2019-20 Offseason Discussion

Green Monster

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Dodgers designate Tyler White (OF) and Kyle Garlick (OF) for assignment. .....Garlick has 2 options remaining and put up some solid numbers last year in AAA (.314/.382/.675 w/ 23HRs). Sounds like someone the Sox should be looking at.

 

Green Monster

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Not sure if this is the correct spot for this question, but I have a question regarding the 10/5 rights. Does the 5yrs need to be consecutive? In other words if Price were to end up back with the Red Sox (not happening, just using as an example), would the clock continue to tick from the point he left them or would he require a new 5yrs?

edit: oops, meant this for the thread that was actually discussing 10/5 rights. answered before i could correct it.
 

Bowlerman9

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Not sure if this is the correct spot for this question, but I have a question regarding the 10/5 rights. Does the 5yrs need to be consecutive? In other words if Price were to end up back with the Red Sox (not happening, just using as an example), would the clock continue to tick from the point he left them or would he require a new 5yrs?
Needs to be consecutive.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
Cesar Puello gets a minors deal and a NRI spot:

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/alexspeier/status/1227223575888846849


He had a very brief and fantastical spike with LAA last year before being moved to Miami and producing 30ish games of suck, but he's been solid in the minors.
Looks like a good defender who has shown at least flashes of fringe-average offensive potential. With at least two bench slots up for grabs, and mostly infielders on the 40-man aside from Marcus Wilson, who might not be ready, there's definitely an opening for somebody like Puello to grab a spot.
 

chawson

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As a player, Pillar reminds me of Jay Payton. Faded starting outfielder with possible attitudinal issues deployed as a part-time lefty masher. Of course, Jay Payton never used a homophobic slur on the field — though to be fair he did make considerable efforts to apologize.

Numbers against LHP are decent, but his walk rate and OBP are microscopic. Has the reputation of an excellent defensive player but he’s been roughly average the last three years. He’s probably undervalued, but he also, see above, seems like a hard guy to root for.
 

nattysez

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The Giants' fans loved Pillar, he made many great catches in CF, and the Giants happily let him walk and made de minimis, if any, attempts to re-sign him.

One of the Giants' writers said on the radio that there was no way Pillar was going to put up with being platooned or riding the bench to let young guys play, so he wasn't a fit.

Zaidi faced a lot of heat when he let Pillar go.

At times, the night turned into one of those old school vs. new school debates. On the traditionalist side, more than one fan noted that Pillar was the Willie Mac Award winner as the Giants’ most inspirational leader. Pillar also made highlight-caliber catches and fared well in the familiar measures, batting .264 with 21 home runs, 76 RBIs and 14 stolen bases. Henry Schulman, who covers the Giants for the San Francisco Chronicle, went so far as to give Pillar a 10th-place vote on his National League MVP ballot.

Zaidi, who was inspired to find a job in baseball after reading “Moneyball” and broke in as a data analyst for the A’s under Billy Beane, steered clear from a more detailed counterargument. But it’s worth noting that Pillar had a .287 on-base percentage (ranking him 132nd out of 136 qualifying players) and was a modest 1.4 Wins Above Replacement for the Giants, via Baseball-Reference.com. Pillar’s defensive metrics also indicated that the occasional superb catches were outliers to an otherwise down season in the field.

The only statistic Zaidi pointed to in discussing Pillar was 31 — that’s the outfielder’s age for Opening Day 2020. That number played a big role on cutting ties with a player who would have commanded a salary of about $10 million in his final season of arbitration.
 
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InsideTheParker

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As I posted elsewhere, Pillar isn't much of a hitter. But he can be sparkling in the field. I wonder if he's expected to platoon with all the lh fielders to give them a rest?
Edit: I see above he has an aversion to platooning, so I don't know if I'm happy with this signing, because it does suggest jbj might be on the move.
 

MetSox1

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Really worried about losing jbj now too. It'd make some sense as we were lefty heavy and just resigned tendi, but man I could watch jbj highlights all winter long.
 

cornwalls@6

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Sounds like Pillar objected to platooning with young players in SF. I would hope he’d understand his situation has changed, JBJ is an established veteran, and if they do platoon him, he’d accept the role and not cause any problems. If he’s here for depth, and to spell JBJ against lefties, I like the signing. If he’s a straight up replacement for him, not so much.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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I wonder if the Cardinals would be open to JBJ and a lower prospect or two for Carlos Martinez. The St Louis front office has been fighting with him for over a year now. Salaries pretty much offset. Maybe send JBJ and Barnes? Stranger things have happened.
 

LesterFan

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Pillar is a terrible hitter. Career 86 wRC+ with a 4% walk rate. He's slightly above average for his career against lefties at 103 wRC+. A quick look at his defensive metrics shows he has declined significantly from his 2015/2016 days when he was elite to average last season.

2015-2019 DRS (Defensive runs saved): 22, 21, 15, -2, -3
2015-2019 UZR/150: 9.4, 16.8, 6.3, 2.5, -0.6

Statcast Outs Above Average 2016-2019: 11, 0, 1, 2

Not too excited about this.
 

nattysez

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One clarifying point on Pillar -- if the Giants had kept him, he would've been coming up on his first year as a free agent and I believe that was part of the reason for him not wanting to platoon (and thus losing value on the market). Maybe now that he's seen what's out there for him as a FA, he'll be more open to it.
 

chawson

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I wonder if the Cardinals would be open to JBJ and a lower prospect or two for Carlos Martinez. The St Louis front office has been fighting with him for over a year now. Salaries pretty much offset. Maybe send JBJ and Barnes? Stranger things have happened.
I like a deal for C-Mart, but that’s not a realistic package for him.

That’s why I don’t like Pillar. If we’re really gonna sign him, I’m gonna get my complaints in now. Pillar has absolutely no upside or trade value, and signing him presumes that we’re more in contention in 2020 than we are.

Puig is the play, here, because he’s a) a good player with b) upside AND c) an actual trade chip. Pillar is only maybe one of those.
 

OCD SS

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Except Puig can’t really play CF, and with the present roster the Sox 4th OF needs to be Annie to cover center kind of passably while hitting from the right side.

This is feeling like the glory days where the 4th OFer needed to be a good defensive RHH to platoon with Trot…
 

chawson

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Except Puig can’t really play CF, and with the present roster the Sox 4th OF needs to be Annie to cover center kind of passably while hitting from the right side.

This is feeling like the glory days where the 4th OFer needed to be a good defensive RHH to platoon with Trot…
Agreed that Puig can’t play center, but Verdugo can, and Benintendi kinda can here and there.

More importantly, Puig can mash, and I see him as a big offensive year playing in Fenway.

Consider that Puig and Franmil Reyes was just traded for Trevor Bauer at the deadline last year. That’s roughly similar to a package of Puig and Michael Chavis.
 

sean1562

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Pillar is a terrible hitter. Career 86 wRC+ with a 4% walk rate. He's slightly above average for his career against lefties at 103 wRC+. A quick look at his defensive metrics shows he has declined significantly from his 2015/2016 days when he was elite to average last season.

2015-2019 DRS (Defensive runs saved): 22, 21, 15, -2, -3
2015-2019 UZR/150: 9.4, 16.8, 6.3, 2.5, -0.6

Statcast Outs Above Average 2016-2019: 11, 0, 1, 2

Not too excited about this.
doesnt JBJ basically have the same trajectory? if we can dump JBJ's $11 mil and sign some rotation help, is it worth it?
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Except Puig can’t really play CF, and with the present roster the Sox 4th OF needs to be Annie to cover center kind of passably while hitting from the right side.

This is feeling like the glory days where the 4th OFer needed to be a good defensive RHH to platoon with Trot…
I think the fact Pillar was chosen as a signing over someone like Puig makes me believe that JBJ is getting dealt.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
I'm thinking NYM, PIT, and SF could all be interested
Why on earth would the Mets be interested? They have two CFs; one of them is a better hitter than JBJ, the other is a better fielder, and they're both cheaper.

The problem with the other two teams is that while it's true they don't really have a CF, they don't really have any starting pitching to spare, either.
 
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Green Monster

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Why on earth would the Mets be interested? They have two CFs; one of them is a better hitter than JBJ, the other is a better fielder, and they're both cheaper.
I don't know that they are for sure.....just speculating
 

Melrose Diner

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I think Pillar is a pretty good addition if he’s a guy you’re not going to count on for 400+ PA. Clearly above average defense and while the OBP certainly leaves a lot to be desired he’s a guy that can show up and have a big offensive game from time to time, which is all you can ask from a guy that might be number 11 in a 13 man group. We just don’t need him leading off for 100 games.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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I don't know that they are for sure.....just speculating
I think you can take the measure of that source by him calling Joc Pederson a "genuine major league centerfielder" when he hasn't played even half-time there since 2016 and has had ugly numbers there the past three years. He's a corner OF at this point.

I mean, it's possible the Mets decide they need somebody like JBJ because they can't live with Marisnick's offense and they're not convinced Nimmo can cut it defensively, so they go for a guy who kind of splits the difference between them. But it's been as long since JBJ was an above-average hitter as it's been since Pederson could play center, so I'm not sure you can even call him a two-way player now. He's a defensive specialist whose defense will soon cease to be special (if it hasn't already), and he's paid $11M, which is probably close to double his market value. I think he's going to be tough to trade. It makes much more sense for the Sox to keep him -- both Pillar and JBJ are still league-average hitters against opposite-side pitching, so a straight platoon with Pillar would give the Sox average-at-worst overall production in CF, at a price (assuming Pillar signs for $5M-ish) that's not low but reasonable for that return.
 

Green Monster

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I think you can take the measure of that source by him calling Joc Pederson a "genuine major league centerfielder" when he hasn't played even half-time there since 2016 and has had ugly numbers there the past three years. He's a corner OF at this point.

I mean, it's possible the Mets decide they need somebody like JBJ because they can't live with Marisnick's offense and they're not convinced Nimmo can cut it defensively, so they go for a guy who kind of splits the difference between them. But it's been as long since JBJ was an above-average hitter as it's been since Pederson could play center, so I'm not sure you can even call him a two-way player now. He's a defensive specialist whose defense will soon cease to be special (if it hasn't already), and he's paid $11M, which is probably close to double his market value. I think he's going to be tough to trade. It makes much more sense for the Sox to keep him -- both Pillar and JBJ are still league-average hitters against opposite-side pitching, so a straight platoon with Pillar would give the Sox average-at-worst overall production in CF, at a price (assuming Pillar signs for $5M-ish) that's not low but reasonable for that return.
So you are suggesting that the Sox use nearly 50% of their new found cap space on an OF platoon partner? How would you propose they address the hole in their pitching staff?
 

nattysez

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Wouldn't the Giants be a team with interest in JBJ?
2 issues:
1 - their farm is lousy, so they're not going to send any meaningful prospects our way
2 - They really want to try Dubon in CF at least part-time. Paying 8 figures and a prospect so JBJ can play CF part-time is not the new FO's style.
 

sean1562

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Can we change it to "trust Chaim Bloom because he has demonstrated success on a team that consistently develops good teams and prospects on a budget 1/8 the size of the red sox?"
 

Le Bastonois

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Can we change it to "trust Chaim Bloom because he has demonstrated success on a team that consistently develops good teams and prospects on a budget 1/8 the size of the red sox?"
Here's another trope. . .In Boston, a guy who's name is built into a toast with alcoholic beverages.

L'chaim ! (To life).
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
So you are suggesting that the Sox use nearly 50% of their new found cap space on an OF platoon partner? How would you propose they address the hole in their pitching staff?
No, I would have preferred they spend the money on Taijuan Walker. And it's possible they do trade JBJ, perhaps in subsidized form. But I don't really see the point of the move in that case, because even with a subsidy I don't think JBJ fetches a significantly above-replacement, cost-controlled starting pitcher, and that's what they need. At best he brings more quality bullpen depth, perhaps to go with the 5th-day bullpen day concept.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Watched Pillar for years in Toronto showboating diving catches for all they’re worth. He’s a good outfielder but not in JBJ’s class .. and he’s a pretty bad hitter. Just say no ..
He also (and I cannot believe this hasn't been mentioned yet) got suspended by the Blue Jays for a few games for calling an opposing pitcher a "f*gg*t" after the pitcher quick pitched him and struck him out.

The Sox are just loading up on questionable character guys this offseason, between Pillar and Verdugo. I guess they figure that's the new market inefficiency.

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