2014 NBA Draft Thread (No Spoilers You Clowns)

[Cellar-Door]

Favors makes $12M/year. He's 20% of a team's cap. I think he's a below average player for his position, (although he's young enough that he could improve), so I think he's probably not worth much.
 
But I'm curious how good you think he is, if you think he still carries real trade value at $12M/year? He's mostly a center - where would you say he ranks at that position? Just going off the RPM list as a starting point, where do you think he should rank on that list?
 
I'm really not wedded to the advanced stats on Favors, and I certainly haven't watched many Jazz games. Is he wildly better than the metrics? Or are people just saying saying a promising young player making $12M/year is still a huge asset?

RPM nobody knows how it actually works so it isn't a great stat. I would say he is middle of the pack, but his salary is 12M next year, and actually goes down as the cap goes up. He's young, and he shows real promise. He's on a terrible team with no PG to get him the ball in the post, and had one of if not the worst coach in the league so he ends up taking jumpers. With continued improvement and a coach that works on his shot selection he can be Al Jefferson with better defense, he plays  well on that end of the floor, and his post game is developing. Unfortunately they have a terrible coach who decided he should shoot jumpers to clear the lane for Kanter.

 

[Auger34]

Al Jefferson is an awful defender and, according to many, is (offensively) one of the best post players in the NBA today. Not sure I see the comp to Favors at all. He's also a much better athlete than Big Al. Favors in body type and athleticism is more of an Ibaka type but Ibaka is a much better shooter
Also, Trey Burke isn't that bad of a PG but he was injured a lot last year. Corbin was an awful coach so you are definitely right on that.
The salary is probably too much for the player he is now but he has improved every year in the NBA and is still only 23, so he can reasonably be expected to keep improving

 

[LondonSox]

I'm pretty interested to see what Philly does here.
There were looking seriously at getting their guy (wiggins) plus the 10th pick, plus the 5 second round picks.
 
Now they could move up to 1, (though the costs seem stupid to me, pre embiid it was maybe the 3rd pick plus turner and a second or something- now it's 3 and 10 and Young? crazy)
They could take Embiid 3. If that works out Noel and Embiid is crazy skill and size inside.
They could take Exum (and if they do I think Carter williams is available)
There has been chatter about trading for the laker's 7th (MCW, Young plus eat some salary)
 
Extreme situation would be Exum at 3, trade MCW Young etc for 7th, take Embiid there if the celtics don't and then another good player at 10 and then hope to hit a score in the second/ stash some guys.
 
I mean they could end up with wiggins and nothing else, Embiid and his issues plus or a completely new team.
Trading Young/ MCW etc could end up with Exum, Embiid, Noel and whoever at 10 all as rookies next year.
 
The upside and downside for a team in a draft has rarely been higher. Kill it and you could be a contender for a decade. Flop and you could have destroyed multiple years for nothing.
 
EDIT: Meant Young not Turner- correct above.

 

[EJPats]

Turner? As in Evan Turner?

 

[ALiveH]

Philly has a lot of options, apart from the most obvious (trade up or trade down).
 
They could stand pat and try to move Noel if they like Embiid.
They could stand pat and take Embiid and have 2 injury prone high-potential centers - not the worst problem to have & have at least a year to figure it out during Embiid's "redshirt".
They could draft Exum and pair him with MCW - would be interesting running mates given their size, athleticism & play-making abilities.

 

[bowiac]

RPM nobody knows how it actually works so it isn't a great stat. I would say he is middle of the pack, but his salary is 12M next year, and actually goes down as the cap goes up. He's young, and he shows real promise. He's on a terrible team with no PG to get him the ball in the post, and had one of if not the worst coach in the league so he ends up taking jumpers. With continued improvement and a coach that works on his shot selection he can be Al Jefferson with better defense, he plays  well on that end of the floor, and his post game is developing. Unfortunately they have a terrible coach who decided he should shoot jumpers to clear the lane for Kanter.

While I disagree with you about both the merits and the mystery of RPM, it's basically not salient for Favors. He doesn't look great by any "advanced" stat. He rates as basically an average guy at best. I agree with everything you said about his potential, his promise, his shot at improving in a different situation.
 
That's all well and good. If he were on a rookie deal, he'd be a great asset. How much would you pay him as a free agent however? More than he's making?

 

[LondonSox]

Turner? As in Evan Turner?

Sorry obviously I meant Young
 
The rumour around was MCW Young for the 7th pick and Nash
 
That would be a good move IMO for the sixers if they take Exum (who is a better MCW and not sure they can be together) and Nash as a salary dump would be no problem and could be a nash veteran presence too.
 
Edit: link
http://www.nj.com/sixers/index.ssf/2014/06/2014_nba_draft_rumors_sixers_lakers_talking_michael_carter-williams_trade_according_to_report.html

 

[DannyDarwinism]

Sorry obviously I meant Young
 
The rumour around was MCW Young for the 7th pick and Nash
 
That would be a good move IMO for the sixers if they take Exum (who is a better MCW and not sure they can be together) and Nash as a salary dump would be no problem and could be a nash veteran presence too.
 
Edit: link
http://www.nj.com/sixers/index.ssf/2014/06/2014_nba_draft_rumors_sixers_lakers_talking_michael_carter-williams_trade_according_to_report.html

 
I've heard that as well, but it seems very, very unlikely that Exum is there at 7.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

 
I've heard that as well, but it seems very, very unlikely that Exum is there at 7.

 
They'd be taking Exum at 3.

 

[DannyDarwinism]

 
They'd be taking Exum at 3.

 
Oh right, carry on.
 
Is this an indictment of MCW that they're apparently willing to ship him off for an allegedly similar, but unproven player, or do they just love Exum that much?

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

 
Oh right, carry on.
 
Is this an indictment of MCW that they're apparently willing to ship him off for an allegedly similar, but unproven player, or do they just love Exum that much?

 
I think they love Exum that much. I also wouldn't be shocked at all if the discussion is being driven by whether or not that can get Embiid at 7.

 

[bowiac]

Oh right, carry on.
 
Is this an indictment of MCW that they're apparently willing to ship him off for an allegedly similar, but unproven player, or do they just love Exum that much?

I would say a bit of both. It's not crazy to try and play MCW and Exum together for the season, in hopes that one of them develops a shot. They both have the size to defend the 2, it's just unclear if either has the offensive skill for it. Draft the best player available, and if he's good, you'll make it fit, even MCW also develops. On the other hand, if MCW is a bust, then Exum is a nice backstop on the position.
 
It's only a problem if they both develop, but neither one can play shooting guard. I imagine the market for a PG of MCW's size is going to be pretty liquid, so even that doesn't seem like a problem.

 

[wutang112878]

Just a general draft observation, those first 7 picks or so are going to be fascinating.  Originally Parker, Wiggins and Embiid were in a first tier and Embiid was considered by most to be the #1 but there were just enough questions by others that its probably fair to say he wasnt the no-brainer consensus #1.  Now with the injury its unclear if Embiid has indeed slipped out of this first tier and if so how far he might drop. 
 
In that next tier there are so many love/hate type players.  Smart is a scoring point with great intensity or a guy without a true position and some issues shooting.  Scouts have a ton of great things to say about Vonleh and the only knock seems to be the typical inexperience but most importantly he seems to lack the ability to get folks super excited about his ceiling and so his draft stock doesnt seem to soar.  Gordon is great except for his offensive game that is a deal breaker for some.  Exum looks great but is so difficult to project because of the competition he played against.  Randle just seems to lack the sizzle like Vonleh.  I wouldnt be surprised at these guys coming off the board in any order, and I dont think there is even a consensus 'you have to take player A over player B'.
 
Now throw in a potential trade at #1, and we still have the Embiid intrigue and all the question marks in the 2nd tier, its amazing.  You really cant leave the couch for the first 7 picks or so, its going to be great.

 

[dylanmarsh]

With all of this talk of MCW for the number 7 pick, if the Celtics don't get Love then why not offer Rondo to the Lakers and truly rebuild with 3 picks? If it worked out to be Embiid at 6, Gordon at 7 and Ennis or Payton at 17, that's a potential big 3 in the making.

 

[bowiac]

 
I like this conceptually.

 

[BigMike]

With all of this talk of MCW for the number 7 pick, if the Celtics don't get Love then why not offer Rondo to the Lakers and truly rebuild with 3 picks? If it worked out to be Embiid at 6, Gordon at 7 and Ennis or Payton at 17, that's a potential big 3 in the making.

I don't think the Lakers would take him for that pick.  I guess it would make the Lakers a bit better short term, but still miles from contenders,  and it does nothing for them long term.  MCW at least would be making a long term play

 

[LondonSox]

A young player, right off the RoY no less (though that means about zero to me), and a pretty young player who can contribute immediately AND a nash salary dump.
 
Now I'd rather take Rondo I agree, but if you like MCW he's younger, cheaper and full of potential and cheap for multiple years. Which given the stupidity of the Kobe contract is going to be needed.
Plus Young you can still dream a bit on maybe. I wouldn't do it, but if there isn't a guy you LOVE getting a guy you have seen for a year plus a useful piece and a salary dump could be talked into.
 
Edit: plus look at what the sixers got for Holiday last year. Noel AND a lottery pick. I never would have thought that was doable. I clearly don't know what people in the business think young point guards with upside are worth. The Lakers can't wait, they need to compete NOW, or what was the point of the Kobe deal? The Lakers fans will be going to the Clippers in droves

 

[gammoseditor]

If the Lakers are playing for the long term they should just keep the pick.  MCW won rookie of the year because it was a terrible class and he got lots of minutes for an awful team.  I'd rather have the 7 pick.

 

[dylanmarsh]

The reason I brought it up is that LeBron is on the market.  Now, whether it's all a ploy to get Miami to get better talent, it still creates an opportunity for the Lakers to team him up with Kobe for one last run.  In this scenario, it makes sense for the Lakers to make themselves as attractive as possible and bringing in Rondo does that.  They could also retain Gasol and then they're trotting out Rondo-Kobe-LeBron-?-Gasol for the starting five.  There's enough filler out there to make the Lakers a more attractive destination than Miami, at this point.
 
I just don't see the Lakers keeping the pick and it makes sense for the Celtics to get it if Love isn't coming.

 

[RedOctober3829]

The reason I brought it up is that LeBron is on the market.  Now, whether it's all a ploy to get Miami to get better talent, it still creates an opportunity for the Lakers to team him up with Kobe for one last run.  In this scenario, it makes sense for the Lakers to make themselves as attractive as possible and bringing in Rondo does that.  They could also retain Gasol and then they're trotting out Rondo-Kobe-LeBron-?-Gasol for the starting five.  There's enough filler out there to make the Lakers a more attractive destination than Miami, at this point.
 
I just don't see the Lakers keeping the pick and it makes sense for the Celtics to get it if Love isn't coming.

I would be sick to my stomach if the Celtics helped facilitate a Lakers Big 3. 

 

[The Social Chair]

Lebron does not get along with Kobe. He might go to LA but not to play for the Lakers.

 

[wibi]

Word out of Utah this morning is that if Embid is available at #5 when (if) the Jazz pick they will pass on him.  The if is because Utah is making a hard play for the #1 pick from Cleveland by offering up #5 and Derek Favors plus Alex Burks.

 

[SoxFanInPdx]

Word out of Utah this morning is that if Embid is available at #5 when (if) the Jazz pick they will pass on him.  The if is because Utah is making a hard play for the #1 pick from Cleveland by offering up #5 and Derek Favors plus Alex Burks.

 
Who could Utah be looking at then i wonder? 

 

[MillarTime]

 
Who could Utah be looking at then i wonder? 

 
Parker.

 

[wibi]

 
Parker.

 
Yup.  Exum is the other name being mentioned but its secondary to Parker in most ways.

 

[dylanmarsh]

Now there's a rumor going around that the Kings are positioning themselves to acquire Josh Smith and Rondo: http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2014/06/pistons-kings-trade.html
 
I suppose that's one way to get two top-10 picks.
 
https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/statuses/481520868053757952

 

[The Social Chair]

That would be my favorite team ever. Ford also says that Randle skipped his 2nd workout with the Celtics to do a GQ shoot. Could mean he has a promise from somebody.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Now there's a rumor going around that the Kings are positioning themselves to acquire Josh Smith and Rondo: http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2014/06/pistons-kings-trade.html
 
I suppose that's one way to get two top-10 picks.
 

https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/statuses/481520868053757952

Rondo for McLemore and the #8 to select Payton makes too much sense to ever happen.

Ainge has downplayed the quality of this draft all year which makes me suspicious that he secretly loves a handful of these guys in a major youth movement as a Plan B to Love or as the plan to move forward with Love.

 

[SoxFanInPdx]

Rondo for McLemore and the #8 to select Payton makes too much sense to ever happen.

Ainge has downplayed the quality of this draft all year which makes me suspicious that he secretly loves a handful of these guys in a major youth movement as a Plan B to Love or as the plan to move forward with Love.

 
Sounds about right. Either this is a total rebuild project or Ainge is just collecting assets as a precursor to the Love deal. 

 

[gammoseditor]

Rondo for McLemore and the #8 to select Payton makes too much sense to ever happen.

Ainge has downplayed the quality of this draft all year which makes me suspicious that he secretly loves a handful of these guys in a major youth movement as a Plan B to Love or as the plan to move forward with Love.

 
I'd rather deal with the Kings than the Lakers, but I would also hope they look into Rondo for 7, Nash, and a future unprotected pick.  Lakers probably say no, but I like that deal better.

 

[dylanmarsh]

 
I'd rather deal with the Kings than the Lakers, but I would also hope they look into Rondo for 7, Nash, and a future unprotected pick.  Lakers probably say no, but I like that deal better.

 
The Lakers' future picks are tied up in the previous Nash deal.  The best you could get from LAL is #7 and Nash.  #8 and McLemore is the deal to make and then you draft a point guard at either #8 or #17.
 
edit: from RealGM:
 

 
2015 first round draft pick to Phoenix
L.A. Lakers' 1st round pick to Phoenix protected for selections 1-5 in 2015, 1-3 in 2016 or 1-3 in 2017 or unprotected in 2018 [L.A. Lakers-Phoenix, 7/11/2012]
 
2017 first round draft pick to Orlando
If at least two years after the L.A. Lakers conveyed a 1st round pick to Phoenix, then the L.A. Lakers' 1st round pick to Orlando protected for selections 1-5 in 2017 or 1-5 in 2018 or unprotected in 2019; if the L.A. Lakers have not conveyed a 1st round pick to Phoenix by 2017, then the L.A. Lakers will instead convey their 2017 2nd round pick and 2018 2nd round pick to Orlando [L.A. Lakers-Phoenix, 7/11/2012 and then L.A. Lakers-Orlando, 8/10/2012]

 

[Auger34]

Rondo for McLemore and the #8 to select Payton makes too much sense to ever happen.
Ainge has downplayed the quality of this draft all year which makes me suspicious that he secretly loves a handful of these guys in a major youth movement as a Plan B to Love or as the plan to move forward with Love.

It could be a smokescreen but all the draft outlets seem to think that Ainge really likes Marcus Smart (Ford has been reporting that Ainge is looking at Gordon and Smart at the 6th pick)

 

[swingin val]

I really hope some of these rumored deals happen. Seems like every year things ramp up like this, then draft day comes, and there are just a few random, boring trades. Always such a disappointment.

 

[Steve Dillard]

I was just reminded again that we have the Sixers' first rounder next year if they make the playoffs. The Embiid injury really hurts that because instead of Wiggins they now get Exum or worse, a quarter year of Embiid.  

 

[dylanmarsh]

https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/481542400922648577

 

[bowiac]

https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/481542400922648577

I think that trade makes a lot of sense given how dumb the Cavs are. Who are the Magic gonna take #1 there? I assume Wiggins, but maybe they're afraid Exum won't make it to them?

 

[dylanmarsh]

I think that trade makes a lot of sense given how dumb the Cavs are. Who are the Magic gonna take #1 there? I assume Wiggins, but maybe they're afraid Exum won't make it to them?

 
It would have to be Wiggins.  He would play the 3 with Victor Oladipo and the #12 pick (Ennis, Payton, LaVine?) in the back court.

 

[gammoseditor]

I really hope some of these rumored deals happen. Seems like every year things ramp up like this, then draft day comes, and there are just a few random, boring trades. Always such a disappointment.

 
Not sure if serious...last year we traded two HOF'ers on draft night. 

 

[dylanmarsh]

The Cavs trading out of the #1 would probably benefit the Celtics if they truly want Embiid.  I see the draft going like this after that trade:
 
1. Wiggins (ORL)
2. Parker (MIL)
3. Exum (PHI)
4. Gordon (CLE)
5. Vonleh (UTA)
6. Embiid (BOS)

 

[bowiac]

It would have to be Wiggins.  He would play the 3 with Victor Oladipo and the #12 pick (Ennis, Payton, LaVine?) in the back court.

I've been reading too much Dean on Draft, but I'm convinced Exum is a viable #1 overall candidate.

 

[dylanmarsh]

I've been reading too much Dean on Draft, but I'm convinced Exum is a viable #1 overall candidate.

 
If Exum is truly a PG, I'm not sure how much better he will be than what's available at the position mid-draft.  Wiggins is clearly the best small forward in the draft.

 

[Auger34]

It would have to be Wiggins.  He would play the 3 with Victor Oladipo and the #12 pick (Ennis, Payton, LaVine?) in the back court.

The trade is 4, Afflalo, and the 12 for the 1. I think the Magic would be trading up to take Wiggins. I also think that Cavs would take Vonleh at 4 and James Young at 12.

 

[The Social Chair]

The only way that trade makes sense to me is that Cleveland wants Embiid but doesn't feel comfortable taking him with the 1st pick. Otherwise, why would would you give up Wiggins for one of Gordon/Vonleh/Exum and Afflalo (who's seems like a guy the Magic are trying to give away). I don't get it.

 

[TheRooster]

If you think Afflalo is 90% of Wiggins, particularly for the next 2-3 years, you end up with a 2nd (potential) stud.

 

[DannyDarwinism]

 
If Exum is truly a PG, I'm not sure how much better he will be than what's available at the position mid-draft.  Wiggins is clearly the best small forward in the draft.

 
Well, I think Demakis's point is that he is a PG, and he's considerably better than Ennis/Napier/Payton.  
 
He also, FWIW, rates Gordon, who he views as a SF, higher than Wiggins.

 

[Auger34]

Yeah I am not quite sure why people are hating this trade for the Cavs. You get Afflalo, a top 7 SG in the league who is a true two way player, the #4 pick where you can get another potential very good player, AND the 12 pick in one of the deepest drafts in years.
Let's say they make the trade (and pick Vonleh and Young), they've got
PG: Irving, Jack
SG: Afflalo, Waiters
SF: James Young (can also play Afflalo there)
PF: Thompson, Vonleh
C: Varejao
That is not a bad team at all. In the East, it is an absolute playoff team. Not only that, most of your top 8 (with the exception of Varejao and Afflalo) they are all young players and can be expected to improve.

 

[The Social Chair]

Yeah I am not quite sure why people are hating this trade for the Cavs. You get Afflalo, a top 7 SG in the league who is a true two way player, the #4 pick where you can get another potential very good player, AND the 12 pick in one of the deepest drafts in years.
Let's say they make the trade (and pick Vonleh and Young), they've got
PG: Irving, Jack
SG: Afflalo, Waiters
SF: James Young (can also play Afflalo there)
PF: Thompson, Vonleh
C: Varejao
That is not a bad team at all. In the East, it is an absolute playoff team. Not only that, most of your top 8 (with the exception of Varejao and Afflalo) they are all young players and can be expected to improve.

 
Top 7 SG is not saying much. It's one of the weaker positions in the NBA (Harden, Beal, Thompson, Wade, ?).

That team you posted might be an 8th seed but that's only because the East is terrible. You're also really gambling on Vonleh (and better hope that Wiggins doesn't turn into another Paul George).

 

[soxhop411]

RT @SherrodbCSN: Source: Celtics have engaged the Cavs about acquiring the No. 1 overall pick in the draft. http://ow.ly/ypzvK
 
 

 
 
BOSTON — The Boston Celtics continue to look at all options leading up to the NBA draft which includes landing the No. 1 overall pick.

A league source has told CSNNE.com that the Celtics have engaged the Cleveland Cavaliers about acquiring the No. 1 overall pick in Thursday's NBA draft.

While no deal is imminent, Boston's pursuit of the top overall pick speaks to their desire to indeed create "fireworks" in a draft that took a step back in terms of luster at the top following the navicular bone fracture to Joel Embiid's right foot.

If the Celtics were able to secure the top overall pick, they are expected to choose between Andrew Wiggins and Jabari Parker, arguably the top two players in this draft although multiple sources indicate Boston would lean more towards Wiggins than Parker.

Cleveland has been listening to offers for the No. 1 overall pick for weeks, but most anticipated the Cavaliers keeping it until the news broke of Embiid's foot injury which will keep him sidelined for at least four months.

The Cavaliers have not come out publicly to say that they will not draft Embiid, but all indications are that Cleveland will in fact take a pass on the 7-foot big man.

Boston, currently the holder of the No. 6 and No. 17 picks, is interested in Embiid and would consider moving up to acquire him if they were to see his most recent medical reports and the Celtics' doctors believe that, based on that additional information, he's worth the risk.

But if the Celtics were to acquire the draft's top pick, it's unlikely they would use it to select Embiid who prior to the injury was seen by most as the most likely first player chosen.

 

[gammoseditor]

I'm not sure how we beat the Magic offer, unless Rondo is going somewhere in a three way deal.

 

[The Social Chair]

I'm not sure how we beat the Magic offer, unless Rondo is going somewhere in a three way deal.

 
3 way deal with the kings? 6,8,17 and future Brooklyn #1 go to Cleveland?