2014 Celtics Offseason: Rebuilding Plans
- Thread starter Curtis Pride
- Start date
Id flip bradley and a pick for Lance right now in an S and T. Stephenson is very good and young.
Stitch01 said:
Cellar-Door said:
I... don't get it. Absent a complementary move, adding another SG (albeit one who has some entertainment value and actual value) makes little sense. Bradley can't be moved for
Unless this is an S&T three-way that somehow gets other quality players onto the Celts, I see no point. And I'm pretty sure CBA doesn't allow an S&T player to be traded until December 15 anyway. If we get Lance, we keep him.
Basically, I wouldn't want to sign a headache who helps a 30-win team be a 33-win team.
EDIT: Am I reading CBA FAQ right that Bradley cannot be moved until January 15th since the Celts exercised Bird rights?
I don't think a sign and trade is needed for Lance. He's unrestricted and the Pacers have no bird rights over him.southshoresoxfan said:
I think by "looking into" Stephenson, they're checking on the possibility that he's such a headcase that they're curious if they can sign him for 50 cents on the dollar.
He's has over $9m per on the table and the two sides are reportedly not even close so not sure what you mean by this.bowiac said:
He's exactly the type of player the Celtics missed last season without Pierce....an elite pick-n-roll shot maker and creator. I'm glad Ainge is exploring ways to fill the most needed role in our offense whether it's Stevenson or not.
I just mean that "looking into" doesn't mean much. I like Stephenson, although I think he's a strange fit for a team that just signed a SG, and just drafted a PG who may well end up at SG... Oh, plus James Young, another SG...
He really isn't this in any way shape or form. He finishes well at the rim but he's a bad pull up shooter. He's essentially what we hope Marcus Smart is, but at the 2.HomeRunBaker said:
He gets a lot of assists for a SG, and is good at getting to the rim and finishing. He also shot the 3 ok last year, and if he can maintain his levels from last year he could be good, I'd worry though that last year was his best year and that was based in large part on a huge first half, his post AS break numbers on both offense and defense took a huge tumble.
Whoever gets him is paying a ton for athletic potential attached to a crazy guy with consistency issues and all kinds of attitude. Put him on a bad team like the Celtics and he's going to take 25 shots a game half of them terrible, play lazy defense, argue with coaches and teammates and keep cashin them checks for 4 or 5 years.
TL
R- there is a ton of Ricky Davis with a worse attitude potential in Stephenson.
He really is one of the leagues best pick-n-roll players and it's pretty universally known. If he wasn't it isn't likely he'd be in the league.....it's what he does and how he was used last year very effectively.
Lets put it this way with Lance, there were 25 SGs last year who took 400 or more 2pt FGs:
- Lance was 2nd in the league in 2pt FG% at 54.5% only behind Wade at 55.7%.
- The 2pt FG% of SGs who took 400+ 2pt FGs was 47.8%, so Lance was very much above average
- In terms of eFG%, Lance was 7th at 54% and the average (of SGs with 400+ 2pt FGA) was 50.4%
I don't recall Ricky Davis taunting opponents the way Stephenson does. It's one thing to play with a chip on your shoulder, but another to be completely classless. Also, it will be interesting to see if he can put up similar numbers when he's not playing alongside Paul George.
Having said that, Stephenson is an instigator and he's talented.
Having said that, Stephenson is an instigator and he's talented.
Ricky's biggest problem as I remember it was always maturity and he never really gained any. I remember reading an article that described his whole mentality of 'get buckets', it was like he was trying to be the best fantasy player possible kind of ignore the best teammate aspect of the game.
On Lance, this is such a subjective thing is really is all about doing a lot of due diligence. There is a real fine line between intense instigator (which is great) and crazy. KG was the former but for the most part was always under control. Perk was an intense instigator who would occasionally cross the line and just couldnt control his technical fouls, but he controlled his crazy so this was a good thing. I think thats what it comes down to for the crazies, can they control their crazy. And Lance's most recent crazy playoff appearance kind of reminds me of Pierce and his whole head bandage craziness in a way because I love that he was trying to really get under Lebron's skin thats just awesome.
On Lance, this is such a subjective thing is really is all about doing a lot of due diligence. There is a real fine line between intense instigator (which is great) and crazy. KG was the former but for the most part was always under control. Perk was an intense instigator who would occasionally cross the line and just couldnt control his technical fouls, but he controlled his crazy so this was a good thing. I think thats what it comes down to for the crazies, can they control their crazy. And Lance's most recent crazy playoff appearance kind of reminds me of Pierce and his whole head bandage craziness in a way because I love that he was trying to really get under Lebron's skin thats just awesome.
I suppose lance is pretty similar to ricky davis when the C's acquired him at the same age and position & being a "head case", except that lance is a better shooter, rebounder, passer, defender & turns the ball over less than ricky did at the time. Lance definitely has some maturity issues to sort through, but Ricky did some koo-koo crazy stuff on the court like trying a between the legs dunk in a game or missing a shot intentionally in a game to try to get a triple-double - pretty much the definition of a selfish chucker. And even so the ricky davis experiment wasn't a disaster b/c he ended up getting flipped for assets later on.
I like lance, pending danny's due diligence and if the price is right. He has a ton of potential, is only 23 and we're in asset gathering mode at the moment, not trying to construct the perfect roster. If james young plays the 3 and rondo is on the way out, then there is definitely room for avery, lance and marcus in a guard rotation.
I like lance, pending danny's due diligence and if the price is right. He has a ton of potential, is only 23 and we're in asset gathering mode at the moment, not trying to construct the perfect roster. If james young plays the 3 and rondo is on the way out, then there is definitely room for avery, lance and marcus in a guard rotation.
I don't dislike Stephenson as a player, but if reports are to be believed, he just turned down 5/44 from Indy.
Unless his market collapses and Danny can circle back around and sign him for cheaper later on, I'm not sure how he fits. I want no part of beating that contract.
Unless his market collapses and Danny can circle back around and sign him for cheaper later on, I'm not sure how he fits. I want no part of beating that contract.
Well the Celtics have been rumored to be in on a 3-way trade with Phoenix and the Pacers. While we've assumed/speculated that Hibbert was the return for Rondo, it's entirely possible that Stephenson would be the one taking up Rondo's $12mil+ cap slot. The $10mil TPE expires soon, but I'm not sure if there's a quality big out there that could be had for it now that Asik is off the market.
This team is not competitive next year unless they find a way to get Love here (or similarly good player) in addition to any Stephenson deal. They are at a point where they should sign whoever doesn't kill their cap, and who is, or can be, an asset down the line. This should happen regardless of position.
A Smart, Bradley, Stephenson, Green, Young playing PG/SG/SF is an interesting mix, IMO.
A Smart, Bradley, Stephenson, Green, Young playing PG/SG/SF is an interesting mix, IMO.
He essentially turned down the lowball offer which was very slightly more than what Avery and Channing Frye received. Can't really blame him and his team for laughing at what Bird put on the table.radsoxfan said:
He can do much more than shoot. Lance led all SG's with over 7 Rpg and 3rd in Apg behind Harden and Tyreke. Those percentages are also reflecting that many of these attempts are against the shot clock in Indiana's stagnant halfcourt offense.wutang112878 said:
radsoxfan said:
Would you rather have Bradley at the 3/24 or Lance at say 5/50? I'd be ok going with the higher AAV and more years because Lance is clearly improving and is so much better offensively than Bradley. I wouldnt want to pass up a good opportunity to get Lance just because we signed Bradley and thats duplication if we got Lance. I have to believe we could move Bradley and just take a slightly crappy contract back and remove that duplication.
Overall on fit, we have fit problems for most of our roster so I dont mind creating another one if we are potentially adding real talent
A big no from me for Lance. I'm comfortable with the idea that the Celtics are going to suck next year, and probably the year after that at least. Lance would be a good signing for a team that is one or two pieces away from being a contender. The Celtics need many, many things to reach that level, so bringing in Lance doesn't really solve anything.
The worst part of this is that Lance on the Celtics would be a miserable fit imo. Lance will be our top scoring option, which means he is going to take about 10 shots a game that he shouldn't have taken, and pick up a ton of bad habits. Ideally, Lance needs to be in a situation where the coach and the team can reel him in from time to time, but the Celtics will just give Lance carte blanche to do whatever he wants, because they have nothing better to go with.
The worst part of this is that Lance on the Celtics would be a miserable fit imo. Lance will be our top scoring option, which means he is going to take about 10 shots a game that he shouldn't have taken, and pick up a ton of bad habits. Ideally, Lance needs to be in a situation where the coach and the team can reel him in from time to time, but the Celtics will just give Lance carte blanche to do whatever he wants, because they have nothing better to go with.
I'm not going to lie, part of me wants to see it just to see how crazy a backcourt of Stephenson and Smart could be. As a player, I'd be thrilled with something like 5/55 for Stephenson, who could turn into a max or near max guy if he improves and cleans up his act a it. Like Smart, he's crazy, but he's also a hard worker. I think he's the perfect fit for Stevens.
If they sign LS, the celtics will have a lock down on nyc high school scoring leaders. Lance#1, Bassy #3 and Kenny A. #4.
Actually, that's NY state, they're 1,2,3 in NYC.
Actually, that's NY state, they're 1,2,3 in NYC.
Since we don't have anything better wouldn't this be the exact reason we would want to have the balls in Lance's hands? To say he would be a significant upgrade is an understatement.Kliq said:
As we obviously need many parts Lance would absolutely solve one of the problems. If we approached every acquisition with the attitude that alone it wouldn't make a difference because we have so many holes we would never improve the personnel on the team.
Who needs cap space? This would be a part of the Rondo/Dragic 3-Teamer with Phoenix. Of course Lance as a FA would have to agree to a contract with Boston. We also have the $10m TPE, the full MLE, and non-guaranteed contracts of Bogans and Pressey. Ainge has a ton of flexibility to get deals done if he wants to pull the trigger.bowiac said:
Probably, but the expectation since last year was that Trader Danny would use it. It's an asset, and I can't see them letting it go for nothing.swingin val said:
HomeRunBaker said:
Are you sure? Assuming he actually was resigned, looks like he can't be moved until Dec 15 since he was a free agent.
July 1st was the first day teams could negotiate with FA and come to verbal agreements. We are still in the FA signing moratorium period until Thurs when the players can officially sign these contracts.zenter said:
Each of these "signings" you here announced are only verbal agreements and sides are still able to be negotiated into sign-n-trades until they are officially done.
I like Stephenson as a backcourt partner with Smart, but that team would need some solid leadership (read: not Rondo) to help steer things in the right direction.
HomeRunBaker said:
It's not a great offer when compared to Bradley or Frye, thats for sure. But as a front office, that doesn't mean the Pacers should be lining up to be the next one on the ridiculous contract list. Take those as reasonable comparisons at your own risk.
I think 9M/year on a very long term commitment is a reasonable offer from the Pacers…. they know him better than anyone else. If someone else wants to offer him 60M, I can understand letting him go. He's just not that good, and he is that crazy.
http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2014/07/danny_ainge_plays_cool_customer
Apparently Boston has had no contact with Stephenson or his agent at all.
Apparently Boston has had no contact with Stephenson or his agent at all.
You have to adapt to the market though or else you won't be making competitive offers to anyone. The cap will be around $10m higher next year and we see the market changing daily......$9m per for a Stephenson isn't even close to anything he would or should accept. This is a market where a team isn't offering Gordon Frickin Hayward a max deal because they know his team will match!radsoxfan said:
And it's not slowing down anytime soon....it's heading higher and higher.
Per Marc Stein -
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
Three-team trade will see Nets acquire Jarrett Jack and Sergey Karasev from Cleveland. Boston gets Thornton, Zeller and a first
Wonder what we're giving up.
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
Three-team trade will see Nets acquire Jarrett Jack and Sergey Karasev from Cleveland. Boston gets Thornton, Zeller and a first
Wonder what we're giving up.
So what has danny given up versus what hes gotten?
Give
Pierce
Garnett
2nd rd pick
Doc Rivers
Get
Humphries
Wallace
5 firsts
1 right to swap
Tyler zeller
Marcus Thronton
Not bad Danny. Not bad at all.
Give
Pierce
Garnett
2nd rd pick
Doc Rivers
Get
Humphries
Wallace
5 firsts
1 right to swap
Tyler zeller
Marcus Thronton
Not bad Danny. Not bad at all.
bowiac said:
Was reading somewhere that under the new CBA, it seems like the only way to build a championship team (other than the Spurs model of having star players take pretty big discounts) is to limit the team to one or two max players and fill in with contributors on rookie contracts (sort of like the NFL).
Given how sports leagues are artificially depressing the contracts of draftees, seems like first-round picks are becoming increasingly more valuable all over.
The NBA is a good place to be as a middle of the road player. The money at the bottom for draftees is compressed by the CBA, and the money at the top for the max guys is compressed too.
Its like being middle management at a company where the ceo makes 500k you make 250k but the guy below you makes minimum wagebowiac said:
what does the roster look like (is this close):
Zeller/Faverani
Sully/Olynyk
Green/Young
Bradley/Thornton
Rondo/Smart/Pressey
Zeller/Faverani
Sully/Olynyk
Green/Young
Bradley/Thornton
Rondo/Smart/Pressey
With all this cap space and possibly him not being done creating more, is there a reason why Ainge just wouldn't punt away 2015 as well? I mean, I don't expect Saunders to trade Love at this point. Here's a list of the potential players that could be had in the summer of 2016..
-Anthony Davis
-Kevin Durant
-Damian Lillard
-Andre Drummond
-Joakim Noah
-Michael Carter Williams
-Dwight Howard (possible opt out clause?)
-Roy Hibbert
-Al Horford
-Nerlens Noel
-Deron Williams
-Brook Lopez
-Anthony Davis
-Kevin Durant
-Damian Lillard
-Andre Drummond
-Joakim Noah
-Michael Carter Williams
-Dwight Howard (possible opt out clause?)
-Roy Hibbert
-Al Horford
-Nerlens Noel
-Deron Williams
-Brook Lopez