2016-2017 NBA Game Thread

[Sam Ray Not]

If Westbrook averages a triple double, he's winning MVP regardless.

Hmm, could be. But if (hypothetically) Westbrook averages 30-10-11 on mediocre efficiency (~.530 ts) for a .500 team, and beats out Harden who has 30-8-12 on high efficiency (~.630 ts) for a 55-win, #4 seed — for no other reason than the fact that people like base-ten numbers — I will find that stupid even by the normally silly standards of MVP voting.

I still feel like Harden has the inside track after losing so narrowly two years ago (in the same way Draymond Green has the inside track for DPOY after losing two straight squeakers to Kawhi).

 

[Sam Ray Not]

... ugh, and, Mike Conley now out indefinitely ("at least 6-8 weeks") with a serious-sounding back fracture. Totally sucks for him and Grizz fans (he had playing like a top 5 PG, after RW, CP and SC) and makes the #4 seed in the West that much more attainable for the Rockets. (I might put my money on Utah, though).

 

[sox311]

I know players like Russell and Wilt averaged stupid statistics like 20 rebounds and 9 blocks a game during some seasons many years back.

Russ had 15 assists on 11/26 and 18 rebounds on 11/28. (not to mention 17 assists on 11/25) I wonder if anyone has ever had 15+ of counting stats besides points on back to back games in different categories as Russ just did. Not too many players in history who have ever tallied 15 assists in one game had the talent to also snag 15 rebounds in a game none-the-less in back to back games.

A long way to go, but Oscar averaged 30.8 points, 12.5 rebounds, and 11.4 assists

 

[BigSoxFan]

Just looking at Westbrook's box score tires me out. His energy level is simply amazing to me. Going to be real interesting to see how he ages.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Just looking at Westbrook's box score tires me out. His energy level is simply amazing to me. Going to be real interesting to see how he ages.

Age? Ha. Not happening.

He will collapse in on himself like a dying sun on the way to dunking against the Pelicans in a late January game a few years from now.

/Shea Serrano and everyone else who writes about the Association in 2016...

 

[Kliq]

If Clint Capela gets a big extension what percentage of it can Harden command? 65%?

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Tonight, in addition to the Nets' Sean Kilpatrick emerging to lead them on sure to come 40 game winning streak, tonight saw Giannis Antetokounmpo put up 34 points on 13-19 shooting along with 12 boards, five steals and two blocks in Milwaukee's defeat of the Cleveland hangovers.

In other news, the Brow scored 41 points on 14-27 shooting (holy shit!) with 16 boards (holy fucking shit), four steals and two blocks in the Pelicans beatdown of the Lakers. I wonder if the Pelicans would consider just ditching everyone not named Jrue Holiday and just signing D-Leaguers to save some dough. Oh...wait...they kind of have already done that.

Free the Brow!!!***


***And by "free" I mean trade him to Boston for a bunch of picks and any of the wings on the roster whom they fancy.

 

[Devizier]

almost every game last night was an upset (HOU @ UTA was a pickem), including some pretty significant ones (Clippers @ Nets, Magic @ Spurs (!), Bucks @ Cavaliers (!!).

 

[Sam Ray Not]

Clippers @ Nets, Magic @ Spurs (!), Bucks @ Cavaliers (!!).

The Cavs/Bucks game was in Milwaukee, but yeah: one of the weirdest NBA nights in recent memory. If anything, I'd give the extra exclamation points to the Spurs, who were at home (now an inexplicable 4-4 at home, after going 40-1 there last season) and the Clips, who should have been motivated coming off two straight losses, and were facing a sorry, Lin-less Nets squad that had to play Isaiah Whitehead and Sean Kilpatrick — whoever they are — a combined 93 minutes.

So I guess with the dust cleared, it kinda looks like the current top team in the league is — shocker — the lovable losers from Oakland, with their early-season chemistry issues? 12 straight wins, 16-2 overall, 156-26 in the Kerr era (187-40 including playoffs), with now 104 straight regular season games played without as many two straight losses. When you consider the grueling NBA schedule, with all the B2B games and cross-country flights (something Jaylen Brown recently said was an unexpectedly rough part of the NBA, physically; and something the Warriors have done more of in terms of miles traveled than any other NBA team in each of the last two seasons), going 104 straight games without dropping two in a row is fairly insane.

Then again, so is 156-26. That's like putting up a killer 56-26 season (which would have thrilled me as a Ws fan when Kerr took over, and been the second-highest win total in the 70-year history of the Warriors franchise) ... and then going out and winning 100 straight.

 

[Sam Ray Not]

Confirmation of an especially bizarre night: only the 2nd time in NBA history, on a day with six or more games, where the team with the better record lost every game. And most of the record differentials and point differentials were not small.

 

[Kliq]

If you want to dig up the 2014 draft thread you will see me praising Sean Kilpatrick. The guy was a really good player at Cincinnati, had NBA size and could really fill it up; doesn't surprise me he can do things in the NBA.

Clippers are headed for another disappointing postseason; probably a six game loss to OKC in the first round due to some horrible blowup that was somehow not the fault of either the players or the coach.

 

[Buster Olney the Lonely]

Kings at Sixers canceled because the floor was wet. Boogie was on the floor with two mops.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

That rookie point guards take time is exactly my point. What's the rush? 9 assist and 5 steal games aside, Dunn hasn't shown a ton and seems to have fallen behind Jones in the PG rotation.

Based on what......the second half of one game where Thibs was so bent out of shape that he didn't bring Rubio or Dunn back into the game? Dunn started when Rubio was out, has been the guy subbing for Rubio late first quarter and the start of the 4th for all but the one game you point toward. Jones has been entering later for LaVine as he again did tonight. Everything I'm hearing is that Minnesota loves Dunn and is extremely happy with his work ethic, etc.

 

[AMS25]

Scotty Brooks returns to Chesapeake Energy Arena and gets a standing O. (Thunder fans being classy.) Russell gets his fourth triple double in a row (on an atrocious shooting night), and the Thunder win four in a row. Nice to see a lot of Thunder players score double digits. Kanter, Sabonis, Oladipo, Roberson, Adams, and Westbrook.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Kings at Sixers canceled because the floor was wet. Boogie was on the floor with two mops.

I don't know that I would refer to Rudy Gay and Kosta Koufos in those terms.

 

[jon abbey]

Karl-Anthony Towns obliterates his previous career high with 47 but gets zero help and MIN loses to NYK on a Melo jumper with two seconds left.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Based on what......the second half of one game where Thibs was so bent out of shape that he didn't bring Rubio or Dunn back into the game? Dunn started when Rubio was out, has been the guy subbing for Rubio late first quarter and the start of the 4th for all but the one game you point toward. Jones has been entering later for LaVine as he again did tonight. Everything I'm hearing is that Minnesota loves Dunn and is extremely happy with his work ethic, etc.

Based on the fact that Jones played more minutes than Dunn in 3 of their last 4 games.

I don't know if it's permanent or not, and I'm not saying that Minnesota isn't happy with Dunn, etc. I just think the notion that they're handing this team over to him in a couple of months seems at odds with rumors about Thibs' desire for more vets and to compete right now. If Dunn's the guy they want running this team by the Spring, it's strange to me that he's playing 10 minutes a game and losing any minutes at all to Jones a quarter of the way into the season. I mean, let's not forget that Thibs is also the President of Basketball Ops there. If the organization's plan is to fast track Dunn, I feel like they'd be fast-tracking Dunn.

 

[ElUno20]

If you want to dig up the 2014 draft thread you will see me praising Sean Kilpatrick. The guy was a really good player at Cincinnati, had NBA size and could really fill it up; doesn't surprise me he can do things in the NBA.

Clippers are headed for another disappointing postseason; probably a six game loss to OKC in the first round due to some horrible blowup that was somehow not the fault of either the players or the coach.

Disappointing end, yes. But they will beat the living sht out of OKC in a series. That's a bad example

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Karl-Anthony Towns obliterates his previous career high with 47 but gets zero help and MIN loses to NYK on a Melo jumper with two seconds left.

He was virtually unstoppable and it was all in the post (0-3 from deep). Imagine if he Wiggins and LaVine can get going at the same time...

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Based on the fact that Jones played more minutes than Dunn in 3 of their last 4 games.

I don't know if it's permanent or not, and I'm not saying that Minnesota isn't happy with Dunn, etc. I just think the notion that they're handing this team over to him in a couple of months seems at odds with rumors about Thibs' desire for more vets and to compete right now. If Dunn's the guy they want running this team by the Spring, it's strange to me that he's playing 10 minutes a game and losing any minutes at all to Jones a quarter of the way into the season. I mean, let's not forget that Thibs is also the President of Basketball Ops there. If the organization's plan is to fast track Dunn, I feel like they'd be fast-tracking Dunn.

A couple things. One, Tyus Jones is a really good basketball player......this isn't a Phil Pressey here. He's also only 20 and is going to play a long time in this league. Secondly, Jones coming in for LaVine later in the quarter and pairing with Dunn half the time because he's a better option than Brandon Rush or John Lucas as the 4th guard. He's been getting 4th quarter minutes the past few games because he's been playing pretty well and Rubio has been awful. Third, there is a huge learning curve as a rookie PG.....it took Stockton 3 years to get it and Nash a couple too. There is no fast track to getting a kid ready to take over by force feeding him minutes......I believe that for any position on the floor but even moreso at the 1.

And finally......I openly question if this team could completely implode under Hitler. Rubio is having arguably his worst year since he entered the league under this micromanager and he is managing Dunn with these same instructions. It will be interesting to see how Dunn progresses once he's given the ball full time.......I'd be lying if I wasn't a little concerned with Thibs again being in over his head and unable to lead.

 

[Devizier]

With Mike Conley going down for an extended period, I would think that the Grizzlies' window just closed. I wonder if there's a team in the league that will swing a deal for the old expiring guys on that roster (Randolph, Allen, and maybe Carter).

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

A couple things. One, Tyus Jones is a really good basketball player......this isn't a Phil Pressey here. He's also only 20 and is going to play a long time in this league. Secondly, Jones coming in for LaVine later in the quarter and pairing with Dunn half the time because he's a better option than Brandon Rush or John Lucas as the 4th guard. He's been getting 4th quarter minutes the past few games because he's been playing pretty well and Rubio has been awful. Third, there is a huge learning curve as a rookie PG.....it took Stockton 3 years to get it and Nash a couple too. There is no fast track to getting a kid ready to take over by force feeding him minutes......I believe that for any position on the floor but even moreso at the 1.

And finally......I openly question if this team could completely implode under Hitler. Rubio is having arguably his worst year since he entered the league under this micromanager and he is managing Dunn with these same instructions. It will be interesting to see how Dunn progresses once he's given the ball full time.......I'd be lying if I wasn't a little concerned with Thibs again being in over his head and unable to lead.

And again, the bolded is my point. How is what you've said in bold -- which you've said twice -- consistent with the narrative that Rubio's out the door this season and this team will be Dunn's?

As for the second paragraph, I keep reading it and I'm not really clear on what it means. Are you calling Thibs Hitler? Or are you saying this team is so talented that even if Hitler was coaching them, they might not be able to implode? But they might implode under Thibodeau?

 

[HomeRunBaker]

And again, the bolded is my point. How is what you've said in bold -- which you've said twice -- consistent with the narrative that Rubio's out the door this season and this team will be Dunn's?

I actually posted this prior to the season when i was personally told by his father what the teams plans were for the PG position in moving Rubio before the trade deadline which then hit the news/rumor wire two days later. Not dropping names or anything only sharing relevant information just as I had prior in the Friars college thread over the past few years. It isnt really fair to Team Rubio to continue holding him hostage as the lame duck PG which is the real narrative in play.

As for the second paragraph, I keep reading it and I'm not really clear on what it means. Are you calling Thibs Hitler? Or are you saying this team is so talented that even if Hitler was coaching them, they might not be able to implode? But they might implode under Thibodeau?

I've been consistent on Thibs since he was in Boston based on what I've heard of him and his personality. He's a dictator who doesn't bend which will alienate veterans and it is that same demeanor which doesn't allow him to relate to millennials. He's a great great assistant coach......I don't feel his dictatorship will play well up in Minny. So far it's going as I expected and when these rookie deals for Towns, Wiggins and LaVine come up he had better have won them over by then. Nothing in his track records suggests that he will change his ways. Keep scheduling double session practices in-season following a loss......that doesn't fly in this league.

 

[luckiestman]

Houston GSW is a good game. Kerr is trying hard to get thrown out.

 

[sox311]

The Jazz are really underperforming as a team, but still have a good record. Injuries have killed them, and Diaw giving them absolutely nothing has also hurt. If they get healthy and start to gel they will for sure give some team fits. Gordon looks to be growing as a start and Joe Johnson just fits in so well there.

 

[luckiestman]

I don't know how the walking tantrum doesn't get ejected every night.

I really wish the Cs had a guy like Capela. This kid is legit

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

This game is epic

 

[luckiestman]

This game is epic

Too many fools sleeping and missing this monster game

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Too many fools sleeping and missing this monster game

Best game of the regular season thus far my never naked friend.

 

[tbrep]

Best game of the regular season thus far my never naked friend.

Was just about to say this (minus the naked friend reference) - most enjoyable game I've seen this season and we're headed to OT!

 

[tbrep]

Houston's offense has been atrocious in OT - one contested, last-second 30 foot heave after another. And yet they're somehow still tied

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Holy shit Gordon!!

 

[tbrep]

Houston opens up a 6 point lead in double OT after Curry fouls out and GS go 0-7 from the field.

Green with some great hustle plays on defense but also commits a costly Flagrant 1 on Harden.

 

[luckiestman]

Why didn't Beverly just make that layup

 

[luckiestman]

Goodnight you Princes of Maine, you Kings of New England.

Crazy thought: both Celtics and Warriors would be better if Horford went to GS and Durant to Cs( this part is obvious)

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I really wish the Cs had a guy like Capela. This kid is legit

How could Danny The Drafter ever pass on James Young though?

I recall Kevin Pelton had Capela #2 on that years WARP projections........but then again had Smart at #1. Both silly imo when you had Wiggins and Embiid coming out but noteworthy nonetheless.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Goodnight you Princes of Maine, you Kings of New England.

Crazy thought: both Celtics and Warriors would be better if Horford went to GS and Durant to Cs( this part is obvious)

People realize that the Warriors are on pace for on pace for like 69 wins, right? I'm pretty baffled by how many people talk about them like they're underperforming.

 

[luckiestman]

People realize that the Warriors are on pace for on pace for like 69 wins, right? I'm pretty baffled by how many people talk about them like they're underperforming.

I'm not saying they're bad and remember, they were already historically good. I admit to only seeing 5 or 6 of their games. When I watch them this year I don't feel like I'm watching a team that is any better than the one I watched least year and that is awfully strange seeing as they added a top 5 player.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

This is a great question and I am struggling with recency bias. I mean, LaVine looked unstoppable at times on Saturday night while Wiggins looked pedestrian. They are both explosive but both lack consistency as is to be expected at their relatively young ages. I lean Wiggins right now given that as he develops further, he will not only be able go create his shot from anywhere but also physically dominate most guys who guard him on any given night.

Frankly, I am more interested on how the two play together. If they develop a good chemistry with each other and Towns, I think the sky is the limit for these guys. I would love to see what someone like a Brad Stevens could do with this core though to be fair to Thibs, as I noted upthread, their bench is thinner than Brandon Ingram on a carb free diet.

Edit: Whoops, hit post way too soon.

I don't think this is really even particularly close. Wiggins is a far superior player. LaVine is a truly terrible defender, and lacks any sort of awareness on that end.

That people are even posing this question makes it obvious to me that the smart decision, for Minnesota, would be to make LaVine the youth they ship out. Dieng's an obvious choice, but he just doesn't net you enough of a return. LaVine on the other hand has played himself to a place where there are likely teams who overvalue him relative to what he actually is/will be.

Let's say you could get Ibaka and a an upside guy like Hezonja for a LaVine centered package. Or were able to take back a bad contract from Portland and get McCollum for a package built around LaVine and Dieng. Or could swap him for Faried and one of Denver's dozen young 2s (Barton/Murray/Harris or even Wilson Chandler)? Isn't that something you need to seriously consider if you're Minnesota?

 

[TheRooster]

I'm not saying they're bad and remember, they were already historically good. I admit to only seeing 5 or 6 of their games. When I watch them this year I don't feel like I'm watching a team that is any better than the one I watched least year and that is awfully strange seeing as they added a top 5 player.

Not strange at all. If they are already as good as they were last year, how good might they be in 3 months when they start to gel? Chemistry matters and takes time.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I'm not saying they're bad and remember, they were already historically good. I admit to only seeing 5 or 6 of their games. When I watch them this year I don't feel like I'm watching a team that is any better than the one I watched least year and that is awfully strange seeing as they added a top 5 player.

It's simply the Law of Diminishing Returns in play. Signing Durant is a much greater risk than it is a reward imo. Very little upside as they were pounding against their ceiling last season.

 

[mauf]

Draymond Green kicking James Harden in the head intentionally last night is the perfect opportunity for Adam Silver to drop the hammer, rather than waiting for Green to injure someone. Make him sit for five games.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Draymond Green kicking James Harden in the head intentionally last night is the perfect opportunity for Adam Silver to drop the hammer, rather than waiting for Green to injure someone. Make him sit for five games.

I'm as critical as anyone of Draymonds antics but if that play occurred with anyone else it's a play on. There was nothing intentional about that nor was it even a kick as he was fouled on his lift and left off balance.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

It's simply the Law of Diminishing Returns in play. Signing Durant is a much greater risk than it is a reward imo. Very little upside as they were pounding against their ceiling last season.

This is a false choice, though. They didn't have the option to just roll back last year's team as is. Harrison Barnes was a free agent, and got a max offer. Faced with the option of Harrison Barnes at 22m or Kevin Durant at 26m, is that really a difficult choice?

 

[southshoresoxfan]

How could Danny The Drafter ever pass on James Young though?

I recall Kevin Pelton had Capela #2 on that years WARP projections........but then again had Smart at #1. Both silly imo when you had Wiggins and Embiid coming out but noteworthy nonetheless.

Love when you rail on late first rd draft picks likw multiple other teams didnt pass on an ultra raw big who cant shoot a lick.

Really makes for great insightful posts that we all enjoy.

 

[luckiestman]

Love when you rail on late first rd draft picks likw multiple other teams didnt pass on an ultra raw big who cant shoot a lick.

Really makes for great insightful posts that we all enjoy.

Relax, we're chill dudes in the Cs forum. There are no deflated balls and/or court cases.

 

[mauf]

I'm as critical as anyone of Draymonds antics but if that play occurred with anyone else it's a play on. There was nothing intentional about that nor was it even a kick as he was fouled on his lift and left off balance.

I disagree that Draymond's kicking of other players is unintentional, but if it is, he's had plenty of time to adjust his reflexes, and he hasn't. Time for Silver to send a message.

If another player committed that foul, it would be a flagrant 1, and that would be the end of it, because we'd give the player the benefit of the doubt as to intent. We're way past that point with Draymond -- as I said, even if it's some sort of unconventional form or something, his failure to fix it renders these fouls intentional at this point.

 

[AMS25]

I'm as critical as anyone of Draymonds antics but if that play occurred with anyone else it's a play on. There was nothing intentional about that nor was it even a kick as he was fouled on his lift and left off balance.

Westbrook is a kicker, too. In the Thunder's recent loss to the Pistons (11/14/16), Westbrook was charged with a technical foul after he accidentally kicked Kentavious Caldwell-Pope square in the groin. So, it's not just Draymond who's being punished for kicking.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I disagree that Draymond's kicking of other players is unintentional, but if it is, he's had plenty of time to adjust his reflexes, and he hasn't. Time for Silver to send a message.

If another player committed that foul, it would be a flagrant 1, and that would be the end of it, because we'd give the player the benefit of the doubt as to intent. We're way past that point with Draymond -- as I said, even if it's some sort of unconventional form or something, his failure to fix it renders these fouls intentional at this point.

1. Is it even possible for a human to fix their reflexes? How are reflexes considered intention to where the player should be penalized? I will say that at least one of Draymonds in the past was absolutely intentional. To me this one clearly wasn't as neither his foot nor knee extended it was only his leg that was airborne upon contract.

2. The foul was on the Rockets player. If you were to give another player the benefit of the doubt there wouldn't have been a foul even called on him.

3. It really ain't that unconventional. It's fairly common for a player to spread their limbs on contact. We've seen many do this with their arms as well as their legs. Again if it isn't intentional what is there to fix? It's not illegal if it isn't intentional.

 

[Kliq]

Draymond cost his team the NBA title because he thought it would be a good idea to punch the leagues best player in the balls during a finals game. There really should be a debate about intentional/unintentional; his history speaks for itself.