Texans job could be open after today’s mess and that wouldn’t be a terrible landing spot if he brings Nick C. with him.
2020 Coaching Carousel: #AnyoneButMcDaniels
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
Yup, stay as far away as you can from this cesspool, Josh.
View: https://twitter.com/DustinFox37/status/1216510921947914240?s=19
https://www.cantonrep.com/sports/20200112/steve-doerschuk-josh-mcdaniels-wouldnrsquot-back-down-browns-owner-backed-away
View: https://twitter.com/DustinFox37/status/1216510921947914240?s=19
So le me see if I have this right. The Browns interview Josh and he says he wants to make some changes to the organization to improve football operations. Mostly likely to mirror the way things are run at Gillette for the last 20 years during a period of historic success. And the Browns say, no thanks, we think our way is working just. Huh...
I'll give the Browns credit. Most football teams prefer to fail in ways that are conventional and conservative to avoid the public appearance of being embarassed. The Browns are happy to fail in ways that are new and revolutionary on a regular basis, and I think we're all better for having access to this type of failure.
The Cleveland Browns - Failure is All of the Options, Even the Run-Pass Option.
The Cleveland Browns - Failure is All of the Options, Even the Run-Pass Option.
Are the Browns wrong? McDaniels as a head coach is most known for drafting Tim Tebow in the first round. He wasn't good in Denver and he was capricious at best in last year's dance with the Colts. The NFL is full of guys who are great coordinators but lousy head coaches (Wade Phillips, Norv Turner, etc.). Less so guys like BB who were great HCs after being fired elsewhere. And BB's track record is not exactly great in grooming good HCs.
I have no idea if the Browns are ahead of the curve here, or are morons. But good for them for sticking to their plan and giving it a shot.
I have no idea if the Browns are ahead of the curve here, or are morons. But good for them for sticking to their plan and giving it a shot.
The part about consulting the owner about game plans by Friday? (assuming the tweet above is accurate) I dont think that qualifies as being ahead of the curve. The only response to that is the one Dr. Westfall gave to Dr. Gideon.
I do not know whether Josh McD will be a good head coach or not. I also do think it is possible that getting feedback (not veto, but just hearing perspective) from an analytics team could be helpful for an NFL team. But I am pretty sure that having Haslem review the game plan is not a helpful step for any head coach.
Love the St. Elsewhere reference, tho I don't remember the specifics.
On further thought, that makes no sense, especially since coaches develop game plan by Tues night and players get them on Weds, and practice to them Weds-Thurs. What can happen Friday to change that?
What better time for a meddlesome owner to meddle than after things are set up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Elsewhere#cite_note-10
What a fantastic 2020 season thread title.
In startup parlance, when a founder reaches a crossroads where the organization has outgrown his particular skillset and calling and needs different leadership to continue growing, and investors recommend that he give up operational control (but not equity - he can still enjoy the financial gains), it's called a "Rich vs King" decision. i.e., which would you rather be: Rich, or King? Pick one.
Jimmy Haslam III (let's remember that he inherited the team from daddy) has chosen "tinpot dictator" for 20 years, despite being repeatedly presented with the choice again and again and also the consequences of his wrong choice. Romeo Crennel and Butch Davis brought him all the way to mediocrity, but lately it seems even that's too much to aspire to. Best seasons since the Browns' re-founding in 1999:
2002: +24 point differential, 9-7, lost wild card (Davis)
2007: +20 point differential, 10-6, missed playoffs (Crennel)
2018: -33 point differential, 7-8-1, missed playoffs but was in contention the final week, theoretically! (Hue Jackson, Greggggg Williams)
That's right, they've had two positive-PD seasons in 21 years.
Hey the show aired 1982-1988, what could possibly be hipper than a 35-year-old reference to an obscure show that almost nobody here is going to get?
Yep, this is dumb. Involve analytics Monday / Tuesday. Friday / Saturday is too late. "Uh, guys, I know we practiced getting matchups with our tight end on the linebacker all week, but analytics says we should throw to our #2 WR instead so never mind what we practiced."
And Haslam never has to make this choice. He gets Rich no matter what, even if he is a terrible King. Make these owners suffer in the pocketbook for being crappy year after year and you might see the lousy owners make smarter decisions.
Hey now....those years are also known as "the prime of my life." And the show was far more "groundbreaking" than "obscure." (Youd know that if you were old.)
But to your point....the Rich/King decision is spot on with Haslam. He came from outside football, but with so many teams run -- or soon to be run -- by children of significant owners, it's probably applicable to the likes of Mike Brown, too.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogKqQc4q6y0Hey now....those years are also known as "the prime of my life." And the show was far more "groundbreaking" than "obscure." (Youd know that if you were old.)
But to your point....the Rich/King decision is spot on with Haslam. He came from outside football, but with so many teams run -- or soon to be run -- by children of significant owners, it's probably applicable to the likes of Mike Brown, too.
And yeah, something tells me support for a strong estate tax is rising in the state of Ohio.
Good for the Browns for sticking to their shitty plan.
Owner reviewing game plans and analytics guys with game day headsets. Sweet Jesus.
Owner reviewing game plans and analytics guys with game day headsets. Sweet Jesus.
Better or worse than an owner who's a meth-addled public embarrassment? You be the judge!
Either way, McDaniels dodged yet another bullet, while remaining better paid than some head coaches anyway. I'm of the opinion that we're still a while from being able to conclude that Frank Reich is in an environment where he can be long-term successful. Everyone thought he was the New Hotness when his team was 5-2, but then he lost close ones to Pittsburgh and Miami and kinda stumbled to a 2-7 finish and 7-9 overall.
Still cracks me up that in 2016, the Patriots may well have had the 3 best QBs in the division on their roster. Maybe Tannehill is actually better than Brissett, but I don't think it's a slam dunk either way.
Either way, McDaniels dodged yet another bullet, while remaining better paid than some head coaches anyway. I'm of the opinion that we're still a while from being able to conclude that Frank Reich is in an environment where he can be long-term successful. Everyone thought he was the New Hotness when his team was 5-2, but then he lost close ones to Pittsburgh and Miami and kinda stumbled to a 2-7 finish and 7-9 overall.
Still cracks me up that in 2016, the Patriots may well have had the 3 best QBs in the division on their roster. Maybe Tannehill is actually better than Brissett, but I don't think it's a slam dunk either way.
It makes a lot of sense for McDaniels to wait until he gets a job on his terms. He's young, has time, has a steady gig, will have other offers, but the next HC job might be his last chance to succeed in that role. The Browns job is also tough because you have two relatively stable franchises in the division....plus the Bengals and they are getting Burrow. I'd put the over/under on playoff wins by the Browns over the next five years at about 1.5.
I wonder if he would have taken the NYG job or the Dallas job.
I wonder if he would have taken the NYG job or the Dallas job.
Giants maybe. Dallas I bet his issues (with Jerry Jones) would have been the same as here, just on a bigger stage. If you have non-football people controlling football decisions, it leads only to misery and failure.
I think it's possible that some team will figure out a way to essentially head coach by committee in a way that leads to success. (Though, like everything in the NFL, it won't make a bit of difference without a very good QB.) Might the Browns be on to it? We'll see.
I guess for present purposes, the bottom line is that this is 180 degrees from what the greatest coach of all time seems to have believed is the right way to run the railroad for the last 25 years. That doesn't mean it's not right for 2020 forward. But it does mean that it is a very poor fit for a guy who has mentored under that coach for many years.
View: https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1216788319692034049
Getting more obvious by the day why Josh wasn't the right fit...
Getting more obvious by the day why Josh wasn't the right fit...
I disagree with the bolded part, at least for someone as financially secure as McD. But I agree the decision to pass on Indy was curious, unless you think he had an inking that Luck would retire young (and I can’t imagine he did).
Per Schefter, Matt Rhule has plucked Joe Brady out of LSU and will be going to the Panthers.
View: https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1217213620125302786
View: https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1217213620125302786
He didn’t work for the Vikings?
Edit: Or is the joke that Schefter apparently fucked up that tweet?
Randy Lerner was the 2nd generation Browns owner who hired Butch Davis and Romeo Crennel. When it comes to the Browns, Haslam is a self-made mess.
Dude was a head coach for ten years, and he immediately takes a job as OC within his old division? He probably would have had a head coaching opportunity at some point in the next year, right?
To be clear, I didn't think he was a good coach, but figured he would get another opportunity soon.
To be clear, I didn't think he was a good coach, but figured he would get another opportunity soon.
I feel like he gets points around the league for putting up with Jerry. I don't know that his record, and general absence from the playoffs are enough to have gotten him another head coaching gig. It's not like he got 2 years to show his value - he had an extended run. Now if he sets the world on fire with the Giants and they become an offensive powerhouse or something, then I think he gets another shot.
He is #54 on the all time wins list. Think about that. Think about how many coaches there have been in NFL history.
Yes, that is impressive. But in my mind, that's a function of being able to withstand Jerry's crap more so than wizardry on his part. I feel like if you take any of the top 10 coaches in the NFL (your picks, not mine), hand them the Cowboys talent, they'd have a better record - and more playoff games. With the offensive lines they've had, the skill positions they've had, the QB talent they've had (all at the same time for the most part), as a team they have under performed to my liking. I can't think how many times I saw them fall just short, and thought to myself "feels like they've turned a corner - they are going to be tough next year". And the next year, and the next year...
Now, I'm not blaming him for all of that, because if one could take the same vacuum I'm offering these top 10 coaches and hand it to Jason (without Jerry over his shoulder), maybe he does better as well. But I just don't see it.
Look I don’t think he’s a great coach either. He may not even be an average coach. But it’s hard to win more games than you lose as a 10 year coach in the NFL. It’s fairly rare company.
That's my point though, those are probably underwhelming counting stats for a team with the talent they've had.
Of the 10:
1 partial season of 5-3
4 seasons of 8-8.
4 winning seasons (12-4, 13-3, 9-7, 10-6)
1 debacle of a 4-12 season (he probably should have been fired after that season)
Of those 10 seasons, there are only 2 that you can hang your hat on. And while it hasn't been the AFC East, there have been no juggernauts in the NFC East during that time either. One could reasonably argue he left very winnable games on the table in every single year beyond the 12-4 & 13-3 seasons. Games like the last 2 season ending Dolphin games for BB and the Patriots. Garrett's teams always find a way to lose a crucial game (give them a pass for the Dez Bryant non-catch game - they wuz robbed).
One could argue that after the 3rd consecutive 8-8 season to start his head coaching career he would have been fired from a lot of teams.
So his win totals IMO are below expectation for the talent the team had, and the only reason he accumulated that many was the fact that the moron owner didn't replace him. I think across the league, for these same reasons, there is a sense that the Cowboys under Garrett under performed. He wasn't getting another head coaching job, without showing something as an OC first.
Last edited:
Browns are hiring former Dolphins offensive coordinator Chad O'Shea as receivers coach and passing game coordinator after O'Shea visited Friday.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001097523/article/conference-title-games-feature-desirable-coaching-candidates
Thought he might come back to New England with the receivers coach spot open.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001097523/article/conference-title-games-feature-desirable-coaching-candidates
Thought he might come back to New England with the receivers coach spot open.