2020 Game Goat Thread: WCG vs Titans

[tims4wins]

I was more upset last Sunday afternoon than I am this morning. I think that speaks volumes - the realization that they just weren't going to be good enough this year.

Contrary to many others here, I hope that Josh stays for another year or two. Bring Brady back, get healthy, maybe Gronk comes back for one last ride, and try to piece together another 11-12 win season where you have a chance for a bye and a home playoff game.

 

[lexrageorge]

Losing the field position battle wasn't Belichick's fault; the players have to execute, and they didn't in any of the 3 phases of the game. Or at least not well enough. Pass defense was good, but the run D was awful, and ditto the punt teams. When all 3 squads are coming up short, it becomes very difficult to make the right coaching decision when faced with a 4th-and-short late in the game. The first time it didn't work because Bailey kicked too deep and the D couldn't get off the field when it mattered (3 first down conversions on that 8 minute drive, including 2 on 3rd down). The second time the punt team did the job, but the D gave up 2 first downs, including the inexcusable 3rd-and-long with Tannehill at QB.

Just for the record, here are the third down distances the Pats offense had during the game:

10 (converted)
3 (failed - FG)
2 (White run converted, setting up TD)
2 (converted)
1 (failed - FG)
6 (converted)
1 (failed - FG)
10 (failed, end of half)

2nd half:
10 (conversion wiped out by penalty)
15 (failed, punt)
2 (converted)
3 (failed, punt)
4 (failed, punt)


Up until last night, the defense and punt teams had been the team's strength. Yes, the defense wasn't as good as it looked in the team's first 8 games. But it was good enough to contain Dallas and KC this season, and probably would have been OK against either Houston or Miami had the offense been competent. So calling the game plan or even the punt decisions "cowardly" misses some key context that actually matters when it comes to analyzing the coaching decisions.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

I have trouble faulting a defense that allowed only 14 points, zero in a second half in which they came up with some key stops and even a turnover. Yes, they were bad vs the run, but the overall damage from that was pretty limited. It just looks bad because the offense was terrible when even merely 'bad' would have been enough for a win.

 

[lexrageorge]

I have trouble faulting a defense that allowed only 14 points, zero in a second half in which they came up with some key stops and even a turnover. Yes, they were bad vs the run, but the overall damage from that was pretty limited. It just looks bad because the offense was terrible when even merely 'bad' would have been enough for a win.

Situational defense matters, and it is a skill. Letting Tannehill convert a 3rd-and-long on the Titans penultimate drive, which was one of multiple 3rd down conversions the D allowed during those final 2 drives, was not a good look. Henry had room to run all game. It was not a great performance by any means.

 

[Super Nomario]

Situational defense matters, and it is a skill. Letting Tannehill convert a 3rd-and-long on the Titans penultimate drive, which was one of multiple 3rd down conversions the D allowed during those final 2 drives, was not a good look. Henry had room to run all game. It was not a great performance by any means.

Really the issue last night was situational football all around. O failed in the red zone and in short yardage. D had the just abysmal two-minute drill at the end of the half and let the Titans kill the clock late. Bailey was terrible in pin-deep situations. Killed on field position all night, especially in the second half. Biggest play of the game wiped out by a stupid penalty from the team's highest-paid lineman. Key drop on the final drive by the team's best WR. Dumb conservative decisions from the coaching staff.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Situational defense matters, and it is a skill. Letting Tannehill convert a 3rd-and-long on the Titans penultimate drive, which was one of multiple 3rd down conversions the D allowed during those final 2 drives, was not a good look. Henry had room to run all game. It was not a great performance by any means.

I agree it matters and that the defense wasn't perfect. But I just keep coming back to that fact that one decent second half offensive drive wins this.

 

[j44thor]

Situational defense matters, and it is a skill. Letting Tannehill convert a 3rd-and-long on the Titans penultimate drive, which was one of multiple 3rd down conversions the D allowed during those final 2 drives, was not a good look. Henry had room to run all game. It was not a great performance by any means.

That last 3rd and 8 that killed them it looked like they were playing it as a 3rd and 18 with both S 20 yards deep.

Coaching was bad this game as it was last week as well.

 

[Mueller's Twin Grannies]

McDaniels definitely belongs on this list. I've never liked him as an OC and consider his one-play playbook (Brady to Moss) in the 2007 Super Bowl as one of the reasons they didn't go 19-0 that year. Beyond that, he gets too cute a lot of the time with his trick plays.

 

[Humphrey]

I understand people are grieving and whatever, but he's played half a season. Maybe his fate isn't quite sealed.

Not even half a season. Plenty he needs to work on, that's for sure.
What happened to Dorsett - practically invisible down the stretch this year, supposedly had turned a corner in his career.
I go for it on my own 40 late in the game when you are playing a team that can run the ball so well. I don't think you end up in a worse spot than you ended up in.
The NFL will most likely change that rule loophole- after the first delay of game penalty the clock should stop. Period. In order to save 50 seconds the Pats would have had to burn a time out.

 

[Ale Xander]

Defense (broke twice)
Offense (couldn't get more than 1 TD)
Special Teams
Coaching

In sum, all 4 phases.

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

Contrary to many others here, I hope that Josh stays for another year or two. Bring Brady back, get healthy, maybe Gronk comes back for one last ride, and try to piece together another 11-12 win season where you have a chance for a bye and a home playoff game.

I agree with this...McDaniels enjoys the strongest possible endorsements from Brady and Belichick and Scarnecchia and, with all due respect to us, I suspect those three opinions are more informed and more significant than our humble community, other fans, and media chatter.

I was struck watching the various NFL Films Pats porn following the last Super Bowl just how much BB relied on Josh for design and Execution of the offense. Hey, you gotta take the bad times with the good.

That said, much as I admire his special teams work, I’d like to see somebody else coaching the wide receivers than Joe Judge next year. The talent is what the talent is, and JE11’s lingering injuries didn’t help, but Harry didn’t improve enough, Dorsett failed to build on his encouraging 2018, and Sanu wasn’t integrated well.

I’ll happily take BB and Josh and Scar for as long as they remain engaged and challenged. TB12 is a little different because deterioration of physical skill, eventually, is a real thing...but I also have a deeper emotional appreciation of him and don’t mind having him around a year longer than may wind up being prudent.

All that said, Josh still hits my goat list for the game as what unfolded after first and goal from the one is on the plays chosen more than it should’ve been. He can join Edelman and Bailey there. I can’t stick goat horns on a defense that only gave up 14 points and none in the second half.

 

[Humphrey]

In terms of the season as a whole, Gordon's gotta be in there somewhere. Or management/ownership for counting on him. Or both.

 

[BaseballJones]

I was more upset last Sunday afternoon than I am this morning. I think that speaks volumes - the realization that they just weren't going to be good enough this year.

Contrary to many others here, I hope that Josh stays for another year or two. Bring Brady back, get healthy, maybe Gronk comes back for one last ride, and try to piece together another 11-12 win season where you have a chance for a bye and a home playoff game.

I’m right there with you. I think they can put that together next year. Don’t think Gronkowski is coming back but imagine if he did.

 

[BaseballJones]

Tannehill completed three passes of consequence:

- the third and ten TD when Brooks came in for Chung

- the 22 yard screen pass to Henry leading to their second TD

- the third down conversion on their last drive, also targeting. Brooks

Meanwhile Brady had at least four passes that easily could have been complete but weren’t...

- the bomb down the left sideline to Sanu which was a perfectly thrown pass but the Titans defender made a great play

- the pass to Harry on the sideline that should have been a clear DPI but wasn’t called

- the pass to Edelman for a first down that he dropped

- the pass to Watson (who otherwise played well) that he let skip through his arms that nearly resulted in a pick six by Logan

 

[Ale Xander]

Tannehill completed three passes of consequence:

- the third and ten TD when Brooks came in for Chung

- the 22 yard screen pass to Henry leading to their second TD

- the third down conversion on their last drive, also targeting. Brooks

Meanwhile Brady had at least four passes that easily could have been complete but weren’t...

- the bomb down the left sideline to Sanu which was a perfectly thrown pass but the Titans defender made a great play

- the pass to Harry on the sideline that should have been a clear DPI but wasn’t called

- the pass to Edelman for a first down that he dropped

- the pass to Watson (who otherwise played well) that he let skip through his arms that nearly resulted in a pick six by Logan

So basically the goat was Chung's health? Hard pill to swallow (pun intended), but seems true.

 

[Mugsy’s Walk-Off Bunt]

Defense (broke twice)
Offense (couldn't get more than 1 TD)
Special Teams
Coaching

In sum, all 4 phases.

COMPLEMENTARY FOOTBALL!

 

[j44thor]

So basically the goat was Chung's health? Hard pill to swallow (pun intended), but seems true.

I don't think Chung fares any better on those plays. His coverage skills have been average at best this season and the defensive play calls had Brooks 1-1 vs the much bigger Firkser on both plays. The defensive calls on those plays were the GOAT more than Chung's ankle.

 

[BaseballJones]

So basically the goat was Chung's health? Hard pill to swallow (pun intended), but seems true.

Well it turned out to be a huge loss. Though I will say that I didn’t think he was great in coverage the last half of the season so maybe he gets beat on those two plays as well.

 

[BaseballJones]

Ten’s Second half possessions...

5 plays 16 yards, punt
4 plays 14 yards, punt
5 plays 12 yards, INT
10 plays 39 yards, punt
7 plays 28 yards, punt

I mean I know the D gave up the key third down on that last drive but you really can’t ask them to do much more than this.

31 plays, 109 yards (3.5 yds per play), zero points.

The D absolutely did a great job in the second half giving the offense a chance.

 

[8slim]

Ten’s Second half possessions...

5 plays 16 yards, punt
4 plays 14 yards, punt
5 plays 12 yards, INT
10 plays 39 yards, punt
7 plays 28 yards, punt

I mean I know the D gave up the key third down on that last drive but you really can’t ask them to do much more than this.

31 plays, 109 yards (3.5 yds per play), zero points.

The D absolutely did a great job in the second half giving the offense a chance.

Agree completely. The O needed to get a FG in 30 minutes of play and didn’t come remotely close. The L is on them.

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

Meanwhile Brady had at least four passes that easily could have been complete but weren’t...

- the bomb down the left sideline to Sanu which was a perfectly thrown pass but the Titans defender made a great play

- the pass to Harry on the sideline that should have been a clear DPI but wasn’t called

- the pass to Edelman for a first down that he dropped

- the pass to Watson (who otherwise played well) that he let skip through his arms that nearly resulted in a pick six by Logan

Also the 30-something yarder to Watson off a great Brady scramble that was nullified by Mason’s needless downfield penalty.

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

 

[johnmd20]

Harry 2/8
Sanu 1/4
Dorsett 1/4

4/16 for 38 yards

Man, looking at those stats is actually painful. Sanu actually had 5 targets and Harry 7 but the point remains.

38 yards on SIXTEEN targets. That's a nightmare. Sanu fucking sucked so badly in New England. I guess he was like Juju in Pitt last year. When the focus is on AB or Julio, some guys can prosper. When you don't have a main guy taking up all the focus, you suck.

Sanu sucks. Losing AB in Week 2 cost this team. He's an idiot and it had an impact.

 

[lexrageorge]

Ten’s Second half possessions...

5 plays 16 yards, punt
4 plays 14 yards, punt
5 plays 12 yards, INT
10 plays 39 yards, punt
7 plays 28 yards, punt

I mean I know the D gave up the key third down on that last drive but you really can’t ask them to do much more than this.

31 plays, 109 yards (3.5 yds per play), zero points.

The D absolutely did a great job in the second half giving the offense a chance.

I'll respectfully disagree on the defense's performance in the 2nd half. Situational defense matters.

Ignoring penalties, Tannehill was 3-8 with a sack and an interception for only 29 yards. But two of those completions went for first down, and one was on a third and long. But the key fact is that Tennessee only called 11 pass plays (one was nullified by an offensive penalty, one resulted in a DPI, and one resulted in a fumble that was recovered) in the 2nd half.

The reason why the Titans only called for 11 passes all 2nd half is that Derrick Henry ran 20 times and Dion Lewis ran it once for a total of 81 yards. The 3.9 ypc doesn't seem horrible. However, 3 of those runs took place after Henry had effectively iced the game with an 11 yard run for a first down on the Titans final drive, after which point Henry's job was simply to run to the line and not fumble. Take out those 3 runs, and Henry himself ran 17 times for 75 yards, or 4.4 ypc, with 3 of those runs going for first downs. The Titans had the ball for over 20 minutes in the 2nd half despite punting 4 times.

 

[jodyreeddudley78]

Didn’t Edelman make some wise crack at Welker after the 28-3 game about him actually catching the ball vs Welker dropping it?

Edelman led the league in drops this year and it bit them again.

my biggest Bitch is that Chung goes out and then next play in the red zone you don’t give your backup any safety help and run a huge blitz? Of course they were going to target Brooks 1 on 1. Awful.

This is unfair. Yes, Edelman led the league in drops, but he was fourth in targets. The more targets, the more drops you're going to have. He was playing injured most of the year, and was the team's main (only?) true offensive threat. Citing dropped passes alone isn't fair. He was 26th (not amazing, but still respectable) in Catch Rate in the NFL and was the focal point of the offense. Yes, he had a bad drop, but the whole offense was generally bad against what was probably the 2nd or 3rd worst defense left in the playoffs.

 

[BaseballJones]

I'll respectfully disagree on the defense's performance in the 2nd half. Situational defense matters.

Ignoring penalties, Tannehill was 3-8 with a sack and an interception for only 29 yards. But two of those completions went for first down, and one was on a third and long. But the key fact is that Tennessee only called 11 pass plays (one was nullified by an offensive penalty, one resulted in a DPI, and one resulted in a fumble that was recovered) in the 2nd half.

The reason why the Titans only called for 11 passes all 2nd half is that Derrick Henry ran 20 times and Dion Lewis ran it once for a total of 81 yards. The 3.9 ypc doesn't seem horrible. However, 3 of those runs took place after Henry had effectively iced the game with an 11 yard run for a first down on the Titans final drive, after which point Henry's job was simply to run to the line and not fumble. Take out those 3 runs, and Henry himself ran 17 times for 75 yards, or 4.4 ypc, with 3 of those runs going for first downs. The Titans had the ball for over 20 minutes in the 2nd half despite punting 4 times.

I get that. But the Pats' offense was handed the ball time and time again after Tennessee failed to score, and the Pats' offense did nothing with it.

New England's second half possessions:
- 6 plays, 15 yards, punt
- 6 plays, 32 yards, punt
- 4 plays, 12 yards, punt (this was after getting great field position following the Harmon pick)
- 4 plays, 26 yards, punt
- 1 play, PICK SIX

I mean, that's INEPT offense. 21 plays, 85 yards of offense in the second half.

I do agree that field position in this game was enormous, but only in certain situations. Here's the data:

NE's starting field position: 25, 25, 24, T47, 25, 13, 7, 41, 11, 1 (avg: NE 22.5)
Ten's starting field position: 25, 15, 10, 25, 27, 43, 20, 20, 13 (avg: Ten 22.0)

So NE had *better* average starting field position than Ten did. Yes, largely based on two very favorable field position situations, but in those, the Pats only scored ONE FIELD GOAL. But yes in the second half, they really didn't have a lot to work with, but credit to Tennessee's punter who KILLED the Pats last night (and conversely, Bailey kind of killed the Pats last night too).

 

[Super Nomario]

EPA backs up my assertion that the Patriots D wasn't great last night: -3.83, making it their fourth-worst game defensively on the season. All their nine worst defensive performances by EPA came Week 9 or later; all their seven best defensive performances came Week 8 or earlier. -3.83 is like a C/C-minus game. That seems about right.

NE's starting field position: 25, 25, 24, T47, 25, 13, 7, 41, 11, 1 (avg: NE 22.5)
Ten's starting field position: 25, 15, 10, 25, 27, 43, 20, 20, 13 (avg: Ten 22.0)

So NE had *better* average starting field position than Ten did. Yes, largely based on two very favorable field position situations, but in those, the Pats only scored ONE FIELD GOAL. But yes in the second half, they really didn't have a lot to work with, but credit to Tennessee's punter who KILLED the Pats last night (and conversely, Bailey kind of killed the Pats last night too).

Both these starting field position figures are terrible; either would rank by far the worst figure in the league for the full season (Jacksonville's O started at their own 25.9 on average, which was the worst in the NFL). Combine that with the small number of possessions for both teams and it's a game where the final score makes both defenses look better than they really played and both offenses worse. That's not to say the Patriots offense was good last night; it was not. But there's blame to go around (and as you note, Bailey/ST a big factor, too).

 

[BaseballJones]

EPA = expected points allowed, I presume?

The defense only game up 14 points last night. Only two scoring drives. That's it. Tennessee had 272 yards of total offense. 150 of them came on those two possessions. Other than those two possessions, the Titans mustered just 122 total yards in 7 possessions (17.4 yards per possession). The Titans averaged 4.8 yards per play; NE averaged 5.2 yards per play. Even TOP wasn't hugely in Tennessee's favor, and if you take away the crazy almost two minutes wasted on the punt fiasco in the fourth quarter, it was just about even steven.

The issue was that Tennessee had TWO chances to score, and they punched it into the end zone both times. NE had THREE chances to score, and managed one TD and two FGs. 14 beats 13. The Pats score a TD when they have first and goal from the one, and they're quite likely playing next week.

It felt like the D got dominated last night but the reality is they got dominated on two drives that resulted in 14 points and otherwise they were pretty stout. Tennessee's 7 non-TD drives gained 7, 7, 16, 14, 12, 39, and 28 yards. How much better of a job can you really ask a defense to do? The two long TD drives - especially the first one culminating in the 3rd and 10 TD pass - were obviously rough, but if you went into this game knowing that the Patriots would hold Tennessee to 14 points, wouldn't you have been really happy with that?

 

[Brohamer of the Gods]

Man, looking at those stats is actually painful. Sanu actually had 5 targets and Harry 7 but the point remains.

38 yards on SIXTEEN targets. That's a nightmare. Sanu fucking sucked so badly in New England. I guess he was like Juju in Pitt last year. When the focus is on AB or Julio, some guys can prosper. When you don't have a main guy taking up all the focus, you suck.

Sanu sucks. Losing AB in Week 2 cost this team. He's an idiot and it had an impact.

Yeah, even doubling the catches and yards to a merely bad 8 and 76 would have likely made a difference.

 

[Harry Hooper]

The Pats D benefited a lot from Henry sitting out for many plays.

 

[Super Nomario]

EPA = expected points allowed, I presume?

Yes.

Even TOP wasn't hugely in Tennessee's favor, and if you take away the crazy almost two minutes wasted on the punt fiasco in the fourth quarter, it was just about even steven.

The Titans didn't dominate time of possession last night because the Patriots' offense was stringing together drives; they didn't go three-and-out all night. Allowing 31 minutes of TOP on only 9 drives (one of which was constrained by the end of the first half) is awful. It would be worst in the league over a full season.

They let Tennessee kill a tremendous amount of clock. The Titans got the ball at 12:45 of the fourth and drove into NE territory before screwing up a snap and having to punt. Yeah, there was the clock shenanigans, but they killed half the remaining time even without that. Then on the final drive, the Titans got two first downs, effectively ending the game.

The Titans had nine drives.
80 yard-TD drive (terrible for Pats D)
three-and-out (good!)
three-and-out (good!)
75-yard TD drive in two minute (an absolute disaster)
16-yard drive, flipped field position so Pats started at their own 13 (not great)
14-yard drive, flipped field position so Pats started at their own 7 (not great)
interception (good!)
8-minute drive that pinned the Pats at their own 11 (bad)
basically the game-ender (terrible)

That's four bad drives by the D, three good ones, and two that are debatable. I think EPA is telling a fair story here.

 

[j44thor]

The Pats D benefited a lot from Henry sitting out for many plays.

I don't think it is as simple as that. Henry was sitting out because he was gassed after certain runs. Had he continued to run he very likely would have been ineffective.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

I don't think it is as simple as that. Henry was sitting out because he was gassed after certain runs. Had he continued to run he very likely would have been ineffective.

Yeah these guys aren’t robots.

 

[LogansDad]

I don't think Chung fares any better on those plays. His coverage skills have been average at best this season and the defensive play calls had Brooks 1-1 vs the much bigger Firkser on both plays. The defensive calls on those plays were the GOAT more than Chung's ankle.

I don't know how much it would have changed defensive positioning in game or anything, but I think Chung probably makes a better tackle than DMC on the Tannehill 3rd down run that all but sealed the game barring a miracle. I loved DMC, but that tackle was really, really bad.

 

[jodyreeddudley78]

The defense looked great when Henry was tripping, tired, or not playing. The guy had 200+ total yards. Granted, that has become a standard Nov/Dec performance for Henry over the last two years, but I’m not sure that qualifies as a great defensive performance by the Pats. Sure, they defended Tannehill well, but guess what? The Titans didn’t need to rely on Tannehill when they could just hand the ball Henry as needed to chew up yards and clock. The Patriots defense was at its best this year when it was playing from ahead, forcing the opposition to throw against the best secondary in the league, and could therefore take risks and force turnovers. The couple of times the Patriots actually forced the Titans to pass last night, they looked pretty good. But the Titans only attempted to pass the ball 16 times.

 

[BaseballJones]

Yes.


The Titans didn't dominate time of possession last night because the Patriots' offense was stringing together drives; they didn't go three-and-out all night. Allowing 31 minutes of TOP on only 9 drives (one of which was constrained by the end of the first half) is awful. It would be worst in the league over a full season.

They let Tennessee kill a tremendous amount of clock. The Titans got the ball at 12:45 of the fourth and drove into NE territory before screwing up a snap and having to punt. Yeah, there was the clock shenanigans, but they killed half the remaining time even without that. Then on the final drive, the Titans got two first downs, effectively ending the game.

The Titans had nine drives.
80 yard-TD drive (terrible for Pats D)
three-and-out (good!)
three-and-out (good!)
75-yard TD drive in two minute (an absolute disaster)
16-yard drive, flipped field position so Pats started at their own 13 (not great)
14-yard drive, flipped field position so Pats started at their own 7 (not great)
interception (good!)
8-minute drive that pinned the Pats at their own 11 (bad)
basically the game-ender (terrible)

That's four bad drives by the D, three good ones, and two that are debatable. I think EPA is telling a fair story here.

You can’t blame the Pats’ D for the flipped field position on the drives when Ten gained 16 and 14 yards. The first one Ten started at their own 27, and had a 44 yard net punt. The second one Ten started at their 43 and their punter buried NE at the 7. That’s grossly unfair of you to pin blame on those situations on the Pats’ defense. Come on now.

And the 8-minute drive was aided by nearly two minutes run off on the punt/clock shenanigans. Again, not remotely the defense’s fault and even then they got the offense the ball back with plenty of time needing just a FG to win.

They gave up two bad drives and a killer third down conversion.

 

[jodyreeddudley78]

Tennessee was basically telling the Patriots that they were running the ball every play. And the Patriots couldn't stop it. I think they had, what, two play actions all night?

The Tennessee plan was to run Henry into the ground. The Patriots likely knew this was the plan. Guess which side won that contest.

I still think this game largely fallls under the blame of offensive ineptitude. Tenn was one of the worst defenses in the playoffs. And I understand the larger point that the defense held the Tenn offense to 14 points. But when the offense doesn't force Tenn to deviate from their offensive game plan and they still successfully do exactly what they planned to do, I'm not sure you can call that a defensive victory either.

 

[BaseballJones]

Tennessee was basically telling the Patriots that they were running the ball every play. And the Patriots couldn't stop it. I think they had, what, two play actions all night?

The Tennessee plan was to run Henry into the ground. The Patriots likely knew this was the plan. Guess which side won that contest.

I still think this game largely fallls under the blame of offensive ineptitude. Tenn was one of the worst defenses in the playoffs. And I understand the larger point that the defense held the Tenn offense to 14 points. But when the offense doesn't force Tenn to deviate from their offensive game plan and they still successfully do exactly what they planned to do, I'm not sure you can call that a defensive victory either.

Again, outside of two drives the Titans basically did nothing. 120+ yards gained on 7 possessions. You’ll take that all the time.

The difference was that Ten scores 2 TDs on their two scoring chances, while the Pats scored one TD and 2 FGs. Disregard the stupid pick six at the end... this was a 14-13 game. If you were told at the start of the game (especially after Ten’s opening drive) that NE would hold them to 14 points, every single person in this forum would have happily taken that and taken our chances that the offense could score more than that.

 

[Super Nomario]

The difference was that Ten scores 2 TDs on their two scoring chances, while the Pats scored one TD and 2 FGs. Disregard the stupid pick six at the end... this was a 14-13 game. If you were told at the start of the game (especially after Ten’s opening drive) that NE would hold them to 14 points, every single person in this forum would have happily taken that and taken our chances that the offense could score more than that.

What if you were told that the Patriots had to beat those 14 points on only eight (real) possessions, mostly with lousy field position? I'm definitely not as sanguine about it.

You can’t blame the Pats’ D for the flipped field position on the drives when Ten gained 16 and 14 yards. The first one Ten started at their own 27, and had a 44 yard net punt. The second one Ten started at their 43 and their punter buried NE at the 7. That’s grossly unfair of you to pin blame on those situations on the Pats’ defense. Come on now.

The 43 I'll grant you (mostly the fault of a Bailey shank). Their own 27 is average field position, so I'm not giving the D a pass there, though as I noted, those are debatable / neutral.

And the 8-minute drive was aided by nearly two minutes run off on the punt/clock shenanigans. Again, not remotely the defense’s fault and even then they got the offense the ball back with plenty of time needing just a FG to win.

And the D was the only unit in a position to stop the punt/clock shenanigans, and they failed. And it's not like letting Tennessee eat 6 1/2 minutes would have been a lot better. The D played one good quarter out of four (the third). They got their butts handed to them in the first half, and they let the Titans dominate the ball in the fourth quarter.

 

[E5 Yaz]

The D played one good quarter out of four (the third). They got their butts handed to them in the first half, and they let the Titans dominate the ball in the fourth quarter.

Derrick Henry. Titans have run him into the ground this season (337 carries, 19 receptions after yesterday), but even with a suspect O-line, a back like that doesn't get stuffed 3 times from the 1

 

[Deathofthebambino]

The 43 I'll grant you (mostly the fault of a Bailey shank). Their own 27 is average field position, so I'm not giving the D a pass there, though as I noted, those are debatable / neutral.

I don't understand this. So any time a defense doesn't get a 3 and out, it's a bad (or debatable/neutral) series? 14 yards and 16 yards per drive is, without debate, fantastic. Period. The worst team in the NFL on a yards per drive basis was the Redskins, and they averaged 24.08 yards per drive this year. The Titans averaged 32.81 yards per drive this season. Giving up 30 yards over two drives isn't debatable. It's a great job by the defense.

I think Bailey is getting a bit of a raw deal here. He didn't have his best game, and his last punt that went into the end zone was a terrible one, but people were blasting him for having 2 back to back touchbacks. However, the 1st done was a 61 yard punt. When you are kicking from your own 29 yard line (the LOS, actually kicking from around your own 15), you just kick it as far as you can and hope for a bounce. Even NFL punters don't have the ability to say "I'll just kick this one 55 yards instead of 60." If they knew they could kick it 55-60 yards every time, they'd be making the bust for them in Canton already. That punt was fine.

This one was lost by Josh and BB the GM. You don't take the ball out of the greatest player of all time's hands and give it to Elandon Roberts, Sony Michel, Rex Burkhead on 4 massive short yardage plays in a row. You just don't. You have to give Brady at least 1-2 chances there to make a play. I said it back in week 2-3 and I've been saying it all season. The biggest injury this team suffered all year was James Develin. They basically kept running the same off tackle and edge runs that worked in the playoffs last year (which is why Sony had like 6td's in 3 games), but never accounted for the fact that James Develin is the reason those plays worked. When Roberts came on the field, the entire defense just flowed to wherever he went and as a result, guys were stuffed, including Roberts himself on that dreadful FB dive play. Couple that with the receiving corps, and the lack of tight ends, and that's why BB the GM needs to wear some GOAT horns. They needed to figure out a way to replace Gronk with something more than LaCosse, and they just didn't. Ryan Izzo wasn't that guy either, and Ben Watson, while I love him, is done.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

The score was 14-13 Tennessee at the half. If anyone had told me that the defense would not allow another point, and that they would produce one turnover at midfield, I would have pencilled this into the W column.

 

[BigSoxFan]

The score was 14-13 Tennessee at the half. If anyone had told me that the defense would not allow another point, and that they would produce one turnover at midfield, I would have pencilled this into the W column.

Yup. Defense wasn’t perfect but, unlike last week, they did their job. They held Tennessee to 14 points. They forced the big turnover. The offense choked at the 1 yard line. The offense squandered good field position after turnover. The offense failed to execute on last possession. They get the largest goat horns.

 

[BaseballJones]

What if you were told that the Patriots had to beat those 14 points on only eight (real) possessions, mostly with lousy field position? I'm definitely not as sanguine about it.

Well, what if I told you that they'd have first and goal at the one on one possession, and begin another one at their own 41, and come up with just 3 points in those two possessions?

The 43 I'll grant you (mostly the fault of a Bailey shank). Their own 27 is average field position, so I'm not giving the D a pass there, though as I noted, those are debatable / neutral.

The D gave up 16 and 14 yards in those drives. That's excellent work. I can't believe you're calling those a failure for the defense. That's ridiculous.

And the D was the only unit in a position to stop the punt/clock shenanigans, and they failed.

That was all on the coaching staff for not calling time out. What else could the defense have done there?

And it's not like letting Tennessee eat 6 1/2 minutes would have been a lot better. The D played one good quarter out of four (the third). They got their butts handed to them in the first half, and they let the Titans dominate the ball in the fourth quarter.

If Brady had gotten the ball that last time with an extra 2 minutes on the clock instead of just 15 seconds, that wouldn't have been a lot better? Maybe they still don't score, but come on, that's a night and day scenario.

The defense allowed 272 (150 of which came on the two scoring drives) yards and 14 points. There isn't a fan or coach in all of Pats Nation that wouldn't have signed up for that before the game started. You included.

 

[Super Nomario]

I think Bailey is getting a bit of a raw deal here. He didn't have his best game, and his last punt that went into the end zone was a terrible one, but people were blasting him for having 2 back to back touchbacks. However, the 1st done was a 61 yard punt. When you are kicking from your own 29 yard line (the LOS, actually kicking from around your own 15), you just kick it as far as you can and hope for a bounce. Even NFL punters don't have the ability to say "I'll just kick this one 55 yards instead of 60." If they knew they could kick it 55-60 yards every time, they'd be making the bust for them in Canton already. That punt was fine.

Bailey had a 29-yard shank, too.

Well, what if I told you that they'd have first and goal at the one on one possession, and begin another one at their own 41, and come up with just 3 points in those two possessions?

I'm not absolving the offense, either. They played like a D/D+ game. The defense played like a C/C-minus game. The special teams played like a C-minus game. Coaching was a D. They lost this game every which way.

That was all on the coaching staff for not calling time out. What else could the defense have done there?

Not allow three first downs with the Titans just going run/run/pass every time. Again, even without the clock shenanigans, the Titans burned more than half the remaining time in the fourth on that drive, taking it down from 12:45 to below six minutes. That's bad for a team that's behind.

The defense allowed 272 (150 of which came on the two scoring drives) yards and 14 points. There isn't a fan or coach in all of Pats Nation that wouldn't have signed up for that before the game started. You included.

Context matters. Allowing these numbers on a normal 11-12 drives is great. Allowing it on 9 drives, at least one of which the Titans weren't trying to score, and set up with largely great defensive field position to work with, is C/C-minus work.

Something I don't think anyone has brought up yet: the Titans had a massive field goal kicking problem this year. That makes punting late even more inexcusable, because setting up Tennessee with good field position was no guarantee to lead to points.

 

[BaseballJones]

I'm not absolving the offense, either. They played like a D/D+ game. The defense played like a C/C-minus game. The special teams played like a C-minus game. Coaching was a D. They lost this game every which way.

Football is the ultimate team sport. I mean, consider the Falcons' SB. They had allowed 28 points to Atlanta (yes a pick-six, but the Falcons had done a lot offensively) but then in the fourth quarter they completely stifled them. And even then, they gave up the huge (incredible) play to Julio Jones that would have lost them the game if not for a HUGE sack by Flowers and a holding call that Long created with a great pass rush. So at key moments in that game (obviously the Hightower strip sack too, plus another sack taking Atlanta out of FG range) the D came up big. Same for the Seattle SB.

In this game, the D definitely had down moments. The two scoring drives were just about criminal in terms of how Tennessee abused the Patriots. That kind of beating should be against the law. And yet, besides that, the defense really shut the Titans down. Just 122 yards on 7 possessions is really good defense. It sure feels like based on your standards, the Pats' D basically needed to stuff Ten 3 and out every time in order for it not to receive a poor grade, like when you considered 16 and 14 yard drives to be considered failures. I mean, really.

Not allow three first downs with the Titans just going run/run/pass every time. Again, even without the clock shenanigans, the Titans burned more than half the remaining time in the fourth on that drive, taking it down from 12:45 to below six minutes. That's bad for a team that's behind.

Without the punt/clock shenanigans, they stopped Tennessee and even with them, gave the ball to the offense with plenty of time on the clock. Edelman doesn't drop that and the Pats quite likely score the winning FG on that drive.

Context matters. Allowing these numbers on a normal 11-12 drives is great. Allowing it on 9 drives, at least one of which the Titans weren't trying to score, and set up with largely great defensive field position to work with, is C/C-minus work.

Something I don't think anyone has brought up yet: the Titans had a massive field goal kicking problem this year. That makes punting late even more inexcusable, because setting up Tennessee with good field position was no guarantee to lead to points.

Yes I totally agree with that. They definitely should NOT have punted late in the game.

 

[johnmd20]

I'm not absolving the offense, either. They played like a D/D+ game. The defense played like a C/C-minus game. The special teams played like a C-minus game. Coaching was a D. They lost this game every which way.

That was NOT a C game from the defense. You're being a fool. The Titans had the best offense in the NFL over the last 8 games of the season.

The Pats held them to almost nothing big and 14 points. That's an excellent effort. B+ at worst and only because they lost. If the Pats won 16-14, that would be an A defense.

 

[BaseballJones]

That was NOT a C game from the defense. You're being a fool. The Titans had the best offense in the NFL over the last 8 games of the season.

The Pats held them to almost nothing big and 14 points. That's an excellent effort. B+ at worst and only because they lost. If the Pats won 16-14, that would be an A defense.

The D gave the Pats the ball at NE's 41 and the offense did *nothing*. The offense had the ball 1st and goal from Tennessee's one yard line and kicked a FG. If the Pats had converted that great field position into a FG, or had scored a TD from the one, then they most likely win the game and everyone is talking about how, while Henry had a big game, the Pats' D held up really well and shut them down when they had to.

 

[Bowhemian]

It’s all on the shit-ass play calling, and the offensive personnel’s failure to perform. First and goal from the one and come away with only 3 points is downright criminal.

 

[SMU_Sox]

Big picture: the D in 8/9 drives gave up 14 points good for either 1.56 points per drive or 1.75. 1.56 would be 3rd overall for the year and 1.75 tied for 7th. They did this against a good offense so the result from a points per drive level is impressive. I gave them a B+ because of the problems against the run, allowing both red zone possessions for TDs, and having some poor situational football and on third downs. They generated an interception and did not have luck recovering either fumble but they put them in good turnover position.

Anyone know who was losing the most on the DL vs the run? Wise didn’t have a good night. We’re Shelton and Guy ok?