2014 Draft Game Day 2

bbc23

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TallManinOregon said:
I want to throw shit at Mike Mayock every time he says a "guy has Twitch."
My favorite Mayock-ism has been that he wasn't impressed with a guy at first, but after he started digging through the tape he fell in love with him.
 

mabrowndog

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ESPN best available (thru pick #91)
 
NAME POS HT WT SCHOOL GRADE RANK
Bruce Ellington* WR 5'9⅜" 197 South Carolina 79 58
AJ McCarron QB 6'3¼" 220 Alabama 78 60
Martavis Bryant* WR 6'3¾" 211 Clemson 76 66
Brent Urban DT 6'6⅝" 295 Virginia 76 67
Tom Savage QB 6'3⅞" 228 Pittsburgh 75 68
Bashaud Breeland CB 5'11⅜" 197 Clemson 75 70
Keith McGill CB 6'3⅜" 211 Utah 73 72
Pierre Desir CB 6'1" 198 Lindenwood 72 75
Devonta Freeman* RB 5'8¼" 206 Florida State 71 77
Daquan Jones DT 6'3¾" 322 Penn State 71 78
Brandon Thomas* OG 6'3¼" 317 Clemson 70 83
Caraun Reid DT 6'2⅛" 302 Princeton 70 84
Jaylen Watkins CB 5'11½" 194 Florida 70 85
Ed Stinson DE 6'3¼" 287 Alabama 69 87
Aaron Colvin CB 5'11⅜" 177 Oklahoma 69 88
Brandon Coleman WR 6'6" 225 RUTGERS 69 89
Russell Bodine* OC 6'3⅛" 310 North Carolina 69 90
Andre Williams RB 5'11⅜" 230 Boston College 69 93
 

Reverend

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Deathofthebambino said:
If they are just looking for a guy to give them 4 years as a backup at a minimum salary, then do that shit in the 4th round. 
 
I'm having trouble wrapping my head around something.  If the Pats truly believe that JG is the next great thing, why did they risk him getting all the way to their pick at 62?  Did they think they were the only ones that felt that way about him, so they didn't need to worry about moving up?  Or were they just unconcerned and if someone else grabbed him, they would have just moved in another direction, because if that's the case, I really don't understand why they took him where they did?
 
Yeah, I have yet to hear a good explanation. I've seen people say that they drafted him in the 2nd because they must have liked him, but that's basically a tautology.
 
I'd really like an explanation as to why. It doesn't have to be definitive, just something to think about.
 

Phragle

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Super Nomario said:
That's why I got married.
 
Never draft for need.
 
soxfan121 said:
 
Pretty good - Brady was healthy the whole time. 
 
I fundamentally disagree with your premise that Mallet has had no value to the Patriots because he hasn't played. When Ron Brace can't get reps in a rotation, that is proof of no value. When Mallet or Garrapolo doesn't get a snap at QB, it is an unused insurance policy. Having a high quality, ready-to-step-in backup for a 37 year old QB is desirable UNLESS you plan stumble into a Suck for Luck in case of injury.
 
I wouldn't presume to argue with you about whether Garrapolo is any good - I've never seen him, etc. So if you're telling me that you are 100% sure he is Tyler Wilson/Blaine Gabbert II, then I'll change my tune here. But if there's any chance the kid has something BB might be able to use or refine and there's the ever-present risk of Brady missing a season because Kevin Faulk got busted for weed and Sammy Morris fucked up a blocking assignment....
 
Who said no value? It was just a way worse pick than some others which is the problem I have with the Garoppolo pick. Do the Pats still lose the 2011 SB if Jurrell Casey is there instead of Deaderick or Love? Maybe, but they'd have an even better chance.
 
Edit: Meaning they would have done better.
 
Cellar-Door said:
 

ESPN's Matt Williamson on why Nix fell...
I have heard that Nix is kind of a different cat..was super into Twitter and marketing himself...maybe too into ice cream too

 
 
He is hard to read on Twitter. 
 
tims4wins said:
Mallett was a good pick because they are gonna get 4 years of backup QB at minimum salary. That has a lot of value. Hopefully JG gives them the same, and then hopefully they hit on a QB in 2017-2018 who will be the Heir. That's the dream.
 
If that's true than anyone could have a lot of value. "What did Curtis Painter ever do in the NFL?" "He added a lot of value!"
 

wibi

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Stitch01 said:
It sure wasnt me so not sure what your point is
 
Why are you arguing with me then?  My point was that if you valued Mallett high then the pick had to lower his trade value.  If you dont value Mallett high then you really dont need to be in this discussion as his trade value wasnt much to begin with.  
 

wibi

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soxfan121 said:
 
Pretty good - Brady was healthy the whole time. 
 
I fundamentally disagree with your premise that Mallet has had no value to the Patriots because he hasn't played. When Ron Brace can't get reps in a rotation, that is proof of no value. When Mallet or Garrapolo doesn't get a snap at QB, it is an unused insurance policy. Having a high quality, ready-to-step-in backup for a 37 year old QB is desirable UNLESS you plan stumble into a Suck for Luck in case of injury.
 
I wouldn't presume to argue with you about whether Garrapolo is any good - I've never seen him, etc. So if you're telling me that you are 100% sure he is Tyler Wilson/Blaine Gabbert II, then I'll change my tune here. But if there's any chance the kid has something BB might be able to use or refine and there's the ever-present risk of Brady missing a season because Kevin Faulk got busted for weed and Sammy Morris fucked up a blocking assignment....
 
Who said that Mallett has no value to the Patriots?  That was never a statement uttered on any of the posts in this thread
 

DJnVa

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Reverend said:
 
Yeah, I have yet to hear a good explanation. I've seen people say that they drafted him in the 2nd because they must have liked him, but that's basically a tautology.
 
I'd really like an explanation as to why. It doesn't have to be definitive, just something to think about.
 
Well, there was a report that they would have taken Bortles in the first if he was there.
 
I think the answer is simple---they want to find his Brady's replacement eventually and if a QB was at a spot they felt was value, they took him. At #29, that was Bortles. At #62, that guy was JG. Perhaps in this entire draft those were the only guys they wanted at QB in the first 2 days.
 
BB will give some insight soon I'd bet.
 

Cellar-Door

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phragle said:
Who said no value? It was just a way worse pick than some others which is the problem I have with the Garoppolo pick. Do the Pats still lose the 2011 SB if Jurrell Casey is there instead of Deaderick or Love? Maybe, but they'd have an even better chance.
 
The problem is that the pick is to you worse than others because Brady never got hurt and Mallett never played.. Mallett is an insurance policy, the fact that you don't get sick in a given year doesn't mean you shouldn't buy health insurance.
 

Stitch01

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wibi said:
Why are you arguing with me then?  My point was that if you valued Mallett high then the pick had to lower his trade value.  If you dont value Mallett high then you really dont need to be in this discussion as his trade value wasnt much to begin with.
Mallett isn't here in 2015 whether he is great, the worst, or anywhere in between. Even if we think he sucks he's not going to sign to sit behind Brady again. That's my point.
 

mascho

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All I know is that one of Mettenberger/McCarron will be available at 93, if not both.  
 
Could have drafted Marcus Martin in the 2nd and gotten a QB here.
 
And there goes Trai.
 

Stitch01

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Trade down to complete the night would be perfect trollage. Reasonable chance no day one or two rookies would be active week 1.

Hahahahahahahaha A plus
 

soxfan121

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Deathofthebambino said:
If they are just looking for a guy to give them 4 years as a backup at a minimum salary, then do that shit in the 4th round. 
 
No, they are looking for a guy who pushes Brady for the starting job. Because that's what they've done since Day One of the Belichick Era - it's why I've dropped a half-dozen Drew Bledsoe references. Because as good as Tom Brady is, someday - maybe sooner than we all hope - he won't be good anymore. It happens to every athlete. I hope Brady plays as long as George Blanda. I really, really do. 
 
But if he does not, then having a very good back up is preferable. If said backup then starts kicking Brady's ass in practice and proves he's better...isn't that the best possible outcome? The Steve Young scenario? Rolling along with the next guy, who you found, groomed and then unleashed when circumstance or Mo Lewis dicate?
 

DJnVa

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A 4th and 6th tomorrow for this pick.
 
Pats done for tonight.
 

Cellar-Door

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mascho said:
All I know is that one of Mettenberger/McCarron will be available at 93, if not both.  
 
Could have drafted Marcus Martin in the 2nd and gotten a QB here.
 
And there goes Trai.
Sure, but the Patriots obviously don't think those two are good QBs. They didn't draft JG just because he's a body to fill the backup QB position. This idiotic insistence by some on this board with saying... oh well they could get some other guy later is infuriating, as it seems to assume that all the QBs are equal without any support They can get an OL later too under that reasoning.
 

Devizier

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Deathofthebambino said:
If they are just looking for a guy to give them 4 years as a backup at a minimum salary, then do that shit in the 4th round. 
 
I'm having trouble wrapping my head around something.  If the Pats truly believe that JG is the next great thing, why did they risk him getting all the way to their pick at 62?  Did they think they were the only ones that felt that way about him, so they didn't need to worry about moving up?  Or were they just unconcerned and if someone else grabbed him, they would have just moved in another direction, because if that's the case, I really don't understand why they took him where they did?
 
You could, along those lines, ask why JG wasn't drafted #1 overall, since Houston does need a quarterback.
 

Reverend

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DrewDawg said:
 
Well, there was a report that they would have taken Bortles in the first if he was there.
 
I think the answer is simple---they want to find his Brady's replacement eventually and if a QB was at a spot they felt was value, they took him. At #29, that was Bortles. At #62, that guy was JG. Perhaps in this entire draft those were the only guys they wanted at QB in the first 2 days.
 
BB will give some insight soon I'd bet.
 
When Easley was drafted, we got lots of explanations as to why Easley would be good in that role. I haven't seen anything like that with respect to this pick. This is more tautological stuff--yes, I get it, they drafted a QB because they think they need a QB and think this is the kind of QB they think they need... but why? Does he fit the system well? And if so, why? IQ? Pocket presence? Reads?
 
The only think I've heard about his play is happy feet. This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but there is so much desire to defend the pick--which is fine with me, as I'm a huge Believe in BB guy--but I'd like to see the defense include actual football information.
 
I'd like to know who the guy is.
 

twibnotes

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Cellar-Door said:
The problem is that the pick is to you worse than others because Brady never got hurt and Mallett never played.. Mallett is an insurance policy, the fact that you don't get sick in a given year doesn't mean you shouldn't buy health insurance.
The problem with this theory is that if Brady is out for an extended period, SB hopes are probably dashed anyway. Further, is Mallett measurably better than a solid vet backup?

I'd rather see the pats use picks early on the draft that make a healthy-Brady version of the team better now.
 

Hendu for Kutch

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mascho said:
All I know is that one of Mettenberger/McCarron will be available at 93, if not both.  
 
Could have drafted Marcus Martin in the 2nd and gotten a QB here.
 
And there goes Trai.
 
But what if they didn't want whatever QB would be available at 93, they wanted Garoppolo?
 

DJnVa

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Reverend said:
 
The only think I've heard about his play is happy feet. This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but there is so much desire to defend the pick--which is fine with me, as I'm a huge Believe in BB guy--but I'd like to see the defense include actual football information.
 
I'd like to know who the guy is.
 
Let's let BB speak to that. We don't know his plan, I think we're trying to figure out what it is.
 
It could be as simple as was said on Twitter--they have to find Brady's replacement eventually. Perhaps they think, for whatever reason, that this guy is someone that could be that guy. As an FCS guy he needs time and since Brady isn't done quite yet, he gets that. If Brady is healthy and playing well for 4 years, then like with Mallett we get a backup QB at low cost. 
 

soxfan121

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SMU_Sox said:
I know SoSH is a boys club and I get that but nothing says "I'm a loser" more than insulting the looks of average men.
 
You owe Infield Infidel royalty payments.
 

ivanvamp

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I am of the belief that Belichick has been the best drafter in the NFL during his time with the Patriots, but that doesn't mean he doesn't leave me scratching my head from time to time.  A middling QB in round 2, when they could have gotten possibly better QBs later, and when they still had needs elsewhere?  Then this trade for….what, exactly?  So their day 2 ends up being nobody that they hope even sniffs the football field for 4 years or so.
 

Jettisoned

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JohnnyTheBone said:
I think they have the Mallett deal in place for the first pick in the 4th round, thus making this trade-down more palatable. 
 
Gonna be hard to do that considering the Texans traded that pick to the Eagles...
 

DJnVa

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JohnnyTheBone said:
I think they have the Mallett deal in place for the first pick in the 4th round, thus making this trade-down more palatable. 
 
Per NFLN scroll, Texans don't own the first pick of the 4th round, Philly does.