2014 Bengals: Can They Finally Win a Playoff Game?

Rudy's Curve

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2006
2,333
[SIZE=10.5pt]The Bengals come into 2014 with again one of the league's most talented rosters but also some serious questions as they look for their first playoff win in 24 years. There were obvious extenuating circumstances in the Pittsburgh playoff loss and they were the inferior team against the Jets and both times against the Texans, but there's no rationalizing what happened against last year. This year becomes another playoff win-or-bust year and Marvin Lewis may need one to keep his job. Most people wonder how he's lasted 11 years with a .500 record and no playoff wins, but he had to deal with a stacked deck (Mike Brown) against him for the first eight years and he's been a big part of wrestling personnel control away from Brown since 2011. He certainly has his flaws, but he's definitely a net positive and the Bengals are probably not going to find a better coach.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]Andy Dalton had his best season statistically last year, but also threw interceptions at a very high rate (3.4%) and was absolutely abominable in the playoff loss. His flaws also consistently get exposed against upper-echelon defenses. Unfortunately, the coaching staff continues to back him at every opportunity and an extension seems like a possibility. Hopefully his demands are unreasonable and Brown takes a hard line, because they're likely doomed for more years of good but not good enough if he's extended. I also hope that the switch in coordinators masks his flaws - Jay Gruden did some good things, but he became way too pass-happy at times (Dalton dropped back 615 times last year) considering the personnel and inexplicably stopped running the ball in the playoff game when they were having success. Hue Jackson is committed to a power running game and is one of the best offensive minds in the league - the Bengals are extremely lucky to still have him because he should have been someone's coordinator the second the Raiders fired him. Ideally, Dalton's attempts will be curbed and the running game will open up high-percentage throws and deep shots to A.J. Green and Marvin Jones. I expect them to take a QB in the middle rounds, but he's not going to be a threat to Dalton and probably won't project as a starter anyways. It would be outstanding if Bridgewater fell to 24 and they couldn't pass him up, although I don't expect that to happen.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]Lewis said he envisions a second-year growth for Gio Bernard similar to that of Ray Rice. Rice went from 107 carries and 34 catches his rookie year to 254 and 78 in his sophomore season. The two are built similarly with similar skill sets, so it wouldn't be shocking for Bernard to match Rice's second year. Rice averaged 5.3 YPC that year which will be tough to match, but the Bengals have a strong offensive line and Jackson is excellent with the running game - Darren McFadden averaged 5.3 YPC the two seasons Hue was with the Raiders and 3.55 the rest of his career. BJGE has predictably been a plodder who hasn't found life as easy without Brady and seven-men boxes. He really shouldn't be any more than a change-of-pace back.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]Green has been a top receiver since he came into the league and would probably be viewed closer to Calvin Johnson if he had a better quarterback - he's been open deep countless times the last three years only to have Dalton miss him. Jones really came on last year (11th in DYAR despite splitting time because he was third in DVOA) and will hopefully finally have all the outside snaps to himself after sharing them with the much inferior Mohamed Sanu. Sanu will be the full-time slot man since the Bengals inexplicably didn't offer Andrew Hawkins another $750k which would've cost a team a second-rounder to sign him and the Browns signed him with no compensation. He's too slow to beat man coverage on the outside, but Sanu's size (6'2, 210) and ability to make catches in traffic should make him an asset there.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]The Bengals will run a lot of two-TE sets with Jermaine Gresham and Tyler Eifert. Gresham is dominant at times in the running game and is tough to bring down, but never regained the explosiveness he had in college after an ACL tear while taking way too many penalties and making too many mental mistakes. Although Eifert didn't do much last year, the Bengals are notoriously slow in bringing along rookies and he wasn't overmatched as a blocker. His role should grow considerably this year and he has the ability to win jump balls which will give Dalton another option in the red zone.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]The offensive line has long been a strength of the Bengals. Andrew Whitworth and Andre Smith are arguably the best pair of tackles in the league. LG Clint Boling was solid before going down with a torn ACL last December while RG Kevin Zeitler probably hasn’t delivered a first-round return for a guard yet but is still above-average. Kyle Cook used to be an average to above center, but hasn’t been the same since a 2012 preseason ankle injury and was released last month. Mike Pollak, who played well filling in for Zeitler last year, is probably the favorite for that spot although he could shift to LG depending on Boling’s recovery. The Bengals also signed Marshall Newhouse to fill the swing tackle role vacated when the longtime underrated Anthony Collins signed with Tampa Bay.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]The biggest reason the Bengals have been in the playoffs the last three years has been the excellent and deep defensive line. Star DT Geno Atkins should be ready to go for camp after tearing his ACL midway through last year. LE Carlos Dunlap has been excellent rushing the passer from day one and has continued to improve in the running game. NT Domata Peko is a little overrated as he offers no pass rush and is only okay in the running game. Hopefully Brandon Thompson, who was excellent filling in for Atkins last year but is more of a nose tackle than a penetrator, sees more snaps at Peko’s expense. The Bengals will take a hit with RE Michael Johnson signing with Tampa Bay, but Wallace Gilberry has done an admirable job since they picked him up off the street at the start of 2012 and he’ll be joined there by 2013 second-rounder Margus Hunt. DT Devon Still, who has been a little bit of a disappointment as a 2012 second-rounder, should provide decent depth along with Robert Geathers.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]Vontaze Burfict did an excellent job learning to play WILL on the fly in 2012 and then took the next step in 2013 to become one of the best linebackers in the league. Rey Maualuga is still a liability in the middle but is thankfully taken out in nickel situations. James Harrison did a good job last year and was still excellent against the run, but was phased out of a lot of games with offenses going three-wide and the team decided to move in a younger direction. That leaves Emmanuel Lamur, Sean Porter and Jayson DiManche as the favorites to claim the SAM spot. I’m a big Lamur fan – he’s a converted college safety who flashed in 2012 after coming up from the practice squad before being lost for the season last year with a dislocated shoulder in the preseason. He’s bulked up to 240, has long range at 6'4 and can play in any situation.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]The secondary is one of the bigger question marks and may be where the Bengals feel the loss of Mike Zimmer most, as he’s a secondary coach by trade and resurrected the careers of Terence Newman, Adam Jones and Chris Crocker among many others. Top CB Leon Hall is coming off his second torn Achilles in October but plans to be back for camp. Although Newman is going to be 36 by the start of the year, he’s done a very solid job in the two years he’s been in Cincinnati. Jones has also done a very good job on the outside in three-WR sets when Hall moves inside and when called upon to be a starter. Dre Kirkpatrick has been a little bit of a disappointment as a first-rounder two years ago as he’s struggled to get on the field, but has shown flashes and will be counted upon for a bigger role this year. The Bengals are also widely projected to take a corner with their first-rounder at #24. At safety, Reggie Nelson and George Iloka did a very solid job and they signed Danieal Manning, who should provide quality depth there and in the slot.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]After a disaster in 2010, the Bengals have had consistently above-average special teams as they’ve been able to have continuity led by Cedric Peerman and Vincent Rey. Hawkins will definitely be missed here as he was an excellent gunner. Brandon Tate has become a much better punt returner, but his kick returning leaves a lot to be desired. Kicker Mike Nugent and punter Kevin Huber are solid if unspectacular.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]With the loss of Zimmer and playing a first-place schedule including a game in Foxboro and having to go to New Orleans, it will probably be tough for the Bengals to win 11 games again. However, the season can definitely be a success if Dalton finds a way to take the next step and they finally get that elusive playoff win.[/SIZE]
 

SeoulSoxFan

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2006
22,100
A Scud Away from Hell
As with the Eagles thread, a tremendous start here RC. 
 
I thought the Bengals scared teams the least in the playoffs, mainly due to Dalton's play. This is a concern that won't be fixed anytime soon -- Cinci was rated #1 pass blocking team by PFF, with a ton of weapons around him.
 
Unless Eifert raises his game this year (-1.8 PFF grade) I think Dalton struggles again. Would it be shocking to see a QB picked in the first 2 rounds? 
 

jsinger121

@jsinger121
SoSH Member
Jul 25, 2005
17,681
As long as they have Marvin Lewis as a coach and Andy Dalton the QB I won't fear them at all.
 

Rudy's Curve

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2006
2,333
SeoulSoxFan said:
As with the Eagles thread, a tremendous start here RC. 
 
I thought the Bengals scared teams the least in the playoffs, mainly due to Dalton's play. This is a concern that won't be fixed anytime soon -- Cinci was rated #1 pass blocking team by PFF, with a ton of weapons around him.
 
Unless Eifert raises his game this year (-1.8 PFF grade) I think Dalton struggles again. Would it be shocking to see a QB picked in the first 2 rounds? 
 
Unfortunately, I think it would be. The coaching staff has constantly backed him and it seems they're going to try to work on an extension. Brown is a notoriously tough negotiator, so hopefully they can't work something out because I'd much rather see a reset there than the status quo. I guess I'll be delusional enough for the time being that with Jones as the fulltime #2 and growth from Bernard and Eifert, even Dalton can't mess that up. I also think the switch in coordinators will help - I'm a Hue Jackson fanboy, but they threw way too many times last year and Dalton needs to be set up with more high-percentage throws, not more volume. I think a QB in the middle rounds is more likely, although I'd kill for them to grab Bridgewater if he fell but that's probably a pipe dream on multiple fronts.
 
I think Eifert is a good bet to raise his game. He struggled at times, but I thought he held his own blocking and the Bengals are generally very slow to bring rookies along. With the loss of Hawkins and no real FB, they should be playing a lot of 12 personnel this year which will give him a consistent role.
 

Rudy's Curve

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2006
2,333
The Bengals filled some needs although some picks appear to be underwhelming. However, it's two days after the draft so no one really knows.
 
Darqueze Dennard fits their scheme as a press corner and will be needed with age (Terence Newman, Adam Jones), health (Leon Hall) and effectiveness (Dre Kirkpatrick) questions in the secondary. As Super Nomario said in the draft thread, his arm length is a little concerning for a press corner, but they're only a half inch shorter than Hall's. He should get plenty of work this year and then be a starter next year.
 
Jeremy Hill was a little bit of a surprise at #55, but it signals that they plan to run the ball with volume and really scale back Dalton's attempts which I'm fine with. Hue Jackson has an excellent track record with running games and Hill should be a pretty sizable upgrade on BJGE, who should and likely will be cut either before camp or at final cuts.
 
Third-rounder Will Clarke has already drawn comparisons to Michael Johnson for his size and length, but it took Johnson until his fourth year to be an effective player and Clarke needs to get a lot stronger. He'll likely redshirt this year. The Bengals traded up for only the third time in their history to select Russell Bodine in the fourth round. He benched 42 reps at the combine and will be in the mix to start at center, but failed to get to the second level with regularity at North Carolina as he isn't particularly agile.
 
A.J. McCarron is likely only a future backup and it unfortunately signals that the organization is behind Dalton, at least for now. Sixth-rounder Marquis Flowers should add some value as a utility linebacker and on special teams when he's up with the big club. Seventh-rounder James Wright fell off the map this year at LSU and is likely only a practice squad body, while seventh-rounder Lavelle Westbrooks is a CB/S tweener.
 
Assuming they somehow get through camp completely healthy, which won't happen, here's my crack at the 53.
 
QB (3): Andy Dalton, Jason Campbell, A.J. McCarron
RB (4): Giovani Bernard, Jeremy Hill, Rex Burkhead, Cedric Peerman
WR (6): A.J. Green, Marvin Jones, Mohamed Sanu, Dane Sanzenbacher, Brandon Tate, Cobi Hamilton
TE (3): Jermaine Gresham, Tyler Eifert, Orson Charles (H-B)
OL (9): Andrew Whitworth, Clint Boling, Mike Pollak, Kevin Zeitler, Andre Smith, Marshall Newhouse, Tanner Hawkinson, Russell Bodine, Trevor Robinson
 
DL (9): Carlos Dunlap, Geno Atkins, Domata Peko, Margus Hunt, Wallace Gilberry, Devon Still, Brandon Thompson, Will Clarke, Robert Geathers
LB (6): Vontaze Burfict, Rey Maualuga, Emmanuel Lamur, Sean Porter, Jayson DiManche, Vincent Rey
DB (10): Leon Hall, Reggie Nelson, George Iloka, Terence Newman, Adam Jones, Dre Kirkpatrick, Darqueze Dennard, Danieal Manning, Taylor Mays, Shawn Williams
 
ST (3): Mike Nugent, Kevin Huber, Clark Harris
 
 

Rudy's Curve

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2006
2,333
The Bengals picked up a huge road win in Baltimore yesterday. After taking a 15-0 lead on five FGs, the Ravens stormed back to take a 16-15 lead in the middle of the fourth when Adam Jones let Steve Smith get behind him on a broken play on 3rd and 14 deep in Ravens territory. The Bengals responded on a 77 yard bomb to A.J. Green and the defense held on the final drive to preserve a big win. Unfortunately, it came at a cost as Tyler Eifert dislocated his elbow (he was having a big day up to that point) and Vontaze Burfict suffered a concussion.
 
Some other notes:
  • Dalton took a big step forward - no turnovers or sacks and 7.9 YPA against a tough defense in a really tough place to play and a big throw with the game on the line.
  • Gio Bernard only averaged 3.4 YPC but they got him the ball in space (6-62 receiving).
  • As mentioned, Eifert was having a great day before he went down. His versatility is a real weapon and he's definitely going to be missed. It also really screwed the game plan since they play a ton of two-TE with him there.
  • Pass protection was outstanding - Andrew Whitworth and Andre Smith are probably the best pair of tackles in the league and rookie center Russell Bodine had a penalty but mostly held his own against Ngata.
  • The line didn't get a ton of pressure but came through with the game on the line. Eugene Monroe is a very good tackle but I was hoping for a little more against supposed turnstile RT Rick Wagner. Wallace Gilberry continues to produce after being picked up on the street two years ago.
  • Emmanuel Lamur had a big pick and was solid in the run game. At 6'4, 240 with great speed for a LB, he's going to be a real weapon that they really missed last year.
  • Aside from the one Adam Jones blip, the secondary was excellent. They benefited from a few drops, but held Flacco to 5.6 YPA without a great pass rush.
  • Special teams was good for the most part - Adam Jones had a long punt return (he's a real weapon there) and Mike Nugent was 5/6 on FGs. Unfortunately, the miss was a block and they allowed one decent Jacoby Jones kick return.
With Atlanta and Tennessee at home on deck before the bye, they need to get to 3-0 heading into Foxboro.
 

Rudy's Curve

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2006
2,333
The Bengals rolled to a ho-hum 24-10 win over the Falcons Sunday. Unfortunately, the injuries continued to pile up as they lost Green, Burfict and RG Kevin Zeitler during the game. Green should be back for New England if he doesn't play this week while Burfict's status is unknown and Zeitler appears to have suffered a multiweek injury. As for the game, they were able to run the ball voluminously and effectively enough against a soft Falcons front seven. Gio Bernard only averaged 3.3 YPC but made two huge plays in the passing game and has become a great option on short swing passes while Jeremy Hill got his first extended snaps and made the most of them (15-74-1, 2-22) - he's a real bruiser between the tackles and can make plays in the passing game too. Dalton missed a couple throws early but still has not taken a sack or turned the ball over and has averaged 9.1 YPA so far. Defensively, it was an excellent performance as they didn't allow White and Jones anything after the catch and were in Ryan's face all day - Dunlap predictably destroyed fill-in RT Lamar Holmes. The special teams were okay as they allowed Hester a couple decent kick returns but held him in check as a punt returner. The playoff egg probably makes this ring hollow but they've now won 10 straight regular season home games by over 16 points a game.
 
Even likely without Green and Zeitler, they really need to a pick up a win at home against a Titans team they should run all over before an early bye.
 

Rudy's Curve

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2006
2,333
As expected, the Bengals dominated an inferior Titans team 33-7, although Tennessee's ineptitude had a lot to do with it. Still, it was impressive given the characteristics of a trap game (a lot of national recognition for a team that's not used to it, playing a bad team going into a bye with a big game after that) that they didn't succumb to it as they have in the past. Dalton didn't play a great game, but was efficient enough despite throwing his first interception of the year which was a catchable ball off Bernard's hands. The offensive line continues to dominate in pass protection as they still have not given up a sack this year and stoned Derrick Morgan who came into the game hot. The running game could see some improvement though as Bernard isn't really a natural between the tackles runner - I'd like to see more of Jeremy Hill, as he only has one negative carry and is almost always getting at least four yards. Green showed no ill effects from his ligament strain in his foot as he whipped the Titans' corners repeatedly. Defensively, Carlos Dunlap continues to be a monster - he's gotten consistent pressure his whole career and he's finally turning it into more sacks - and they were able to adjust without Burfict. Leon Hall continues to be insanely underrated - with Atkins still working his way back, he's probably the best player on a top-five defense and played another great game. They've also gotten great play in the punting game as they downed two more punts inside the five.
 
Health-wise, Marvin Lewis said everyone on the active roster with the exception of Kevin Zeitler should be back for New England in two weeks. The Bengals have shit the bed in primetime a lot under Lewis and the Patriots never lose at home, so this will be a pretty big test. At least they'll be coming off a bye while New England has a short week.
 

Rudy's Curve

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2006
2,333
Well, that sucked. Losing is never fun and I could have lived with a tight loss, but it's pretty disappointing when the game is over on the opening drive. The Patriots heard all week about how they might be done and responded accordingly while the Bengals heard all week about their primetime woes and got crushed.
 
Dalton's final numbers look okay but he missed a big throw to Bernard early in the game that might have gone for a TD and couldn't get the ball to Green on the few occasions he beat Revis. You just can't miss those throws on the road against good teams. He also had trouble getting two plays in and they went nowhere since they were hurried. The running game was never able to get going due to the game flow - I'd still like to have seen them make more of an attempt as that's probably NE's weakness and their best chance at sustaining drives. Gresham can't be gone soon enough as he dropped an easy TD - this offense is going to function a lot better when Eifert and Jones come back.
 
Defensively, they were totally overmatched against the Patriots' tempo. The run defense continues to be a weakness as Peko (the most overrated player on the planet) was beaten repeatedly at the point of attack like he is in every playoff/primetime game (and most others for that matter). The linebackers really struggled in both facets as Lamur had his worst game and they had no answer for Gronkowski - they obviously missed Burfict a lot, especially with getting the defense set. In the secondary, Hall had an uncharacteristically bad game with missed tackles and was beaten deep by Edelman where Brady just missed. On special teams, Tate's debacle speaks for itself although Lewis blamed the lack of yardage more on the blocking. 
 
As much as that sucked, they're still 3-1 with a favorable stretch coming up (CAR, at IND, BAL, JAX, CLE) before a tough final seven games. They really need to get to 7-2 at worst by then. Unfortunately, everything is going to be met with skepticism until they win a big primetime or playoff game. 
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
43,969
Here
Pacman Jones with the classy "We should have won the game. There were 2 seconds left, had a chance to win. Do. Your. Job." He also said "We work hard to miss shit like that!"

Of course, Jones and his defense gave up 37 points, and earlier in the OT Jones got beaten by Cotchery for a TD only to see Cotchery drop the ball, but fuck that kicker!

This link only has partial quotes, but the video is on NFLN.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/week-6-wrap-adam-pacman-jones-yells-do-your-job-kicker-mike-nugent-pressure-builds-bengals-101214
 

LondonSox

Robert the Deuce
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
8,956
North Bay California
What the hell happened to this defense. Looked like the best (or one of) into their bye, and they've come out and crapped all over themselves and this time against the Panthers? I mean a team with no running backs, a beaten up TE and a rookie WR and a beat up Cam Newton.
 
I mean thanks for the 33 fantasy points for Cam but what the hell?
 

Stitch01

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
18,155
Boston
They freed Newton on the read option in the second half and the Bengals had no clue how to adjust.
 

LondonSox

Robert the Deuce
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
8,956
North Bay California
Stitch01 said:
They freed Newton on the read option in the second half and the Bengals had no clue how to adjust.
Yeah why would they expect that and prepare for it?
 
So a freak event of bad preparation after the Pats whooping?
 

Stitch01

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
18,155
Boston
Dose of Marvin Lewis combined with a dash of Andy Dalton turning what was about to be a 20-10 or 24-10 game into 17-17 with a critical error.
 
Same as it ever was.
 

JCizzle

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 11, 2006
20,608
So, these are really fucking gross. Both guys coming off ankle injuries:
 

 

 
I wonder if he's another one who will get fined less than Kaepernick did for wearing the wrong headphones. 
 

Super Nomario

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2000
14,013
Mansfield MA
JCizzle said:
So, these are really fucking gross. Both guys coming off ankle injuries:
 

 

 
I wonder if he's another one who will get fined less than Kaepernick did for wearing the wrong headphones. 
What's a fair suspension for this kind of shit? Two games? Four games? The rest of the season? He's deliberately trying to injure players.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,314
How in the world anyone thinks they can get away with that with millions of people watching through dozens of cameras is beyond me.  I hadn't heard of this till now; is it getting play?
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
51,481
JCizzle said:
So, these are really fucking gross. Both guys coming off ankle injuries:
 

 

 
I wonder if he's another one who will get fined less than Kaepernick did for wearing the wrong headphones. 
 
"We did not see the tape."
 

soxfan121

JAG
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
23,043
I'd suspend Burfict four games and issue a memo to all clubs that any offense by any player in the future will also result in an organizational fine. 
 
Deliberately trying to injure an opponent cannot be tolerated. 
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
43,969
Here
This is exactly what Bountygate was all about, I suspect he'll get at least 2 games.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,325
Hingham, MA
Yesterday's tie reminded me of something that happened last year with the Bengals. After jumping out to a 6-2 record, including a win over the Pats that put them in the driver's seat for a first round bye, they went into Miami on a Thursday night and couldn't finish off the win (had a 20-17 lead with 1:30 left before losing in OT). The day after the game this article was written; the title was "Loss changes little for grinding Bengals". I understood what the writer was trying to say - that you couldn't write the Bengals off due to one bad loss - but when they keep on giving away games like that, it is hard to get to the next level. The loss actually changed a TON for the Bengals - had they held on, they would have had a bye and the two seed instead of facing a hot SD team in the wild card game.
 
Given the strength of the Pats, Indy, SD, and Denver, giving away games like yesterday's is probably going to cost them seeding and a real chance for a deep playoff run.
 

Soxy

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2008
6,095
LondonSox said:
Yeah why would they expect that and prepare for it?
 
So a freak event of bad preparation after the Pats whooping?
 
In fairness to Cinci, Cam hasn't run like that in a looooooong time.  Carolina has moved away from the read option in an attempt to protect Cam and make him more of a pocket passer.  Which is a big part of why their offense hasn't looked all that great in awhile.
 
Through his first two seasons Cam averaged 7.9 carries per game.  That dropped to 6.9 last season.  In his first 4 games this year he had 14 carries for 42 yards, averaging 3.5 rushes a game.  To put that number in perspective, the fewest carries he had in a game before 2014 was four, something he had done five times in 48 games.  To say they've discouraged Cam from running the ball would be an understatement (though his injury is surely contributing to that as well).
 
I don't think anyone anticipated him running the ball that much on Sunday.  I think it's more of a credit to the Panthers for making a smart adjustment during the game than it was a failure of preparation on the part of Cincinnati.  Perhaps they underestimated how effective Cam could be running the ball, but they game planned for what they had seen on film this season.  Which isn't what they got, at least in the second half and in OT.
 

LondonSox

Robert the Deuce
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
8,956
North Bay California
Soxy Brown said:
 
In fairness to Cinci, Cam hasn't run like that in a looooooong time.  Carolina has moved away from the read option in an attempt to protect Cam and make him more of a pocket passer.  Which is a big part of why their offense hasn't looked all that great in awhile.
 
Through his first two seasons Cam averaged 7.9 carries per game.  That dropped to 6.9 last season.  In his first 4 games this year he had 14 carries for 42 yards, averaging 3.5 rushes a game.  To put that number in perspective, the fewest carries he had in a game before 2014 was four, something he had done five times in 48 games.  To say they've discouraged Cam from running the ball would be an understatement (though his injury is surely contributing to that as well).
 
I don't think anyone anticipated him running the ball that much on Sunday.  I think it's more of a credit to the Panthers for making a smart adjustment during the game than it was a failure of preparation on the part of Cincinnati.  Perhaps they underestimated how effective Cam could be running the ball, but they game planned for what they had seen on film this season.  Which isn't what they got, at least in the second half and in OT.
 
I would say that he hasn't been running this season due to injury, primarily. So at the point he felt healthy (if) there was always a risk.
I'm not sure how a well prepared team doesn't have at least a plan for if they go back to something that they have done actively for a couple of years.
 
I agree with your points that this year he hasn't, and maybe they were prepared but the Panthers just executed well.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
43,969
Here
Only one question remains: Will Roger Goodell be granted access to the tapes?
 

singaporesoxfan

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2004
11,882
Washington, DC
Marciano490 said:
 
There's still no evidence anyone in Goodell's office has seen them. 
 
NFL press officer: "We called Carolina to get the video, but we were told they did not have any tapes"
(Handed sheet of paper)
"Wait a minute, there are two Carolinas?"
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,314
singaporesoxfan said:
 
NFL press officer: "We called Carolina to get the video, but we were told they did not have any tapes"
(Handed sheet of paper)
"Wait a minute, there are two Carolinas?"
 
Amazing work.  I guess we'll just have to wait for North Carolina to go bankrupt so some civil employee sells the tape to TMZ.
 

RIrooter09

Alvin
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2008
7,265
Marciano490 said:
Only a $25k fine for Burfict?  Seems horribly light.
 
 
That's $15k more than the fine for wearing the wrong head phones.  Clearly the NFL was looking to make a statement here about player safety. 
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
43,969
Here
The act of intentionally trying to injure someone is only really wrong when you're paid to do it, ie you open up the NFL to lawsuits.
 

LondonSox

Robert the Deuce
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
8,956
North Bay California
Results based as always.
No one hurt so no real penalty.
 
If someone gets hurt they'll throw the book. The NFL only cares about results (visible results)
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,325
Hingham, MA
If I'm Newton, Olsen, Rivera, or Jerry Richardson, I am demanding a meeting with Goodell asking why they don't consider it to be a more serious offense. If I'm one of those players it could cost me millions; if I'm the coach, it could cost me one of my best players; ditto the owner, and losing a great player for the owner would likely cost them a lot of money as well. Goodell answers to the owners, and if I'm Richardson I am SEETHING.
 

soxfan121

JAG
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
23,043
tims4wins said:
If I'm Newton, Olsen, Rivera, or Jerry Richardson, I am demanding a meeting with Goodell asking why they don't consider it to be a more serious offense. If I'm one of those players it could cost me millions; if I'm the coach, it could cost me one of my best players; ditto the owner, and losing a great player for the owner would likely cost them a lot of money as well. Goodell answers to the owners, and if I'm Richardson I am SEETHING.
 
You're kidding right? Greg Hardy says Jerry "Humanitarian of the Year" Richardson knows how this stuff works.
 

Rudy's Curve

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2006
2,333
Well, that was embarrassing. I thought the Patriots game would be the wake-up call, but apparently it hasn't happened. Although they were really banged up and I expected to lose, that was still an extremely disappointing effort as they didn't even pick up a first down until less than a minute to go in the half. With Green and Eifert out and Jones done, there's nobody to stretch the field. They're also not getting any push in the running game and Dalton isn't good enough to make up for all of that, so it's a pretty tough combination to deal with. Andre Smith had an uncharacteristically terrible game and Gresham had a characteristically terrible game - in a franchise history full of disappointment, he's one of the biggest ones and I can't wait until he's gone next year. In addition, rookie center Russell Bodine just does not look like an NFL player at this point. Thankfully it appears that Green will be back for the big game against Baltimore next week.
 
Defensively, they continue to be a mess as the run defense remains atrocious. It was likely going to be a long day to begin with without Maualuga and Lamur and it was cemented when Burfict went down which left a unit of Vinny Rey, Marquis Flowers and Jayson DiManche - that's two undrafted guys and a sixth rounder. The vaunted depth they used to have on the defensive line is gone as Atkins isn't back to full strength, Peko is cooked and Margus Hunt hasn't taken the step forward they needed him to with Michael Johnson departing. They've also really missed Brandon Thompson who's stout against the run and takes a lot of snaps away from Peko - Lewis said he's returning to practice this week so hopefully he'll play Sunday. If there are any bright spots from yesterday, Adam Jones had his best game of the year and Dunlap continues to be a force.
 
Although the last three games have been far from ideal, thankfully the hot start allowed them to at least absorb it. A win Sunday puts them back in the division lead (albeit by percentage points) and they really need to win the next three games (both home against Jacksonville and Cleveland following Baltimore) to still have a shot at a bye. On the other hand, a loss puts them two back of the Ravens and drawing pretty slim for the division. Fortunately, the game is in Cincinnati where the Bengals are much better and the Ravens are a much worse road team. As long as guys who have a shot of playing do (Green, Burfict, Lamur, Thompson and Hall who left and didn't return yesterday with a back strain), I think they get it done.
 

Rudy's Curve

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2006
2,333
That was an absolutely pivotal win yesterday to complete the sweep of the Ravens and put them back in the division lead. Unfortunately, the tie renders the tiebreaker useless but of course I'll still take the two-game swing. Dalton had a horrific fumble up six late where he should have just taken a sack and missed a wide open Greg Little for a TD that would've essentially iced the game but played well otherwise, especially on the final drive. Sanu has been one of the most improved players in the league - although he still struggles against press coverage, he has been able to win a lot on the outside where he hasn't before, including a critical 53-yard catch on 3rd and 10 to keep the final drive alive. Little was the unsung hero with two big catches and he would've had another big conversion if not for a dubious holding penalty and was wide open for the aforementioned clinching TD where Dalton missed him. Getting open has never really been his issue, so if they're able to curb the drops and maximize his talent they may actually have a decent three receiver set when Green comes back. The running game predictably didn't have a ton of success against a stout Ravens front, but they were able to run it enough to keep them in manageable third downs.
 
The defense showed some signs of improvement yesterday holding Flacco to a pretty terrible game, although the run defense continued to show leaks as the Ravens consistently moved the ball on the ground and Taliaferro was untouched on both his touchdowns. The biggest development was Atkins looking like himself for the first time this year - that's a huge boost if they can get that consistently going forward. Dunlap's effort may be inconsistent from time to time, but he's always been a monster closing games with his pass rush and continued to be so yesterday. Obviously the game was nearly lost, but it was a pretty clear push-off by Smith (Pereira agrees) and thankfully the officiating crew had the guts to make the right call.
 
With Jacksonville next week and a Thursday night game with Cleveland coming up (both at home), they really need to get to 6-2-1 before the three straight road games that start the tough home stretch.
 

Rudy's Curve

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2006
2,333
They really never make it easy, but I'll take the win in what had all the components of a trap game coming off a big win with a big game on deck Thursday. Dalton had an absolutely hideous turnover for the second straight game and it's eventually going to cost him - sometimes you just have to take a sack or throw it away especially when you're leading late in games. Hill got his first taste of extended carries and did not disappoint against an underrated Jaguars front. I've said this offense would function optimally with him as the early down, between the tackles runner with Bernard in a Reggie Bush role utilized in space and as a change of pace - even taking away the 60-yarder, he still averaged over four yards a carry and kept them out of third and longs. Green looked good in limited snaps and had another TD called back since he lined up offsides. Sanu continues to be a revelation with another acrobatic catch and getting open on the outside where he hasn't in the past. The offensive line had another strong game against a Jaguars front that came in to the game second in sacks.
 
On the other side, despite only allowing 16 points when the Jaguars didn't start inside the 10, it was a pretty poor defensive effort. The pass rush was effective as Atkins continues to round into form, but they dropped about four interceptions and Newman and Hall uncharacteristically played the ball terribly on the TD passes they allowed as they were both underthrown. I was worried about the run defense against Denard Robinson and he gashed them a couple times, which would've been worse if he didn't fall down on what might have been a TD run. This was to be expected as they were starting Nico Johnson at MLB who they picked up off the street two weeks ago, but the defensive line is still getting beat at the point of attack. Needless to say, I'm pretty worried about a Kyle Shanahan run game on Thursday night. The special teams continued to be solid as they blocked two punts, although the kickoff coverage was not great.
 
Onto the Browns Thursday night in what has unexpectedly become a showdown for the division lead and a game the Bengals have to have with three straight road games coming up along with two games against Pittsburgh, a return trip to Cleveland and a date with Denver still on the docket. At least it gives me an excuse to post this:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJMa20xXykI
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,325
Hingham, MA
Marv's gotta be happy about this
 

Bengals rookie running back Jeremy Hill, who had a front-row seat for the blowout, was among the unimpressed.
Asked whether the Browns were better than he previously thought, Hill said, "Oh no, not at all. They're probably worse than I thought, to be honest with you."
He didn't stop there.
"They didn't do anything special to me," Hill continued. "I mean, respect to them, they won the game. But that's all I'll give them."
 
Sigh.
 

jsinger121

@jsinger121
SoSH Member
Jul 25, 2005
17,681
Can't believe I thought Cincy righted the ship or put in the top 5 for my individual AFC rankings. They are awful. Can't see them winning many down the stretch with this schedule. 

At New Orleans 
At Houston
At Tampa Bay 
Pittsburgh
At Cleveland 
Denver 
At Pittsburgh 
 

Rudy's Curve

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2006
2,333
That should all but end the season - they can only afford two more losses and project to be dogs at least five times down the stretch. It is absolutely incomprehensible that Dalton "beat" a J.J. Watt-led defense in the Rose Bowl four years ago. I don't believe in clutch players, but I do believe in chokers and he sure as hell is one. There really aren't any words to describe how bad he was last night (and is). I'm a Hue Jackson fanboy and think he's done a good job overall, but it was inexcusable to get away from the run last night when your QB sucks and the other team can't stop the run. They were also without Andre Smith and calling replacement Marshall Newhouse a turnstile would be kind - run the damn ball. Russell Bodine may have benched 42 reps at the combine, but he's not any good at football. The Bengals have generally been strong in the draft the last few years, but trading up in the fourth to get him looks like a major mistake. Speaking of major mistakes, the waste of oxygen that is Jermaine Gresham struck again as he cut off his route on the first interception, although I should probably rethink giving Dalton any benefit of the doubt.
 
I said that this team's inability to stop the run facing a Kyle Shanahan offense was pretty worrisome, and boy was it ever. Margus Hunt has completely failed to take a step forward in his second season, but at least there's still plenty of time - he's only 27. Domata Peko (the worst starting DT in the league and this is not up for debate) and Robert Geathers' expiration dates were sometime in the Bush administration while Devon Still is a bust. A ragtag linebacking crew sure as hell wasn't stopping them at the second level and the Browns were without Cameron and Hawkins - I can only imagine how bad it would've been had they played. 
 
We'll probably see that imagination come to life next week when they visit New Orleans as a defense that can't stop the run or tight ends against that running game and Graham is a sure recipe for success. Last time they were there, they won despite Brees throwing for over 500 yards. The latter is much more likely to happen again.