2020-2021 NBA Game Thread

Cesar Crespo

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Since 2011
Sullinger- got 4 years of better than slot production, then got out right in time before he fell apart
Melo= Bust
Young- didn't do much
Hunter- Bust
Rozier- key contributor, swapped out for a perennial All-Star
Zizic- traded as part of a package for an All-NBA player
Yabu- Didn't do much
TL- We'll see what happens, but looks like a real hit.

So 8 late picks, and he did about average, got one really good player (didn't re-sign because they could get a better player instead), traded one immediately, couple busts, couple deep bench guys, 1 solid player who they got value from then didn't overpay.
GW and PP. GW looks like a miss atm. PP looks ok.
 

Cesar Crespo

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you can't grade late 1sts after a year, if you did that you'd have missed most of the late 1st good players, and have thought you had steals who ended up being flash in the pan illusions.
Think it's safe to say PP isn't going to be a bust. GW could go either way I guess. I don't think he'll ever be good.

Because if he's playing 30 minutes a game putting up 14/12/4/3/1 on 70% shooting he's going to get paid.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Then why would we not pay him?
because of the cap. I mean, they could if they decide he's the 3rd piece and to build around the Jays and TL. Signing TL to big money is committing to that core.

edit: They could also try to lock him up this summer for 4/48-4/60.
 

HomeRunBaker

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As I posted the list above.....Ainge doesn’t pay the role players that he’s drafted once they are due their payday. This has been my issue with Ainge in that he hasn’t drafted an impact player would retaining unless it’s high lottery (debate on Rondo’s impact) with Tatum and Brown.

His drafting may be considered average but those GMs who draft “average” aren’t in their job long. Look at where today’s elite players were drafted.......Giannis, Mitchell, Gobert, Lillard, Harden, etc etc. Ainge hasn’t done so.
 

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As I posted the list above.....Ainge doesn’t pay the role players that he’s drafted once they are due their payday. This has been my issue with Ainge in that he hasn’t drafted an impact player would retaining unless it’s high lottery (debate on Rondo’s impact) with Tatum and Brown.

His drafting may be considered average but those GMs who draft “average” aren’t in their job long. Look at where today’s elite players were drafted.......Giannis, Mitchell, Gobert, Lillard, Harden, etc etc. Ainge hasn’t done so.
Don't forget Smart.
 

shoelace

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As I posted the list above.....Ainge doesn’t pay the role players that he’s drafted once they are due their payday. This has been my issue with Ainge in that he hasn’t drafted an impact player would retaining unless it’s high lottery (debate on Rondo’s impact) with Tatum and Brown.

His drafting may be considered average but those GMs who draft “average” aren’t in their job long. Look at where today’s elite players were drafted.......Giannis, Mitchell, Gobert, Lillard, Harden, etc etc. Ainge hasn’t done so.
Harden and Lillard were both lottery picks, Harden was picked 3rd overall, so again I'm not sure what you're arguing here. Kawhi would be a better example than either of those guys. Do you think Ainge is or should be on the hot seat because he doesn't draft super star players at the middle and end of the first round? Seems like a bizarre and arbitrary standard to hold a GM to, honestly.

I'd also point out that this random list of players, and the GMs who drafted them, have all won 0 championships at this point. The majority of championship teams in the last 20 years have been built around number one overall picks like LeBron, Duncan and Shaq, or were super teams created by highly drafted players in free agency. The only real exceptions to this are the Celtics, Raptors and the Pistons. If you want to argue that like Masai Ujiri and the Raptors have been better talent evaluators than Ainge with respect to drafting late in the draft, I don't think you'll get much pushback. I just don't see the connections being made here or what the actual problems are.
 

128

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High lottery pick. Lilliard was 6th and Harden was 3rd tho so who knows.
I was responding to the assertion that Ainge "hasn’t drafted an impact player would retaining unless it’s high lottery (debate on Rondo’s impact) with Tatum and Brown."

Maybe HRB doesn't consider Smart an impact player worth retaining.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I was responding to the assertion that Ainge "hasn’t drafted an impact player would retaining unless it’s high lottery (debate on Rondo’s impact) with Tatum and Brown."

Maybe HRB doesn't consider Smart an impact player worth retaining.
Smart may be worth retaining, but is he an impact player? He's a role player.

Guess it depends on one's definition of impact.
 

Cellar-Door

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As I posted the list above.....Ainge doesn’t pay the role players that he’s drafted once they are due their payday. This has been my issue with Ainge in that he hasn’t drafted an impact player would retaining unless it’s high lottery (debate on Rondo’s impact) with Tatum and Brown.

His drafting may be considered average but those GMs who draft “average” aren’t in their job long. Look at where today’s elite players were drafted.......Giannis, Mitchell, Gobert, Lillard, Harden, etc etc. Ainge hasn’t done so.
I mean... that's 2 high lottery picks, another lottery pick, maybe the biggest freak outlier in league history, and a good but arguably not great C whose team hasn't done anything in the playoffs, in part due to his limitations, and he is definitely not elite.

There are almost no elite players drafted outside the lottery.... Giannis, maybe Jimmy Butler?

You're criticizing Ainge for not winning the jackpot on a handful of scratchers, and that's dumb
 

Cesar Crespo

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I mean... that's 2 high lottery picks, another lottery pick, maybe the biggest freak outlier in league history, and a good but arguably not great C whose team hasn't done anything in the playoffs, in part due to his limitations, and he is definitely not elite.

There are almost no elite players drafted outside the lottery.... Giannis, maybe Jimmy Butler?

You're criticizing Ainge for not winning the jackpot on a handful of scratchers, and that's dumb
Some guy in Denver.

edit: And as mentioned before, Kawhi.
 

shoelace

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I was responding to the assertion that Ainge "hasn’t drafted an impact player would retaining unless it’s high lottery (debate on Rondo’s impact) with Tatum and Brown."

Maybe HRB doesn't consider Smart an impact player worth retaining.
My recollection is that HRB (despite resistance from other posters like nighthob) was adamant, for the same reasons outlined in these other posts, that Ainge would not re-sign Smart because he would get too much in RFA and that wasn't what Ainge tends to do (except for the times that he did). This is like the "max free agents won't sign with the Celtics" take, discounting the multiple max FAs that have signed here. I think because the Celtics are struggling and because Hayward, Horford and Kyrie have all left (for vastly different reasons), that there's a renewed confidence in the takes as proof that Boston or the front office sucks and that Brad is overrated and that no one wants to play here. Or something to do with agents and players having all the power and not wanting to play in Boston, that's my guess, but maybe there's a deeper logic that I'm not seeing.
 

pjheff

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because of the cap. I mean, they could if they decide he's the 3rd piece and to build around the Jays and TL. Signing TL to big money is committing to that core.

edit: They could also try to lock him up this summer for 4/48-4/60.
They have his Bird rights. They need not think he’s the third cornerstone to sign him to an extension.

As I posted the list above.....Ainge doesn’t pay the role players that he’s drafted once they are due their payday.
I guess it depends on how you define payday. He has extended role players like Allen, Bradley, and Smart for instance.
 

Cesar Crespo

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They have his Bird rights. They need not think he’s the third cornerstone to sign him to an extension.
If some GM comes along and offers him 4/100, they kinda do. It all depends how much another team offers. If he's playing 30+ minutes a night, it won't be 4/48.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I mean... that's 2 high lottery picks, another lottery pick, maybe the biggest freak outlier in league history, and a good but arguably not great C whose team hasn't done anything in the playoffs, in part due to his limitations, and he is definitely not elite.

There are almost no elite players drafted outside the lottery.... Giannis, maybe Jimmy Butler?

You're criticizing Ainge for not winning the jackpot on a handful of scratchers, and that's dumb
I didn’t include Smart as I’d consider his slot high lottery. I had also forgotten Harden went so high. This years All-Star team had like 7-8 guys drafted in the teens or lower.....I’m talking of 20 years of having Rondo as the only player drafted teens or below to even be considered an All-Star and he wasn’t even a guy we kept around to build. 20.....Years!!
 

pjheff

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If some GM comes along and offers him 4/100, they kinda do. It all depends how much another team offers. If he's playing 30+ minutes a night, it won't be 4/48.
Do you expect him to command that type of offer? I don’t foresee a situation in which the C’s cannot afford to match his market value, unless they think they can clear cap space for a max free agent signing.
 

Cellar-Door

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I didn’t include Smart as I’d consider his slot high lottery. I had also forgotten Harden went so high. This years All-Star team had like 7-8 guys drafted in the teens or lower.....I’m talking of 20 years of having Rondo as the only player drafted teens or below to even be considered an All-Star and he wasn’t even a guy we kept around to build. 20.....Years!!
How many teams have home-drafted late first all-stars in the last 20 years.. and how many picks did it take them.

The problem is you're looking at a very small percentage, and the Celtics have had less shots than most, and have traded more late 1sts for a reason... they have been contenders twice in that run and made picks and trades to maximize short term windows rather than rolling the dice on raw guys.

Do you expect him to command that type of offer? I don’t foresee a situation in which the C’s cannot afford to match his market value, unless they think they can clear cap space for a max free agent signing.
Yeah, that's the thing... if TL gets a 4/100 offer you smile and wave him goodbye, but the more likely scenarios are that he gets deals that you match and then if you have tax issues down the line you can trade him. Re-signing guys to bad deals isn't a good thing, and letting a guy walk because the deal is bad is good for the team. I don't think it's a knock on Ainge if he lets good but not great picks walk away rather than overpay them.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Do you expect him to command that type of offer? I don’t foresee a situation in which the C’s cannot afford to match his market value, unless they think they can clear cap space for a max free agent signing.
No. I think he may get 4/80. If he's a 25 minute guy, is 4/80 really worth it? I dunno. We all want him at 4/48-4/60, but if he's the RWill we want him to be... he isn't coming at that price tag.

Time Lord is the exact type of player to get overpaid on his 2nd contract and put up big numbers on a crappy team. Maybe most teams have smartened up by now.
 

Cesar Crespo

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How many teams have home-drafted late first all-stars in the last 20 years.. and how many picks did it take them.

The problem is you're looking at a very small percentage, and the Celtics have had less shots than most, and have traded more late 1sts for a reason... they have been contenders twice in that run and made picks and trades to maximize short term windows rather than rolling the dice on raw guys.


Yeah, that's the thing... if TL gets a 4/100 offer you smile and wave him goodbye, but the more likely scenarios are that he gets deals that you match and then if you have tax issues down the line you can trade him. Re-signing guys to bad deals isn't a good thing, and letting a guy walk because the deal is bad is good for the team. I don't think it's a knock on Ainge if he lets good but not great picks walk away rather than overpay them.
While not very likely, there is a world in which Timelord ends up being worth 4/100. All those worlds involve him playing 30 minutes a night and being above average on offense and a monster on defense.

There are many more worlds where he's getting Capela and Steven Adams money for 4 years.

Where do you draw the line? I guess it depends on how good TL is.

I think the days of offering a cheap extension are probably over.
 

pjheff

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Yeah, that's the thing... if TL gets a 4/100 offer you smile and wave him goodbye, but the more likely scenarios are that he gets deals that you match and then if you have tax issues down the line you can trade him. Re-signing guys to bad deals isn't a good thing, and letting a guy walk because the deal is bad is good for the team. I don't think it's a knock on Ainge if he lets good but not great picks walk away rather than overpay them.
If recent memory is any guide, the more likely scenario is that Ainge signs him to the next iteration of Bradley and Smart’s deals — like 4 years / $64 million — and everyone here complains about an overpay only to watch him outperform the contract.

No. I think he may get 4/80. If he's a 25 minute guy, is 4/80 really worth it? I dunno. We all want him at 4/48-4/60, but if he's the RWill we want him to be... he isn't coming at that price tag.
He’s averaging 7.8 ppg and 6.4 rpg in 17.1 mpg.
 

Cesar Crespo

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If recent memory is any guide, the more likely scenario is that Ainge signs him to the next iteration of Bradley and Smart’s deals — like 4 years / $64 million — and everyone here complains about an overpay only to watch him outperform the contract.



He’s averaging 7.8 ppg and 6.4 rpg in 17.1 mpg.
Yeah. if that's what he's averaging after next season and show's little growth over this year, what do you pay him? And is he really worth paying?

This is under the assumption he continues to improve and starts to play more minutes next season. All of us want him to be a 25-30 minute player. If he becomes that, he is not going to be cheap.

I'm basically saying I think he's going to improve to the point where the C's will actually have to think about matching. Something like 4/80. If he's still playing 17.1 mpg next year, yeah. Keeping him won't be a problem at all. If he's averaging 30 minutes a game, the price tag will be an issue.
 

pjheff

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Yeah. if that's what he's averaging after next season and show's little growth over this year, what do you pay him? And is he really worth paying?
This feels like a Catch-22. We’re afraid that he won’t be good enough to be worth paying, but we fear that he will be good enough to be worth paying.
 

Cesar Crespo

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This feels like a Catch-22. We’re afraid that he won’t be good enough to be worth paying, but we fear that he will be good enough to be worth paying.
Not really. No one is afraid of TL being good. The thing is, if he is good, other teams will offer him more money than if he were bad. I didn't think it would be so controversial to point out the C's might let TL walk next year if he actually ends up being pretty good and some other team wants to pay him. At some dollar figure, the C's would decide not to match. TL at 20 million vs TL a 12 million changes a lot.
 

pjheff

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I didn't think it would be so controversial to point out the C's might let TL walk next year if he actually ends up being pretty good and some other team wants to pay him. At some dollar figure, the C's would decide not to match. TL at 20 million vs TL a 12 million changes a lot.
It depends on how good TL is. There’s just no reason at this point to think that the C’s won’t be in position to match a market deal (unless they think that by letting him walk they can free up a max salary slot).
 

Devizier

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One thing I’d be curious to see is how players who have quarantined for COVID are performing relative to their previous season (assuming they did not quarantine then). I recognize that the sample is pretty small.
 

Kliq

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Nets didn't want the smoke at all against Utah. KD, Kyrie and Harden all sit and they lose by 30.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Punishing myself tonight by watching the Sacramento Kings vs the depleted version of the Golden State Warriors. The pace says they should score 280, the efficiency of these players suggest 195. Let’s see what happens.

Edit: Witnessed Wiseman catch a swing pass at top of key without anyone within 10 feet. Go right up and shoot the 3 right? Wrong. Accept pass, slide both feet to the right twice (that’s 4 steps for those counting) without a dribble and knock down the 3......as the astonished official waves it off for the traveling violation. This game would make a good drinking game.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Nico Mannion trying to check D.Fox tonight is must-watch tv. I’m sorry for you poor souls who are missing out on this entertainment. This game is so awful that ESPN simply gave up even trying.

9C9CB1A7-3CB2-4A3C-A4AA-23CDDA48FE18.png
 

jon abbey

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I can't be the only one who finds the Miami Heat/explosion in a nail polish factory experience literally painful to watch. I was kind of psyched for their game tonight, but I turned it off after a quarter, because ow.
 

TrapperAB

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I can't be the only one who finds the Miami Heat/explosion in a nail polish factory experience literally painful to watch. I was kind of psyched for their game tonight, but I turned it off after a quarter, because ow.
Agree 100% — ended up listening more than watching. Perfect description (“explosion in a nail polish factory”). Even Crockett and Tubbs would be offended.
 

terrynever

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I can't be the only one who finds the Miami Heat/explosion in a nail polish factory experience literally painful to watch. I was kind of psyched for their game tonight, but I turned it off after a quarter, because ow.
I thought those uniforms looked like the tie-dye t-shirt fad that hippies favored in the 1960s. If you did some acid before watching last night’s game, the Heat would have looked real nice.
 

jon abbey

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The uniforms are bad enough, the pink on the floor should not be allowed.
 

jon abbey

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Baseball teams wear pink for breast cancer awareness.
They do this for one weekend each season, it is also not especially eye-friendly but they don't also paint ten feet around each base and half the outfield pink. Also that is for a good cause, this is to try to sell ugly-ass uniforms.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Tank battle extraordinaire!

Rockets led Wolves 101-85 on a DJ Augustin jumper with 7:30 left.

Wolves closed game on a 22-0 run. 107-101 Wolves.
 

JCizzle

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GSW doing a nice Celtics impression through the first half against the Hawks. 64 points and counting with two minutes to go.
 

Kliq

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All I heard at-nauseum during the two games tonight on ESPN was how James Harden is the MVP favorite now. I'm sorry, you can't be the MVP when you selfishly shot your way out of town and turned your original team into the worst team in the league IN THE SAME SEASON. It's ridiculous and all these people, like Richard Jefferson and Mark Jackson come across like blithering idiots for suggesting it.
 

Apisith

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I mean, you could argue that we've been a tire fire all season because we lost him. Everything else was pretty much the same, same core guys, even some new guys who are good. But we've sucked so badly because Harden was (and is) extremely valuable. The Nets are something like 16-2 over the last 18 games, and he has been putting up ridiculous numbers all without KD. Winning counts a lot. We've sucked, lost a lot, Nets are winning a lot, Harden's putting up numbers. Of course I'm a fanboy :p but he should be in the conversation for sure.
 

lovegtm

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All I heard at-nauseum during the two games tonight on ESPN was how James Harden is the MVP favorite now. I'm sorry, you can't be the MVP when you selfishly shot your way out of town and turned your original team into the worst team in the league IN THE SAME SEASON. It's ridiculous and all these people, like Richard Jefferson and Mark Jackson come across like blithering idiots for suggesting it.
This seems like a total non sequitur.