2020 NBA Draft discussion

DannyDarwinism

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I don't like Pokusevski at 14, but I think he'd be fun late in the first. He might not last, though, but I like the idea of lottery tickets late in the first. Maybe one of them will pan out.

I think there's something to that, but if you're going to take a swing like that on a potentially high ceiling player with big bust potential, you'd better have some good intel on the guy's make up, because the flip side to KOC's "the Celtis are in such a great position that they can take a high risk chance" is that the Celtics also are going to need to get production from affordable contracts. That's why I like Grant and Clarke last year, and that's why I like Tillman and Bane this year- because I think there's a good chance they'll provide positive value on their rookie contracts.

Poku, if he pans out at all, screams "second contract guy" to me. Smart people love his skills, but that frame just has not worked in the NBA very often at all, and Ainge pretty clearly thinks strength is an important attribute. So if you think he's got the mental fortitude to persevere while getting pummeled by the Mook Morrises of the world, so that he's learning enough while his body fills out to make it worth picking up his third and fourth year options, then I'm all for taking the gamble. Bender is certainly the cautionary tale here, and while Poku's frame makes Dragan look like Ivan Drago, the kid's spine better be made of sterner stuff.
 

nighthob

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Pokey is about 3” shorter and 40-50 lbs lighter than ‘Zingas was going into the draft. ‘Zingas also had more room to fill out.
 

Swedgin

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Pokey is about 3” shorter and 40-50 lbs lighter than ‘Zingas was going into the draft. ‘Zingas also had more room to fill out.
Is there a track record for anyone with his very slight build having succeeded in the league. His reported weight varies considerably from site to site, but just from the film and the photos, he makes Durant look like David Robinson.
 

NomarsFool

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I think 'Zingas might have been a year or two older when drafted. Can make a big difference with these kids.
 

DannyDarwinism

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I think 'Zingas might have been a year or two older when drafted. Can make a big difference with these kids.
Yeah, I remember that he was potentially going to declare the year before, but he smartly stayed another year, filled out a bit more, and went high lotto. But yeah the track record is so bad with guys with his body type. I thought Anthony Randolph and Austin Daye going to be the shit. And people say the same thing in defense of Poku as they did them- “he’s a 7 foot guard, he doesn’t need to bang down low, he’ll just play on the perimeter and shot over everyone!”, ignoring that strength is important in so many other ways that we don’t really even see scrawny guards that much, and when we do, they’re insanely skilled and quick. So yeah, I’m a skeptic, but he does look pretty fun from the terrible quality highlights I’ve seen. If you could pump him full of HGH and lock him in the gym for a year, maybe he’s worth a draft and stash.
 

chilidawg

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Yeah, I remember that he was potentially going to declare the year before, but he smartly stayed another year, filled out a bit more, and went high lotto. But yeah the track record is so bad with guys with his body type. I thought Anthony Randolph and Austin Daye going to be the shit. And people say the same thing in defense of Poku as they did them- “he’s a 7 foot guard, he doesn’t need to bang down low, he’ll just play on the perimeter and shot over everyone!”, ignoring that strength is important in so many other ways that we don’t really even see scrawny guards that much, and when we do, they’re insanely skilled and quick. So yeah, I’m a skeptic, but he does look pretty fun from the terrible quality highlights I’ve seen. If you could pump him full of HGH and lock him in the gym for a year, maybe he’s worth a draft and stash.
Not at 14 though.
 

Devizier

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Who was the skinniest successful guy in recent NBA history? Tayshaun Prince? Corey Brewer was very skinny but was basically a journeyman/role player on bad teams.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Tayshaun was a four year player in college, so about three years older than KD as a rookie, but even in the pics of him at Kentucky, he looks significantly bigger than Poku. I think Austin Daye’s the closest guy, he had a decentish career and played on the perimeter. Brandon Ingram, who also had broader shoulders and a thicker chest, is there if you squint. The real twiggy guys are the giant shot blocking specialists who rarely left the paint- Manute, Shawn Bradley, the immortal Keith Closs- so they aren’t particularly useful as comps. Poku’s legs don’t look that bad, but that upper body is something I don’t ever remember seeing in the NBA. Zion would break him into a thousand pieces.
 

benhogan

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Whenever I see Herro, and think of his being drafted #13 (aka every time I see him), I get physically ill. Tatum+Brown+Smart+Herro would be so ridiculous going forward...
Yep, liked both Kentucky guys just ahead of Romeo: Herro (13). PJ Washington (12).
Keldon Johnson (29) doesn't look bad for the SAS

2018 NBA draft had 2 Kentucky 1st Rounders: Knox (9) and SGA (11)
2017: Fox (5), Bam (14), Monk(11)

Calipari gets some great prospects, but they seem well-prepped for the NBA.

Quickley, SEC POY getting mocked in mid 2nd range is my late pick binky

 

DannyDarwinism

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Quickley, SEC POY getting mocked in mid 2nd range is my late pick binky
I definitely wouldn't hate it at 47. I typically don't go for undersized SGs, but no question his shooting is absolutely elite. He could be the closest approximation to JJ Redick (peak JJ, from back when he was a competent defender) in this draft. Or maybe the guy I thought Malik Monk was going to be, with a little less off the bounce but better defense. Definitely needs to hit the weight room, but he looks like he has some length, so I think he can guard his share of NBA twos, and he seems pretty sharp off of the ball, on both ends. I don't know how much creation he can provide- I think Maxey breaking out probably sealed his fate with Cal as far as that role- but it's hard to tell with some of those Kentucky kids. Was great at getting to the line, but sucked at finishing at the rim and with his frame he's likely capped as a two-level scorer, but 40/90 3pt and FT% with solid defense in the SEC don't lie. The Sixers should be taking a hard look at him too.
 

JakeRae

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I’ve been trending toward thinking drafting Poku at 14 might make sense (or trading back up into the late teens to draft him there after taking a wing at 14). This team is going to be in a strong position to recruit veteran wings to compete for titles and is also well positioned with Romeo and Grant looking like good picks last year with the ability to help fill our our rotation. Another quality wing rotation player never hurts, but it’s not every draft you are in a position to gamble on a super high ceiling prospect, particularly when you basically have a locked in rotation for the next couple years. We are perfectly positioned to draft a player we know will not contribute for several years on the chance that if he can get his body to the NBA level, the skills are there.

Separately, what do people think of Paul Reed? He comes from a smaller program and is older, but looks like exactly the sort of athletic big wing you always need, has great defensive and rebounding instincts, and looks like he has room to add strength so that he can be a small 5. He’s been getting mocked late first/early second and could be a really solid pick at 30 and also someone who might still be around when we pick at 47.
 

thehitcat

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Wow am I old. I looked up Paul Reed and he went to Depaul. When I was a lad Depaul coached by Meyer (the elder) was one of the best programs in the country. Anyway carry on I'll check out his highlights. Actually one question here for the draft mavens. Any thought to getting another ball handler to groom behind Kemba? If so are there any folks who might be good value for us at 14? Or do we wait a year and hope Cade Cunningham gets to us? I'll hang up and listen.
 

Mooch

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I like what I’m hearing about Tyrell Terry growing a couple of inches and putting on another 20 pounds of muscle. Size was always the question mark with so if that’s somewhat mitigated, he’s a terrific combo guard who can shoot from anywhere in the gym.

Would love to snag him at the #14 pick.
 

128

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I like what I’m hearing about Tyrell Terry growing a couple of inches and putting on another 20 pounds of muscle. Size was always the question mark with so if that’s somewhat mitigated, he’s a terrific combo guard who can shoot from anywhere in the gym.

Would love to snag him at the #14 pick.
I love the idea of grooming Kemba's successor, if the right guy is available.
 

TripleOT

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Poku does have a good shootings stroke and a quick trigger. He also has some passing ability. I don't think I've ever seen a (non-lumbering center) prospect play so close to the floor. In the highlights I watched, his feet didn't seem to rise more than a foot off the hardwood once. That's not how NBA basketball is played. He might be able to get away with catching and shooting as a ground bound player, because of his height, but that's about it. He certainly isn't going to use his body to create space near the hoop.

It would be nice to find an instant contributor this time at 14.
 

nighthob

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I'm of the same mind. Bey, Nesmith, Vassell all seem like they would fit the bill and it's likely at least one will still be available. Or better move up to 10 or so and get the one you really want. Future is now.
I like Saddiq Bey (there are two Beys, best to use full names) as a big wing/3&D guy. That being said, Nesmith is a real possibility if he’s there at #14, he’s just an absurdly good shooter and great value in the mid first (Saddiq Bey is more a catch & shoot guy). Vassell is going to be an elite 3&D wing, he’s almost certainly going mid lottery.

If Ty Terry is really 6’3”/6’4” 180, he’d be a fascinating pick at #14 (especially if the late growth keeps for a bit). If the measurements are real he could emerge as one of the few stars from this class. If the story of T-Square filling out is true, he might be at the top of my wishlist at #14. Nesmith is otherwise holding to #1 for me right now. I love Precious Achiuwa, but I think they can tab someone like Stewart later to be the long term answer at the C spot.
 

TripleOT

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Anyone like Vernon Carey with one of the late first round picks? Seemed like a productive scorer at Duke. He only took a handful of threes, but hit 38% of them this season. Why doesn’t he get much pre-draft buzz?
 

Burkharts Uppercut

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when's the last time a guy averaged over 52% on 3's with more than 8 attempts/gm?

this guy could add value from deep right away
Nesmith would be an exciting add if he happened to slip to 14. That said, I think it's a risky pick considering the small sample size, strength of schedule, and home laden schedule he played. He only played 14 games, 12 of those games were home games against mostly a very weak non-conference schedule. I've also read comments that he is considered a streaky shooter. In his freshman year in 32 games, he shot 34% from 3 and was considerably better at home (29% road vs 38% home). He doesn't project to do much else well beside shoot, so I think you have to rely on your scouting more than last season's numbers here as the 52% could have been a case of lightning in a bottle.

That said I hope we pick up a shooter in this draft, if not Nesmith, Desmond Bane with one of the later picks. Immanuel Quickley, Sam Merrill or Isaiah Joe all seem like easy picks to get behind with pick 47.
 
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benhogan

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Anyone like Vernon Carey with one of the late first round picks? Seemed like a productive scorer at Duke. He only took a handful of threes, but hit 38% of them this season. Why doesn’t he get much pre-draft buzz?
All 5s are being devalued on a nightly basis

at 30 maybe?

definitely, as a 2nd rounder (some mocks have him there)...otherwise wings, please

if he has a good work ethic (?) the Brad Machine could make him better defensively
 

Sam Ray Not

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With a lot these guys so bunched up in terms of critical consensus and no recent game footage to go by, the official measurements seem like a bigger deal this year than usual. Like, Anthony Edwards or Tyrese Halliburton are a lot more intriguing to me at 6’-6” with 7-foot wingspans than at 6’-4”/6’-9”. Okongwu and Toppin seem more appealing at 6’-10” than at 6’-8”. Etc.

I pretty much expect James Wiseman to destroy the combine in all areas, but if he does so at a historic, better-than-AD level, I suspect concerns about his tiny college sample size will start to melt away. (Especially when he put up 52.7 PER in that tiny sample).
 
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NomarsFool

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It's really interesting to me how many of the elite bigs in the league were later draft picks. The most defining feature of a big, height, is the most objective and easiest to measure metric there is. Of course, there are a few circumstances where players grow (Giannis), but probably not that common given the age that players are typically drafted. I guess all the other factors that go into a big's eventual success are much more difficult to gauge at their development stage than for non-big players. Of course, there are other top end players that are later picks as well, but it seems like a smaller proportion than for bigs. But, maybe I'm completely off.

That's why I'm glad the C's have a couple of late round picks to play with this year. There's a chance one of them turns out to be an elite player. Despite the way the NBA is trending, I'd still like to see them have a young big in the pipeline.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Out of curiosity ... if Wiseman started to slide a bit past #5 (I’ve seen him as low as #7-10 in a few mocks) how hot would you guys be try to trade up for him? I’ve massively warmed up to the idea of GS picking him #2, and am curious about the Port Cellar’s general take on him.
 

nighthob

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There's a real lack of footage problem with him. The question is Is he a great center or a great player? because the former might not be worth a top five pick.
 

benhogan

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Out of curiosity ... if Wiseman started to slide a bit past #5 (I’ve seen him as low as #7-10 in a few mocks) how hot would you guys be try to trade up for him? I’ve massively warmed up to the idea of GS picking him #2, and am curious about the Port Cellar’s general take on him.
I'd rather get 2 wings at 14/26 and use #30 or the 2nd rounder on the best of Carey/Stewart/Tillman/Oturu/Azubuike

OR
if they really want a Big use #14 on Precious + 26/30 on wings

I'm not sure its a slam dunk that Wiseman will be a better player than Okongwu or Precious (or the rabble I listed) in the modern NBA. What is Wiseman's work ethic/attitude like? After watching the Heat up close and what Tatum does every Summer, give me the hardest worker out of the bunch.
 

nighthob

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Yeah, with his wingspan in the smallball era Tillman might be a pretty good C, and acquired in the late first/early second. Achiuwa also looks like he could be a real asset at the C spot with his wing game (assuming that Larranaga can teach him to shoot). I would definitely think long and hard about him if he were available at #14

The more I watch of Scrubb and McDaniels the more I've warmed up to them as high upside plays in the 25-50 range. With McDaniels it's all about whether or not he can play at 230-240 without any athleticism loss. If he could he could be perfect as the big wing/shooter to use with the J-Crew.
 

chilidawg

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There's a real lack of footage problem with him. The question is Is he a great center or a great player? because the former might not be worth a top five pick.
I watched him in one of the games he played for Memphis and thought he really stood out as clearly a top prospect. Continually surprised at how much doubt there is about him.
 

EL Jeffe

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That said I hope we pick up a shooter in this draft, if not Nesmith, Desmond Bane with one of the later picks. Immanuel Quickley, Sam Merrill or Isaiah Joe all seem like easy picks to get behind with pick 47.
Isaiah Joe is very much on my Boston radar in this draft. He's a bit of a chucker, but he can really shoot with a quick release and good form. He's somewhere in that 6'4-6'5 range with good length, so there's some potential switchability defensively (when he adds some strength; he's lanky). As a second unit shooter/spacer, he looks like a fit.
 

benhogan

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Yeah, with his wingspan in the smallball era Tillman might be a pretty good C, and acquired in the late first/early second. Achiuwa also looks like he could be a real asset at the C spot with his wing game (assuming that Larranaga can teach him to shoot). I would definitely think long and hard about him if he were available at #14

The more I watch of Scrubb and McDaniels the more I've warmed up to them as high upside plays in the 25-50 range. With McDaniels it's all about whether or not he can play at 230-240 without any athleticism loss. If he could he could be perfect as the big wing/shooter to use with the J-Crew.
Do you like McDaniels over Stewart?

How would you rate this year's 25-50 selection? Seems like the depth of this draft is decent while the top of this draft absolutely blows. Or is that my Celtic bias at work?

Strong/long wings that can shoot in the 25-50 range: Bane, Woodard II, Nwora, Tyler Bey...Stanley, Joe

SG in 25-50 range, that can shoot (transition to ballhandlers?); Ramsey, Quickley, Mays, Riller
 
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EL Jeffe

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Strong/long wings that can shoot in the 25-50 range: Bane, Woodard II, Nwora, Tyler Bey...Stanley, Joe

SG in 25-50 range, that can shoot (transition to ballhandlers?); Ramsey, Quickley, Mays, Riller
Nwora is another guy that would make a lot of sense. Yeah he's a junior, and there's not a lot of ceiling or wow factor to him, but he's just a good basketball player. His size, length, and frame are pretty much NBA wing ready and he can shoot it (40% from 3, 81% FT). It's not too hard to imagine a Jae Crowder-type career if things break right for him.
 

nighthob

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How would you rate this year's 25-50 selection? Seems like the depth of this draft is decent while the top of this draft absolutely blows. Or is that my Celtic bias at work?
I think the 21-50 range this year is going to feature a lot of NBA rotation guys with some real interesting high upside plays that might turn into competent/good starters (which is really all you can ask out of that grouping).

Do you like McDaniels over Stewart?
I think that Stewart is a classic Danny late first pick, moderate upside/high floor guy. Has the mass to be competitive against the remaining NBA behemoths, but sufficient quickness to succeed in the pace & space era. He reminds me of a poor man’s Al Horford with his 6’8”/6’9” 250lb frame and +7/+8 wingspan. Of course if they go with Achiuwa or Jalen Smith at #14, I’m not sure that Stewart will be on their radar at #26/30.

McDaniels is a homerun swing. His height/length are eyepopping, and the high release point on the jumper makes it effectively unblockable. If he could play at 230 he'd be the perfect third wheel for the J-Crew (especially given his name).

Strong/long wings that can shoot in the 25-50 range: Bane, Woodard II, Nwora, Tyler Bey...Stanley, Joe
RWII is one of my favorite players in this range. I would be happy with him in the 20s. He's got fantastic size/length (6'7" 235 with +6 wingspan) and combines it with high athleticism and motor. Guys like that nearly never bust out. Of course we were saying the same things about Ojeleye a few years ago. But RWII never quits on plays defensively and is a good shotblocker. He's a great catch & shoot guy ho should be able to be a 3&D rotation guy out of the gate with the upside to be an elite 3&D player. Like Covington in his Philly years.

I love Stanley's potential as instant offense off the bench, but I don't think I'd describe him as long. Then again, after Tyler Herro's performance this year, Stanley might not make it to Boston. Bey has an uuuuuuuugly jumper. Great defensive roleplayer, though. I like Nwora as a 3&D rotation player and would be happy with him at #47.

SG in 25-50 range, that can shoot (transition to ballhandlers?); Ramsey, Quickley, Mays, Riller
I think I've previously mentioned Quickley and Riller as guys I like. Skylar Mays doesn't do much for me.

As for Jahmi'us Ramsey, whatever station the Ramsey train is leaving from I want to avoid lest I accidentally get on it. While he has definite offensive gifts, the fact is that if Marcus Smart v2020 makes us crazy, Ramsey will have us tearing our hair out with his shot selection. He takes more ill advised shots than Aaron Hernandez. He combines that with being one of the worst defensive players I've ever watched tape on. For a guy whose offensive footwork is so good his defensive footwork is Patrick Williams bad. Only unlike Williams he constantly gives up on plays. Let someone else take that gamble, because I'm not seeing much of a payoff there.
 
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