2018-19 Offseason News, Rumors, Trades

[jon abbey]

Some of it is how legit McNeil is, he was awesome down the stretch last year but it is a bit like the 2B version of Luke Voit, he is 26 with no track record before that.

Also I love that DiPoto has found a GM who he can actually get the better of, and now that it will be hard for the Mets to back out of this as it's gotten this far, I bet he ends up with all three of those prospects.

 

[moondog80]

I have a feeling this deal will be easier to understand if you think of it as two different trades: Diaz for two+ prospects (which is the going rate, see Kimbrel, Miller, Chapman), and a subsidized Cano for nothing. Just a matter of whether the subsidy is taking on Bruce & Swarzak, or more than that.

And if they do this and then turn around and trade Thor? No, that doesn't make sense.

 

[jon abbey]

I have a feeling this deal will be easier to understand if you think of it as two different trades: Diaz for two+ prospects (which is the going rate, see Kimbrel, Miller, Chapman), and a subsidized Cano for nothing. Just a matter of whether the subsidy is taking on Bruce & Swarzak, or more than that.

Yes, this totally makes sense. I am guessing there will be no cash exchanged in the end, just Bruce/Swarzak and then they are tweaking the final prospect group, but DiPoto I think should hold out for all three of the rumored guys and let Brodie deal with the NY press if it drags on.

And if they do this and then turn around and trade Thor? No, that doesn't make sense.

Good call here too, I think. I couldn't find it again, but one of the NY beat writers said a few hours ago (with seeming knowledge) that if/when this happened, Syndergaard would then be kept.

Much like the Pierce/Garnett to the Nets move, I think this will make the Mets at least seem like potential contenders on paper briefly, before it all inevitably implodes and Brodie escapes back to agent life. They haven't been bad at assembling/developing minor league assets, I kind of like it as a go for it move, but also Cano was my favorite player for years and Diaz might be my current single favorite non-Yankee, but I think they are both very good fits for the Mets short-term. The NL East is looking like a lot of fun this year for the top four teams, it would be all five if MIA hadn't sold off their awesome OF.

 

[ThePrideofShiner]

Per Sherman, McNeil is not included.


#Mets and #Mariners are now near certain to complete the Diaz/Cano trade tomorrow. Minor hurdles now. Still medicals and Cano officially waiving his no trade. NYM will send Bruce, Swarzak, Dunn, Kelenic and a reliever they do not see being on 25-man next yr to Seattle.

He also says the reliever is Gerson Bautista

 

[jon abbey]

I’m impressed the Mets are getting money too and managed to keep McNeil out, I know I’m in the minority but I like this for them.

 

[jon abbey]

Jeff Passan likes it for the Mets too, nice piece:

https://sports.yahoo.com/mets-proposed-trade-cano-diaz-makes-sense-doesnt-deserve-scorn-075442872.html

 

[Gdiguy]

Jeff Passan likes it for the Mets too, nice piece:

https://sports.yahoo.com/mets-proposed-trade-cano-diaz-makes-sense-doesnt-deserve-scorn-075442872.html

If the Mets are trying to at least potentially contend, I actually don't mind it.

They really have two paths - either blow it up and take a couple years to rebuild (which means probably trading both DeGrom and Syndergaard if they really wanted to do it well), or try to retool and contend next year. We can definitely argue about the relative merits, but if you assume they chose the latter - this deal isn't terrible. They give up a couple early prospects in exchange for a significant improvement in their weakest area (I've thought for the past couple years their biggest issue was that their bullpen, which by midway through the year cascaded into the starters trying to push too hard to cover and flaming out).

Taking someone like Cano is exactly what a big-market team should be doing, he's at least likely to produce for the next couple years (when their realistic window is in terms of top of the rotation pitching). I don't think they're better than the Braves, but a wild-card team with DeGrom and Syndergaard is a very very dangerous playoff team.

 

[RedOctober3829]

How do we know Cano is subsidized if the Ms are taking on Bruce and Swarzak?

 

[RedOctober3829]

How do we know Cano is subsidized if the Ms are taking on Bruce and Swarzak?

 

[moondog80]

How do we know Cano is subsidized if the Ms are taking on Bruce and Swarzak?

We don’t. That’s what makes this deal impossible to evaluate.

 

[Plympton91]

I'm not pretending he's Pablo Sandoval.

He might be Pablo Sandoval circa 2014. He’s not out of shape, but he declined in 2017 and then bounced back around a PED suspension in 2018. Was it just normal variation, or did the drugs help him avoid further decline for 1 year. If he picks up the aging curve from the 2017 baseline rather than 2018, you want nothing to do with him.

 

[DanoooME]

Bruce and Swarzak aren't even that much in dead money. Bruce is due $29M over '19 and '20 and Swarzak is on an expiring $8M deal. Really, their money situation isn't THAT bad (no guaranteed money to anyone past 2020), so it does make some sense they can take on Cano, but you would think because of that, it reduces the prospect cost for acquiring Diaz. 3 top prospects for a closer (even if 1 is blocked) is one too many (look at what Dave dealt for Kimbrel). Granted, Diaz is arguably more valuable with his salary situation than Kimbrel, but he's also not as established, so there's a little risk there to offset.

If Swarzak rebounds to his 2017 level, that's another great trade piece for Seattle midseason. Bruce can take over the DH slot for two years and drag their offense down, but those two years aren't going to matter anyway if they are rebuilding.

 

[Gdiguy]

With my 2 year olds, I was kind of checked out of this season... but looking at it, the Mets were actually tied with ATL for the best NL East record post all-star break (38-30) (I hadn't realized that). So I can see where (particularly a new) GM could make a convincing case for trading a little future value for current value.

In a way, I think DeGrom winning the Cy made it harder to blow it up in the short term

 

[Murderer's Crow]

With my 2 year olds, I was kind of checked out of this season... but looking at it, the Mets were actually tied with ATL for the best NL East record post all-star break (38-30) (I hadn't realized that). So I can see where (particularly a new) GM could make a convincing case for trading a little future value for current value.

In a way, I think DeGrom winning the Cy made it harder to blow it up in the short term

Misleading. The Mets started something like 11-1 and then played horribly the rest of the year.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Misleading. The Mets started something like 11-1 and then played horribly the rest of the year.

That would be pre-All Star Break, no?

 

[Murderer's Crow]

That would be pre-All Star Break, no?

Totally misread that post. I take it back. Wasn't aware that they went 38-30.

 

[jon abbey]

DiPoto made another trade while we're waiting for this one to finalize, Alex Colome to the White Sox for young C Omar Narvaez.

 

[RIrooter09]

DiPoto made another trade while we're waiting for this one to finalize, Alex Colome to the White Sox for young C Omar Narvaez.

Seems like a solid trade for Seattle. Narvaez showed a lot of promise last year.

 

[DeadlySplitter]

Kelenic seems to be their equivalent of Benintendi (in value, not necessarily the same player). 1st round, top 10 OF draft pick that has impressed early in the minors.

so if Kelenic pans out, Mets will regret this easily. I get that is an appropriate main piece for an Edwin Diaz with 4 years of control left, but they are as thin as any team in the outfield.

 

[DeadlySplitter]

first surprise non-tender: Billy Hamilton, Reds

EDIT: Matt Davidson, White Sox super 2 candidate, also will be a non-tender. Mets leaning towards finally cutting bait with Wilmer Flores as well.

 

[DeadlySplitter]

Cleveland sends C Yan Gomes to the Nats for a AA prospect. Kinda feels like a cost-cutting move (Gomes was due 7M in 2019, 1M buyout in 2020).

Schoop has officially been non-tendered, along with two lefty relievers for MIL: Jennings and Cedeno.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Cleveland sends C Yan Gomes to the Nats for a AA prospect. Kinda feels like a cost-cutting move (Gomes was due 7M in 2019, 1M buyout in 2020).

Schoop has officially been non-tendered, along with two lefty relievers for MIL: Jennings and Cedeno.

Thanks for updating this thread, but please add the source where you get the updates.

e.g. "I just looked at MLBTR and they had this ..."

 

[DeadlySplitter]

usually do, sorry.

Heyman had Michael A. Taylor as the return by mistake at first lol


here are the Dbacks non-tenders.

Arizona Diamondbacks‏Verified account @Dbacks 4m4 minutes ago
#Dbacks tender contracts to 35 players for the 2019 season. The team did not tender contracts to RHP Brad Boxberger, RHP Shelby Miller and INF/OF Chris Owings.

 

[jon abbey]

Have to post this, this is from 2013 and looks like it is dead on:

Mike Kerwick‏ @mikekerwick
"The Mariners will be paying $60 million of the remaining $120 million on Cano's deal in this trade with the..." -- 2018 AP story

 

[Wingack]

usually do, sorry.

Heyman had Michael A. Taylor as the return by mistake at first lol


here are the Dbacks non-tenders.

Arizona Diamondbacks‏Verified account @Dbacks 4m4 minutes ago
#Dbacks tender contracts to 35 players for the 2019 season. The team did not tender contracts to RHP Brad Boxberger, RHP Shelby Miller and INF/OF Chris Owings.

And we all think back to the day Shelby Miller was traded...

 

[Don Bradman]

Misleading. The Mets started something like 11-1 and then played horribly the rest of the year.

Not really. After a really bad June, they were exactly .500 in July/August, but then 18-10 in September. Very strong finish.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYM/2018-schedule-scores.shtml

 

[DeadlySplitter]

couple righthanders from AL West surprisingly non-tendered: Matt Shoemaker, Mike Fiers.


O's have let Tim Beckham go after 1.5 seasons of mostly failure in a trade with the Rays. Caleb Joseph, (backup?) C, is also gone.

 

[jon abbey]

O's have let Tim Beckham go after 1.5 seasons of mostly failure in a trade with the Rays. ]

Sorry to nitpick, but Beckham was awesome in 2017 after coming over, he had a 2 bWAR in 1/3 of a season and a .871 OPS. He was indeed terrible this year, though.

 

[DeadlySplitter]

hence my "mostly failure" line.

he got really hot after the trade in 2017 but there's two teams I hate to trade with: the Cards and Rays. they know their shit.

 

[Murderer's Crow]

hence my "mostly failure" line.

he got really hot after the trade in 2017 but there's two teams I hate to trade with: the Cards and Rays. they know their shit.

How'd that Eovaldi trade turn out?

 

[jon abbey]

Hard to complain about the Shreve/Gallegos for Luke Voit and international spending room one too.

 

[Sad Sam Jones]

I'm really disappointed in the cheapness of the Indians this winter. Five months ago their catching depth was maybe the best in the game with Yan Gomes and Roberto Perez in the majors, top prospect Francisco Mejia ready offensively, and Eric Haase looking like a future capable back-up. Now they have the no-hit defensive specialist Perez to start, and Haase the only viable back-up. They'll be very fortunate to get a .200 batting average out of the position in 2019. For Gomes, they get a pitcher who projects as a rubber-arm on the MLB-AAA shuttle and a toolsy outfielder who might be useful in two years if he learns some plate discipline.

*

 

[Sausage in Section 17]

How'd that Eovaldi trade turn out?

It turned out well so far for TB too, as Jalen Beeks pitched well in the majors, beating the Sox once. And they have him for several more years, too.

 

[j-man]

the Indians might not win the al clen if the white sox can get harper or manny m watch out

 

[j-man]

going into the winter meetings

here is how i see the AL

East
1 NYY won 100 last year with 1 number 2 and 3 number 3's as long as they get corbin or dallas k they will barely win the east by a game over bos
2 bos best off in the MLB but who will close can david p sale win 38 games between them
3 TB should win 86-89 games likely in play in game
4 tor they are 500 at best
5 Bal they will be better but i still see at least 102 L

Cent
1 CLE for now white sox or twins have a shot
2 CWS couild win 85 games with some breaks
3 minn a 500 Team like tor but if Cle has some bad breaks who knows
4 KC there are 2 years away
5 Det they are 3-4 years away

West
1 Hou thanks to Oak low $ flow and sea re-imaging Hou wins AL West by 12+
2 Oak no ace this is a 84-87 win team that if TB Fails will get a shot at NYY/BOS in play in
3 Sea dipoto must play MLB the show all day that dude wouild trade his mom
4 LAA or mike trout and the 1-man band their new manager does not know how to manage a pen
5 Tex they will hit but they cannot pitch

 

[jon abbey]

I'm really disappointed in the cheapness of the Indians this winter. Five months ago their catching depth was maybe the best in the game with Yan Gomes and Roberto Perez in the majors, top prospect Francisco Mejia ready offensively, and Eric Haase looking like a future capable back-up. Now they have the no-hit defensive specialist Perez to start, and Haase the only viable back-up. They'll be very fortunate to get a .200 batting average out of the position in 2019. For Gomes, they get a pitcher who projects as a rubber-arm on the MLB-AAA shuttle and a toolsy outfielder who might be useful in two years if he learns some plate discipline.

*

It occurs to me it would make a lot more sense if it was a precursor to a deal with the Dodgers, one of the three CLE SPs for a package including Verdugo and one of their stud prospect catchers. What do you think?

 

[chawson]

Strickland was having an excellent season (3.26 FIP) until he picked a dumb ego battle with Lewis Brinson and lost, which got him so angry he punched a door with his throwing hand (and maybe ruined his career). He returned with 1.5-2 mph less velocity and was terrible the rest of the way (6.65 FIP).

If the velocity’s back, he’s the non-tender I’m most interested in by numbers alone, but he seems dumb as a folder of baked beans.

 

[RedOctober3829]

The Cano-Diaz deal to NYM is done. Mariners are sending $20 million to the Mets.

 

[Wingack]

The Cano-Diaz deal to NYM is done. Mariners are sending $20 million to the Mets.

That’s an odd move, but let’s see what else this new Mets GM has up his sleeve.

 

[E5 Yaz]

That’s an odd move, but let’s see what else this new Mets GM has up his sleeve.

Does he have any other former clients to trade for?

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

That’s an odd move, but let’s see what else this new Mets GM has up his sleeve.

I'm of the belief that you don't spend real resources on a closer unless you're a serious championship contender. I think this is a stupid move by the Mets.

 

[jon abbey]

I'm of the belief that you don't spend real resources on a closer unless you're a serious championship contender. I think this is a stupid move by the Mets.

I think it depends somewhat on what they do for the rest of the winter. I should probably start a new thread because I think it's a fascinating topic, but Cano is immediately their #3 hitter and Diaz is better than any closer on the FA market except maybe Kimbrel who wants six years, so that's two big holes filled without adding 2019 salary (because of Bruce/Swarzak going the other direction). The Mets kind of need to go for it now, deGrom and Syndergaard and Wheeler are signed for 2/3/1 more years respectively, and ATL is only going to get better as guys like Acuna and Albies mature and their boatload of pitching prospects develop. Conventional wisdom might say to trade all of those guys and build long-term, but I don't know if the Mets fan base would really put up with that.

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

I think it depends somewhat on what they do for the rest of the winter. I should probably start a new thread because I think it's a fascinating topic, but Cano is immediately their #3 hitter and Diaz is better than any closer on the FA market except maybe Kimbrel who wants six years, so that's two big holes filled without adding 2019 salary (because of Bruce/Swarzak going the other direction). The Mets kind of need to go for it now, deGrom and Syndergaard and Wheeler are signed for 2/3/1 more years respectively, and ATL is only going to get better as guys like Acuna and Albies mature and their boatload of pitching prospects develop. Conventional wisdom might say to trade all of those guys and build long-term, but I don't know if the Mets fan base would really put up with that.

Why not sign two of those guys long term. The Mets don't have a ton of long term commitments.

 

[Wingack]

I think it depends somewhat on what they do for the rest of the winter. I should probably start a new thread because I think it's a fascinating topic, but Cano is immediately their #3 hitter and Diaz is better than any closer on the FA market except maybe Kimbrel who wants six years, so that's two big holes filled without adding 2019 salary (because of Bruce/Swarzak going the other direction). The Mets kind of need to go for it now, deGrom and Syndergaard and Wheeler are signed for 2/3/1 more years respectively, and ATL is only going to get better as guys like Acuna and Albies mature and their boatload of pitching prospects develop. Conventional wisdom might say to trade all of those guys and build long-term, but I don't know if the Mets fan base would really put up with that.

Yeah, a couple more moves and the Mets may have as good a shot as any team in the NL, especially with DeGrom and Syndergaard in the playoffs.

 

[jon abbey]

Why not sign two of those guys long term. The Mets don't have a ton of long term commitments.

The SPs, you mean? They can still do that if the players are willing, but even with the super-odd Brodie/deGrom relationship (my agent! my GM!), I can't imagine a Cy Young award winner would be quick to sign long-term with a team that only managed to get him 10 wins to accompany his 1.70 ERA if they don't show signs of being aggressive in terms of winning, especially with where ATL and WAS are and with PHI talking about spending 'stupid' money this winter (I will be pretty surprised if Harper doesn't end up in PHI).

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

The SPs, you mean? They can still do that if the players are willing, but even with the super-odd Brodie/deGrom relationship (my agent! my GM!), I can't imagine a Cy Young award winner would be quick to sign long-term with a team that only managed to get him 10 wins to accompany his 1.70 ERA if they don't show signs of being aggressive in terms of winning, especially with where ATL and WAS are and with PHI talking about spending 'stupid' money this winter (I will be pretty surprised if Harper doesn't end up in PHI).

I guess I think it's all related. Trying to lock down their rotation would be a serious sign of being aggressive in terms of winning.

 

[ThePrideofShiner]

Well, apparently they are talking to the Indians about Kluber.


Feinsand:
Sources say the Mets have spoken with the Indians about Corey Kluber. The two teams had talked about Yan Gomes before he was dealt to the Nationals, but the Mets' interest now appears to also extend to Kluber, who had Mets manager Mickey Callaway as a pitching coach in Cleveland.

 

[Murderer's Crow]

The only thing worse than the Red Sox winning the WS is the Mets winning. Here’s to hoping the curse of everlasting stupidity and injuries continues.

 

[ThePrideofShiner]

Replace Mets with Mariners and I'm with you. Guessing Mets hate is an Easy Coast thing.

 

[jtn46]

I thought there was some good logic to it for the Mets when it was rumored the Mariners were paying half of Cano’s deal. After all spinning Diaz at the deadline for more than they gave up should be simple if he’s healthy. I don’t get it with only $20 million, as this likely hamstrings the Mets with actual good free agents worth paying and hurts their ability to extend Degrom (or Syndergaard).

Maybe the Wilpons want to spend big this offseason and this is effectively a Punto trade ahead of a huge Harper offer. I doubt it.