his "round peg in a square hole" issues are known, and boring. Everyone fixates on what they think he cannot do.
Fact is, the Patriots OC - one of the "bright young minds" in the game - thought he could use Tebow's strengths. Could be that Josh McDaniels is an idiot who cannot evaluate talent. But the fact is that McDaniels has earned a reputation as an offensive coach and he thought Tebow had usable strengths. Some other coach will, too. If you built a roster maximized to hide Tebow's weaknesses and emphasize his strengths, he'd win games. Whereas if you maximized a roster for Blaine Gabbert, you'd still finish 3-13. All the words wasted on Tebow as "terrible" and very little about how conclusively, indisputably awful Blaine Gabbert was as a QB. Maybe because Blaine Gabbert doesn't have a fan club and the resulting backlash from who dislike the fan club?
This jackass thinks that Tebow is getting run out of the league simply because a lot of people like talking about him:
Here's his great analysis of why the NFL is so unfair:
He hasn't been great or even very good, but he's been special.
Trevor Matich also says hello.Tebow could never convert to another position!
Sincerly
Rick Ankiel
While incredibly rare.....athletes at their level are amazing. Who knows with the right opportunity he very much could convert to a non Qb role.
Michael Robinson out of Penn State was a good QB (5th in voting for 2005 Heisman) who has turned himself into a Pro Bowl back for Seattle:Tebow could never convert to another position!
Sincerly
Rick Ankiel
While incredibly rare.....athletes at their level are amazing. Who knows with the right opportunity he very much could convert to a non Qb role.
I think I covered this as thoroughly as possible in the 2011 Broncos thread. If you're interested, it's probably about 5 pages deep in the archives by now.I'm not sure what world Tebow would win games in. What system would you run? What other players would you get to compliment him? It's easy to say "draw up a gameplan to maximize his strengths and hide his weaknesses!" What is it?
Really? The 10th pick of the draft is "dispensable"? Gabbert is a massive bust at a position littered with busts. And bust, in this case, means "cannot play in or win games". Let's not get into a semantics discussion about what the Jets were doing and why Rex was doing it and stick with actual results.Say what you want about Gabbert, but one of his virtues is his dispensability. You bring him in, try him out, and if he sucks, you turn the page without having morphed the organization to suit him.
Every single one of those guys is running an adapted college offensive scheme, well. RGIII & Newton were both explicitly, per their coach's words, running a system that was adapted to them, their aptitude and skill set. Kaepernick is running a modified (read: slimmed down) version of the run-heavy offensive scheme they installed for Alex Smith - one that incorporated many of the things Smith - a QB reared in Urban Meyer's spread system - did well. Wilson also ran an adapted college scheme and had the passing scheme adapted to fit his needs.All of the things Tebow does well other QBs -- KAP, RGIII, Wilson, Newton -- do exceptionally well. The things that Tebow does horribly, they do well. And don't go the intangibles route because although Tebow may have them over Newton, the first three above, judged on their first year, are smart as hell and fine leaders.
And none of them has a winning record as a starting QB in the NFL, nor an NFL playoff win. And every single one of them will need to have the system "morphed" to fit what particular skills that player brings to the table.There are people like Wilson (I didn't say as good) in the college pipline. There are more conventional college QBs as well.
Be sure to take precautions against a Scanners-like incident when/if McDaniels gets BB to counter-sign his mistake into a Patriots uniform.As for McDaniels, he plainly made a mistake.
Yeah, on second thought, probably the only thing worse than reading such stupidity would be to go searching for it.I think I covered this as thoroughly as possible in the 2011 Broncos thread. If you're interested, it's probably about 5 pages deep in the archives by now.
According to Brian Costello of the New York Post, New York Giants director of college scouting Marc Ross has pulled his name out of contention for the job.
Ross reportedly interviewed for the job last week before deciding he didn’t want to pursue the job further. Ross was one of nine candidates to have been linked to the job.
Deal. Let's revert to the starter. New Yorker's effort this week to explain sunk cost to a literate, non-football audience:Can we just stop talking about a backup QB at this point? I mean, it's obvious that he'll never be anything more than a gimmick QB who occasionally squeaks out a diamond. There are so many more interesting things about the Jets at this point; for example, the moles on Rex Ryan's body. Or anything else.
Everybody gets the logic behind the extension wrong and I'm not quite sure why--it's pretty obvious when you look at the numbers. Of course expecting the New Yorker to get football right is like hoping you'll get good opera criticism from football outsiders.Deal. Let's revert to the starter. New Yorker's effort this week to explain sunk cost to a literate, non-football audience:
http://www.newyorker...talk_surowiecki
The interesting aspect of this to me is not the present problem but the double down on Sanchez last year.
The article suggests, accurately I think, that the problem won't be sorted out until there is a new guy in charge who doesn't carry responsibility for the earlier decision and can look at the situation objectively. The dilemma is shown above. No one you'd really like to have will take the job -- even though it's only 1 of 32 and even though it's in NYC -- primarily because of the Woody/Rex combo.