2019-2020 Celtics Regular Season Thread

lovegtm

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The Heat were on a back-to-back after a huge OT win against Toronto, so I downweight this one a lot. Still was nice to see the rookies/young guys getting a lot of minutes and playing well. I was 100% wrong about Semi--he looks better and better with extra playing time.

Grant overhelps on defense way, way too often, which bit him again a few times tonight.

Team is improving a lot at handling Kemba traps. It’s nice that every team is trying it now, since the Celtics will get a ton if in-game reps as the season goes on.
 
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benhogan

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The Heat were on a back-to-back after a huge OT win against Toronto, so I downweight this one a lot. Still was nice to see the rookies/young guys getting a lot of minutes and playing well. I was 100% wrong about Semi--he looks better and better with extra playing time.

Grant overhelps on defense way, way too often, which bit him again a few times tonight.

Team is improving a lot at handling Kemba traps. It’s nice that every team is trying it now, since the Celtics will get a ton if in-game reps as the season goes on.
Grant's still learning, you're right he has a tendency to help too much. Semi/Brad/Enis/TL all have been better than advertised. BUT we probably should give CBS some credit here for finding them the right spots.

Carsen Edwards, for all his defensive limitations, gave us high energy/aggressive on-ball defense at the top which I believe is one of the keys to making CBS defense work. It also works very well on teams coming off back-to-backs. Hope we employ a very aggressive ball-hawking defense against the Nuggets on Friday, need to take advantage of these scheduling quirks.
 

Jimbodandy

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Grant's still learning, you're right he has a tendency to help too much. Semi/Brad/Enis/TL all have been better than advertised. BUT we probably should give CBS some credit here for finding them the right spots.

Carsen Edwards, for all his defensive limitations, gave us high energy/aggressive on-ball defense at the top which I believe is one of the keys to making CBS defense work. It also works very well on teams coming off back-to-backs. Hope we employ a very aggressive ball-hawking defense against the Nuggets on Friday, need to take advantage of these scheduling quirks.
Well said. Carsen was a pain in the ass last night on defense. It helped. Brad hasn't been quiet lately about ball pressure being important.

As far as overhelping, we could have worse problems. Don't get me wrong--open 3s have been killing us at times, and a lot of them are because we're not building out because of overhelp. But the kids are bringing the right attitude, motor, and will learn.
 

NomarsFool

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Nice solid win. The way the first quarter went it was certainly not looking good. I like how the team seems to be understanding that JB, JT, and KW are the offensive talents on this team and they need to be taking a lot of shots.
 

Jimbodandy

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Nice solid win. The way the first quarter went it was certainly not looking good. I like how the team seems to be understanding that JB, JT, and KW are the offensive talents on this team and they need to be taking a lot of shots.
Overall guys are making the right basketball plays, not just the supporting cast. The ball is moving, the guy with the best shot is taking it. Usually that's JT, JB, or KW. But they're also passing up meh shots for good shots for others generally (and each other too). I'm going to need the TV room to myself when GH comes back. This is exactly the type of flow that can accept another scorer without falling over imo.
 

DJnVa

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The Heat were on a back-to-back after a huge OT win against Toronto, so I downweight this one a lot.
That's a good point, but we're kind of also operating at less than peak efficiency. I would think a team on a back to back is still, relatively speaking, closer to it's peak than a team down 2 starters.

EDIT: Are there numbers out there to show how much worse a team is in certain areas on the second night of a back to back?

EDIT 2.0: Found some basic ones:
Offensive Efficiency
-0.1 Points/Per 100 Possessions 2nd game of a back to back
Defensive Efficiency
+0.9 Points/Per 100 Possessions 2nd game of a back to back
Pace
-0.2 Possessions – 2nd game of a back to back
 
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Jimbodandy

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That's a good point, but we're kind of also operating at less than peak efficiency. I would think a team on a back to back is still, relatively speaking, closer to it's peak than a team down 2 starters.
That's probably true.

Brad interestingly said post game that they expected Miami to start really fast and then lose momentum during the game, because of the B2B. I had never heard that observation before.
 

joe dokes

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That's probably true.

Brad interestingly said post game that they expected Miami to start really fast and then lose momentum during the game, because of the B2B. I had never heard that observation before.
I hear it in hockey all the time.
 

lovegtm

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That's a good point, but we're kind of also operating at less than peak efficiency. I would think a team on a back to back is still, relatively speaking, closer to it's peak than a team down 2 starters.

EDIT: Are there numbers out there to show how much worse a team is in certain areas on the second night of a back to back?
FWIW the Vegas line thought that the B2B mattered a lot: Celtics were around -6 iirc.

The Heat were playing like they really wanted to win though: Butler and Bam each went 37 mins.

I’ll call it a nice win but leave my right hand free for later victories.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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That's probably true.

Brad interestingly said post game that they expected Miami to start really fast and then lose momentum during the game, because of the B2B. I had never heard that observation before.
WAG but perhaps it has something to do with depleting energy reserves so that a player doesn't necessarily have as much energy to give on second game of back-to-back.

Also, the high ball pressure defense Brad uses seems to affect how teams play in the second half, and I would think would be really tough to deal with on a second night of a back-to-back.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Nice solid win. The way the first quarter went it was certainly not looking good. I like how the team seems to be understanding that JB, JT, and KW are the offensive talents on this team and they need to be taking a lot of shots.
Knowing ones roles is the one enormous difference between this years team and last years team. You can't have 6-7 guys all looking for their shots to put up numbers and think you can be successful. The game of basketball doesn't work this way. I'm loving how Ainge has re-structured this years roster to capitalize on taking advantage of players who aren't looking to score 20 every night.

WAG but perhaps it has something to do with depleting energy reserves so that a player doesn't necessarily have as much energy to give on second game of back-to-back.
Yes. This.

The players are mentally prepared to play B2B especially early on a road trip (See: Lakers last two games). Sometimes it doesn't matter how ready you are if you run out of gas after decompressing in the locker room on the second night when it becomes more difficult to restart your engines in the 3Q.
 

lovegtm

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Knowing ones roles is the one enormous difference between this years team and last years team. You can't have 6-7 guys all looking for their shots to put up numbers and think you can be successful. The game of basketball doesn't work this way. I'm loving how Ainge has re-structured this years roster to capitalize on taking advantage of players who aren't looking to score 20 every night.
Brad is also very obviously making a point of establishing a team hierarchy and talking about his "5 best players" etc. It's good to see him going against his initial instincts and learning from last year in that regard.
 

NomarsFool

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The ball is moving, the guy with the best shot is taking it.
They are certainly doing it - but there are still some shots that are taken when the ball hasn't been passed once. I'm not talking about transition plays - I expect that. It's one guy bringing the ball up the floor and then hoisting it up. Probably a pet peeve of mine from youth basketball - but I always feel like it's rare that the best shot you are going to have in a possession is in the first 5 seconds.

When Hayward was playing he was super efficient (hardly ever shot below 50%). Brown has been efficient. I'd like to see Tatum and Walker get their efficiency up a bit - but might be hard for now as they are really needed to put a lot of shots up.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Brad is also very obviously making a point of establishing a team hierarchy and talking about his "5 best players" etc. It's good to see him going against his initial instincts and learning from last year in that regard.
As one of Brad's harshest critics on here I also was adamant last year about giving him a full pass based on the awful roster balance Ainge put on his plate last year. I was also pre-season bullish on Brad winning COY while expecting this turnaround to take place not because Brad learned from last year but due to Ainge putting Brad and his roster in a much better position to succeed when building this roster. There was literally nothing you can do in defining roles for players who don't fit into those roles. Jamming a square peg into a round hole isn't going to work regardless of NBA coach.
 

lovegtm

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As one of Brad's harshest critics on here I also was adamant last year about giving him a full pass based on the awful roster balance Ainge put on his plate last year. I was also pre-season bullish on Brad winning COY while expecting this turnaround to take place not because Brad learned from last year but due to Ainge putting Brad and his roster in a much better position to succeed when building this roster. There was literally nothing you can do in defining roles for players who don't fit into those roles. Jamming a square peg into a round hole isn't going to work regardless of NBA coach.
I’m with you on last year’s roster construction (and said so during the season). It’s just nice to see Brad proactively trying to go above and beyond to set the roster expectations this year.
 

NomarsFool

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I'm glad the Celtics are getting the Nuggets on a 2nd night of a back to back as well. Talk about scheduling luck this week.
 

benhogan

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I'm glad the Celtics are getting the Nuggets on a 2nd night of a back to back as well. Talk about scheduling luck this week.
Then again they are getting the Knicks, so their starters should get plenty of rest. ;)

Plenty of blame to go around, and Brad rightfully accepted his mistakes from last year at the season's end presser. I believe Brad's use of Enes this season is a direct reflection on what he learned by starting MaMo last season. YMMV
 

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HomeRunBaker

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Then again they are getting the Knicks, so their starters should get plenty of rest. ;)

Plenty of blame to go around, and Brad rightfully accepted his mistakes from last year at the season's end presser. I believe Brad's use of Enes this season is a direct reflection on what he learned by starting MaMo last season. YMMV
Meh. I’m thinking more outside the box here in that this wasn’t Brads call. With Morris being a FA represented at the time by Klutch and Rich Paul I’m assuming starting Morris came directly from Ainge (and indirectly from Paul). In the big picture it wasn’t going to matter whether Morris got his minutes as a starter or off the bench but it sure smells like a case of a power broker making the call here.
 

DJnVa

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Meh. I’m thinking more outside the box here in that this wasn’t Brads call. With Morris being a FA represented at the time by Klutch and Rich Paul I’m assuming starting Morris came directly from Ainge (and indirectly from Paul). In the big picture it wasn’t going to matter whether Morris got his minutes as a starter or off the bench but it sure smells like a case of a power broker making the call here.
Well at least getting in good with Klutch helped us with his big client....

Oh, wait.
 

benhogan

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Well at least getting in good with Klutch helped us with his big client....

Oh, wait.
Brad must have taken the phone off the hook and cxld his google email account the last few weeks of the regular season when he took MaMo out of the starting lineup.

While I'm sure Brad confers with Danny about lineups/roles. I'd be absolutely shocked if Rich Paul/Klutch had any say if Marcus Morris Sr. started for the Celtics.

Anyways all of that is irrelevant. MaMo was much better being a top bench/offensive option and lighting up 2nd units without his defense getting as exposed... much like Enes Kanter this season. That's a fact and that's one of the things Brad took from last season IMO
 
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Eddie Jurak

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Carsen Edwards, for all his defensive limitations, gave us high energy/aggressive on-ball defense at the top which I believe is one of the keys to making CBS defense work. It also works very well on teams coming off back-to-backs. Hope we employ a very aggressive ball-hawking defense against the Nuggets on Friday, need to take advantage of these scheduling quirks.
Yes. The play where it looked like the 6'5" Herro was going to drive by him, but he recovered, ripped the ball away from Herro, ran the break and then got it to Wanamaker for an open 3 ws one of Edwards best plays all season.
 

Montana Fan

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I. Love. Kembah!

“Semi was great,” Kemba Walker said. “He was really loud, talking behind the defense, making sure everyone was in the right spots and that’s who Semi is for us as well. He’s a great player and we need him to be great defensively, make open shots like he’s doing, making the hustle plays. He’s always the first one to the floor and that’s what we need from him.”
Guy always seems to say the right thing and he seems like he means it.
 

NomarsFool

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Then again they are getting the Knicks, so their starters should get plenty of rest. ;)
Yup. Looks like perennial DPOY candidate MaMo really put on a clinic last night in keeping the starters from playing more than 25 minutes.
 

benhogan

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Yup. Looks like perennial DPOY candidate MaMo really put on a clinic last night in keeping the starters from playing more than 25 minutes.
My daily Marcus Morris Sr rant:

If you just stuck MaMo on a 2nd unit with 3 young, scrappy, defensive first players he would be fine. BUT when you stick him in a starting unit, and he brings his Philly Hero solo act it just kills the offensive flow. ADD in his worsening defense (which he has a VERY high opinion of) and NBA wings lick their chops when they get to play opposite MaMo.

I still have him and his ego leading the NBA in techs.
 

Jimbodandy

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My daily Marcus Morris Sr rant:

If you just stuck MaMo on a 2nd unit with 3 young, scrappy, defensive first players he would be fine. BUT when you stick him in a starting unit, and he brings his Philly Hero solo act it just kills the offensive flow. ADD in his worsening defense (which he has a VERY high opinion of) and NBA wings lick their chops when they get to play opposite MaMo.

I still have him and his ego leading the NBA in techs.
Complete agreement with MM as bench scoring that you can hide with second unit defensive guys. He's useful. Fwiw, I see a Kuzma as a good guy for that job for the same reasons.

What MM also brings is an edge, a bad attitude, which can be useful on the right team. It can also be a negative, but toughness belongs in his "pro" column imho.
 

Eddie Jurak

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His offense is still awful, but if he can hit 35% from three he's playable.

When Hayward returns it looks as if the rotation at 1 through 4 will be our top 5 players plus Semi and Wanamaker, while it continues to be mix and match at the 5 with Theis, Kanter, and Rob. Edwards, Grant, Green, Poirier, Langford and the 2-ways will be down to situational usage plus injury/load management situations. I imagine all 5 of those guys will get some looks in Maine.

That's a pretty good rotation. A bit disappointing to see Grant and Edwards out of the regular rotation, but hard to argue with.
 

lovegtm

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His offense is still awful, but if he can hit 35% from three he's playable.

When Hayward returns it looks as if the rotation at 1 through 4 will be our top 5 players plus Semi and Wanamaker, while it continues to be mix and match at the 5 with Theis, Kanter, and Rob. Edwards, Grant, Green, Poirier, Langford and the 2-ways will be down to situational usage plus injury/load management situations. I imagine all 5 of those guys will get some looks in Maine.

That's a pretty good rotation. A bit disappointing to see Grant and Edwards out of the regular rotation, but hard to argue with.
Grant's still fairly young for his class. It's rare for a #22 pick to come in and be a rotation staple of a good team, even if he ends up good eventually. I still think his story isn't over for the season: he showed a lot in the first couple games. The issue for him is that Semi has upped his game a notch and been more reliable. I think Brad was also sick of the overhelping and wide open 3s, which they cleaned up a lot against Miami and Denver.
 

Montana Fan

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His offense is still awful, but if he can hit 35% from three he's playable.

When Hayward returns it looks as if the rotation at 1 through 4 will be our top 5 players plus Semi and Wanamaker, while it continues to be mix and match at the 5 with Theis, Kanter, and Rob. Edwards, Grant, Green, Poirier, Langford and the 2-ways will be down to situational usage plus injury/load management situations. I imagine all 5 of those guys will get some looks in Maine.

That's a pretty good rotation. A bit disappointing to see Grant and Edwards out of the regular rotation, but hard to argue with.
Maybe he should spend some time with the Red Claws. Just kidding EJ. Then again, I typed that before reading the rest of your post.

I 100% agree with your rotation projection, and like that rotation, a lot. Give me that rotation healthy and I'll be ready to see this team go to battle 60 games from now.
 

The Social Chair

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Weird schedule coming up. We have Indiana and Philly back to back next week and then 5 days off before a game in Dallas.
 

lexrageorge

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I like how the team continues to establish its identity. They're becoming a difficult team to match up against, and have shown they can play with the league's better teams both at home and on the road. Next 2 games will be interesting.
 

bosockboy

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I like how the team continues to establish its identity. They're becoming a difficult team to match up against, and have shown they can play with the league's better teams both at home and on the road. Next 2 games will be interesting.
You probably didn’t mean this, but why is a home game against the Cavs interesting?
 

benhogan

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Just looking at the Celtics 5 losses this season & searching for some clues.

(SSS aside) In those losses:
1. They have all been on the road and 4 were with Hayward out.
2. The opponent has averaged 102.4ppg in regulation. So the defense has been fine
3. The Celtics have averaged 97.6ppg in regulation. So the offense seems to be an issue
4. The Celtics have shot 45-156 from the 3pt line (29%)
5. Kemba (5-27) & Smart (4-31) have combined for 9-58 from 3pt line (16%), rest of the team 36-98 (37%)

Kemba's lower 3pt% in those losses may be due to defensive blitzes and expect to see more hockey assists when he gets doubled/blitzed.
Going forward I'd expect Marcus Smart to post up guards, get paint touches and go strong to the rim which leads to layups/FTs (88% FT). OR kick-out to more efficient catch/shoot shooters (JB, Kemba, JT, Hayward) for step-in 3PAs.
 
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tbrown_01923

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Just looking at the Celtics 5 losses this season & searching for some clues.

(SSS aside) In those losses:
1. They have all been on the road and 4 were with Hayward out.
2. The opponent has averaged 102.4ppg in regulation. So the defense has been fine
3. The Celtics have averaged 97.6ppg in regulation. So the offense seems to be an issue
4. The Celtics have shot 45-156 from the 3pt line (29%)
5. Kemba (5-27) & Smart (4-31) have combined for 9-58 from 3pt line (16%), rest of the team 36-98 (37%)
Gordon coming back acting as another play maker and shooter should help. If they had Gordon for the duration do you speculate they drop less than 3 of those five? Or dsoes five still feel right?
 

lovegtm

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Gordon coming back acting as another play maker and shooter should help. If they had Gordon for the duration do you speculate they drop less than 3 of those five? Or dsoes five still feel right?
I imagine they win 2-3 of those. You’re going to drop some regular season games just because—it’s hard to maintain focus that long, and maybe not desirable.
 

benhogan

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Gordon coming back acting as another play maker and shooter should help. If they had Gordon for the duration do you speculate they drop less than 3 of those five? Or dsoes five still feel right?
I'd guess Utah Gordon's offensive efficiency probably changes 2 of those 4 tight losses.

The double/blitz on Kemba caught the Celtics a little flat-footed, but they have adjusted. Smart has also curtailed his 3PA since the Clipper loss.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Just looking at the Celtics 5 losses this season & searching for some clues.

(SSS aside) In those losses:
1. They have all been on the road and 4 were with Hayward out.
2. The opponent has averaged 102.4ppg in regulation. So the defense has been fine
3. The Celtics have averaged 97.6ppg in regulation. So the offense seems to be an issue
4. The Celtics have shot 45-156 from the 3pt line (29%)
5. Kemba (5-27) & Smart (4-31) have combined for 9-58 from 3pt line (16%), rest of the team 36-98 (37%)

Kemba's lower 3pt% in those losses may be due to defensive blitzes and expect to see more hockey assists when he gets doubled/blitzed.
Going forward I'd expect Marcus Smart to post up guards, get paint touches and go strong to the rim which leads to layups/FTs (88% FT). OR kick-out to more efficient catch/shoot shooters (JB, Kemba, JT, Hayward) for step-in 3PAs.
In their losses, the have been outscored by 27 points, more than half of which came in the opening night loss to Philly (by 14).
 

thehitcat

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In their losses, the have been outscored by 27 points, more than half of which came in the opening night loss to Philly (by 14).
To double up on this that means the other 4 losses all fall into the tossup category of one/two possession losses. So give it the old 50/50 for tossups and I'd suggest they'd have won two of those 4 with slightly better luck/injury luck etc. Course tossups work both ways so they might have dropped a couple more close ones that are currently in the W column...