2017 NBA Draft Thread

Cesar Crespo

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Rubio is almost always rumored on his way out for some reason and Kris Dunn looks like a bust. Or at the very least, Kris Dunn shouldn't prevent you from getting IT4.
 

the moops

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Kris Dunn was a rookie who had a bad year. Minnesota is a team that is likely to finish top 10 in the lottery again next year. They have a ways to go and probably have enough offensive players already.

Those are the reasons they wouldn't have interest in IT.
 

cheech13

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If you're looking to trade IT I think the acquiring team would have to be a mid-tier team with an opening at PG and a need for more offense, but with a supporting cast that can pick up the slack defensively. Looking around the league and Dallas sort of fits the bill, and I guess Atlanta or Detroit could as well depending on how you feel about the guards they have. Maybe Utah or Indiana depending on how free agency goes.

Just not a lot of suitors out there that make sense and that's before you even get to the problem of what they'd give up that would both improve Boston long-term but keep them competitive in the short term.
 

JCizzle

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"We had eight draft picks and were trying to consolidate our picks to move up or out of the draft," Ainge said on the radio. "We were also making plans to go get Kevin Durant and Al Horford, so why in the world would we go there without Isaiah Thomas and try to have our best player traded for a lottery pick? It just doesn't make any sense at all."
http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/05/boston_celtics_trade_rumors_20_249.html

Not much has really changed, just replace Durant/Horford for Hayward. We're not trading him before FA opens, and I highly doubt they move him within the next couple of years. Danny loves the guy and rightfully so.
 

djbayko

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djbayko

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Jackson also canceled his workout with the Celtics. If this is true I imagine it's the Lakers.
This is old news from two days ago. Speculation I've read is that it was the 76ers. Hence the Lakers' 2nd look at both Josh Jackson (yesterday) and Ball (later this week). If the Lakers had made a promise, then presumably there would be no need for a 2nd Ball workout.

The Lakers interest in Jackson could be genuine, or they might be trying to induce the 76ers into a trade up.
 
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the moops

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My guess is Sacramento is going to freak out and do Sacramento things and trade the 5 and 10 to Phoenix so that they can get Fox. And Phoenix will laugh all day as they select Tatum with the 5th pick, who was the guy they would have taken with the 4th pick anyway.
 

DJnVa

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Lonzo backing off his "I'll only talk to the Lakers" stance? Not the Celtics though.

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/6/16/15816520/lonzo-ball-workout-celtics-lakers-nba-draft-2017-ucla-bruins

But why not work out for the Celtics?
If Ball’s dream destination is No. 2, at least working out for No. 1 could help his cause. Maybe the rookie guard thinks he’d blow Boston out of their seats, prompting them to select him over Washington’s Markelle Fultz with the top pick they acquired through a trade with Brooklyn.


But if the Lakers legitimately aren’t interested in selecting Ball with the second pick, there is no reason to hold out from a young, promising Celtics team that could have a hole to fill at point guard in the future.

Fultz was been pegged the unanimous No. 1 pick midway through the college basketball season, and it’s his explosive athleticism on both ends combined with his knock-down perimeter shooting that’s landed him atop this draft class. But Ball is an incredible talent, as well.
 
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smastroyin

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Seems Isaac has a promise from the Suns? And Jackson has a top 3 promise.

I know Sacto is kind of dumb sometimes, but if they hold out at 5, they are basically guaranteed one of Fox or Ball. Nevermind Tatum. Seems like it would be really dumb for them to trade up.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Seems Isaac has a promise from the Suns? And Jackson has a top 3 promise.

I know Sacto is kind of dumb sometimes, but if they hold out at 5, they are basically guaranteed one of Fox or Ball. Nevermind Tatum. Seems like it would be really dumb for them to trade up.
With so many of these threads branching off into what is covered in other threads I'll post this here also from the Hayward thread regarding Isaac and a promise......

That is the opposite of what this would mean. The purpose of a team offering a promise is to shut them down from working out for teams drafting ABOVE them so he doesn't show off his skill for them to steal him away.

Not working out for teams in Issac's range sounds to me like his agent Jeffrey Wechsler is protecting Isaac from something whether it is medical or otherwise is anyones guess. So much gamesmanship with these agents leading up to the draft it's all speculation.....the only thing I'm certain of is that there isn't a promise below 4 as that isn't how the promise works.
 

E5 Yaz

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Sam Strong ESPN Staff Writer
What will happen if Lonzo Ball falls to Boston at No. 3? LaVar says it will be unclear as to whose team it is. Sacramento at No. 5? They'll head overseas.
 

jacklamabe65

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I had the pleasure of teaching Donovan Mitchell in American history (solid student; very good analytical writer - his mother is a teacher) and Donnie also served as the captain of my baseball team from 7-9 grades where he played centerfield, pitched, and also played short. Excellent defense, great arm, so-so hitter (batted left), and a superb base stealer. Great kid overall. He stopped by and visited me two weeks ago in my classroom, and he seemed pumped up for the draft. A wonderful young man in every way.
 

OnWisc

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What will happen if Lonzo Ball falls to Boston at No. 3? LaVar says it will be unclear as to whose team it is. Sacramento at No. 5? They'll head overseas.
The international quote is surprising. I'd have gone with LaVar creating the BBBA and awarding himself the Los Angeles franchise.
 

chilidawg

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I had the pleasure of teaching Donovan Mitchell in American history (solid student; very good analytical writer - his mother is a teacher) and Donnie also served as the captain of my baseball team from 7-9 grades where he played centerfield, pitched, and also played short. Excellent defense, great arm, so-so hitter (batted left), and a superb base stealer. Great kid overall. He stopped by and visited me two weeks ago in my classroom, and he seemed pumped up for the draft. A wonderful young man in every way.
Nice, I always appreciate real world stories like this.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I had the pleasure of teaching Donovan Mitchell in American history (solid student; very good analytical writer - his mother is a teacher) and Donnie also served as the captain of my baseball team from 7-9 grades where he played centerfield, pitched, and also played short. Excellent defense, great arm, so-so hitter (batted left), and a superb base stealer. Great kid overall. He stopped by and visited me two weeks ago in my classroom, and he seemed pumped up for the draft. A wonderful young man in every way.
Great stuff thanks for sharing!
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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While we are all waiting and not getting any work to do, I thought this article - Premium picks rarely lead to titles - was an interesting read. Here's a part:

Since the lottery began in 1985, only four No. 1 picks have led the team that drafted them to an NBA championship: David Robinson, Tim Duncan, LeBron James and Kyrie Irving.

Robinson never won a title without Duncan, but Duncan won three without Robinson. So technically Duncan is the only No. 1 pick without a second No. 1 pick on the team to lead his original franchise to a title. LeBron left Cleveland before he won a title, spent four years in Miami and waited for the Cavs to assemble the necessary pieces (one of which was Irving) before rejoining them and leading them to a championship in 2016.

For No. 2 picks, it's even worse. The only two second picks since 1985 to win a title with the team that drafted them are Darko Milicic with the 2004
Pistons -- he averaged just 4.7 minutes for that team as an 18-year-old rookie -- and Jason Kidd, who won a title with the Mavericks 17 years after they drafted him.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Great stuff thanks for sharing!
Very cool to hear. I liked him a lot as a sleeper early on, but it seems he's gained lottery momentum in the past couple of months. He's got some of that Avery Bradley/Marcus Smart gamer in him, plus great athleticism. Nice to hear he's a good kid too.
 

moly99

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Since the lottery began in 1985, only four No. 1 picks have led the team that drafted them to an NBA championship: David Robinson, Tim Duncan, LeBron James and Kyrie Irving.
It always amazes me how many people forget the math of winning championships. In a thirty team league you have a very, very small number of rings to go around.

The percentage of free agent signings and trades that league to a championship is also very small. And then there's the fact that the teams that win the #1 pick tend to be really, really bad.
 

uk_sox_fan

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While we are all waiting and not getting any work to do, I thought this article - Premium picks rarely lead to titles - was an interesting read. Here's a part:

Since the lottery began in 1985, only four No. 1 picks have led the team that drafted them to an NBA championship: David Robinson, Tim Duncan, LeBron James and Kyrie Irving.

Robinson never won a title without Duncan, but Duncan won three without Robinson. So technically Duncan is the only No. 1 pick without a second No. 1 pick on the team to lead his original franchise to a title. LeBron left Cleveland before he won a title, spent four years in Miami and waited for the Cavs to assemble the necessary pieces (one of which was Irving) before rejoining them and leading them to a championship in 2016.
Arguably, Anthony Bennett and Andrew Wiggins (both #1 picks) also led to the Cavs' championship albeit in the physical form of Kevin Love.
 

DJnVa

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Pre-draft buzz: SA among those looking to get to 4 to take Josh Jackson. FWIW: Suns went hard after Aldridge when he was a UFA.

So if there's this much potential movement to get to 4, is word out among teams that Tatum is our guy?
 

luckiestman

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It always amazes me how many people forget the math of winning championships. In a thirty team league you have a very, very small number of rings to go around.

The percentage of free agent signings and trades that league to a championship is also very small. And then there's the fact that the teams that win the #1 pick tend to be really, really bad.

So to me, that's one(Duncan) not four. It's s little too cute on the LBJ angle and Kyrie and the Admiral are Robins not Batman.
 

cheech13

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Lebron went to Cleveland as a free agent and did so because it was his hometown team and they had a good young nucleus. The fact that they originally drafted him is completely irrelevant and shouldn't be connected in any way. Robinson and Kyrie were both the second best players on the teams that won titles, which I think is meaningful, but not in the way it's being presented.
 

cheech13

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Bennett was not an asset used to acquire Love, he was salary filler. He is quite probably the worst #1 pick ever made.
This gets stated over and over again, but it's wrong. While his value had fallen dramatically in his first year there was still an expectation that he'd round into a useful rotation player.

Look at the espn link after the trade: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/11397368/kevin-love-traded-minnesota-timberwolves-cleveland-cavaliers

"Adding Wiggins, Bennett and Young along with first-round draft pick Zach LaVine transforms the Wolves into a far more dynamic team around pass-happy point guard Ricky Rubio.

'With the additions of Wiggins, Bennett and Zach LaVine this summer, we have brought in three exciting young athletes who all have the potential to have an impact in this league," Saunders said. "All three of them complement each other very well and we believe they will be foundations of our team for years to come.'"
 

BaseballJones

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So to me, that's one(Duncan) not four. It's s little too cute on the LBJ angle and Kyrie and the Admiral are Robins not Batman.
Just a little pushback on the Robinson-Duncan piece from that 1998-99 Spurs' championship team.

Basic stats:
- Duncan: 21.7 points, 11.4 rebounds, 2.5 blocks, 2.9 turnovers, 0.9 steals, 2.4 assists, .495 fg%
- Robinson: 15.8 points, 10.0 rebounds, 2.4 blocks, 2.2 turnovers, 1.4 steals, 2.1 assists, .509 fg%

Edge: Duncan. Of course, Duncan played 39.3 minutes a game compared to Robinson's 31.7. So Robinson's per-36 minute numbers are better than Duncan's.

Anyway, edge Duncan. But then look at these advanced metrics:

Win Shares
- Duncan: 8.7
- Robinson: 8.4 (slight edge Duncan)

Win Shares per 48 min
- Duncan: .213
- Robinson: .261 (big edge Robinson)

Offensive Box Plus/Minus
- Duncan: 1.5
- Robinson: 2.2 (big edge Robinson)

Defensive Box Plus/Minus
- Duncan: 3.4
- Robinson: 5.3 (huge edge Robinson)

Value Over Replacement Player
- Duncan: 3.4
- Robinson: 3.7 (edge Robinson)

So the advanced metrics essentially all favor Robinson. The rate stats favor Robinson. The statistical edge for Duncan comes strictly as a result of more minutes played. Which is HUGE, because generally, your better players play more. Robinson was 33 and they used him more sparingly than the 22 year old Duncan. So I'll still agree that Duncan was the more important player for that team, but the gap between Batman and Robin is far greater than the gap between Duncan and Robinson in 1998-99. Robinson was absolutely indispensable to that team's championships. Not just a role player but an absolutely necessary core guy, the guy with the best rate stats on the team. They don't come close to winning that title without Robinson.
 

slamminsammya

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This gets stated over and over again, but it's wrong. While his value had fallen dramatically in his first year there was still an expectation that he'd round into a useful rotation player.
Man, what is he supposed to say? We are excited about Wiggins and Bennett is also there? Everyone in the league knew Bennett was a throw in. Dude was terrrrrrrrible!
 

JakeRae

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This gets stated over and over again, but it's wrong. While his value had fallen dramatically in his first year there was still an expectation that he'd round into a useful rotation player.

Look at the espn link after the trade: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/11397368/kevin-love-traded-minnesota-timberwolves-cleveland-cavaliers

"Adding Wiggins, Bennett and Young along with first-round draft pick Zach LaVine transforms the Wolves into a far more dynamic team around pass-happy point guard Ricky Rubio.

'With the additions of Wiggins, Bennett and Zach LaVine this summer, we have brought in three exciting young athletes who all have the potential to have an impact in this league," Saunders said. "All three of them complement each other very well and we believe they will be foundations of our team for years to come.'"
That shows the Wolves putting a positive spin on a recent trade. Of course they didn't say that the #1 pick from a year ago was part of the trade as salary filler. That doesn't make it not true that he was. Look at the general reporting of Bennett's rookie season and you'll see it repeatedly discussed as "historically bad" and his being on track to be the worst #1 pick ever. As just one example, look at https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nba/2014/1/14/5305228/anthony-bennett-rookie-season-statistics-cleveland-cavaliers.
 

cheech13

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Oh, he was really bad. I'm not denying that. He also didn't have the cache of a former no. 1 pick, but to describe him as being negative value or salary filler is an oversimplification. There was still talk about the shoulder or sleep apnea hindering performance and so he wasn't completely written off yet. There was still some hope that he'd be useful, if nothing approaching an All-Star or long-term started. It was really that second year when he went from disappointing to an absolute bust.
 

sox311

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That's what she said.
Is Boston the only team from the east in on any of these deals?

Cleveland I guess is mentioned for Butler and George, but all the other big names out there are being rumored to the West, or Boston.

Not including the Brooklyn and Washington moves I guess. but Kristaps and Buter/George are rumored going East to West.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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That shows the Wolves putting a positive spin on a recent trade. Of course they didn't say that the #1 pick from a year ago was part of the trade as salary filler. That doesn't make it not true that he was. Look at the general reporting of Bennett's rookie season and you'll see it repeatedly discussed as "historically bad" and his being on track to be the worst #1 pick ever. As just one example, look at https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nba/2014/1/14/5305228/anthony-bennett-rookie-season-statistics-cleveland-cavaliers.
Just out of curiosity, I looked up a few of the guys being mentioned a bunch today in various talks (none of whom were #1 picks, I know):

Porzingis -- 17.7, just below Iverson/LeBron/Oden
Jaylen Brown -- 10.3, below every #1 pick on that list
Devin Booker -- 11.9, between Olawakandi and Bargnani

Does a good job of indicating how rare guys like Porzingis are.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Who would Minnesota want? IT4? Possibly Marcus Smart but is he really worth a 7th? They have been rumored to want a PG for awhile but I don't see how Smart is much different than Rubio.
 

nighthob

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Bennett was not an asset used to acquire Love, he was salary filler. He is quite probably the worst #1 pick ever made.
How LaRue Martin has been forgotten, and justifiably so...

This gets stated over and over again, but it's wrong. While his value had fallen dramatically in his first year there was still an expectation that he'd round into a useful rotation player.

Look at the espn link after the trade: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/11397368/kevin-love-traded-minnesota-timberwolves-cleveland-cavaliers

"Adding Wiggins, Bennett and Young along with first-round draft pick Zach LaVine transforms the Wolves into a far more dynamic team around pass-happy point guard Ricky Rubio.

'With the additions of Wiggins, Bennett and Zach LaVine this summer, we have brought in three exciting young athletes who all have the potential to have an impact in this league," Saunders said. "All three of them complement each other very well and we believe they will be foundations of our team for years to come.'"
Yeah, clearly great things were expected of Bennett... :rolleyes:
 

HomeRunBaker

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No. And they want to acquire 7 so they can package it with 3 to trade for Porzingis.
Exactly.....the Minny talks for 7 are to have a contingency plan in place if we move 3 for Kristaps or George. It would depend on who the guy is at 7.....if Smith is there moving Avery makes sense to push each guard up the depth chart a notch while securing rookie-contract years and not losing Avery to FA next season. If it my binky Markkanen then it is Olynyk out the door for the same reasons.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Minnesota grabbing Paul George tonight would be awesome, one of the best possible outcomes of the night—takes the one guy LA is most likely to trade for off the market and ensures they finish above them in the standings.

Butler accomplishes half of that, though in both cases Chicago or Indiana become threats to bottom out.
 

jmm57

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Coverage starts at 7. Anyone know when to expect first pick? I'm flying solo with the kid tonight, gotta make sure bed time is completed
 

The Big Red Kahuna

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Coverage starts at 7. Anyone know when to expect first pick? I'm flying solo with the kid tonight, gotta make sure bed time is completed
I was looking for same info as I don't recall exact time in the past. Couldn't find it anywhere, but looks like based on times of tweets from last year's draft, the picks actually start around 7:30pm.