2019 NFL: News & Transactions

lexrageorge

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Suspensions seem about right, given that it wasn't Garrett's first rodeo. I still think Rudolph may get a game for doing some of the instigating. Seems like they did the obvious ones first and got them out of the way before the weekend's slate of games.
 

tims4wins

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Is an indefinite suspension a bit of a cop out? I theory he could meet him in the next couple weeks and reinstate. Seems like a definite number or time frame would have been more in order.
It says at a minimum of the rest of the regular season and playoffs. So no.

Edit: I don't mean for this to be harsh, and not even 100% directed at you, but are people even reading the press release?
 

E5 Yaz

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And he absolutely shouldn't get anything.
He pulled the back of Garrett's helmet over his head while they were on the ground, then kicked him in the groin when they got back up ... that's worthy of a fine, regardless of what happened afterwards
 

RedOctober3829

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He pulled the back of Garrett's helmet over his head while they were on the ground, then kicked him in the groin when they got back up ... that's worthy of a fine, regardless of what happened afterwards
He could still get fined through the regular fine system. They took care of the major players in the situation today,. I just don't think he deserves a suspension.
 

lostjumper

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He could still get fined through the regular fine system. They took care of the major players in the situation today,. I just don't think he deserves a suspension.
Rudolph escalated the situation by intentionally cleating someone in the groin. If he doesn't do that, nothing that follows would have happened. I think he should at least get a game.
 

DanoooME

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Rudolph escalated the situation by intentionally cleating someone in the groin. If he doesn't do that, nothing that follows would have happened. I think he should at least get a game.
And if Garrett didn't slam him to the ground and lay on top of him after the ball had released on a meaningless play with SECONDS LEFT in the game with the Steelers down 2 TDs and no chance of a comeback, nothing would have happened and the game would have been over. Yes, Rudolph didn't help things there, but it all starts with Garrett's play and 99.9% of the blame needs to be laid at his feet.
 

E5 Yaz

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And if Garrett didn't slam him to the ground and lay on top of him after the ball had released on a meaningless play with SECONDS LEFT in the game with the Steelers down 2 TDs and no chance of a comeback, nothing would have happened and the game would have been over. Yes, Rudolph didn't help things there, but it all starts with Garrett's play and 99.9% of the blame needs to be laid at his feet.
And if the Steelers had just run some concession running play with 10 seconds left deep in their own end with no timeouts and down two scores, they don't put their quarterback in position to be hit.

Garrett's the primary offender, by far, but no one involved is blameless
 

Fishercat

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I am a bit surprised Rudolph didn't get anything. Obviously Garrett's assault is the biggest issue and Pouncey's assault is severely problematic at well, but Rudolph's instigation played into it in a pretty major fashion. The individual elements, even the groin kick (Suh/Schaub as precedent) isn't necessarily enough in itself but the NFL isn't exactly shy about punishing based on an overall situation either.

I imagine feelings on Randolph will vary based on how much an individual thinks game situation come into it. Like Danooo points out, it was a QB slam on a meaningless play...that Pittsburgh decided to run a pass on for some entirely unknown reason. There's always a series of events involved. I personally don't feel that someone doing a dramatically worse thing mitigates what the person impacted by it did, but I don't exactly disagree with any of the decisions to this point.
 

lostjumper

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And if Garrett didn't slam him to the ground and lay on top of him after the ball had released on a meaningless play with SECONDS LEFT in the game with the Steelers down 2 TDs and no chance of a comeback, nothing would have happened and the game would have been over.
Garrett deserves the majority of the blame, I never said he didn't. But with regards to your first sentence, that scenario has played out many times in the NFL before. But this situation ended differently than just about every other time. So what was the difference? Someone drove their spiked cleats into someone's nuts.
I don't understand portraying Rudolph as a helpless victim. Everyone is an asshole here!
 

Deathofthebambino

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I don't understand this whole issue about Rudolph kicking him in the groin. When that occurred, Myles Garrett was lifting him off the ground by his facemask. It sure looked to me like Rudolph instinctively stuck his leg out to push Garrett away from him. He may have caught him in the groin, or the thigh or whatever, but unless there is another replay I haven't seen, I didn't see him put his leg anywhere near Myles' groin until Garrett had his facemask and was literally lifting him off the ground with it.

That doesn't excuse Rudolph's action initially when he appeared to be pulling at Myles' helmet while on the ground nor going after him again once his helmet was off (although I'm not really sure how much of a threat he posed with no helmet, he was outsized by an exponential amount and his giant offensive lineman was between the two of them), but that shit happens like all the time. Garrett's reaction to lift him off the ground, violently rip his helmet off, and then swing it like a sledge hammer are way, way off the spectrum of what happens in these situations. Almost every former player I've seen has basically said the same thing "once the helmet comes off, folks generally calm down because everyone realizes careers are on the line...."
 

Fishercat

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I mean...like you said, once the helmet comes off, people generally calm down because everyone realizes careers are on the line. So in response to having his helmet removed, Mason Rudolph attempts to charge Myles Garrett?

I dunno, I don't have an issue with the decision on Rudolph whether it's nothing, a fine, or a suspension: he's clearly at worst the third worst person in this situation. From what i see

A. Myles Garrett took Mason Rudolph to the ground on a football play (I did not see a flag from the officials and it didn't honestly seem to me he was held down for an exceptional amount of time)
B. Less than a second after the takedown, Rudolph is grabbing at the back of Garrett's head/helmet
C. A separation is occurring and Rudolph is pushing off of Garrett using his leg on Garrett's groin
D. Garrett rips Rudolph's helmet on as he is being separated from Rudolph by Decastro (I think)
E. Rudolph attempts to go after Garrett by going behind Decastro
F. Garrett swings the helmet at Rudolph, is taken down by Decastro, and then punched/kicked by Pouncey in a defenseless position.

From my view, there's three different potential instigation points in that that Rudolph used to escalate the situation (B, C, and E). Any of those three doesn't occur and I don't think this ever happens. I have severe doubts that most other NFL QBs ever get themselves into that situation to begin with.

I don't think the NFL would have been wrong to suspend him or at least fine him given what it led to.

We also don't know what was said if anything but I don't think it will change much.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I think it's as simple as that the guy who got hit in the head gets largely absolved of whatever came before, in the court of public opinion, which is Roger's court.

It's a bit of absurd hypothetical but if there happened to be another player without a helmet and Garrett used Rudolph's helmet to hit that other guy, I bet Rudolph gets suspended for instigating a fight that escalated into a very violent act. But because he took the hit on his noggin, no punishment -- at least not immediately. Details could come out that make it look different in the court of public opinion.

Different sport with different sensibilities, but when Zinidene Zidane headbutted Marco Matarazzi it seemed shocking and he was pretty firmly blasted for losing his cool on the biggest stage in sports. That is still the dominant view, but when it ultimately came out what Matarazzi said to induce the head butt, public opinion shifted and people were more like "ah, ok, I guess I see why he went a little nuts." This was more ferocious, but this story is going to take on dimensions and wrinkles as time goes on.
 

bakahump

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The thing about A is that it really should have been a roughing the passer call. It was an egregious, unnecessary hit.
The steelers where still playing.
The Refs would have taken care of any Roughing penalties.
I get that your looking at Fishercats list. But there are reasons these guys dont resolve stuff themselves. They may be shitty but the Refs are paid to do this. Rudolph should have let them.
Even if they miss it there is still no excuse for Rudolph (or later Pouncey) to self police the situation in such an egregious way. (Decastro should get some credit for trying to keep things safe.)

And Myles Garrett is a scumbag.

Like alot of crimes, it not always a good person being assaulted by a bad person. Sometimes there are multiple bad people.
 

tims4wins

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The steelers where still playing.
The Refs would have taken care of any Roughing penalties.
I get that your looking at Fishercats list. But there are reasons these guys dont resolve stuff themselves. They may be shitty but the Refs are paid to do this. Rudolph should have let them.
Even if they miss it there is still no excuse for Rudolph (or later Pouncey) to self police the situation in such an egregious way. (Decastro should get some credit for trying to keep things safe.)

And Myles Garrett is a scumbag.

Like alot of crimes, it not always a good person being assaulted by a bad person. Sometimes there are multiple bad people.
It's fine to still be playing, but Garrett should have let up on Rudolph. I'd say that in the first quarter of a 0-0 game too. It should have been a roughing flag. I think Garrett went overboard possibly precisely because the game was over and a roughing call couldn't hurt. Which is why Rudolph's reaction was basically WTF are you doing. There was a lot of Suh in that Garrett play, from the start to the end.
 

bakahump

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I dont know @tims4wins these guys "are pros". They dont let up when its 42-10. If they're playing they should be going 100mph. Unless your kneeling out be prepared for the other guy to go 100mph. Garrett committed a foul. He would have been flagged for the foul. If He has a history, or Rudolph and the Steelers felt he took advantage of the last play situation then again they shouldnt self police. Report it to the league. (Also Maybe there is a reason you kneel out....and why didnt the steelers?)

And again just to be clear Garrett is a scumbag.
 

Greekca

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It's fine to still be playing, but Garrett should have let up on Rudolph. I'd say that in the first quarter of a 0-0 game too. It should have been a roughing flag. I think Garrett went overboard possibly precisely because the game was over and a roughing call couldn't hurt. Which is why Rudolph's reaction was basically WTF are you doing. There was a lot of Suh in that Garrett play, from the start to the end.
I agree with this. A 15 yard penalty in that context is not much of a deterrent nor is an ejection. The Browns - Jets game earlier this year was another sad display of Garrett clearly tackling QBs with the intention of causing injury (which he did). There is clear incentive for him to trade a 15 yard penalty for injuring the starting QB of a division opponent that they play again in 2 weeks. The most notable other player who tackles QBs with the intent to injure is Suh and last nights display was Garrett finally one upping Suh.

There is a clear instigator in this fight and that is Myles Garrett.

The league clearly needs strong deterrents for over aggressive play in garbage time situations.
 

tims4wins

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I dont know @tims4wins these guys "are pros". They dont let up when its 42-10. If they're playing they should be going 100mph. Unless your kneeling out be prepared for the other guy to go 100mph. Garrett committed a foul. He would have been flagged for the foul. If He has a history, or Rudolph and the Steelers felt he took advantage of the last play situation then again they shouldnt self police. Report it to the league. (Also Maybe there is a reason you kneel out....and why didnt the steelers?)

And again just to be clear Garrett is a scumbag.
I think there is a difference between playing hard and committing borderline fouls, but YMMV. You don't drive the QB into the ground in the 1st quarter or the 4th quarter, whether it is 0-0 or 42-10. It seems he took advantage of the game situation by doing something egregious and borderline dirty. I can see why Rudolph got pissed off. And the Steelers still throwing the ball doesn't give the Browns the right to play dirty. They can blitz, they can try to hit Rudolph legally, but it doesn't give them the right to throw cheap shots just because the Steelers are still playing hard.
 

E5 Yaz

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And again just to be clear Garrett is a scumbag.
Joe Thomas was on the Rich Eisen radio show this morning and said something I found enlightened. He knows Garrett, of course, and swears that this kind of action -- and his previous personal foul calls earlier this season -- are out of character.
Thomas said "that's just not who he is ... but that's who he was in that moment, and he's going to have to live with it."
 

bakahump

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I think there is a difference between playing hard and committing borderline fouls, but YMMV.
Exactly. It was borderline, perhaps even slightly over the border. But at the end of the day thats how the NFL has chosen to deal with a roughing the passer be it at 14:52 of the 1st or :03 of the 4th. Going all cowboy is not ok. Pissed off? yup You bet. Complain to the refs, complain in the Presser, Complain from Tomlinson and the Rooneys. But to try to pull off a helmet, kick re-engage and then nearly get killed. None of that was smart.

I could see a case for suspending him a game just for almost getting killed. "You are getting suspended because we cannot allow players to put themselves in situations they know could present danger to them and others (like a fight esp without a helmet). And that is clearly what you were doing. We are glad your not hurt but your suspended a game. Hopefully this will deter the Next player to chase after another player and escalate a (or continue to participate in an escalated) situation."

But yeah My Milage May Vary.
 

tims4wins

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Exactly. It was borderline, perhaps even slightly over the border. But at the end of the day thats how the NFL has chosen to deal with a roughing the passer be it at 14:52 of the 1st or :03 of the 4th. Going all cowboy is not ok. Pissed off? yup You bet. Complain to the refs, complain in the Presser, Complain from Tomlinson and the Rooneys. But to try to pull off a helmet, kick re-engage and then nearly get killed. None of that was smart.

I could see a case for suspending him a game just for almost getting killed. "You are getting suspended because we cannot allow players to put themselves in situations they know could present danger to them and others (like a fight esp without a helmet). And that is clearly what you were doing. We are glad your not hurt but your suspended a game. Hopefully this will deter the Next player to chase after another player and escalate a (or continue to participate in an escalated) situation."

But yeah My Milage May Vary.
That's all fair.
 

snowmanny

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Joe Thomas was on the Rich Eisen radio show this morning and said something I found enlightened. He knows Garrett, of course, and swears that this kind of action -- and his previous personal foul calls earlier this season -- are out of character.
Thomas said "that's just not who he is ... but that's who he was in that moment, and he's going to have to live with it."
How often do you have to do something before it’s no longer “out of character”
 

mauidano

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FWIW, WTF were the Steelers trying to do with 15 seconds left in the game and very deep in your own territory???? You are not going to win. Just run the ball into the line and go home. No one gets hurt. Throwing the ball into the flat like that wasn't going to change the dynamic of the game and it leaves multiple people vulnerable, the WR and the QB as we saw. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and go home. But noooooooo, Tomlinson is all good with it.

Rudolph wants to be a "tough guy" and mix it up with a 275-pound lineman. Absolutely no excuses for any of this and Garrett is fucked deservedly. But Rudolph doesn't come off looking very good in this either and he should just shut his mouth too. Ugly all the way around on National TV.
 

DJnVa

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Seems odd to see kids and stuff walking around. But I guess we're in uncharted territory here.

EDIT: Holy crap, his shirt. lol
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Seems odd to see kids and stuff walking around. But I guess we're in uncharted territory here.

EDIT: Holy crap, his shirt. lol
Love it.

He shook up the NFL when they were setting him up to fail. Now the whole world will get to see how good he still is. At least 1/3rd of the league should be inserting him as their starter immediately and anyone with a QB over 35 should be looking to sign him for when they retire.
 

sodenj5

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Absolutely sick for Tua. Completely aside from my obvious interest in him for Miami, he suffered a potentially career threatening injury up 35-7 in the first half against Mississippi State.

Very similar to Bo Jackson’s career ender. Tua has a better prognosis because he was airlifted to the hospital and is undergoing surgery tomorrow Should hopefully allow him to resume playing football at some point, but it’s very possible he has to sit a full season.
 

bsj

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The 3rd stronger could have won that game. Get up 2 scores and then take him out. If it tightens put him back in. This is not base ball. They can go back on. Awful.