2015-16 Boston College Basketball: Two old guys and a bunch of kids

RedOctober3829

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Is that true, though? Men's Basketball and Football both had very good success for the first 5 or so years in the ACC, with both making it to the conference final at least once. Do you think that was a carryover from Big East success and the school just lost the ability to compete because their recruiting competition got a lot better? I don't think that's true. BC's strength used to be finding the "diamonds in the rough" who we overlooked by the big schools but had talent and competitiveness, and were just undersized or something like that. It does no good to throw your hands in the air and say "we can't compete" because for years the program carved out a pretty solid, sustainable niche for itself. Circumstances have changed, but I don't think there's anything besides ignorance and incompetence among those in charge standing between BC athletics and repeatable ACC success. However, the damage done since 2010 is pretty devastating and will take a long, long time to overcome. If they continue down this path I can see BC getting Temple'd by the ACC sometime down the road, and then the checks will stop coming.
The biggest reason they dipped down in MBB is they have never got an adequate replacement for Al Skinner. Skinner was so good at what you said: finding the recruit that slipped through the cracks. The step up in competition, as I said, played the 2nd biggest part. Another reason is the lack of adequate facilities. Conte Forum is outdated and they don't have a flashy practice facility to show off. Same with football.
 

BigSoxFan

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The biggest reason they dipped down in MBB is they have never got an adequate replacement for Al Skinner. Skinner was so good at what you said: finding the recruit that slipped through the cracks. The step up in competition, as I said, played the 2nd biggest part. Another reason is the lack of adequate facilities. Conte Forum is outdated and they don't have a flashy practice facility to show off. Same with football.
Very true. Conte Forum is nearing, what, 30 years old? BC had a great run from 2001-2007 (albeit disappointing tourney appearances) but never built on that. Donahue Spaz'd this program and Christian is just out of his league. The hoops program is all but dead. And football is on life support. I used to complain about the TOB WTF games and Skinner's annual tourney disappointment but now I wish we could go back to them. At least we'd care again.
 

kenneycb

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They stay in the Big East and they're basically in UConn's position of hoping they get salvaged by the Big 12 or something. It's a money game at this point and their problems point more toward the AD and Leahy hating sports. The ACC move is one of the few good things they've done the last 10-15 years.
 

RedOctober3829

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They stay in the Big East and they're basically in UConn's position of hoping they get salvaged by the Big 12 or something. It's a money game at this point and their problems point more toward the AD and Leahy hating sports. The ACC move is one of the few good things they've done the last 10-15 years.
As much as all UConn supporters would want them in a P5 conference, they aren't in a bad position in the AAC. Football is on the upswing and the move hasn't hurt the hoops program as they're still a national program. It hadn't hurt their recruiting and they have no problem scheduling quality OOC games.
 

BigSoxFan

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The move to the ACC was a good one. Everything they've done since the move has been the problem.
 

BigMike

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Hicks must have hit the guy really hard with his face the other night. Drew a PF 5 stitches and a concussion. Hope the other guy's elbow was ok
 

4 6 3 DP

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I understand that Louisville is a good squad but Jim Christian is absolutely out of his league as was said above. I thought JC might be a solid coach based on last season but this squad is a joke. These kids are regressing - the shot quality is appalling. I'm only watching because I'm not feeling well and theres not much else on. But this is an embarrassment.
 

BigSoxFan

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Maybe next time don't take a 5th year senior who hogs the ball and drags down the entire team while also stunting young players' growth? Christian is terrible. I was hopeful he would be different because he signed up a good assistant coaching staff but this team is garbage. Robinson is the only real player we have. Turner has sucked shit all season. The rest of the guys (Meznieks, Milon, Diallo, etc.) just flat out suck. Poor Clifford never even sniffed a tourney. But he kind of sucks too.
 

BigMike

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I still don't know that we can judge Christian on this year. Very hard to do much when you have a 7 footer who can't score inside 5 feet, as your best or second best player. And the other guy who they are relying on is Eli Carter who well sucks.

As bad as the Eli Carter era has been from the start it has really gotten bad now. He flat out quit our there today

On the plus side Sammy Barnes Thompkins has shown a ton the past couple of games.

My biggest complaint with Christian all year has been the way he rides Dialo. Now for much of the season Dialo has been unable to stay on the court because of foul trouble. But he has only committed 6 fouls in the last 4 games, and still get 9-11 minutes a game. And he is Christian's whipping boy out there far to often.

Today in the second half. Tuner commits a fouls on a guy driving the lane, and Dialo splats the layup away to make sure he doesn't get the 3 point play. Next time down, SBT commits a foul and Louisville player launches a floater. DIalo gets up and and swats the ball away at the apex, but the officials meet and decide to call a goaltending. Christian benches him. A few minutes later Dialo comes back in the game. Louisville is in full court press, Dialo does the right thing and breaks back to try and give the inbound passer an outlet, and he fumbles the 45 foot pass to him out of bounds. Christian immediately pulls him out of the game.

I have said it before, Dialo needs to play. He basically should be playing enough to foul out of every game. Especially in these games where the team is getting completely blown out
 

BigSoxFan

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Yup. All of young guys should be getting tons of minutes, especially Diallo. Our frontcourt next year might be the worst one we've ever seen.
 

Bleedred

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I'm impressed that you guys continue to watch. I confess putting the game on for a few minutes, but it's such indescribably bad basketball, and so depressing given where this program was not even a decade ago, that I just cannot watch. It's simply depressing
 

gingerbreadmann

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If nothing else, a fun game to watch, even in the last 10 minutes when the lead horrifically evaporated as we all thought would happen. Let's hope there are a couple more efforts like that in the near future.
 

BigMike

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It's a shame, BC should have won that game. I guess asking Eli to have 2 good halves is a bit much. starts 6-12, finishes 8-21.

Didn't have Milon on the court for the first possession where they needed a 3, big mistake.

real shame what happened to Turner, that really hurt BC. He doesn't score much, but he is the best perimeter defender they have.
 

berniecarbo1

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Interesting article by Steve Buckley. Kind of proves my point that the administration, and more to the point Bates, doesn't really get it.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/college/college_basketball/2016/02/buckley_new_low_at_the_heights?

Too much of a disconnect to understand what makes BC, well BC. Tailor your programs and marketing to maximize it, rather than thinking you are something you're not. Play anybody, anywhere, anytime like they used to do. Look the way things are programmed now is not working. Bad teams with no NCAA appearance in 10 year, horrible OOC football schedules that make people yawn or laugh at it. That stuff doesn't work. What made BC a fun place to go to back i 70s and 80s was the teams they payed both in hoops and football. In hoops they played local rivals and the games were electric. PC, UMass, Holy Cross along with Big East rivals St. John's Georgetown, Syracuse and UConn were cool events.

In football, they played national schedules. For example, in 1987 BC played the following opponents: USC, Notre Dame, TCU, Penn State and Tennessee, along with the usual eastern opponents (No UMass, Holy Cross, Central Michigan or Howard back then). That was a great schedule. in '88 they played the same teams again and in '89 they swapped USC with tOSU and Georgia Tech for Tennessee. Point is, they played real teams...and people showed up to see how they would do.

Nowadays no one cares 'cuz there is no connection to the opponents or the OOC is against doormats. That affects attendance, morale and recruiting. When you can't recruit any 4 stars in football and you have to go to California to fill out your basketball team, that tells you something. Know who you are and what makes your program work. If you have no history with the school, you can't possibly understand it. BC's administration has no such history, hence this is what you have. Time to clean house at the top and bring BC people back into the program.
 
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gingerbreadmann

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At the same time they were playing all these regional opponents in basketball and national schedules in football, they were threatening to leave the Big East if the conference didn't add football schools (which led to schools like WVU and VT joining the Big East, and many dominoes down the road BC settling in to the ACC).

The 80s can look like the golden years when you reflect on it now, but the mid 2000s weren't so bad either, even when BC was playing southern Mid-Atlantic schools instead of UConn and Syracuse. We've had a decade to adjust to the ACC schools and build connections with our yearly opponents, and I would argue that when our teams were good, there was a lot of progress made there, notably vs. Clemson and NC State in football and even vs. UNC and Duke to a certain extent in basketball. When we could compete with these guys, people showed up and cared and the games were fun.

I get this is a chicken and egg situation, and I do agree that knowing the school and its place in the Boston and NCAA landscapes is a crucial element of leading BC athletics -- it's a unique situation to college sports. OOC scheduling has certainly not been a bright spot. However, I think your take is a little closed-minded in that BC is more than capable of existing in the situation they have put themselves in. No one cares because the teams fucking suck, not because they are losing to Louisville rather than Georgetown. (and look, after all this time we are still losing to Syracuse!)

From my perspective, having a eternally parochial outlook is one of BC's worst qualities and I don't think doubling down on that will solve any problems by itself. Perhaps a "BC Guy" will understand the limitations better than the average outsider, but putting those blinders on ignores some glaring deficiencies with the program.
 

berniecarbo1

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Don't quite know why you would think I am close minded. I want them to play a national football schedule (which now they do not) and they should play anyone, anywhere. As for basketball, all I hear is that Conte is a morgue. The teams suck and there is no life there because the plan they have followed for the last 10 or so years doesn't work. They can't recruit locally and the school has never been a big supporter of the program. I don't think it is parochial to seek out people who understand how the program works and where it falls in the sports scene in Boston. Most national programs have people running them that either are an alum or have been associated with the school for many years. The familiarity allows one to know what works and what doesn't from a scheduling and sports marketing perspective. We all know that the problem is a combination of things including poor marketing, old facilities and selling their soul to play in the ACC by turning the place into the worst game day experience in D1 football...by far.

Look, they will never be in the playoffs and their chances of being in New Years Day 6 bowl are remote. They would have to hurdle FSU, Clemson and Louisville in the same year and win the ACCCG. That would get them to a major bowl game but unless they went 13-0 they aren't going to a playoff game. So if that is the case, then they should schedule a monster OOC and attract fans to the games by playing circa late 1980's type schedules. At least they would have something to market. Right now they have nothing to market and soft peddling the schedule has proven to be counterproductive. Same with basketball. Personally I would go the route that Georgetown went in the early 80's and basically carve out the hoops program and set up a study program that would allow them to bring in players who could raise the program and yet give them all the supports necessary to graduate them in 5 years. I would also play a schedule like UMass used to, anyone, anywhere, anytime. Play national opponents in all parts of the country. Eventually the program would turn around.
 

4 6 3 DP

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Look, they will never be in the playoffs and their chances of being in New Years Day 6 bowl are remote. They would have to hurdle FSU, Clemson and Louisville in the same year and win the ACCCG. That would get them to a major bowl game but unless they went 13-0 they aren't going to a playoff game. So if that is the case, then they should schedule a monster OOC and attract fans to the games by playing circa late 1980's type schedules. At least they would have something to market. Right now they have nothing to market and soft peddling the schedule has proven to be counterproductive. Same with basketball. Personally I would go the route that Georgetown went in the early 80's and basically carve out the hoops program and set up a study program that would allow them to bring in players who could raise the program and yet give them all the supports necessary to graduate them in 5 years. I would also play a schedule like UMass used to, anyone, anywhere, anytime. Play national opponents in all parts of the country. Eventually the program would turn around.
College sports is pretty easy. Hire a competent coach and get better. If you hire unknowns, sometimes they're Dabo Swinney and sometimes they're Steve Addazio.

BC hired a MAC AD who aspires to play a MAC schedule and hire MAC coaches. It's no harder than that. If BC was a legitimate athletic program Brad Bates might be allowed to sell programs at games. He sure as hell wouldn't be making decisions. Instead we're headed to 0-26 in football and basketball.

Ohio St, Alabama, Florida, Texas, etc have struggled without elite coaching. You pony up and pay, or you have to get lucky. In Spaziani and Donahue and Addazio and Christian, we've gone 0-4. And we deserve to have done so, since Gene hired based on who'd call him coach Flip and Bates hires based on who reminds him most of being home at Miami of Ohio.

I'm bummed, I won't go to Ireland and I'd love to. I will not give a dime to this program until Bates is gone and we have a competent person making decisions.
 

gingerbreadmann

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Agreed with both of you. I probably got too hung up on the closed minded thing and didn't mean that towards you personally. I was trying to say what 4 6 3 said with the caveat that I don't think the solution needs to be a BC Guy necessarily. I'm pretty cynical when it comes to most schools getting super excited about hiring a guy with deep ties to the program (i.e. Harbaugh at UM) -- it can be a positive thing but I think a lot of fans and administrators put too much stock in it, that's all. In this case it brings me back to fans complaining about Tom O'Brien not being a BC Guy when we all got tired of him going 9-4 every year and wanted an excuse to move on. I just think it can be a bit of a red herring.

That said, Bates' decision making and outlook for the program has brought us to where we are today and if there ever were a guy who doesn't get it, it's him.
 

kenneycb

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Eli Carter is 1-15 tonight and has taken around 30% of BC's shots with 3 minutes to go.

Edit: 1-17 and up to 33% of total shots.
 

BigSoxFan

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Eli Carter is 1-15 tonight and has taken around 30% of BC's shots with 3 minutes to go.

Edit: 1-17 and up to 33% of total shots.
Only a BC coach would let a 24 year-old hog minutes and shots from freshmen during a 7 win season.
 

BigSoxFan

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BC is losing 38-6 to a 10-16 Wake Forest team. Jim Christian was a great hire, Bates!
 

Greg29fan

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BC is losing 38-6 to a 10-16 Wake Forest team. Jim Christian was a great hire, Bates!
Not to mention Wake Forest has one win in the league and suspended their best player and kicked another player off the team this week.
 

RedOctober3829

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The announcement sounded promising. Boston College, criticized for what it didn’t have in terms of athletic facilities and amenities, was announcing a $200 million athletic funding project.

Improvements in recreation sports, an upgrade in baseball facilities and recreational sports.

All items which would improve the quality of life for students at Boston College.

But then near the end of the release was this statement: DISCUSSIONS will begin about building an indoor football practice facility. No where is improving the basketball facilities mentioned.

DISCUSSIONS

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

BC, which is President Father William Leahy and athletic director Brad Bates,oesn’t get it.

They have the dog walking the man. All the improvements which have been announced and funded will do ALMOST NOTHING to improve the profile of the new revenue producing sports, football and men’s basketball.

They are the cash cows of college athletics. Big time college football and basketball has become an arms race of facilities and amenities for recruits who come to schools as much for locker rooms and weight rooms as class rooms.

Even the academic blue bloods such as Notre Dame, Virginia, Duke, North Carolina, Stanford recognize that. That is why they all have upgraded their facilities and amenities for those sports.

Upgrading means that better athletes will come to your school. Better athletes will bring more wins which will bring more money. So it goes.

BC doesn’t get this. Never has, never will. BC football and basketball are bottom feeders in the Atlantic Coast Conference in football and basketball for a variety of reasons, with lack of facilities being a prime reason why four and five star recruits go elsewhere.

Right now, if you are a quality student, a quality athletes, why would you choose BC over any of the other above mentioned schools.

You wouldn’t. You haven’t.

Which is why BC is where it is right now.
http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=13338
 

RedOctober3829

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Meh, hard to believe they'd make this announcement without having some idea that it's going to get approved.
The bigger point is why it's taking so long to get an indoor facility. In this environment of spending in big-time college athletics, the thought of an ACC team without an indoor facility(especially one in the Northeast) is pretty bad. Obviously they need upgrades to the baseball and softball facilities at BC but an indoor facility should be top priority. It's the top priority at a couple of America East schools I know of. It's a private school so they don't have any state funds hoops to jump through.
 

berniecarbo1

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I think Blauds was trying to say they funded $200M to upgrade the Plex and put up a baseball park, as part of the Master Plan and will address the Indoor football facility further down the road in the development process. Nothing new except that they are acting on the next phase of the Master Plan. (First was the new building at Thomas Moore hall, now this). I agree that they should be using some of that $$ for the football facility as well as Alumni and Conte upgrades, but they do need to build a new student recreation complex as that facility is about 40 years old and not competitive with similar facilities at other schools.

Is it really a surprise that the Adminstration doesn;t care about big time sports?? This is nothing new. Again it goes to the poinbt many have made...the apathy and irrelevance of BC athletics is grounded in the administration. If people just stop going, maybe that will get their attention.........then again, maybe not.
 

RedOctober3829

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I think Blauds was trying to say they funded $200M to upgrade the Plex and put up a baseball park, as part of the Master Plan and will address the Indoor football facility further down the road in the development process. Nothing new except that they are acting on the next phase of the Master Plan. (First was the new building at Thomas Moore hall, now this). I agree that they should be using some of that $$ for the football facility as well as Alumni and Conte upgrades, but they do need to build a new student recreation complex as that facility is about 40 years old and not competitive with similar facilities at other schools.

Is it really a surprise that the Adminstration doesn;t care about big time sports?? This is nothing new. Again it goes to the poinbt many have made...the apathy and irrelevance of BC athletics is grounded in the administration. If people just stop going, maybe that will get their attention.........then again, maybe not.
A new student rec center should not be of any concern when it comes to athletics. At an ACC school, athletics should be using private donations to build whatever they want. Where is the $200 million coming from? Is the ACC revenue sharing money being used to fund the rec center? They should be using that $19 million a year to build and upgrade their facilities. They need an indoor facility, a new arena, and a basketball practice facility.
 

BigSoxFan

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We need some non-shitty players first. But the administration is clearly Vanderbilt'ing the ACC money.
 

kenneycb

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The bigger point is why it's taking so long to get an indoor facility. In this environment of spending in big-time college athletics, the thought of an ACC team without an indoor facility(especially one in the Northeast) is pretty bad. Obviously they need upgrades to the baseball and softball facilities at BC but an indoor facility should be top priority. It's the top priority at a couple of America East schools I know of. It's a private school so they don't have any state funds hoops to jump through.
They have Brighton to jump through, which has proven to be a sizable hurdle for pretty much anything BC-related.
 

Dave Stapleton

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All of a sudden Blauds is an expert and reliable? All indications are this is for real and will be done on an acceptable time frame.
 

berniecarbo1

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It will get done but it is behind the demolition of Edmonds and the constructon of the new Plex on that footprint, contemporaneously with the construction of the baseball/softball complex at Brighton. That piece of the plan will take about 2 1/2 years. Then there is the demolition of the current Plex and construction of the fieldhouse. That will take about 18 months from commencement date. So if you add it all up, they start this in June and have the ribbon cutting ceremony for the fieldhouse in the Fall of 2019 or the Spring of 2020. Good that its on the agenda but you won't see it for another 3-4 years. And lower campus will be a constructon site for the next 4 years as well. Not the greatest place to be hosting 44,500 fans on Fall weekends that's for sure. Maybe thats why they put together these horrible OOC schedules.....keep the crowds down so the have better pedestrian flow and reduce the risk expsoure of public liability around the bulldozers, cranes, lay down areas and huge empty holes on Lower Campus. Jeez...Bates is a genius after all!
 

Dave Stapleton

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Not true. The field house will likely be done as an amendment to the current master plan for Shea field and replace the dorms. Everything I've heard is it will probably be done within 2 years.
 

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I was flying back from FL yesterday, saw the VT/BC game on the little TV. Conte looked incredibly empty, like HS gym sized crowd. I checked the box score - 1018 was official attendance.

Ouch.
It's Troy Bell's frosh season all over again when we sucked and got like 5 fans / game. The problem is that we don't have a Troy Bell to fix things. This program is beyond fucked.
 

doldmoose34

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those of you who follow me on twitta will be shocked after I went off on the whole hoop program last sunday night, (24-2 Wake when i flipped over from the golf) I went to the GTech game yesterday. Price was right as myself and a couple of the guys i sit with went to the football open house, nice kid focused, and got freebies

we got our moneys worth

anyway down 15 at the half we were planning our exit, but figured we'd leave when it got to 20 but the team developed some grit ball and pride and fought back to make it a game in the second, closing to 3 only to lose by 5.

Carter has to be the ultimate Plus/Minus on a team, on the plus side he is the only one who can score consitantly, but when you're launching 100 3s a game some are bound to go in, Minus in one has to wonder if in the long run, knowing this team of frosh were going nowhere and going to get the shit knocked out of them every night if it wouldn't have been better off playing a frosh guard all the time for experience..

whatever We Suck
 

gingerbreadmann

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We are aware. If you are indulging in schadenfreude this article will probably bring you more than a simple tweet. BTW- none of this would be happening if the refs didn't make a clear touchdown magically disappear in Durham :)