2020 NCAA Football

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
32,620
Herm the Worm’s team scored 70 last week and has 46 this week with 12 minutes left to play
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
32,620
Any McKenzie Milton takes? He’s moving to Tallahassee. I like Jordan Travis but I don’t know about Milton.
 
what type of backwards logic is this?
I can see the logic. Iowa State played four more games than Indiana, which meant it had four more chances to embarrass itself than Indiana did. Maybe the committee decided not to ding teams for having bad losses, but rather to focus mostly on their positive achievements? (And Louisiana wound up with a pretty darn good resume anyway.)
 
"Corrupt"? Really? Indiana didn't defeat any team which got *a single vote* in the final AP Top 25, let alone anyone in the actual Top 25 (AP or CFP rankings). The committee was always going to be a hiding to nothing this year; you may not like their logic, but to say that it didn't use any logic seems indefensible.

By the way, you know how many teams Texas A&M defeated who got a single vote in the final AP Top 25? One. (Florida.) The Aggies also only defeated Vandy by five points. Those two data points alone seem enough to warrant Notre Dame staying above them in 4th.
 

Awesome Fossum

Member
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Jul 20, 2005
3,896
Austin, TX
It's not that they don't use logic, it's that they come up with the result they want and then construct the logic afterward. The only reason it exists is to protect Disney from non-brand name teams. "Corrupt" sort of implies it ever existed for any other reason.

Any McKenzie Milton takes? He’s moving to Tallahassee. I like Jordan Travis but I don’t know about Milton.
He was the real deal when he had two intact legs. I'll be rooting for him.
 
By the way, 2020 - messed up as the college football season was - is more evidence that we need more than four teams in the playoff. Plenty of articles out there that agree with me...e.g.:
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/30563882/college-football-playoff-2020-committee-remains-disappointingly-predictablehttps://bleacherreport.com/articles/2923279-the-college-football-playoff-system-needs-an-overhaul-because-this-format-stinks
I'm not sure I'd automatically give a bid to the best Group of 5 team - maybe it should need to meet certain criteria to get in (e.g., be ranked at least in the Top 20, or have no more than one loss) - but the general idea of five conference champions + one Group of 5 + two at-large seems to make plenty of sense to me.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
32,620
By the way, 2020 - messed up as the college football season was - is more evidence that we need more than four teams in the playoff. Plenty of articles out there that agree with me...e.g.:
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/30563882/college-football-playoff-2020-committee-remains-disappointingly-predictablehttps://bleacherreport.com/articles/2923279-the-college-football-playoff-system-needs-an-overhaul-because-this-format-stinks
I'm not sure I'd automatically give a bid to the best Group of 5 team - maybe it should need to meet certain criteria to get in (e.g., be ranked at least in the Top 20, or have no more than one loss) - but the general idea of five conference champions + one Group of 5 + two at-large seems to make plenty of sense to me.
we need less. Playoff is already boring
 
What happens if the Pac 12 champion isn't in the Top 20 or has no more than one loss?
Unlikely, but they'd still get in on the basis that they'd have at least played P5-level opponents all year. (They might get the #8 seed, but they'd still be guaranteed to get in.)
we need less. Playoff is already boring
I might argue that one of the reasons the playoff semifinals tend to be boring is that the best coaching staffs get ages to prepare for - and get their players up for - each game. Maybe, just maybe, having to play three playoff games in four weeks might mitigate those advantages at least a little bit?
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
72,442
What happens if the Pac 12 champion isn't in the Top 20 or has no more than one loss?
1st won't happen by matter of having more games (than this year) and by matter of USC's and ORegon's boosters.
2nd may, but who cares, give them they 8th seed.
 

Awesome Fossum

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
3,896
Austin, TX
That's my preferred model, I just object to the additional parameter if it's not going to be extended to the other conferences. What was Memphis last year, 17? If we're still using a committee, they just would have pushed them down a little further.
 

kenneycb

Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play
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Dec 2, 2006
16,090
Tuukka's refugee camp
It's not that they don't use logic, it's that they come up with the result they want and then construct the logic afterward. The only reason it exists is to protect Disney from non-brand name teams. "Corrupt" sort of implies it ever existed for any other reason.



He was the real deal when he had two intact legs. I'll be rooting for him.
And feed Disney brand names like Iowa State.
 

canderson

Mr. Brightside
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
39,431
Harrisburg, Pa.
It is indeed a sad Army isn’t invited to a bowl. The Armed Forces Bowl features Tulsa vs Mississippi State. F bowl conference tie-ins.
 

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

T&A
SoSH Member
Feb 9, 2010
5,302
Providence, RI
I think a simple answer to the ridiculous way playoff teams are selected is having a 'you're inellible for the playoffs if you've previously lost to another playoff team by 3+ touchdowns' rule.
Things then become real simple. If you want to be a playoff team then just don't lose to another playoff team by 3+ touchdowns. It's a clear, objective bar. If you've been blown out already then step aside and let someone else have a crack at it.

If we're worried about injuries or what not then fine, throw in an exception for blow out losses with extenuating circumstances like when a starting QB can't play. But how many of those types of situations ever actually occur? Trevor Lawrence appears to have been a 3 TD+ difference maker for Clemson vs. Notre Dame, but there are not many Trevor Lawrence's across college football in any given year. You might still get some non-sense from the committee about what are or are not extenuating circumstances but at least they'll be building a track record over time and have to defend current decisions against previous decisions.

A team like Notre Dame would be out. They had their shot, they got blown out. They wouldn't have had to win to stay in the playoff field, they'd just have to show they could be competitive. Same with Texas A&M. Sure they'll say that their blow out loss to Alabama was early in the season that they are a better team now then they were early in the season. But by that logic all teams also get better as the season goes on. So tough luck A&M. Next time, don't get crushed.
 

Humphrey

Member
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Aug 3, 2010
3,163
I think a simple answer to the ridiculous way playoff teams are selected is having a 'you're inellible for the playoffs if you've previously lost to another playoff team by 3+ touchdowns' rule.
Things then become real simple. If you want to be a playoff team then just don't lose to another playoff team by 3+ touchdowns. It's a clear, objective bar. If you've been blown out already then step aside and let someone else have a crack at it.

If we're worried about injuries or what not then fine, throw in an exception for blow out losses with extenuating circumstances like when a starting QB can't play. But how many of those types of situations ever actually occur? Trevor Lawrence appears to have been a 3 TD+ difference maker for Clemson vs. Notre Dame, but there are not many Trevor Lawrence's across college football in any given year. You might still get some non-sense from the committee about what are or are not extenuating circumstances but at least they'll be building a track record over time and have to defend current decisions against previous decisions.

A team like Notre Dame would be out. They had their shot, they got blown out. They wouldn't have had to win to stay in the playoff field, they'd just have to show they could be competitive. Same with Texas A&M. Sure they'll say that their blow out loss to Alabama was early in the season that they are a better team now then they were early in the season. But by that logic all teams also get better as the season goes on. So tough luck A&M. Next time, don't get crushed.
Actually, was he? If Clemson's defense played like they did the first time (poorly), it's a close rematch, not a blowout.
 

Awesome Fossum

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
3,896
Austin, TX
I think a simple answer to the ridiculous way playoff teams are selected is having a 'you're inellible for the playoffs if you've previously lost to another playoff team by 3+ touchdowns' rule.
Things then become real simple. If you want to be a playoff team then just don't lose to another playoff team by 3+ touchdowns. It's a clear, objective bar. If you've been blown out already then step aside and let someone else have a crack at it.
Exactly.
 
Clemson was missing several key players on defense in South Bend, not just Lawrence. (Welp.)

In Notre Dame's defense, they made a very bright start on Saturday and had a few small things go against them which very quickly snowballed thereafter. I expect Alabama to throttle them, but there's maybe a 10% chance that Notre Dame is able to better prepare for Bama knowing what they now know about themselves and/or Bama is overconfident in their preparations, to the point that it might be a competitive game.
 

canderson

Mr. Brightside
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
39,431
Harrisburg, Pa.
Utah RB Ty Jordan accidentally shot and killed himself last night in Denton, Texas. He was just named the conference offensive freshman of the year.

Horrible, horrible, news.
 

terrynever

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
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Aug 25, 2005
21,717
pawtucket
One last story on Black History Month is this USA Today piece on Wally Triplett, who the University of Miami recruited in 1945 until Wally figured he better tell them he was not a Caucasian. The offer was quickly withdrawn. Triplett went on to play at Penn State, where his teammates were great but the town was hardly ready to accommodate Black students. Triplett was the first Black player drafted who played in the NFL. He set a kickoff return record that stood for 44 years but became the first NFL player drafted during the Korean War. Triplett lived to age 92 and preferred to be listed as Negro to his dying day.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2021/02/28/wally-triplett-first-black-draftee-play-nfl/4576028001/?fbclid=IwAR01dCDyoYZWH3WuMLuYB9ZIQvY-xFUHZxVS5F0y1N-WocQBQTbQ8CRusu8
 

Humphrey

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Aug 3, 2010
3,163
"One more time I want us to think about which scenario is worse for LSU," (former LSU AD) Alleva said in a June 21, 2013 email to incoming LSU president F. King Alexander, which is included in the report. "Explaining why we let him go or explaining why we let him stay."
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,375
Really interesting article here on exploding offenses and the impact of new rules allowing the RPO to go nuts:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/with-spread-offenses-still-dominating-college-football-coaches-wonder-whether-theyll-ever-be-stopped/

"Defensive coaches continue to curse RPOs. The run-pass option evolved by capitalizing on an obscure rule from the 1960s. It allowed offensive linemen to block 1 yard beyond the line of scrimmage and drive the defender 3 yards downfield. In 2009, that rule was amended. Linemen could be up to 3 yards downfield (without blocking) when the pass is released.

"That was a trigger point that allowed the RPO to gain new momentum," said Steve Shaw, secretary-editor of the NCAA rules committee.

Ask any defensive coach. He'll tell you that the 3-yard rule is violated on any given RPO by the offense. An RPO essentially allows a quarterback to change the play after the snap with the ball in his hands. What might look like a running play at the mesh point (handoff point between the quarterback and runner) can quickly turn into a pass if the quarterback keeps the ball. At that point, defenders are theoretically fooled by being committed to the run."

- - -

So I get that everyone wants points, but why do they allow offensive linemen to block ANYWHERE past the line of scrimmage on a pass play? That seems decidedly unfair to defenses. Make offensive linemen block at or behind the LOS until a ball is thrown. Simple. That will even things out considerably.
 

CFB_Rules

Member
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Nov 29, 2016
1,603
Really interesting article here on exploding offenses and the impact of new rules allowing the RPO to go nuts:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/with-spread-offenses-still-dominating-college-football-coaches-wonder-whether-theyll-ever-be-stopped/

"Defensive coaches continue to curse RPOs. The run-pass option evolved by capitalizing on an obscure rule from the 1960s. It allowed offensive linemen to block 1 yard beyond the line of scrimmage and drive the defender 3 yards downfield. In 2009, that rule was amended. Linemen could be up to 3 yards downfield (without blocking) when the pass is released.

"That was a trigger point that allowed the RPO to gain new momentum," said Steve Shaw, secretary-editor of the NCAA rules committee.

Ask any defensive coach. He'll tell you that the 3-yard rule is violated on any given RPO by the offense. An RPO essentially allows a quarterback to change the play after the snap with the ball in his hands. What might look like a running play at the mesh point (handoff point between the quarterback and runner) can quickly turn into a pass if the quarterback keeps the ball. At that point, defenders are theoretically fooled by being committed to the run."

- - -

So I get that everyone wants points, but why do they allow offensive linemen to block ANYWHERE past the line of scrimmage on a pass play? That seems decidedly unfair to defenses. Make offensive linemen block at or behind the LOS until a ball is thrown. Simple. That will even things out considerably.
Well it’s not that they are allowed to block, it’s that they are allowed to exist. OPI rules would still apply to any offensive lineman who is blocking downfield.

IDP fouls are a major bitch to call too. You can watch the ball leave the quarterbacks hand and snap your vision to the lineman and you’ll see 3 guys 5 yards downfield. But when you check the tape they are right at 3 yards, and you are getting downgraded. It’s hard to have eyes in two places at once. The timing on these plays is extremely tight.

The Big 12 actually used to assign an extra “off-duty” official to games to stand 3 yards downfield and just watch for men downfield. He would tell the on duty officials to call fouls. Still got them wrong.

Im basically calling IDP in three cases:
-Lineman charges downfield at the snap on a pass play.
-The QB throws the ball on a clearly broken play.
-A screen pass gets overthrown beyond the line of scrimmage.

Anything else and you are mostly guessing.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,375
Why don't they just make it the LOS instead of ANY number of yards downfield? As the article suggests, it's the fact that they can go several yards downfield that really has opened up the offenses and made it nearly impossible for defenses. I'm all for fireworks, but it's really pretty out of control.
 

CFB_Rules

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 29, 2016
1,603
Why don't they just make it the LOS instead of ANY number of yards downfield? As the article suggests, it's the fact that they can go several yards downfield that really has opened up the offenses and made it nearly impossible for defenses. I'm all for fireworks, but it's really pretty out of control.
Gets proposed every year but gets rejected by the coaches. Similar to the blocking below the waist rule, where they want to basically get rid of it but can't due to the triple option offenses. Without coach support the rules committee has to use extra-legal "officials mechanics" maneuvers to try and limit it. Right now they've changed the mechanics to a strict "pane of glass" at the 3 yard line. They want it called if a player's pinky finger touches the line. But the NCAA and rules committees can make all the changes they want. Officials are going to call what their supervisors tell them to. And the officiating supervisors report to the conferences, aka the coaches.

Some time ago the NCAA recognized the problem of having officials in different parts of the country doing different things, and created the CFO (College Football Officiating) organization with the intent of nationalizing mechanics. But the CFO has no hiring, firing, or promotion power. Their only real power is they select which conference gets to work which bowl game, which they could theoretically use to badger the conferences into doing the mechanics they want. In reality they haven't done anything.

With the officiating conglomerations now there are basically five distinct sets of officiating mechanics based on which "big league" is in charge:

CFO West (Big 12/Mountain West/Southland/RMAC/MIAA/Lone Star)
COC (Big 10/MAC/MVC)
ACC/AAC/Big South/NEC/Colonial/Ivy/Patriot
SEC/Sun Belt/Southern/Gulf South
NFL/Pac-12/CUSA/MEAC/SWAC
 
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BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,375
So the coaches like having offense explode like this? They don't want a more balanced game? Why? What advantage is there for coaches in this?