2019 Pats: In-Season Roster & Injury Discussion

JokersWildJIMED

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Koo named special teams player of the week...there were plenty of folks here clamoring for his signing when he came in for a tryout, but for some reason they needed to go with Nugent.

In season moves, which have been such a trademark of this team, have certainly not worked out in 2019 as in the past.
 

DJnVa

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Koo named special teams player of the week...there were plenty of folks here clamoring for his signing when he came in for a tryout, but for some reason they needed to go with Nugent.

In season moves, which have been such a trademark of this team, have certainly not worked out in 2019 as in the past.
He did go 4-4 on FGs but he essentially won the award because he recovered a fumble.
 

kartvelo

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It might also be a hedge that there's more wrong physically with TB12 than they're letting on
He looks hurt to me. It's hard to be sure, what with him usually not having as many opportunities to throw off his back foot this year due to the turnstile OLine, but although he manages a few hard and/or long throws each game, most throws look remarkably duck-like the past several games. And the accuracy is down. I suspect the elbow is a problem.
 

RetractableRoof

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He looks hurt to me. It's hard to be sure, what with him usually not having as many opportunities to throw off his back foot this year due to the turnstile OLine, but although he manages a few hard and/or long throws each game, most throws look remarkably duck-like the past several games. And the accuracy is down. I suspect the elbow is a problem.
Your thought is also supported by them keeping Kessler around, when it would seem they could use a center (just taken off the practice squad by the Jaguars), or another OL as insurance.
 

E5 Yaz

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Your thought is also supported by them keeping Kessler around, when it would seem they could use a center (just taken off the practice squad by the Jaguars), or another OL as insurance.
That's the line of discussion that Kartvelo was responding to
 

DJnVa

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Pats have sighed PK Josh Gable to PS. He’s the dude with the viral YouTube kicking videos.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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He looks hurt to me. It's hard to be sure, what with him usually not having as many opportunities to throw off his back foot this year due to the turnstile OLine, but although he manages a few hard and/or long throws each game, most throws look remarkably duck-like the past several games. And the accuracy is down. I suspect the elbow is a problem.
If I may go full "tin foil hat" for a moment... the wrap that was on TB12's elbow during his postgame presser was ginormously conspicuous -- I wonder if that was a conscious choice and not a medical necessity. Put another way, if there were a reason for the Pats to want to present his injury as no big deal, wouldn't they have wrapped the elbow differently for that 15-minute appearance, or given him a big hoodie to wear over it?

Also have some interesting theories on how Bernard Pollard shot JFK.
 

RetractableRoof

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Onside kick specialist?
I've always wondered why the kicker didn't work on it to the point where he can just get up to the ball and drill it as hard as possible right at the closest up man from the other team. Just all heat aimed right at the chest. I'd bet a high percentage wouldn't field it clean. Edit: especially if it was spinning longways as well.
 

Saints Rest

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I've always wondered why the kicker didn't work on it to the point where he can just get up to the ball and drill it as hard as possible right at the closest up man from the other team. Just all heat aimed right at the chest. I'd bet a high percentage wouldn't field it clean. Edit: especially if it was spinning longways as well.
My guess is because if it’s coming in that hot, it’s highly likely to end up OOB.
 

Bowhemian

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My guess is because if it’s coming in that hot, it’s highly likely to end up OOB.
Yeah, but so what? There is no risk if the ball goes OOB, other than you have 0 chance of recovery.
If the receiving team recovers the ball, they get it at that spot, somewhere around the 40 going in.
If the ball goes OOB, the receiving team can choose a re-kick (highly unlikely) or will get the ball at the 40 going out.
 

kelpapa

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I've always wondered why the kicker didn't work on it to the point where he can just get up to the ball and drill it as hard as possible right at the closest up man from the other team. Just all heat aimed right at the chest. I'd bet a high percentage wouldn't field it clean. Edit: especially if it was spinning longways as well.
I can't remember what game, but this just happened a few weeks ago. And I think the kicking team recovered.
 

BigJimEd

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You'd have to figure the probability of being able to hit a guy 10-15 yards away.
A guy that would be trying to avoid it as
the front line is taught to let that ball go through and block in that situation.

That gives the second line more time to recover. The harder the ball is kicked the less time the kicking team has to get there.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I can't remember what game, but this just happened a few weeks ago. And I think the kicking team recovered.
I think that was a non obvious onside situation where the receiving team player was starting to move away from the line of scrimmage. In an obvious onside situation ten yards seems like a decent amount of notice to see when a kicker is winding up to kick it hard and to react.
 

DJnVa

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Yeah--I just don't think you'd be able to consistently drill a person 30 feet away. Remember with the new rules there's only 5 players on each side. It's gotta be pretty hard to nail one and then hope the deflection is in the correct direction. Seems much more repeatable to kick it into ground, hope for high bounce.
 

joe dokes

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I've always wondered why the kicker didn't work on it to the point where he can just get up to the ball and drill it as hard as possible right at the closest up man from the other team. Just all heat aimed right at the chest. I'd bet a high percentage wouldn't field it clean. Edit: especially if it was spinning longways as well.
It's only relatively recently that almost *all* onside kicks are of the "make the first and only bounce 20 feet high" variety. To me, that eliminates the biggest advantage the kicking team has: the shape and unpredictable bounces of a ball that can bounce multiple times in multiple directions brfore it even gets to a receiver. Those types of kicks seemed to predominate years ago. And if the rules make it nearly impossible to wipe out the high-bounce receiver, it seems that the multiple-bounce / hard grounder is the better way to go.
 

soxhop411

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From this morning:

FOXBORO, MASS. — Julian Edelman might be more in need of a first-round bye than anybody on the Patriots roster.

The New England receiver will play Sunday afternoon against the Miami Dolphins despite nagging shoulder and knee injuries, according to NFL Media’s Mike Giardi. While Edelman’s knee ailment has received much attention, it’s his shoulder issue that is even more worrisome.

“He continues to get treatment on his tendenosis in that left knee, and also his injured shoulder, which I’m told is actually worse than you could possibly imagine,” Giardi said Sunday morning. “But here he is, gutting it out.”


This team was not doing shit in the playoffs with the offense we currently have + a severely banged up JE.. I wouldn't be shocked if he gets some type of procedure/surgery after the season..
 

brandonchristensen

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JMDurron

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That shoulder injury might explain why we saw Harry coming in and trying (and failing) to make some of the blocks in the running game that might otherwise have been handled by Edelman. How many times have we seen Edelman come in and take out a LB or DE from the outside to spring a running play? Harry got obliterated on the one I saw, but trying it makes sense if they're trying to protect Edelman's shoulder.
 

tims4wins

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View: https://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/1216742475425046528


Andrews sounds optimistic. This is awesome news. In terms of having a good offense in 2020, there are several important components:
- McDaniels returning (check!)
- Andrews returning (hopefully!)
- Brady returning (hopefully!)
- Thuney returning (hopefully!)
- Finding a better solution at TE (pray for Gronk!)
- Improving at WR (I am optimistic for Edelman, Harry, and Sanu, but finding one more guy would be nice)
- Bring Chad O'Shea back (hopefully!)

Edited to add O'Shea
 
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InstaFace

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If all of those people return, you won't be able to read the forum through the haze of splooge.

Gronkowski is done-ski, but the Andrews news alone is cause for celebration. I mean, that was a life-threatening situation, if he's got it under control that's great. But my understanding of the prognosis was that the 95th-percentile outcome was "you'll be fine the rest of your life, but your NFL career is done".
 

SeoulSoxFan

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If all of those people return, you won't be able to read the forum through the haze of splooge.

Gronkowski is done-ski, but the Andrews news alone is cause for celebration. I mean, that was a life-threatening situation, if he's got it under control that's great. But my understanding of the prognosis was that the 95th-percentile outcome was "you'll be fine the rest of your life, but your NFL career is done".
I don't know why but the Ravens' one-and-done somehow turned my outlook on the 2020 season around.

Having Andrews back would be just terrific. Add a splash of 2nd-year jump for Wynn, a dash of health for Cannon, and a truckful of dollars for Thuney and the line is all set.
 

JMDurron

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I don't know why but the Ravens' one-and-done somehow turned my outlook on the 2020 season around.
I'm with you, with one minor tweak. Watching the Titans dismantle that Ravens team a week after the Patriots just barely came up short against them turned my outlook on the 2020 season around.
 

BaseballJones

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I'm with you, with one minor tweak. Watching the Titans dismantle that Ravens team a week after the Patriots just barely came up short against them turned my outlook on the 2020 season around.
I was actually ok with the Patriots' season (I mean, I was bummed for all the reasons everyone else was) before the Titans smoked the Ravens. But once that happened, I thought, you know, the Patriots were WAY more competitive with Tennessee than Baltimore was. And the reality is, the Pats' defense was designed with Kansas City in mind, not a fearsome power running game like Ten has. Ten just crushed the Ravens. But the Pats' D held them to well below what they had been doing, in both points and yards. Edelman makes that first down catch and the Pats probably win the game.

The Pats did not play great down the stretch, but they were clearly a good team that had a legit shot. I'm good with things.
 

E5 Yaz

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Did they list him on the injury reports? there goes another draft pick
 

Harry Hooper

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He put "good" in quotation marks, but maybe should have done the same to "tore."
 

PedroKsBambino

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Did they list him on the injury reports? there goes another draft pick
Technically, I think (checking with the group) the requirement is that anyone the team medical staff treats has to be listed, right? So if all of Watson's treatment was by the TB12 person not affiliated with the team they might not have done anything wrong?
 

lexrageorge

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The actual policy:


If Ben Watson hurt his Achilles, then it would likely be considered to be "reportable", but not sure how easy it would be to enforce. If he tells the training staff he has pain in his ankle, and they rub it down or do whatever it is they do to relieve the pain, it's hard to say whether that would be reportable. Pain is not an injury. He could have decided to play through it and never make a big enough deal of it for the training staff to recommend any further tests.

It's also possible he could have got hurt during training camp; there is no injury report during camp, and as he was suspended for the first 4 weeks he would not have needed to be included in the reports during that time. By the time he returned, he may have felt good enough to play with daily rub downs. Again, not clear that would be reportable.

Or, maybe he got hurt in the playoff game.

EDIT: Thanks for the correction @E5 Yaz
 

lexrageorge

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If he takes all of his reps in practice then they don’t have to report it.
Not entirely correct. From the link I posted earlier:

As one example, assume a club’s quarterback suffers an injury to a finger of his right (throwing) hand during the club’s first game of the season. After treatment, he is able to finish the game despite his injury. Given the injury’s effect upon the player’s performance, and the fact that he is a key player, the injury must be listed on the club’s Practice Report each day of the following week, even if the player takes all the reps in practice, and even if the club is certain that he will play in the club’s next game. In such a case, the player should be listed as “Full Participation (right finger)” in the Practice Report, but would not be listed in the club’s Game Status Report for Week 2 because the player is certain to play in the club’s upcoming game. See Section 2 (Game Status Report) on page 5. The club must continue to list the player on its weekly Practice Reports until the player’s injury no longer affects the player’s performance. [Underlines from original]
 

EL Jeffe

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To my knowledge, it's impossible to play with an actual torn Achilles. This isn't like Phil Rivers playing on a torn ACL (which was genuinely amazing). You can walk off the field with a torn ACL (which happens often enough). You're not walking off the field with a torn Achilles.

I'm assuming this is hyperbole on Watson's part.
 

joe dokes

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To my knowledge, it's impossible to play with an actual torn Achilles. This isn't like Phil Rivers playing on a torn ACL (which was genuinely amazing). You can walk off the field with a torn ACL (which happens often enough). You're not walking off the field with a torn Achilles.

I'm assuming this is hyperbole on Watson's part.
Sonny jurgensen walked (limped) off after his torn Achilles, iirc.