2017 Patriots Defense

tims4wins

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Yeah, but a) without Antonio Brown and b) in only 9 drives. The Steelers average 11 drives a game; giving up their season average on 22% fewer drives without their best skill player is lousy, even before you get to how close they came to scoring 31.
One of the drives was like 22 yards after the Brady pick though. It cuts both ways.
 

lexrageorge

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Jul 31, 2007
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2nd half Pittsburgh drives were:

Punt (after 33 yards gained)
TD on very short field (22 yards)
Punt (31 yards)
Punt (3-and-out)
INT (covered already).

Other than the one broken play on the Steelers final drive, the D was much better in the 2nd half than in the first.
 

Super Nomario

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2nd half Pittsburgh drives were:

Punt (after 33 yards gained)
TD on very short field (22 yards)
Punt (31 yards)
Punt (3-and-out)
INT (covered already).

Other than the one broken play on the Steelers final drive, the D was much better in the 2nd half than in the first.
Well the defense was almost unfathomably horrible in the first half, so that isn't saying much. It was better. It was still not good. At least with ASJ a Patriot bumped him to cause the ball to come free; Jesse James was an unforced error.

Also, worth noting that that 31-yard drive consumed 7 1/2 minutes at a time when the clock was a factor (Pitt was up 8 at the time, started at their own 3, flipped field position and ate up half of the fourth quarter).

One of the drives was like 22 yards after the Brady pick though. It cuts both ways.
The INT was 100% on Brady, not the D, but part of the reason Pittsburgh only had to drive 22 yards was because they had driven into Pats territory on their drive and the O started the INT drive on their own 11. The D put the O in poor field position all night (and the O, apart from the INT, put the D in good field position).
 

Harry Hooper

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Yup, agreed. It wasn't a very good day but it wasn't a total disaster either.

If anybody can find some statistics on pressures, I'd be interested to see those. We did't have any lightning quick wipeout sacks but I thought we did a decent job getting some pressure on Ben and moving him off his spot before he could really go through his progression, despite rarely blitzing. He made some good throws on the run or backpeddling and you just have to tip your cap to those.
I think there were also a couple of plays where Big Ben stayed on his feet and a normal-sized QB would have been sacked.
 

RedOctober3829

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You can't seriously be arguing that Brown going out made things more challenging for the Pats D, can you?
When a player of Brown's caliber goes out of the game, it should help the defense in coverage. All I'm saying is what McCourty said in the interview on TV. He said the injury forced big changes in defensive play calls and they had to do things they did not practice all week. The Steelers went to a run based attack after Brown's injury and passed the ball only 11 times in the 2nd half as opposed to 19 times in the first half.
 

soxhop411

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So Harrison is getting picked up by the pats yes? We all know it’s going to happen.
 

eustis22

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ok, gilmore..I know you're not used to a meaningful game in December but its time to get out of Buffalo Bill Mode and into Patriot Playoff Mode. you cannot be lethargic any more.
 

Ed Hillel

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ok, gilmore..I know you're not used to a meaningful game in December but its time to get out of Buffalo Bill Mode and into Patriot Playoff Mode. you cannot be lethargic any more.
He gave up 70 yards mostly on an island to an excellent WR. A couple of the catches were pretty great, and I thought the only poor coverage was the 3rd and 10 on the last drive of the first half where he gave Benjamin a few too much yards cushion. The idea he "gave up" on that one play is undermined by video, which shows he was off-balance and lost his bearings a bit after Benjamin used his height to make a great play. When did 70 yards on an island against a legit 1WR become something worth pointing out as awful? As opposed to, say, Malcolm Butler being burned repeatedly by a nobody.

And for all the hand-wringing, the D gave up 9 points at the end of the day.

God, I hope this happens, even if he sucks. Pitt fans would melt down.
 

InstaFace

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True, but SSS.

I just did a bootstrap resampling of their defensive drives in tonight's game, and the 1-sigma confidence intervals for their points allowed per drive tonight is 1.56 - 3.78 (so 14.0 - 34.0 points, total). The current league average is 1.87 points per drive. Tonight the NEP gave up 2.67 pts/drive.

24 points on 9 drives isn't good, but the sample is so small that it's in the "one play goes different and it's so much worse/better" category.

edit: bootstrapping might not be the best method for putting appropriate numbers on the confidence intervals in this circumstance, as it doesn't account for things like opponent, starting field positions, etc., but those things only increase the uncertainty so I think the numbers above are a lower--limit on the "one-sigma" uncertainty.
Two weeks late, but can I just say this post is everything I love about this forum.
 

BigSoxFan

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Good Intel at least? Prolly going to have to play them again.
Pretty sure the Steelers are the last team we need intel about. I think there has to be legitimate interest given how weak we are at rushing the passer.
 

Ed Hillel

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Does he have anything left? Would playing him more on the end instead of at LB make him more effective at this stage?
If he's signing, which Howe indicates is a strong possibility, I would think it has to be in the Chris Long role from last year. They need another body who can generate edge pressure for probably 15-20 snaps a game.
Pretty sure the Steelers are the last team we need intel about. I think there has to be legitimate interest given how weak we are at rushing the passer.
I'm guessing advanced stats tell a different story, but the crazy bit is they are currently 12th in the league in raw sack numbers and only a few behind being top 5.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/defense/sort/sacks
 

InstaFace

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Giggity

They could use the infusion of leadership, if nothing else.
Leadership?! All the guy's known for is sounding like a dinosaur with respect to traumatic brain injury, and a nice INT in the super bowl a decade ago. You put a mic in front of him and you get some whining about their previous or upcoming opponent. Where is this alleged leadership coming from?

If Belichick thinks he can still contribute, then In BB We Trust, and god knows we need the help on the D-line. But he would instantly jump into range of Adalius Thomas on my list of "least favorite Patriots".
 

Ralphwiggum

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The guy couldn’t even make the active roster for Pittsburgh, and it isn’t like they have a great defense. It says a lot about the Pats D that they are picking this guy up, and none of it is good. Sadly, though, if he can give them 10-15 snaps a game as a pass rush specialist it probably makes sense.
 
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Vinho Tinto

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Would playing him more on the end instead of at LB make him more effective at this stage?
He didn’t take well to it when the Bengals experimented with him as a DE a few years ago. That’s why comparing him to Long isn’t a good comp as Long has always been a true lineman. He also is no longer an option to play special teams.
 

Marciano490

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Leadership?! All the guy's known for is sounding like a dinosaur with respect to traumatic brain injury, and a nice INT in the super bowl a decade ago. You put a mic in front of him and you get some whining about their previous or upcoming opponent. Where is this alleged leadership coming from?

If Belichick thinks he can still contribute, then In BB We Trust, and god knows we need the help on the D-line. But he would instantly jump into range of Adalius Thomas on my list of "least favorite Patriots".
My steroid references aside, he's one of the hardest working and most dedicated guys in the league. His workouts are insane and he essentially gears his entire existence around football. I think you're also underselling his career a bit. He had one of the best plays in SB history, and that's just a highlight of what was a pretty damn good career.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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So is Van Noy this year's candidate for the seemingly benign or unknown injury that turns out to be a season ending when they quietly announce that he's done? Picking up Harrison has to be bad news on the KVN front, which in turn is very bad news for this defense heading into the playoffs.
 

The Mort Report

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I said this before but he only needs to make one or two impact plays to make him worth a roster spot. While he might not have the upside of some of the players at the bottom of the roster, most of those guys will be gone next year anyways due to draft picks and free agents. If BB thinks he can put him in a position to make a play a game he is absolutely worth a flier
 

Jnai

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I posted this in the game thread and I am clearly not an NFL coach, but Gilmore still seems lost on some defensive snaps, like he isn't sure who he has or what help is behind him. He's frequently turning around, even just as the ball is snapped, to communicate.

Anyone who does watch football and understand the defense have the same or different impressions? I'm thinking of one play in particular from the game this week, which I think was towards the end of the half (but might be wrong there).
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Leadership?! All the guy's known for is sounding like a dinosaur with respect to traumatic brain injury, and a nice INT in the super bowl a decade ago. You put a mic in front of him and you get some whining about their previous or upcoming opponent. Where is this alleged leadership coming from?

If Belichick thinks he can still contribute, then In BB We Trust, and god knows we need the help on the D-line. But he would instantly jump into range of Adalius Thomas on my list of "least favorite Patriots".
I don’t know about leadership qualities or if he has anything left in the tank. But you are way underestimating Harrison’s career and league rep.

He had a bizarre career trajectory so his peak was short but I can count on one hand the OLBs that I’ve ever seen who were better at their peak than peak James Harrison.
 

DJnVa

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If he's signing, which Howe indicates is a strong possibility, I would think it has to be in the Chris Long role from last year. They need another body who can generate edge pressure for probably 15-20 snaps a game.

I'm guessing advanced stats tell a different story, but the crazy bit is they are currently 12th in the league in raw sack numbers and only a few behind being top 5.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/defense/sort/sacks
They get a number of sacks simply because teams pass so much against them--554 pass attempts. Only Tennesee and Philly (at 571) have more.

Pats are now 11th in league in points allowed/drive at 1.70 (they score 2.65). Jax is at 1.26. The Patriots score .5 more points/drive than the worse defense in the NFL allows (TB at 2.11). The score more on more than half of their drives. The worst defense in the league (Oakland) allows points on 40% of their drives.

The QBs playing against NE this season have put up an aggregate line of:

348/554 4087 yards, 24/12 TD/INT, 38 sacks, 90.5 rating

For comparison:
Bortles: 21/11 88.2 rating
Ryan: 19/12 91.4 rating
 

DJnVa

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The best part of the Harrison stuff is it started about an hour/90 minutes before that Field Yates tweet, with a number of "Harrison has been seen at Logan" tweets that no one was buying.
 

InstaFace

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I don’t know about leadership qualities or if he has anything left in the tank. But you are way underestimating Harrison’s career and league rep.

He had a bizarre career trajectory so his peak was short but I can count on one hand the OLBs that I’ve ever seen who were better at their peak than peak James Harrison.
He's a hall of famer, and from 2007-2011ish he was probably the best LB in the league. He could cover like a CB and rush like a DE. You won't see me discounting his talent, just its recency - and his attitude.

He's now 39 years old, and is the oldest defensive player still in the NFL. If it weren't for fellow workout fanatic Tom Brady, he'd be the oldest non-special-teamer. Like I said, if he's got enough left that Belichick thinks he can still make an impact in some situations, god bless, run him out there, he's only going to cost the pro-rated vet minimum probably. But I'd put that value at a discount given his general inclinations to run his mouth and gripe off the field.
 

DJnVa

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He's there for a few plays a week and to be insanely motivated in a possible AFCCG.
 

rslm

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So is Van Noy this year's candidate for the seemingly benign or unknown injury that turns out to be a season ending when they quietly announce that he's done? Picking up Harrison has to be bad news on the KVN front, which in turn is very bad news for this defense heading into the playoffs.
I think Van Noy will be back, but feel like Hogan might be the more likely candidate.
Will take a stab and guess Trevor Reilly is the guy to go.
 

Super Nomario

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I think Van Noy will be back, but feel like Hogan might be the more likely candidate.
Will take a stab and guess Trevor Reilly is the guy to go.
My guess is Geneo Grissom, who is approaching Ventrone territory at this point. I mean, not really, that would be crazy, but he's been off and on like five times over the past couple seasons.
 
Apr 7, 2006
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Beggars can't be choosers.

Maybe he's motivated, has an extra bit of juice and one last run in him. I wouldn't be shocked. I don't imagine he comes in expecting to play a ton, he's not completely demented and BB has always been pretty damn good at setting expectations and playing it straight, especially with vets. So he comes in, provides some excitement and a body with experience at a spot where we have very limited available talent.

This is not an impact signing but it seems like a really good fit and kind of a no brainer. Sign me up!