2019 Presidents Cup

cshea · Dec 9, 2019

The Presidents Cup is Wednesday-Saturday this week in Melbourne, Australia. Doesn’t quite get the juices flowing like the Ryder Cup, but at the very least we get a few days of team match play in prime time.

The format is slightly different from the Ryder Cup. One session of 5 matches on Wednesday and Thursday, then the two sessions of 4 matches on Friday before Saturday singles. 2 extra matches so 30 points available.

Team International, captained by Ernie Els:

Marc Leishman
Hideki Matsuyama
Louis Oosthuizen
Adam Scott
Abraham Ancer
Haotong Li
CT Pan
Sung-Jae Im
Adam Hadwin
Ben An*
Joaquin Niemann
* An is replacing a *shockingly* injured Jason Day

Team USA, captained by Tiger Woods

Justin Thomas
Dustin Johnson
Patrick Cantlay
Xander Schauffele
Webb Simpson
Matt Kuchar
Bryson DeChambeau
Tony Finau
Gary Woodland
Patrick Reed
Tiger Woods
Rickie Fowler*
* Fowler is replacing an injured Brooks Koepka

Tiger is doing the whole playing captain thing. A little easier to do at the Presidents Cup because there is only 1 day of multiple sessions, so he’s not decision making on the fly.

The US typically romps- in 2017 they were a half point away from winning the thing before singles. The top guys from the International team are good but they have a hard time matching the depth of the US. It is a road game though and maybe Reed starts tossing bombs around the American team room or something and they become a disaster. I’m rooting for a Reed 0fer and a competitive week.

edit: this is what happens when I pause typing and don’t refresh before hitting submit. Delete please.

EvilEmpire · Dec 9, 2019

Moving this from the other thread. Couldn't figure out how to move the entire post, I think because it was the thread starter.

Some good information for those that are interested.

cshea said:
The Presidents Cup is Wednesday-Saturday this week in Melbourne, Australia. Doesn’t quite get the juices flowing like the Ryder Cup, but at the very least we get a few days of team match play in prime time.

The format is slightly different from the Ryder Cup. One session of 5 matches on Wednesday and Thursday, then the two sessions of 4 matches on Friday before Saturday singles. 2 extra matches so 30 points available.

Team International, captained by Ernie Els:

Marc Leishman
Hideki Matsuyama
Louis Oosthuizen
Adam Scott
Abraham Ancer
Haotong Li
CT Pan
Sung-Jae Im
Adam Hadwin
Ben An*
Joaquin Niemann
* An is replacing a *shockingly* injured Jason Day

Team USA, captained by Tiger Woods

Justin Thomas
Dustin Johnson
Patrick Cantlay
Xander Schauffele
Webb Simpson
Matt Kuchar
Bryson DeChambeau
Tony Finau
Gary Woodland
Patrick Reed
Tiger Woods
Rickie Fowler*
* Fowler is replacing an injured Brooks Koepka

Tiger is doing the whole playing captain thing. A little easier to do at the Presidents Cup because there is only 1 day of multiple sessions, so he’s not decision making on the fly.

The US typically romps- in 2017 they were a half point away from winning the thing before singles. The top guys from the International team are good but they have a hard time matching the depth of the US. It is a road game though and maybe Reed starts tossing bombs around the American team room or something and they become a disaster. I’m rooting for a Reed 0fer and a competitive week.

edit: this is what happens when I pause typing and don’t refresh before hitting submit. Delete please.

Average Reds · Dec 10, 2019

Cameron Smith says the quiet part loud:

“If you make a mistake maybe once, you could maybe understand, but to give a bit of a bulls--t response like [blaming] the camera angle … that’s pretty up there,” Smith said, via the Australian Associated Press.

”I know Pat pretty good and he’s always been nice to me, so I don’t want to say anything bad about him,” Smith said. “But anyone’s cheating the rules, I’m not up for that.”

Predictably, Woods and the team are rallying around Reed because they need him this week. (They really have no choice.)

“I think Pat will be fine,” Woods said on Tuesday, before his team’s first practice round. “Pat is a great kid.

“He’s handled a tough upbringing well and I just think that he’s one of our best team players, and that’s one of the reasons why all the guys wanted him on the team.”

Patrick Reed is absolutely going to suck all the oxygen out of the room this week.

Lots of stories, but the Cameron Smith quotes and a lot more are here:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/pga-tour-cameron-smith-not-about-patrick-reed-cheating-excuses-hero-world-challenge-presidents-cup-royal-melbourne-001742313.html

cshea · Dec 10, 2019

The US strategy appears to be to laugh the Reed incident off:

View: https://twitter.com/dylan_dethier/status/1204237121147604992?s=21

I was a little surprised Reed was a captain’s pick in the first place. He didn’t qualify and his shitty performance and the subsequent fallout from his comments post-France gave them enough room to leave him behind.

Conigliaro's Potential · Dec 10, 2019

Reed is really, really lucky he did what he did right before the President's Cup and not the Ryder Cup. His career might be over if people actually cared about the results this week.

Doug Beerabelli · Dec 10, 2019

Why do you say that, CP? I fully understand the haterade on Reed for this, and the level of response is heightened due to his past, but he committed a penalty, clear as day on TV, took the penalty (and lost the tournament in large part because Of the minus 2 strokes) hemmed a bit on his initial response, and later clearly stated he made a mistake (yes, it would have been dumb to do otherwise).

He said it wasn’t intentional. Many may not believe him, but there some wiggle room on it being a waste area where the club can be grounded. If he was intentionally trying to get away with something, there’s like zero chance he’d ever be successful in that endeavor (well known player in contention on TV event). Very ballsy on his part if he was.

He made a mistake, paid the price, and eventually owned up to it. Maybe not the most honorable or self aware manner, of course. He should have called it on himself from the start, but he’s not the first player to not do that and then get penalized later, or face scrutiny for a questionable move (the Presidents Cup captain. has been there before).

Is he a jerk? Yes. Do I root for him? Not really. Should this “end his career” if this was Ryder Cup scrutiny? Seems a bit extreme and hot- takey. Unless he’s done something that warrants a ban from competition, of course, which I surmise would require clear intent on his part, or grossly negligent conduct. IMO, this happening in a waste area where the club can be grounded doesn’t arise to that level, I’m not knowledgeable enough of the rules for PGA tour participation or Ryder Cup participation, or if individual tournament could ban an otherwise qualifying player on some morals clause.

That all being said, I won’t shed a tear for him if the crowds get rough and other players continue to call him out on it.

cshea · Dec 10, 2019

The video of Reed doing the same thing, on the same golf course, in 2015 cuts the legs out of any “unintentional” defense he puts up. I’m also not sure the waste bunker gives him much wiggle room. Whether you can ground your club or not, you absolutely cannot improve your lie. It’s a rule any twice a week amateur knows, so there is no excuse for a tour pro to not know you can’t do that.

I’m not sure I’d go as far as calling it a career ender, but that incident was as flagrant a rules violation as I can recall, at least recently. It wasn’t like DJ at Whistling Straights.

Comfortably Lomb · Dec 10, 2019

Does anyone care about these teams? I’d rather they told Tiger and Ernie to pick whoever they want, regardless of country, and then square off.

cshea · Dec 11, 2019

I don’t really care either. I’ll end up rooting for the US because I’m a Tiger honk and he’s the captain but that’s about it. Honestly, I don’t like or care for 6 of the American players.

Four ball kicks this off tonight:

Tiger/JT vs. Leishman/Niemann
Schauffele/Cantlay vs. Im/Hadwin
Finau/Bryson vs. Scott/An
Reed/Simpson vs. Pan/Matsuyama
Woodland/DJ vs. Oosty/Ancer

Conigliaro's Potential · Dec 11, 2019

cshea said:
The video of Reed doing the same thing, on the same golf course, in 2015 cuts the legs out of any “unintentional” defense he puts up. I’m also not sure the waste bunker gives him much wiggle room. Whether you can ground your club or not, you absolutely cannot improve your lie. It’s a rule any twice a week amateur knows, so there is no excuse for a tour pro to not know you can’t do that.

I’m not sure I’d go as far as calling it a career ender, but that incident was as flagrant a rules violation as I can recall, at least recently. It wasn’t like DJ at Whistling Straights.

@Doug Beerabelli - yeah, I'm with cshea here regarding the question of Reed's intent. And if this happened before the Ryder Cup, when the entire golf world would be focusing on Reed and dissecting this incident forensically - and, e.g., European journalists would be comparing Reed to someone like Simon Dyson, who got a two-month (suspended) ban despite being cleared of trying to cheat when he illegally tapped down a spike mark in Shanghai in 2013, and European fans would start heckling Reed maliciously, maybe even enough to cause him to blow a gasket - the PGA Tour would have to take action. No, it wouldn't literally end Reed's career, but everyone in golf would be asked about the incident and have to take sides, and the number of people siding against Reed would mark him down as a long-term pariah. He might even be expelled from the Ryder Cup team before getting a chance to participate. But because this is the President's Cup, a few mealy-mouthed truisms on all sides will be enough to put out the fire, at least until Reed tries to pull a stunt like this again.

(You should listen to the NLU podcast about the Reed incident - 20 minutes or so at the top of their most recent episode.)

cshea · Dec 11, 2019

It really is amazing how bad they are at showing golf.

cshea · Dec 11, 2019

Double post. But Tiger birdied 2 so they are 2 up. Niemann looks shakey.

Doug Beerabelli · Dec 11, 2019

I hear ya, CShea and CP. I’ll try to give that podcast a listen.

cshea · Dec 11, 2019

Tiger’s birdied 3 of 5 holes, him and JT are 3 up already.

This is a fun golf course.

ernieshore · Dec 11, 2019

TFP said:
Oh my god make the commercials stop.

Amen. It’s the same approach NBC/Golf Channel does for the British Open - and it’s the worst intrusion of commercials in broadcast sports. (And what they do with NASCAR is awful too). Plus they don’t even make it up later by going “commercial free” at the end - like Fox does with golf, or NBC does with the Tour de France.

Average Reds · Dec 11, 2019

I disappointed that they are showing golf at this point. I mean, why not break the mold and go all commercials?

cshea · Dec 11, 2019

Then we comeback to a flash back. Good grief.

cshea · Dec 11, 2019

3 putts
Golf pass spot
1 putt

Commercial

ernieshore · Dec 11, 2019

I’m guessing that figure includes the “Playing Through” commercials, but it feels even worse than that.

Average Reds · Dec 11, 2019

Tiger with a pretty sweet sand shot there.

Average Reds · Dec 11, 2019

Adam Scott seems like an exciting guy.

cshea · Dec 11, 2019

“Reed has played 3 shots but has not reached the green” is always fun to hear.

cshea · Dec 11, 2019

Tiger’s been the best player on either side. Bad start for the rest of the Americans.

Comfortably Lomb · Dec 11, 2019

Tiger is playing like he's just better than the rest of these guys.

cshea · Dec 11, 2019

DJ with a near ace on a 330 yard par 4.

...and he air balls the putt

Comfortably Lomb · Dec 11, 2019

I should really spend the winter rolling 5-6' putts.

But fuck it, I'm going to work on a solid club twirl.

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat · Dec 11, 2019

cshea said:
I don’t really care either. I’ll end up rooting for the US because I’m a Tiger honk and he’s the captain but that’s about it. Honestly, I don’t like or care for 6 of the American players.

Four ball kicks this off tonight:

Tiger/JT vs. Leishman/Niemann
Schauffele/Cantlay vs. Im/Hadwin
Finau/Bryson vs. Scott/An
Reed/Simpson vs. Pan/Matsuyama
Woodland/DJ vs. Oosty/Ancer

Okay, I have to know who the 6th is.

I'm assuming the first 5 are Reed, Bryson, Kuchar, Simpson, and Cantlay. Rickie or DJ?

cshea · Dec 11, 2019

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat said:
Okay, I have to know who the 6th is.

I'm assuming the first 5 are Reed, Bryson, Kuchar, Simpson, and Cantlay. Rickie or DJ?

Rickie. I don’t hate him but for some reason I always find myself rooting against him when he is in contention. It’s probably because I’m in the overrated camp with him and the barrage of his commercials is annoying. Cantlay is in the same boat. Don’t love him, don’t hate him. Probably just don’t know him well enough other than he’s slow and the fidgeting drives me nuts.

The other 4 can go screw.

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat · Dec 11, 2019

cshea said:
Rickie. I don’t hate him but for some reason I always find myself rooting against him when he is in contention. It’s probably because I’m in the overrated camp with him and the barrage of his commercials is annoying. Cantlay is in the same boat. Don’t love him, don’t hate him. Probably just don’t know him well enough other than he’s slow and the fidgeting drives me nuts.

The other 4 can go screw.

Thanks for clearing that up. I actually like Rickie, but I hate Simpson enough for two men.

cshea · Dec 11, 2019

Christ, Woodland has been useless

RedOctober3829 · Dec 11, 2019

This may be an actual competition this year. International team up in last 4 matches.

cshea · Dec 11, 2019

On queue, turkey vulture!

ezemerson · Dec 11, 2019

Im is playing lights out

cshea · Dec 11, 2019

Packed the suck from France in the bags to Australia

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