2019 Game Ball Thread: Wk. 4 at Bills

Marciano490

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In the recent past, bad days were losses to the Lions or Jags or blowouts to KC. I’ll take a win on the road against a division rival as an off day any year.
 

Old Fart Tree

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This defense is the best I've seen since 2003-2004, maybe even better.

The injuries and lack of weapons piled up. Brady made terrible choices all game. McD didn't help. But anytime you win on the road against a Divisonal foe, it's a good day.

It's Game Ball Time!
Given the rules changes since ‘04, I think it’s hard to argue that their performance through four games in ‘19 isn’t vastly better. Lets see if they can maintain it through 16 or 19.
 

SamCassellsStones

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Given the rules changes since ‘04, I think it’s hard to argue that their performance through four games in ‘19 isn’t vastly better. Lets see if they can maintain it through 16 or 19.
Agreed, even though it’s still early. The 03-04 defense was also very good, but more of a “bend but don’t break” type. These guys don’t bend much, or break.
 

8slim

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The secondary. So many of our sacks and pressures were due to their smothering coverage. Allowed the LBs to tee off as well.

Bailey. 48 yard average and that’s with the tactical 29 yarder. Kid is a weapon.
 
Apr 24, 2019
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The newest angle I’ve seen in the Allen-Jones “meeting of the minds” looks a lot like the player initiating contact with the helmet is arguably Allen, not Jones. And as noted sanctimonious d-bag Tony Dungy put it on FNIA, I don’t know what more JJ could’ve done to avoid helmet to helmet contact.
 

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RoDaddy

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The D once again gets the game ball

Despite their ugly play, it was kinda of a perfect win for the Pats. They beat a tough conference rival in their house with no significant injuries that I know - all good. They also finally gave BB something to really complain about to the team for motivation. Finally, they couldn't get out of their own way too often today but still "gutted" out the W. This is something champions are able to do, and I'm guessing BB said something like that to them post game
 

Jimbodandy

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Jackson, Van Noy, Bailey
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The OL and Josh were butt. We're now officially advertising a run or pass play, depending on whether Michel is on the field or not. Josh needs to spin the topic wheel.
 

Rough Carrigan

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The OL and Josh were butt. We're now officially advertising a run or pass play, depending on whether Michel is on the field or not. Josh needs to spin the topic wheel.
And, we could do with a few less of those special pass plays that involve Brady doing an umbrella twirl while the line is not holding back the rush.
 

scottyno

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lifetime achievement game ball to slater for basically doing what he's done his whole career, even with that dumb penalty, be in the right place at the right time
 

m0ckduck

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Weird for the Pats to score only 3 second-half points and come out with a win. I can't think of the last time something like that happened.

I remember an early-season rock-fight win at home against the Raiders in 2014 that had similar aspects: our O-line not able to contain their defensive front, but their offense being mercifully incompetent. In that one, NE was held to 6 second-half points. That's the closest comp I can find off-hand to the D totally bailing out the O to this extent.

Looking a bit more, I see now a few blowout wins where they only "bothered" to score 5-6 points in second half. But no competitive wins where the O got suffocated to that extent. Hats off to the D.
 

SirPsychoSquints

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Weird for the Pats to score only 3 second-half points and come out with a win. I can't think of the last time something like that happened.

I remember an early-season rock-fight win at home against the Raiders in 2014 that had similar aspects: our O-line not able to contain their defensive front, but their offense being mercifully incompetent. In that one, NE was held to 6 second-half points. That's the closest comp I can find off-hand to the D totally bailing out the O to this extent.

Looking a bit more, I see now a few blowout wins where they only "bothered" to score 5-6 points in second half. But no competitive wins where the O got suffocated to that extent. Hats off to the D.
2013, hosting the jets, zero in the second half

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201309120nwe.htm
Older:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201012120chi.htmhttps://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200912200buf.htmhttps://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200712230nwe.htmhttps://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200712160nwe.htmhttps://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200410240nwe.htmhttps://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200312270nwe.htmhttps://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200311160nwe.htmhttps://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200211280det.htmhttps://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200211240nwe.htmhttps://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200112220nwe.htm
 
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Captaincoop

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From BSJ today. Interesting, it didn't feel like this watching the game:

Brady was pressured 11 times on 39 dropbacks. That’s only 28 percent which is not a high number, even for a pocket passer. Plus, Brady was not sacked and we only counted two quarterback hits. PRESSURE WAS NOT A FACTOR.
 

RetractableRoof

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Brady needs more practice time not less.
I was thinking along similar thoughts here. In years past, anytime there was a miscommunication between Brady and a receiver I always assumed it was the receiver that was off (either mentally or physically). This year with less practice time, I wonder if it is him being a little less sharp early in the year as they try to manage him. We'll never know (unless he acknowledges something in a press conference), but it changes my automatic reaction to a missed connection.

Fake Edit: I'm NOT in the Brady is losing it, sky is falling camp, just wondering about the affects of managing his throwing reps. He's also taken some hits this year already - maybe he's not 100 percent and it's messing with his mechanics.
 

axx

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From BSJ today. Interesting, it didn't feel like this watching the game:

Brady was pressured 11 times on 39 dropbacks. That’s only 28 percent which is not a high number, even for a pocket passer. Plus, Brady was not sacked and we only counted two quarterback hits. PRESSURE WAS NOT A FACTOR.
It did seem like Brady threw it away a ton.
 

lexrageorge

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From BSJ today. Interesting, it didn't feel like this watching the game:

Brady was pressured 11 times on 39 dropbacks. That’s only 28 percent which is not a high number, even for a pocket passer. Plus, Brady was not sacked and we only counted two quarterback hits. PRESSURE WAS NOT A FACTOR.
Likely the result of receivers not getting open in time. Neither of the team's top 2 receivers were healthy.
 

BigSoxFan

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Games like yesterday are going to make me wish that AB weren’t such a jackass. There was such a huge opportunity for him and big team need that he just pissed away. Yesterday looked like the WRs just weren’t getting open. Edelman has the ability but is banged up. Gordon really doesn’t get much separation anymore. At this point, I bet a healthy Harry can give us what Gordon is currently providing. Like Edelman, Gordon is probably banged up as well. Dorsett can get locked down. Meyers is a rookie and will generally be a non-factor most weeks.

None of this really is an issue if the running game starts working. Everything opens up once it does. Right now, teams can focus a lot more on our WRs than they could last year.
 

j44thor

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Jackson, Van Noy, Bailey
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The OL and Josh were butt. We're now officially advertising a run or pass play, depending on whether Michel is on the field or not. Josh needs to spin the topic wheel.
Wasn't Michel out there with 3 min left when Josh dialled up two play action passes instead of running clock? That was the single worst play sequence for me. Sony had a few productive runs to start the drive and rather than kill another min they dial up two incredibly low percentage plays. I understand it is in their DNA to go for the kill there but give Brady a chance to complete the pass then. Get Rex/White out there, don't limit yourself to 1.5 passing options.
 

PedroKsBambino

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From BSJ today. Interesting, it didn't feel like this watching the game:

Brady was pressured 11 times on 39 dropbacks. That’s only 28 percent which is not a high number, even for a pocket passer. Plus, Brady was not sacked and we only counted two quarterback hits. PRESSURE WAS NOT A FACTOR.
I don't really agree pressure was not a factor, I think Brady got rid of the ball early/quickly a number of times because he was worried about pressure. That is in part actual pressure, in part fear of pressure, and I think as others noted in part that he didn't see anyone open/getting open.
 

54thMA

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Games like yesterday are going to make me wish that AB weren’t such a jackass. There was such a huge opportunity for him and big team need that he just pissed away. Yesterday looked like the WRs just weren’t getting open. Edelman has the ability but is banged up. Gordon really doesn’t get much separation anymore. At this point, I bet a healthy Harry can give us what Gordon is currently providing. Like Edelman, Gordon is probably banged up as well. Dorsett can get locked down. Meyers is a rookie and will generally be a non-factor most weeks.

None of this really is an issue if the running game starts working. Everything opens up once it does. Right now, teams can focus a lot more on our WRs than they could last year.
Your preaching to the choir; a jackass is right. Million dollar talent, .05 cent head. What a waste of God given talent. Unless something changes, this team is going to go as far as the defense can carry them, which is fine by me, offense wins games, defense wins championships as the saying goes.
 

Super Nomario

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Wasn't Michel out there with 3 min left when Josh dialled up two play action passes instead of running clock? That was the single worst play sequence for me. Sony had a few productive runs to start the drive and rather than kill another min they dial up two incredibly low percentage plays. I understand it is in their DNA to go for the kill there but give Brady a chance to complete the pass then. Get Rex/White out there, don't limit yourself to 1.5 passing options.
Killing another minute doesn't really accomplish anything there. They needed first downs to keep the D off the field, and they thought misdirection was their best bet rather than playing it straight up. It didn't work, though the slant to Gordon was really close to working if Edmunds hadn't made a good play on it.

Also White was out there on the third down play, which was a regular dropback. So really your playcalling issue here is with one play.
 
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Red Averages

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Bills are likely the best defense the Patriots will face all year. As with most years recently, this offense will likely look a lot differently by December, with Watson, Harry, Wynn returning, and more stability (hopefully) on the O-line. Maybe even a Gronk return.

The fact that the Patriots are two games up (already) on a bye week, should have us all taking a deep breathe to realize they have plenty of time to figure out the offense - particularly given how historic this defense could end up being. Oh and the Punter might be a legitimate weapon.
 

MalzoneExpress

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The newest angle I’ve seen in the Allen-Jones “meeting of the minds” looks a lot like the player initiating contact with the helmet is arguably Allen, not Jones. And as noted sanctimonious d-bag Tony Dungy put it on FNIA, I don’t know what more JJ could’ve done to avoid helmet to helmet contact.
Honest question: If it was Frank Gore rather than Josh Allen running the ball and taking the hit, would that even have been a penalty?
 

DJnVa

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Gordon really doesn’t get much separation anymore. At this point, I bet a healthy Harry can give us what Gordon is currently providing.
This seems both overly pessimistic and overly optimistic.
 

BigSoxFan

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This seems both overly pessimistic and overly optimistic.
Disagree. Gordon’s production hasn’t been great so far. He’s on pace for 56/884/4. I think Harry could give similar production if he had starter reps.
 

tims4wins

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Let's not forget the Pats put up a whopping 25 and 24 points against the Bills in the 2 games last year. 7 of those points came on a D-Mac pick 6 in Buffalo. Brady's stat line was god awful in those games too. Their D plays well against the Pats. One of those things.
 

8slim

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From BSJ today. Interesting, it didn't feel like this watching the game:

Brady was pressured 11 times on 39 dropbacks. That’s only 28 percent which is not a high number, even for a pocket passer. Plus, Brady was not sacked and we only counted two quarterback hits. PRESSURE WAS NOT A FACTOR.
I'm not clear on what needs to happen to register a "pressure", but Brady threw the ball away quickly at least a half-dozen times to avoid any chance of being hit. I think at his age, Brady plays the long game at this point in the season. No need to be getting drilled repeatedly in week 4. I'm not fluent enough in Xs and Os to know precisely if it was defensive line pressure, blanket coverage by the secondary, or just a general unease with his own OL (and perhaps WRs), but I'm not sure what point the BSJ writer is trying to make. Clearly *something* was causing the passing game to falter.
 

lexrageorge

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Gordon looked strong against the Steelers, and then was relatively quiet against the Dolphins. Brady and Gordon clearly missed on a few plays during the Jets game where Gordon got banged up some. It wouldn't surprise me if he was fighting through something yesterday that didn't warrant being put on the injury report.
 

uncannymanny

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Honest question: If it was Frank Gore rather than Josh Allen running the ball and taking the hit, would that even have been a penalty?
Yes, almost certainly. Unsure why folks want to litigate this hit. It was in the open field, literally of the type and result that they put the rule in place for.
 

BigSoxFan

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Gordon looked strong against the Steelers, and then was relatively quiet against the Dolphins. Brady and Gordon clearly missed on a few plays during the Jets game where Gordon got banged up some. It wouldn't surprise me if he was fighting through something yesterday that didn't warrant being put on the injury report.
He just doesn’t look explosive right now. I’d feel better if I knew he was dealing with a lower body injury of some sort. I still have high hopes for him but as of right now, his impact has been meh.

I’m also a Harry fan boy so I’m happy to be on the optimistic side there.
 

uncannymanny

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I'm not clear on what needs to happen to register a "pressure", but Brady threw the ball away quickly at least a half-dozen times to avoid any chance of being hit. I think at his age, Brady plays the long game at this point in the season. No need to be getting drilled repeatedly in week 4. I'm not fluent enough in Xs and Os to know precisely if it was defensive line pressure, blanket coverage by the secondary, or just a general unease with his own OL (and perhaps WRs), but I'm not sure what point the BSJ writer is trying to make. Clearly *something* was causing the passing game to falter.
The Bills’ (excellent) DEs obliterated the pocket on almost every play while their secondary played excellent coverage. Tom Brady is 41 years old. It‘s not going to take pummeling hits anymore.
 

lexrageorge

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Yes, almost certainly. Unsure why folks want to litigate this hit. It was in the open field, literally of the type and result that they put the rule in place for.
I'm not sure anyone is saying the hit shouldn't have been a penalty. Helmet to helmet contact will get flagged.

Posters are reacting to the peanut gallery calling for ejection. The replays clearly show that the play was not worthy of an ejection.
 

Red Averages

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Gordon was also wide open for a TD and Brady missed the read, instead opting to throw a pick. Let's not write off Gordon just yet...
 

BigSoxFan

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Gordon was also wide open for a TD and Brady missed the read, instead opting to throw a pick. Let's not write off Gordon just yet...
Nobody is writing him off. He remains the most talented WR on the roster. But right now he’s not producing at even the level he was at last year. I am a huge fan of his and hope we get to see some big games from him in the coming weeks.
 

Van Everyman

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Edelman was also clearly a shell of himself yesterday. If there's one constant in the Brady era with the passing game it has always been the outlet receiver -- usually a slot guy: Brown-->Welker-->Amendola/Edelman (Gronk kind of played this role as well). White was the only guy they had healthy who was doing that yesterday and he's generally not as effective when they can key on him.
 

MalzoneExpress

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The poster asked if it “would even be a penalty.”
The reason I asked was because the runner lower his helmet and used the crown to make contact. It looked like JJones was lining up a shoulder hit that turned into helmet to helmet due to the runner. Maybe that doesn't matter. That's why I asked.
 

uncannymanny

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The reason I asked was because the runner lower his helmet and used the crown to make contact. It looked like JJones was lining up a shoulder hit that turned into helmet to helmet due to the runner. Maybe that doesn't matter. That's why I asked.
Sure, and I answered that. It’s going to be a penalty on someone. Probably 99/100 it’s going to be called against the defensive player. I’d say in this case, the runner is being tackled while the defensive player is awaiting contact, it’s the right call.
 

InstaFace

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Honest question: If it was Frank Gore rather than Josh Allen running the ball and taking the hit, would that even have been a penalty?
Yes?

It knocked his lights out and knocked him out of the game. People were only talking about an ejection because it was their QB and it was the Patriots, but if it were Frank Gore they'd have still thrown the flag. It's a penalty by the rules. Doesn't mean it's not legitimate to shout in reply, "what the hell is Jones supposed to do there, roll out the red carpet and concede the first down?!", but it's not a bad call by the officials.
 

DJnVa

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Disagree. Gordon’s production hasn’t been great so far. He’s on pace for 56/884/4. I think Harry could give similar production if he had starter reps.
My point wasn't about his pace but about your contention that he doesn't get any separation "anymore", like he's a 33 old WR, just hanging on.