2017 Gold Cup: Our B team is better than your B team

AusTexSoxFan

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Gold Cup time people!

Tourney starts on Friday. Outside of U.S. and Mexico, I think Costa Rica has a team that can contend for the title.

Fun fact: Florent Malouda, who played in the 2006 World Cup final for France, will represent French Guiana in the Gold Cup.
 

Senator Donut

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Fun fact: Florent Malouda, who played in the 2006 World Cup final for France, will represent French Guiana in the Gold Cup.
That is a fun fact. In case you're curious as to why Malouda was eligible for a nationality switch after playing in a World Cup, French Guiana is not a FIFA member.
 

Infield Infidel

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This has to be the least consequential GC in memory. Mexico and US both playing B-teams, no jobs on the line really. I really hope they don't do what they did last time and have the winners of this GC in a playoff with the winners of the 2019 for the 2021 Confederations cup spot.
 

InstaFace

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I'm excited to see who might actually help us in the Sept & Oct WCQs, who isn't already a regular with the true first team. Who's that list limited to?

Off the top of my head:
- Dwyer
- Villafana
- Acosta
- Arriola

I assume Morris, Hedges, the goalies etc don't have a realistic path to earning WCQ playtime, so is that the list of people to actually watch during the games?
 

Joe D Reid

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This has to be the least consequential GC in memory. Mexico and US both playing B-teams, no jobs on the line really. I really hope they don't do what they did last time and have the winners of this GC in a playoff with the winners of the 2019 for the 2021 Confederations cup spot.
FIFA hasn't committed to running the Confederations Cup. They can't go with the usual plan of running it in the summer of 2021 in the 2022 WC host nation (Qatar) because all the players would burst into flame. And they can't blow up another club season by running the CC the winter before the WC. Yet more collateral damage of the decision to award the CC to Qatar.
 

Titans Bastard

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I'm excited to see who might actually help us in the Sept & Oct WCQs, who isn't already a regular with the true first team. Who's that list limited to?

Off the top of my head:
- Dwyer
- Villafana
- Acosta
- Arriola

I assume Morris, Hedges, the goalies etc don't have a realistic path to earning WCQ playtime, so is that the list of people to actually watch during the games?
Definitely add McCarty to the list.

Our DM depth has been non-existent since the decline of Beckerman. Bradley looks likely to stay there, but we need to have a legitimate backup to avoid another Jozy-injured-in-2014 type scenario. I don't think it's likely that McCarty starts over Bradley, but I do think it's very likely that he'll be regularly called up through the WC. It would also be conceivable to start McCarty at DM and Bradley at a box-to-box position or use both in some permutation of a 4-4-2 diamond.

Now that Pulisic seems to be settling into a central role for the US, there is plenty of opportunity on the wings. We have FJ and Nagbe, mostly. (I think Bedoya is useful as a late-game defensive sub, but I don't want to see his role expanded beyond that.) Arriola is an option here, but he hasn't been convincing, so I'd keep an eye on Rowe, too. It's a shame that Saeif got injured.

I don't think Morris is out of the question. Our top three forwards are Altidore, Wood, and Dempsey and it's quite open after that - Morris, Dwyer, Agudelo. Morris has been in poor form in 2017, but when he's hot his speed is awfully useful when you need to counterattack.

Lastly, John Brooks suffers more than his share of minor injuries. The #3 CB on the depth chart may well get playing time in WCQ and that spot is up for grabs among the CBs on the roster, plus Ream and possibly (though much less likely) Zimmerman.
 

InstaFace

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FIFA hasn't committed to running the Confederations Cup. They can't go with the usual plan of running it in the summer of 2021 in the 2022 WC host nation (Qatar) because all the players would burst into flame. And they can't blow up another club season by running the CC the winter before the WC. Yet more collateral damage of the decision to award the CC to Qatar.
They could play it in summer 2022 prior to the WC being played the following winter (I assume 2022-2023).

With multiple water breaks per half.
 

Titans Bastard

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If the 2021 Confederations Cup happens, it probably won't be in Qatar. There has been talk of hosting it elsewhere in the AFC region, but who knows.

Most of the world doesn't particularly like the tournament, so this could also be a convenient opportunity to simply kill it off once and for all. Nobody would shed a tear about this, except perhaps in CONCACAF. The end of the CC would further reduce opportunities to play good quality opposition following the advent of the UEFA Nations League (a.k.a. death of UEFA availability for friendlies).
 

SoxFanInCali

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California. Duh.
The only real use of the Confederations Cup is as a trial run for the host nation of the following year's World Cup. If it's not going to be held in Qatar, it really doesn't have much of a purpose.
 

Titans Bastard

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That is a fun fact. In case you're curious as to why Malouda was eligible for a nationality switch after playing in a World Cup, French Guiana is not a FIFA member.
CONCACAF has nixed this. Sort of.

And this is where this gets weird. As the spokesperson said, Malouda can play. CONCACAF can't physically stop him from taking the field. It can only rule the game a forfeit if he does. The LFG has been made aware that Malouda is ineligible but on Thursday evening as his team trained at Red Bull Arena, coach Jaïr Karam said on camera that Malouda "is going to play tomorrow." Karam added, "We're the minnows here, but we will do everything we can to give ourselves a chance."
 

Bosoxen

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Most of the world doesn't particularly like the tournament, so this could also be a convenient opportunity to simply kill it off once and for all. Nobody would shed a tear about this, except perhaps in CONCACAF. The end of the CC would further reduce opportunities to play good quality opposition following the advent of the UEFA Nations League (a.k.a. death of UEFA availability for friendlies).
CONCACAF's answer to losing UEFA is easy: CONMEBOL. The joint Copa America is a start but that relationship should be expanded. If World Cup qualifying is circling the drain anyway, why not create another tournament similar to the UEFA Nations League? This does nothing for the minnows of CONCACAF but no one cares about them anyway - except the people whose pockets they line.

The Gold Cup is fine and all - because who doesn't love a little CONCACAF thunder every once in a while - but the way it's completely disregarded every other year by the top teams makes it completely pointless. Which brings me to my next point: I love the thread title!
 

InstaFace

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Six official matches. Unless they make the Gold Cup final, that will bleed into WCQs, no?

I suppose it's a bit of a farce since he can direct the team's training and tactics even if he's not prowling the sidelines during the game, but still.
 

Bosoxen

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Six official matches. Unless they make the Gold Cup final, that will bleed into WCQs, no?

I suppose it's a bit of a farce since he can direct the team's training and tactics even if he's not prowling the sidelines during the game, but still.
As far as I know, qualifiers are regarded as official. I seem to recall that was part of the discussion following the suspension of Luis Suarez for the biting incident in the 2014 World Cup.

I'm ambivalent to this because a) he deserves it, b) the FMF clearly doesn't give a shit about this year's tournament, and c) he should have gotten canned by now anyway. Worst-case scenario, he misses three qualifiers vs Panama, Costa Rica and T&T. But, like IF alludes to, a monkey could run in-game tactics for those three games and they'd be fine.
 

Infield Infidel

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Canada up 3-0. Their first goal was off a set piece, the French Guiana keeper punched the ball and it ricocheted off a Canada player into the goal

Edit: Actually it's 3-2 now, we got a game

the dozens of people there seem to be enjoying it
 

Titans Bastard

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Canada's opener was their first goal at the Gold Cup since 2011. (And yes, they automatically qualify.)
 

Titans Bastard

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I really hate the trend of these useless pictures. Give me a diagram, dammit!

Anyway:

Dwyer
Rowe -- Corona -- Bedoya
McCarty -- Acosta
Villafaña -- Besler -- Gonzalez -- Zusi
Guzan
Or Bedoya at LM and Rowe at RM.
 

Senator Donut

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This is an awful trend. The Revs even post a video of their lineups, which annoys me even more because I know some of the social media folks.
I really hate the trend of these useless pictures. Give me a diagram, dammit!

Anyway:

Dwyer
Rowe -- Corona -- Bedoya
McCarty -- Acosta
Villafaña -- Besler -- Gonzalez -- Zusi
Guzan
Or Bedoya at LM and Rowe at RM.
Concacaf tweeted and deleted a lineup with Morrow instead of Acosta and Corona at striker. This makes much more sense.
 
Last edited:

Titans Bastard

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It seems like the heat is really draining both teams. Both sides are looking sluggish when defending in transition, but neither is doing a great job of pushing the tempo to exploit the space.

Rowe has been a bright spot, but the whole US attack needs to move more quickly.

Both Villafaña and Zusi have had sketchy moments defensively. Villafaña has created some danger going forward, at least.

Acosta is taking all the set pieces, but isn't having a very good day in that department compared to what I've seen him do with Dallas.
 

Titans Bastard

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A few other thoughts:

Dwyer has been working hard but hasn't been too involved because Corona hasn't been a good connection between him and the midfield. He's shown some decent hold up play so far. Bedoya has had a drab performance, too.
 

Titans Bastard

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Panama now generating real danger and missed a ridiculous sitter from inside the six.
 

Senator Donut

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Yikes, Panama is attacking Rowe's side of the formation. Swagudelo has injected some life into this attack, however.

 

Titans Bastard

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Zardes on for Rowe. Kelyn is probably the US MOTM so far, but his tank was getting empty.
 

Titans Bastard

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Ah, the Panamanian stretcher brigade has arrived. Typical.

I feel like Panama (play-acting) is in a perpetual duel with Honduras (dirty) to be the CONCACAFiest team in Central America.
 

Titans Bastard

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Ooh, penalty shout for Bedoya....maybe not a slam dunk, but that could have been given.

Morris was going to go on for Dwyer, but they pulled him back and now he's on for Bedoya -- which I think is the right move.
 

Titans Bastard

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Full time. That was a crap performance on the whole and the US was somewhat lucky not to lose.

I liked Rowe and Dwyer, but I don't think anyone else helped their cause. Zusi was bad, Villafaña was suspect defensively, Bedoya is anemic as a winger, Corona couldn't really get involved, and Acosta+McCarty were worse than they were against Ghana on both sides of the ball.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Full time. That was a crap performance on the whole and the US was somewhat lucky not to lose.

I liked Rowe and Dwyer, but I don't think anyone else helped their cause. Zusi was bad, Villafaña was suspect defensively, Bedoya is anemic as a winger, Corona couldn't really get involved, and Acosta+McCarty were worse than they were against Ghana on both sides of the ball.
yup. they had no clue how to attack a team that was sitting back. The US cannot build an attack unles its in transition. Very poor today
 

Dummy Hoy

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It was my understanding that Panama has brought a full strength side to this tournament. Anyone have input on that?
 

Dummy Hoy

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I was looking more for confirmation- I agree with you 100%. This generation of players has made Panama (?!) a legit WCQ contender; I'd really like to see them break through next October.
 

Titans Bastard

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Panama's home draw against Honduras and our road draw at Mexico was a back-breaker as far as Panama's chances of capitalizing on the slow US start to the Hex.

Still, I think they have a good chance of finishing fourth and earning a winnable matchup against Asia's #5 in the playoffs. Panama are only two points ahead of Honduras, but the Catrachos have a brutal schedule remaining; home vs MEX and USA and away vs CRC and T&T. Honduras' next game, @T&T, is absolutely huge for them.
 

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Pretty sure they left some of their key players home. #1 goaltender was out for sure, as was their team captain CB Roman Torres. Might have been 1-2 other starters sitting as well. This was a weaker team than we faced in the WCQ, though obviously so was the US side.
 

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@trekfan55 is obviously the right person to answer the A-vs-B team question, but if you compare the lineup from last night vs the lineup from the WCQ at Costa Rica a month ago, they differ as follows:

GK: Penedo then (125 caps), Calderon (23) now
RB: Machado then (70), Murillo (12) now
CB: Escobar (11) and R. Torres (70) then, Escobar and Chen (17) now
LB: same (Ovalle, 16)
RW: same (Gomez, 133 - moved to CAM for last night in a 4-3-1-2), but fielded Barcenas (19) at RW last night
CM: Godoy and Cooper (87) then, Godoy and Gomez (133) now
LW: Quintero (85) then, Tejada (102) now (was at SS @ CRC)
FW: Diaz (6) and Tejada then, Diaz and G. Torres (61) now

So that's 6 outfield players that are the same, but of the 5 replacements, G. Torres and Gomez were equally experienced, so there's only 3 relative newcomers playing this tournament. If it's not an A lineup, it looks like at least an A-/B+ lineup.
 

Senator Donut

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I was looking more for confirmation- I agree with you 100%. This generation of players has made Panama (?!) a legit WCQ contender; I'd really like to see them break through next October.
Panama definitely has a legitimate shot at winning. The 2015 Gold Cup featured the A teams of all the participating nations, yet the final could have been Jamaica against Panama, if it weren't for of the worse officiating I've ever seen.

Thus far, Panama has had an weird campaign in the hex. They've taken points from the United States, Mexico, and Costa Rica (in San Jose) but have not been able to get a win. They have yet to play a match in the US or Azteca. Edit, beaten to it by TB.
 

Titans Bastard

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Pretty sure they left some of their key players home. #1 goaltender was out for sure, as was their team captain CB Roman Torres. Might have been 1-2 other starters sitting as well. This was a weaker team than we faced in the WCQ, though obviously so was the US side.
Roman Torres has looked kind of old and bad (and injury-prone) for Seattle this season. Moving to younger CBs would certainly result in a loss of leadership, but for Panama it's getting about time for a transition from the Torres/Baloy years in the backline. In the short-term dropping Torres for the GC may be a downgrade, but it probably isn't a huge one at this point.
 

trekfan55

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For what it's worth, Torres actually said that it was a mutual decision between him and Bolillo Gomez to stay behind for the WC. Panama is not taking their absolute #1 team but it's close, and they have to try and replace Godoy and Torres (as many have said).

2015 still hurts like hell. Local TV refused to cover the final between Mexico and Jamaica, one of the two channels carrying the event got up, took off their jacket and tie and then they left the game on a small screen to fulfill their contract.

Also, Calderon seems to be next in line to replace Penedo at GK. He has done a good job when called upon, including the 3rd place match at the 2015 GC.

We can talk more about Panama's chances for the World Cup in the proper thread, but right now they have a good shot, considering they got a draw vs Costa Rica in San Jose. It was horrible that they almost lost to Honduras at home (and theor lone win in the HEX was vs Honduras on the road) but given the schedule it may work out. You never know though.

Back to the Gold Cup. This draw vs the US is very favorable, considering the rest of the group.
 

AusTexSoxFan

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Off to Houston in a few to cover tonight's games. If you can't get excited about French Guyana, I can't help you.

Honduras looked good in opener against Costa Rica, just couldn't finish chances.

Eager to see how the Ticos and Canada shake out. CR should win, but Canada are at last offering hope to fans.
 

Titans Bastard

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Malouda is in French Guiana's starting lineup tonight. Your move, CONCACAF.
 

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If CONCACAF are truly following FIFA rules for the Gold Cup (which they obviously didn't do for the Caribbean Cup), then Malouda is clearly cap tied and French Guiana will forfeit.