2019-20 Offseason Discussion

barbed wire Bob

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He also (and I cannot believe this hasn't been mentioned yet) got suspended by the Blue Jays for a few games for calling an opposing pitcher a "f*gg*t" after the pitcher quick pitched him and struck him out.

The Sox are just loading up on questionable character guys this offseason, between Pillar and Verdugo. I guess they figure that's the new market inefficiency.
It was mentioned when Pillar’s first name came up.
As a player, Pillar reminds me of Jay Payton. Faded starting outfielder with possible attitudinal issues deployed as a part-time lefty masher. Of course, Jay Payton never used a homophobic slur on the field — though to be fair he did make considerable efforts to apologize.

Numbers against LHP are decent, but his walk rate and OBP are microscopic. Has the reputation of an excellent defensive player but he’s been roughly average the last three years. He’s probably undervalued, but he also, see above, seems like a hard guy to root for.
 

moondog80

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I will be interested to read what posters think about the Kevin Pillar rumor. He would seem to be a good fit for next year if healthy.
I mean, who can consider such a thing given the news that they are apparently not going to retire Brock Holt's number?

Pillar is fine, as long as you don't expect him to be Mookie Betts. Having bench/platoon guys the project to a positive WAR over a full season is always good.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
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I will be interested to read what posters think about the Kevin Pillar rumor. He would seem to be a good fit for next year if healthy.
There's 50+ posts about him in this very thread, starting around 5:00 pm last night.
 

bohous

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View: https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/1227599492465201153?s=20


Is this really a big deal or folks just looking for a story? Does Downs have a legit chance of making the big league roster?

Also, he's got Cora's number...and Brock's number is gone. Who gets the #50?

I see it as them showing Downs how highly they think of him, but would seem to send kind of a weird message to the other minor leagueres.
Would be nice if Pillar gets #15 which would help people easily modify and put their old Millar shirts back in rotation.


Add me to the list of those who would be disappointed if adding Pillar means JBJ is getting moved, although I would think that any team interested in JBJ would have just signed Pillar by now instead.
 

bosox0192

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Jul 18, 2005
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I see it as them showing Downs how highly they think of him, but would seem to send kind of a weird message to the other minor leagueres.
Would be nice if Pillar gets #15 which would help people easily modify and put their old Millar shirts back in rotation.

Pedroia's likely played his last game but he's still 15.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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Jul 10, 2007
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The wrong side of the bridge....
He also (and I cannot believe this hasn't been mentioned yet) got suspended by the Blue Jays for a few games for calling an opposing pitcher a "f*gg*t" after the pitcher quick pitched him and struck him out.

The Sox are just loading up on questionable character guys this offseason, between Pillar and Verdugo. I guess they figure that's the new market inefficiency.

[youtube]]View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7SWtrUySYo&feature=emb_logo[/youtube]
To be fair, Pillar seems to have owned his failure and tried to learn better. The contrition here isn't perfect but seems genuine. It would be nice to root only for athletes who wouldn't talk that way in the first place, but this seems like the next best thing:

Jays’ Pillar has worked for atonement after homophobic slur
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Yes, I saw that. But again, the optics are horrible. They traded away a great person in Mookie Betts and have brought in Verdugo and Pillar, two extremely questionable people. I don't expect my baseball players to be perfect human beings but I also don't expect them to be complete assholes either. It's great that Pillar apologized; it's really really bad he did it in the first place.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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View: https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/1227599492465201153?s=20


Is this really a big deal or folks just looking for a story? Does Downs have a legit chance of making the big league roster?

Also, he's got Cora's number...and Brock's number is gone. Who gets the #50?
I think it's folks looking for a story. Though it is suggestive that they think he's going to be in the bigs sooner rather than latter, I don't think it means he's expected to break camp on the big league roster. The guy hasn't been above AA yet and it's not as though they don't have four other guys on the 40-man to play his position (five if we count Pedroia).

As for #50...I expect they'll keep it vacant for the season with the hope that they can drape it over a certain free agent's shoulders in December.
 

DJnVa

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Dec 16, 2010
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PECOTA, post-Mookie, has the Sox at 84.5 wins, right in the WC hunt with TB (87.3), Cleveland (86.1), Chicago (82.5), LAA (86.8), and Oak (84.6).

NYY at 99.0, Houston at 98.3, and Min at 93.4. LAD at 102.5, no one else in NL over 87.8.
 

Harry Hooper

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Pillar makes sense as he can handle CF, but I'm still interested in Garlick who was DFA'd by the Dodgers.

Davis Laurila did a profile on Kyle a few years back.
 

Plympton91

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Oct 19, 2008
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PECOTA, post-Mookie, has the Sox at 84.5 wins, right in the WC hunt with TB (87.3), Cleveland (86.1), Chicago (82.5), LAA (86.8), and Oak (84.6).

NYY at 99.0, Houston at 98.3, and Min at 93.4. LAD at 102.5, no one else in NL over 87.8.
Is there a limit to how much I can bet on the “over” with regards to that Oakland prediction?

I’m shocked the Angels are projected above the Red Sox. That does not bode well.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Ok, can someone explain to me why we are signing a 4th outfielder who had one of the the lowest OBP over the past few season for 9.7 million in arbitration? I dont want to beat a dead horse, but Holt is a better player.
Are you referring to Pillar? Do you have a source for that 9.7 million number? I've seen nothing in terms of what Pillar is likely to cost, but I would guess that it won't be close to 9.7M unless it's a multi-year offer. He's a free agent still on the market as camps are starting to open...he's not going to get the same or more than he got last year ($5.8M).

Holt may be a better hitter and has more positional diversity, but he hits left-handed, same as the rest of the presumptive starting outfield. Pillar hits RHH and plays better defensive outfield than Holt. For that reason, he's a better choice for this roster.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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Jul 10, 2007
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The wrong side of the bridge....
Ok, can someone explain to me why we are signing a 4th outfielder who had one of the the lowest OBP over the past few season for 9.7 million in arbitration? I dont want to beat a dead horse, but Holt is a better player.
They're not going to pay him $9.7M. Since the Giants non-tendered him, he's a free agent. He and the Sox can agree on whatever price they want. I'm guessing it'll be in the range of $4-5M.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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I guess today was the final nail in the coffin regarding BROCKHOLTS tenure in Boston. Ill miss him.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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PECOTA, post-Mookie, has the Sox at 84.5 wins, right in the WC hunt with TB (87.3), Cleveland (86.1), Chicago (82.5), LAA (86.8), and Oak (84.6).

NYY at 99.0, Houston at 98.3, and Min at 93.4. LAD at 102.5, no one else in NL over 87.8.
I'd hammer the over all day long. This team probably wins 86 or 87. People are understating how ridiculously bad the bottom of the AL is. That Tampa over/under would be obscene too. Someone keep an eye out so we can all get rich.
 

jon abbey

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Jul 15, 2005
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They're not going to pay him $9.7M. Since the Giants non-tendered him, he's a free agent. He and the Sox can agree on whatever price they want. I'm guessing it'll be in the range of $4-5M.
Or even less, Jarrod Dyson signed for 1/$2M today.
 

chawson

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Aug 1, 2006
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Me, too. I thought he could play second base until Downs is ready.
There’s a reasonable chance Peraza rebounds to a 2-3 win player — basically Marco Scutaro with more speed and fewer walks. He’s young, cheap and controllable enough to give him a few months to see if he can run away with it.
 

budcrew08

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PECOTA, post-Mookie, has the Sox at 84.5 wins, right in the WC hunt with TB (87.3), Cleveland (86.1), Chicago (82.5), LAA (86.8), and Oak (84.6).

NYY at 99.0, Houston at 98.3, and Min at 93.4. LAD at 102.5, no one else in NL over 87.8.
they did that last year with him, so, maybe PECOTA knows something
 

Green Monster

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A quick comparison of WAR the last 3 seasons;

JBJ
2019: 1.4
2018: 2.8
2017: 2.2

KPillar
2019: 1.8
2018: 2.0
2017: 2.0
 

brandonchristensen

mad photochops
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Feb 4, 2012
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The Sox are unknown. Last year they were favored but underperformed, 2018 they were wild cards going in but just couldn't stop winning.

The lineup is great, the pitching has a couple of guys who if they perform, will keep this team in ballgames. Bullpen is a crapshoot. I would be just as surprised by 80 wins as I would be with 95. I really have no idea what to expect.
 

EricFeczko

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The Sox are unknown. Last year they were favored but underperformed, 2018 they were wild cards going in but just couldn't stop winning.

The lineup is great, the pitching has a couple of guys who if they perform, will keep this team in ballgames. Bullpen is a crapshoot. I would be just as surprised by 80 wins as I would be with 95. I really have no idea what to expect.
Bullpen and lineup are top-10 and competitive. The issue is the starting pitching may be anywhere from top 5 to bottom 5. There's just a lot of variance in predicting how Sale and Eovaldi will perform.
 
Jan 31, 2020
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I'm thinking it takes a year off in the hopes that Mookie returns next season. Whether or not that actually happens is covered in a bunch of other threads.
I'm thinking even if he doesn't return that #50 is never going to be worn again by anyone else. Another 3 or 4 seasons of elite production and he's a HOF candidate. Hopefully back here next season.
 

JimD

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I expect they will keep #50 open this year for a potential Betts return, however remote that possibility is. If he signs elsewhere as a FA, then it will be reused just as Manny's number was, Curt's number was, etc. Mookie is not yet at the Pedro/Papi level where reissuing the number is completely off the table.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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#50 is an unusual number, so it might naturally go unused/unrequested. But it won’t ultimately be because the team thought Mookie might make the HOF in 15+ years. As JimD said, they’ve given out other good player’s numbers, even all-time Sox numbers like Evans’s #24.

Pittsburgh gave out #24 the next season after Bonds left (and he’d won 2 MVPs with them). You move on.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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#50 is an unusual number, so it might naturally go unused/unrequested. But it won’t ultimately be because the team thought Mookie might make the HOF in 15+ years. As JimD said, they’ve given out other good player’s numbers, even all-time Sox numbers like Evans’s #24.

Pittsburgh gave out #24 the next season after Bonds left (and he’d won 2 MVPs with them). You move on.
Even if we go the route of "potential HOF" that might eventually have his number retired by the team, they still tend to re-issue until the player reaches the hall, or after. #26 and 27 were re-issued within a couple years of Boggs and Fisk leaving and were worn by a variety of players right up until they decided to retire them. The guy that's been evoked more often than any other in the whole trading Betts saga, Fred Lynn, had his number re-issued the following season and it continues to be used today (by the current CF).

There are only three numbers unofficially retired by the team right now...21, 33, 49. As great as Betts was for his 5+ years with the team, I'm not sure he rises to the level of those three.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Even if we go the route of "potential HOF" that might eventually have his number retired by the team, they still tend to re-issue until the player reaches the hall, or after. #26 and 27 were re-issued within a couple years of Boggs and Fisk leaving and were worn by a variety of players right up until they decided to retire them. The guy that's been evoked more often than any other in the whole trading Betts saga, Fred Lynn, had his number re-issued the following season and it continues to be used today (by the current CF).

There are only three numbers unofficially retired by the team right now...21, 33, 49. As great as Betts was for his 5+ years with the team, I'm not sure he rises to the level of those three.
Clemens he probably won't. But he has more or less surpassed Wakefield and Tek on the field. Even though he's been here 5 years, the MVP makes his career more comparable to the beginning of Pedroias career in terms of impact.
 

tims4wins

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Retiring 50 is even more dumb than the NBA retiring 8 or 24 for Kobe. This is laughable. Unless he returns next year, zero chance.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Clemens he probably won't. But he has more or less surpassed Wakefield and Tek on the field. Even though he's been here 5 years, the MVP makes his career more comparable to the beginning of Pedroias career in terms of impact.
Wakefield and Tek were with the club for 2-3X longer than Betts, and remain with the team in different capacities. Their numbers haven't been re-issued because they've really never left. Kinda the same way Jim Rice's number was never re-issued because he remained involved with the team even in retirement. It isn't just about career accomplishments, it's about service to the organization. For that reason, I expect #50 will be treated in the same manner as 19, 24, 25, 26, 27, etc have been.
 

YTF

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#50 is an unusual number, so it might naturally go unused/unrequested. But it won’t ultimately be because the team thought Mookie might make the HOF in 15+ years. As JimD said, they’ve given out other good player’s numbers, even all-time Sox numbers like Evans’s #24.

Pittsburgh gave out #24 the next season after Bonds left (and he’d won 2 MVPs with them). You move on.
Not so unusual these days., 28 players wore the number last season. I'm not familiar with all of the players on this list of those who wore #50 last year, but guess most were either pitchers or first year player. B-Ref has a list of numbers worn (by number) for each season. What don't they have?
 

DJnVa

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If Mookie Betts becomes a Hall of Famer then why would the Sox ever reissue #50? No exaggeration there.
Because if he becomes a HOF'er he'll likely have ended up playing elsewhere for longer than he played in Boston, and I don't know if those 6 awesome years will be enough.
 

OCD SS

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Wakefield and Tek were with the club for 2-3X longer than Betts, and remain with the team in different capacities. Their numbers haven't been re-issued because they've really never left. Kinda the same way Jim Rice's number was never re-issued because he remained involved with the team even in retirement. It isn't just about career accomplishments, it's about service to the organization. For that reason, I expect #50 will be treated in the same manner as 19, 24, 25, 26, 27, etc have been.
How quickly we forget # 5.
 

Coachster

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NUMBER 50



Andy Merchant 1975-76
Mike O'Berry 1979
Rich Gedman 1980
Dave Schmidt 1981
Dave Sax 1986
Tom Bolton 1987-92
Ken Ryan 1992-95
Jamie Moyer 1996
Mark Brandenburg 1996-97
Lou Merloni 1998
Chad Fonville 1999
Pete Schourek 2000-01
Ralph Treuel 2001 (COACH)
Benny Agbayani 2002
Mike Timlin 2003-08
Aaron Bates 2009
Dusty Brown 2009
Ron Johnson 2010-11 (COACH)
Justin Thomas 2012
Mauro Gomez 2012
Quintin Berry 2013
Mookie Betts 2014-19