Eh. They were pretty healthy, but they still dealt with a lot:When looking at last year's patriots team, one thing that I think about is just how insanely lucky the Patriots were from an injury perspective.
The big loss was Isiah Wynn at the beginning of the season, because I think he actually would have had a decent amount of playing time, but with Brown and Cannon it wasn't a massive overall impact. Meanwhile the rest of the guys were ones you really wouldn't have expected a lot of contribution from: Duke Dawson, Kenny Britt, Jeremy Hill, Eric Rowe and then a few games here and there for Cannon, Michel, Gronk, just one for Hightower and Burkhead, who was back for the playoffs.
I think where this team is concerning right now is lack of depth at OL, DL, LB and WR. In the NFL, you should expect 1-2 pre-season starters to be on IR by the end of the season. There's obviously time to fill out the roster, plus the draft, but that's my biggest concern going into 2019 right now.
Wonder if a team that has multiple 2’s would take a shot at Jones, like Indy, KC, or Houston.https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/03/12/report-patriots-place-restricted-tenders-on-josh-gordon-jonathan-jones/
2nd round tenders for Jones & Gordon
The Gordon one is interesting. They could have not done anything and it *seems* like if Gordon came back, he'd come back to NE either way. Pats showed a little faith in him I think.https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/03/12/report-patriots-place-restricted-tenders-on-josh-gordon-jonathan-jones/
2nd round tenders for Jones & Gordon
Yeah, these bastards just got my hopes up for a Gordon return.The Gordon one is interesting. They could have not done anything and it *seems* like if Gordon came back, he'd come back to NE either way. Pats showed a little faith in him I think.
I think LB is OK. Van Noy, Hightower, Bentley, Roberts - that's four deep at a position where you usually only play two. They could use a replacement for McClellan and Humber but those guys aren't seeing the field much anyway.I think where this team is concerning right now is lack of depth at OL, DL, LB and WR. In the NFL, you should expect 1-2 pre-season starters to be on IR by the end of the season. There's obviously time to fill out the roster, plus the draft, but that's my biggest concern going into 2019 right now.
Your expectations are out of whack on all of these. 16 games for 41-year-old Brady, 13 games out of bone-on-bone Michel, 13 games out of frequently-IR'd Gronk, 12 games out of frequently-IR'd Edelman, and 11 games out of perpetually-suspended Gordon are all above expectation. And all but Gordon were available and healthy for the playoffs. They were very lucky with injury.Eh. They were pretty healthy, but they still dealt with a lot:
Their 41 year old QB dealt with a knee issue for most of the year
Their starting RB only played 13 games.
Their All-Pro TE only played 13 games.
Their best WR was suspended for 4 games.
The WR they picked up only ended up playing 11 games.
They were also fortunate that the injuries they did have were at positions they could afford it. Wynn was replaced by Brown, Rowe by McCourty / Jackson, and Bentley by committee. They had a lot less depth at edge, WR, TE, S but stayed pretty healthy there.Wasn't Rowe originally expected to be the starter opposite Gilmore? They got lucky with J.C. Jackson's emergence (and to a certain degree that of Keion Crossen).
It's not that bad, I think, for this part of the offseason. Still a lot of FA to go and these are depth / rotational positions you can fill largely through the draft (rather than having to rely on a rookie to start).So where do things stand with team needs. I'm assuming Gronk is back, that nobody offers a second for Jones, and that Gordon rejoins the team (at least until his next suspension).
The biggest needs, to be addressed via FA or the draft, then seem to be:
OT3/4 - We need a veteran swing tackle and probably another developmental T in the draft (or a guy who can play inside but T in a pinch).
TE2 - Izzo might slot in as the new blocking TE but we need somebody else behind Gronk who can catch the ball and be relied upon to play a bunch of snaps if necessary. Don't think its Hollister.
WR3/4/5 - We need at least two WR, maybe three. This probably means at least one veteran who we feel good about in the system and at least one guy in the draft.
DT3 - Definitely need a big run stuffing DT.
DL - Depending on whether they want to use Bennett primarily inside or outside, at least one additional DL.
K - Somebody to kick FGs.
P - And somebody to punt the ball.
That is actually a lot of needs.
Small point, but Gordon is an original round tender. He was a second round pick so the only real consequence is $1 million cap savings for the Patriots, which is significant right now.https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/03/12/report-patriots-place-restricted-tenders-on-josh-gordon-jonathan-jones/
2nd round tenders for Jones & Gordon
Agree nearly across the board. On balance, its definitely a good situation. I do think they'll have to get a little creative with the cap because while many of these players can likely be found through the draft, as you say, there are a few positions where you probably can't just rely on plugging in a draft pick (or you'd probably only do that with a guy drafted at 32 that you feel very good about). Unless they're willing to draft a OT very high, which I doubt they're thinking about, they really need a veteran who can play non-disastrously on the outside if Wynn or Cannon gets hurt or if Wynn turns out to be a bust. Bring back Waddle is the obvious move if his market is reasonable. The same also goes for at least one of the DL and at least one of the WRs - there's too much to learn and too much uncertainty about how guys will adapt to bank on plugging and playing multiple rookies. And while I can maybe see them bringing in one new kicking specialist in the draft, it seems unlikely that they'd do that with both slots. All in all, its still a very manageable situation for this point in free agency but they'll have to do some effective bargain hunting on the free agent market, which is the case most years.I
It's not that bad, I think, for this part of the offseason. Still a lot of FA to go and these are depth / rotational positions you can fill largely through the draft (rather than having to rely on a rookie to start).
The exception, to me, is the bolded - I don't think they have a WR2 right now. I guess Gordon in theory but I think anything they get from him is a bonus. I wouldn't take the second-round tender as an indication they are relying on him (the $$ is not guaranteed).
I would also add:
depth S/SS - they got away without a backup for Chung, but he'll be 32 when the season starts. I guess maybe you can say Melifonwu, but we haven't seen anything from him yet
PR - I don't want Edelman returning all the punts at this stage of his career. Hopefully a WR can handle this
KR - they don't have one. Hopefully a WR can handle this
2 special teamers - to replace McClellan / Humber. The "depth SS" listed above can hopefully also do this
a 4th RB given the injury histories of Michel and Burkhead
ideally you'd want a better / higher-upside backup QB than Hoyer
Sounds like an increased trade value to me.After seeing scrubs like Billy Turner and Bobby Hart sign for $7 MM per and OK RT Ja'Waun James sign for double that, we can put the kibosh on the idea of jettisoning Marcus Cannon, right?
IANAL but technically Jones was not selected in a draft round lower than the 2nd round. He wasn't selected at all. You'd think that would be in there.Patscap is digging deep into the CBA. There was a reference in a tweet to the Patriots only getting a third rounder if Gordon were to be signed by another team and that in fact appears to be correct under an exception that I did not know existed. Because they gave a second rounder tender to Jones, who was undrafted, they are capped at a third rounder for Gordon:
(ii) Notwithstanding Subsection 2(b)(i) above, in the event that a Prior Club tenders any of its Restricted Free Agents originally selected in a draft round lower than the second round a Qualifying Offer that requires Draft Choice Compensation of one second round selection (the “(c)(ii) Upgraded Tender”), the Prior Club shall only be eligible to receive Draft Choice Compensation of one third round selection for any of its Restricted Free Agents originally selected in the second round of the Draft, unless such Restricted Free Agents have each received a Qualifying Offer of at least the amount of the (c)(ii) Upgraded Tender.
Interesting. The few times I've read actual language of the CBA on a particular point I've noticed that it's not always a model of clarity. For the most part thought it seems as though everyone kind of just goes by what they think its intent is unless there's a broohaha or something on a contentious issue.IANAL but technically Jones was not selected in a draft round lower than the 2nd round. He wasn't selected at all. You'd think that would be in there.
So the final Detroit numbers were 5/90 with a 6.3M cap hit 2019. But they said it couldn't be done!I understand very well how extensions work, you on the other hand, if you think Flowers is going to sign for 5/95 and have a cap hit of 5M in 2019...I don't know what to say.
I think we're making it more difficult than it is.But Gordon wasn't tendered at the first or second round tender, he was tendered at 'original round' tender, which for him happened to be second round. Is that the difference? Because that 'original round' wasn't an 'upgraded' tender.
So if it's an 'original tender', that caps as third round unless they offered him an 'upgraded tender' of second or first round tender.
I think, actually, the language is intended to say that if Gordon had been tendered at the second round level -instead- of original level, we would have two second round picks coming. Or if the other didn't exist, we would have one second round pick coming.I think we're making it more difficult than it is.
We gave Jones a 2nd round tender and Gordon an original. Without the other player those are each 2nd round picks coming to us if they signed elsewhere. Because there's 2, one gets bumped down to a 3rd.
I don't know---if what you are saying is true the Patriots didn't know this?I think, actually, the language is intended to say that if Gordon had been tendered at the second round level -instead- of original level, we would have two second round picks coming. Or if the other didn't exist, we would have one second round pick coming.
You left out this part:2-Prior Club shall only be eligible to receive Draft Choice Compensation of one third round selection for any of its Restricted Free Agents originally selected in the second round of the Draft
That's Gordon. It says nothing about how we tender Gordon, only that we UPGRADED one player (Jones) and Gordon was selected in 2nd round.
Once we UPGRADED someone to the 2nd round, we can't get 2 2nd round picks.
Yeah, that's how I would read it. Though I do think the question whether a player undrafted was "originally selected in a draft round lower than the second round" is a good one.I don't know---if what you are saying is true the Patriots didn't know this?
Here's the rule:
1--in the event that a Prior Club tenders any of its Restricted Free Agents originally selected in a draft round lower than the second round a Qualifying Offer that requires Draft Choice Compensation of one second round selection
That's us UPGRADING Jones to the 2nd round.
2-Prior Club shall only be eligible to receive Draft Choice Compensation of one third round selection for any of its Restricted Free Agents originally selected in the second round of the Draft
That's Gordon. It says nothing about how we tender Gordon, only that we UPGRADED one player (Jones) and Gordon was selected in 2nd round.
Once we UPGRADED someone to the 2nd round, we can't get 2 2nd round picks.
This is correct too, I think. I believe the rule is mainly geared at trying to discourage the use of the original round tender when you're tendering another player at the second round level, but yeah, if the Patriots had tendered Gordon at the $3.1 million level instead of the $2 million level then I think they would be entitled to a second rounder.You left out this part:
the Prior Club shall only be eligible to receive Draft Choice Compensation of one third round selection for any of its Restricted Free Agents originally selected in the second round of the Draft, unless such Restricted Free Agents have each received a Qualifying Offer of at least the amount of the (c)(ii) Upgraded Tender.
----
That seems to indicate to me that -if- every single RFA had received the qualifying offer of the Upgraded tender, then NE would have gotten second round picks for all the players.
You were asking why they had to make that kind of distinction in this case... I think in this case, they're basically saying that you need to have -all- your RFAs get the 2nd round tender in order for any player who was originally drafted in the second round to get a 2nd round compensation.
So if NE had tendered Gordon at the 2nd Round tender instead of the original tender, they would have gotten the second round pick for him too.
So the Patriots didn't know this? I'm inclined to believe they wouldn't make that mistake.So if NE had tendered Gordon at the 2nd Round tender instead of the original tender, they would have gotten the second round pick for him too.
I think you're jumping to conclusions. Why do you think the Patriots didn't know this and/or that it was a mistake?So the Patriots didn't know this? I'm inclined to believe they wouldn't make that mistake.
This is exactly what I was thinking too... the original tender is just fine a cap hold for someone with that much baggage.I think you're jumping to conclusions. Why do you think the Patriots didn't know this and/or that it was a mistake?
Whose going to sign Gordon? Why waste extra cap space for a guy that is probably still a longshot to play this season?
It's $2 million for a player that has an upside of a $10 million player. You take a shot because it's likely that he will be reinstated before the season.I think you're jumping to conclusions. Why do you think the Patriots didn't know this and/or that it was a mistake?
Whose going to sign Gordon? Why waste extra cap space for a guy that is probably still a longshot to play this season?
Well, the tender counts against the cap RIGHT NOW.Does Gordon’s tender count against the cap while he remains suspended?
That's assuming this article about the costs of suspensions is correct:The teams of the players will get a salary cap credit in the current season for the amount of the suspensions.
I think your last sentence is a bit optimistic at this point.It's $2 million for a player that has an upside of a $10 million player. You take a shot because it's likely that he will be reinstated before the season.
Pretty sure that for purposes of the tender, 'original round tender' means you get NO draft pick if you offered that to an undrafted player. All you get is the right to match the offer, otherwise you get the player at the original round tender level salary.Yeah, that's how I would read it. Though I do think the question whether a player undrafted was "originally selected in a draft round lower than the second round" is a good one.
Yup -- both for Jones and Gordon it will count against the cap at the start of the league year tomorrow. You need cap space to make the tenders even before they are signed or eliminated by acceptance of an unmatched free agent contract. Cap hit for the two RFAs works out to about $4.1 million when you take into account the tender amounts and back out the two who drop off from the top 51.Well, the tender counts against the cap RIGHT NOW.
What’s the $ difference for Gordon between original round and 2nd round tenders? I was under impression there was none.I think you're jumping to conclusions. Why do you think the Patriots didn't know this and/or that it was a mistake?
Whose going to sign Gordon? Why waste extra cap space for a guy that is probably still a longshot to play this season?
$1,070,000What’s the $ difference for Gordon between original round and 2nd round tenders? I was under impression there was none.
Okay. Thanks. I was having some confusion over the fact that original round was not equal to 2nd round tender IF the player was a 2nd rounder.$1,070,000
Yeah, I learned it for the first time this year too. Relying on patscap for this info, so, you know, if could be wrong but he usually gets it right and he's definitely using the $2m number for his cap computation, not the $3 million.Okay. Thanks. I was having some confusion over the fact that original round was not equal to 2nd round tender IF the player was a 2nd rounder.
I find another team signing Gordon unlikely. He could not make it through a season in THE best circumstances imaginable. This after a Battan Death March in Cleveland.It's $2 million for a player that has an upside of a $10 million player. You take a shot because it's likely that he will be reinstated before the season.
Patterson is getting $5 million a year from Chicago. So I...stand corrected. Yikes.I assume that Dorsett, Hogan, and Patterson won't cost much of anything. Who's going to give these guys any real money?
One of our colleagues indicates that Humphries is stayin put in Tenn.In BB we trust and all, but with another receiver (OBJ) off the board, I'm officially gonna start getting nervous if Dorsett signs somewhere else in the next few days
Golden Tate...One of our colleagues indicates that Humphries is stayin put in Tenn.
Who of note is left as a potential FA signing? Anyone?
Always wanted him. Just as I always wanted Sprowles. But when several opportunities to get the guy present themselves, and the Patriots pass, I just figure they are not really interested.Golden Tate...