2020 Pats: Bengals Coach Implies Patriots Taping Play Signals

BigSoxFan

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I'm 1000% sure it had everything to do with embarrassing Manning when he was the anointed one in 2003 and 2004. Manning was always in Brady's shadow, and people didn't like that.
You really do wonder what Manning’s legacy would be like today had the refs, Reche Caldwell, the flu, and fucking Jeff Fisher not doomed that 2006 team, which would have absolutely ripped Manning’s heart out. Really is pretty crazy how close Asante Samuel came to being a Pats postseason legend but is now basically forgotten.
 

DJnVa

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I don't care if my friends like my football team. So I *really* don't care if a bunch of fans from other places don't like it.

That said, sometimes I like to argue. Like with the Texans fan I talked to down here in Houston yesterday. At the end of his mini-rant I pointed out he had an Astros hat on .
 

cornwalls@6

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I'm 1000% sure it had everything to do with embarrassing Manning when he was the anointed one in 2003 and 2004. Manning was always in Brady's shadow, and people didn't like that.
Wait until they ruin this years anointed one/feel good story* and grind out an ugly win in the AFC title game in Baltimore. The ESPN morning shows will be inconsolable.


* not meant to belittle Jackson. He’s a great player, and is absolutely the league MVP.
 

BaseballJones

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I don't care if my friends like my football team. So I *really* don't care if a bunch of fans from other places don't like it.

That said, sometimes I like to argue. Like with the Texans fan I talked to down here in Houston yesterday. At the end of his mini-rant I pointed out he had an Astros hat on .
Hahaha that's outstanding. And let's be honest....what the Astros did was far worse, from a "cheating" standpoint, than ANYTHING the Patriots have been accused of doing.
 

amRadio

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Feb 7, 2019
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Same thing as politics: Advancement of social media and echo chambers.
It's really this. There are very few (maybe zero?) serious football analysts who fall peddle the asterisk garbage. I guess most of what I'm reacting to is social media.

edit: a word
 

tims4wins

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The Faulk piece was written in 2017.

The video was produced by the NFL media.

BB himself I don't think has ever used the term - in fact he said something to that effect last year.

The "Patriot Way" thing was mostly a media and fan creation, it's not something the team ever really used, especially BB. Contrast it to Do Your Job, No Days Off, etc., which they have marketed and patented. Patriot Way doesn't show up anywhere.

Now I get that the Patriot Way may be nauseating to other teams fans etc. But it was never really used by the team.
 

Jimbodandy

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I don't care if my friends like my football team. So I *really* don't care if a bunch of fans from other places don't like it.

That said, sometimes I like to argue. Like with the Texans fan I talked to down here in Houston yesterday. At the end of his mini-rant I pointed out he had an Astros hat on .
This guy gets it.
 

Van Everyman

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The Patriots conspiracies (and the NFL in general) has turned into this weird proxy for our culture’s refusal to accept responsibility for anything that goes wrong. Bill may be the only guy I have never heard make excuses – with every other team it’s always somebody else’s fault.

This probably started with the Tuck Rule but sort of crystallized for me during Deflategate, as if we hadn’t just put 40+ points on the board. Then there was that Yahoo Sports article with the theory that the video scoreboard in Gillette was constructed to give the Patriots a replay advantage. That article also had the warm Gatorade stuff IIRC. I’m pretty sure the home opener the following year (2015) against the Steelers was HeadsetGate with Tomlin chirping.

It’s more than “They hate us cuz they ain’t us” – more like no one can accept that the Patriots just run circles around every other team.

I mean, I get it. If you look at the years the Pats have lost since 2013 (2013/2015/2017), it’s pretty clear that given even average health luck the Patriots will pretty much win every single year (and even then will get to the AFCCG). So the other teams are pretty much forced to either acknowledge that they’re not even in the same league as the Patriots or that there’s some nefarious plot.
 

Marciano490

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BaseballJones

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What in the history of Goodell-era NFL investigations would lead one to think there’s a relationship between gathering relevant information and rendering judgement?
I’m really trying to figure out what the internal conversations in the NFL office were once someone actually walked them through the ideal gas law and explained that it’s really as simple as that. I wonder, honestly, if they just didn’t believe the laws of physics work on footballs, or if they said oh yeah that makes sense but....Spygate and Dorito dink, so... suspension and loss of draft picks.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I’m really trying to figure out what the internal conversations in the NFL office were once someone actually walked them through the ideal gas law and explained that it’s really as simple as that. I wonder, honestly, if they just didn’t believe the laws of physics work on footballs, or if they said oh yeah that makes sense but....Spygate and Dorito dink, so... suspension and loss of draft picks.
I think the most likely is some combination of "we can't back down now" and "the politics of this are very challenging, a bunch of owners expect there to be a penalty here"

I am pretty confident the NFL's well-paid lawyers and consultants told them the reality of the situation; they just decided not to respond to it.
 

McBride11

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Not having lived in Boston for almost 20 years... im more shocked ordway still has a job and or hasnt had a stroke or heart attack yet.
 

Archer1979

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I've always viewed the anti-Patriot bias as an old money vs. new money thing. The old guard in the Rooneys and the Maras can't comprehend how a relative newcomer to the sport can come in and pretty much take over by simply outplaying them. The Patriots' role in the NFL is to be doormats with occasional flashes of brilliance. This twenty years of dominance is not how it is to be. The conceit that the New England organization is cheating is deeply rooted in the idea that they (NE) can't be that much better than everyone else overall as it would mean that they (NYG and Pitt) are in a higher class than they. It simply can't be true.
 
Feb 8, 2017
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Not having lived in Boston for almost 20 years... im more shocked ordway still has a job and or hasnt had a stroke or heart attack yet.
Fun fact: He collapsed in the Gillette stadium parking lot tailgating a few years back, in what was widely feared to be a heart attack or stroke. Turns out it was just a bleeding ulcer.

Source:
 

Carmine Hose

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With this latest media-fuel anti-Patriots saga, it would be nice if anyone would step back and ask themselves, in a moment of intellectual honesty, do they really think something nefarious was occurring? Is there any real way to connect any dots to what they want us to believe?

I know they are not honest, but just pretending they are, we are to believe that:

* The Patriots football operations devised a plan to have Kraft Sports Productions film a high-angle, non-zoom view of the Cincinnati Bengals sideline during a Week 14 game in Cleveland.
* They disguised this operation as a supposed feature on an advanced scout for the team's "Do Your Job" entertainment video series, which is in its second "season" of issuance. They received permission from the Browns to be at the facility to do so.
* This subterfuge was so necessary to the Patriots' success that they chose to do it only against one of their 13 opponents in 2019, the 1-12 Cincinnati Bengals. I mean, they could have asked any team permission to shoot at their stadium for this episode. Why not the Ravens or Chiefs or Texans, whom they actually lost to? The Patriots could win 10 of their first 13 games, but could only get that 11th against the team with the first pick in the 2020 draft by watching video from behind their sideline the prior week (where uncannily half of the stadium can view in plain sight).
 

CantKeepmedown

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Yeah, you can't ask those questions and expect to get anywhere near an honest, intelligent answer. Like BJ said, of course something was going on. This is what they do.

I've heard things like, "They've been doing it all season. This was the first time they got caught" and "If this is common, how come no other teams have been caught doing it?" And of course, "the dynasty was built on cheating and fraud. It started with Spygate, continued with DFG, and now they are doing it this way." When you try and talk about the benefits they actually got from these incidents, you get "why did they get punished if there was no benefit?" It's exhausting.

The only shitty thing (or maybe it's actually a good thing) is that it's prevented some decent banter and debate with opposing fans about the Patriots. The minute "yeah, but they are cheaters" comes up, I typically bow it and call it a night.
 

reggiecleveland

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There are lots of sour grapes myths about dynasties.

I hate to defend the Habs, but the myth they had an unfair advantage in signing french Canadian payers persists. In reality they were a big market team that spent lots of money on minor league teams, so had many more players ot choose from before the draf was instituted. The prejudice against French speakers on other teams had as much to do with lack of signing those guys as any rule. Since the Habs had poured money into a developing the minor league system, when the draft came about NHL teams could now draft players from teams the Habs had owned and built up. So the NHL gave them a chance to draft normally or pick Quebecois players before the draft. In the short time this existed they never picked any player that amounted to much with those picks.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Not sure how to respond to that. I don't think my "priorities" really matter here and our Superbowls have an asterisk in the minds of the football viewing public. I think that's largely a product of irresponsible reporting and some really dumb conduct on the part of the team.That's a shame, and it makes following the NFL less rewarding. Sorry if that is not a popular opinion.
Fully agree with you. It sucks having to defend them
Lol, ‘why?’ to both?
Yeah, you can't ask those questions and expect to get anywhere near an honest, intelligent answer. Like BJ said, of course something was going on. This is what they do.

I've heard things like, "They've been doing it all season. This was the first time they got caught" and "If this is common, how come no other teams have been caught doing it?" And of course, "the dynasty was built on cheating and fraud. It started with Spygate, continued with DFG, and now they are doing it this way." When you try and talk about the benefits they actually got from these incidents, you get "why did they get punished if there was no benefit?" It's exhausting.

The only shitty thing (or maybe it's actually a good thing) is that it's prevented some decent banter and debate with opposing fans about the Patriots. The minute "yeah, but they are cheaters" comes up, I typically bow it and call it a night.
Where are you "hearing things like this"? Honest question. Like in your social circle or on TV? Because if it actually bothers you, there's solutions to both of those.
 

tims4wins

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Lol, ‘why?’ to both?

Where are you "hearing things like this"? Honest question. Like in your social circle or on TV? Because if it actually bothers you, there's solutions to both of those.
It's just annoying. Wearing Pats gear or whatever in an airport and hearing cheaters. At a work conference last week hearing oh they cheated again... or "do you really believe that" when I explained the Do Your Job thing. The 80s Niners fans didn't have to hear that shit. Or the 90s Cowboys fans. Or the 70s Steelers fans. Or across sports, the 90s Bulls fans. Or 90s MFY fans. 80s Lakers fans. And on and on and on. When you have the best run in the history of the sport, other teams fans should hate your team, no doubt. But they should also respect them. Like I respected the shit out of the 90s MFY teams even though I hated them. I wished the Sox were those teams. There was no cheating scandal that I could bring up.
 

CantKeepmedown

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Lol, ‘why?’ to both?

Where are you "hearing things like this"? Honest question. Like in your social circle or on TV? Because if it actually bothers you, there's solutions to both of those.
It's mostly my own fault delving into twitter replies or comment sections. Admittedly, I only read 4-5 and then laugh and move on. And I have a few friends in my social circle who are pretty good trolls on twitter. To make it clear, it's not keeping me up at night trying to figure out ways to defend the Pats. It was more of just a response to Carmine who mentioned trying to talk rationally to people.
 

troparra

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With this latest media-fuel anti-Patriots saga, it would be nice if anyone would step back and ask themselves, in a moment of intellectual honesty, do they really think something nefarious was occurring? Is there any real way to connect any dots to what they want us to believe?

I know they are not honest, but just pretending they are, we are to believe that:

* The Patriots football operations devised a plan to have Kraft Sports Productions film a high-angle, non-zoom view of the Cincinnati Bengals sideline during a Week 14 game in Cleveland.
* They disguised this operation as a supposed feature on an advanced scout for the team's "Do Your Job" entertainment video series, which is in its second "season" of issuance. They received permission from the Browns to be at the facility to do so.
* This subterfuge was so necessary to the Patriots' success that they chose to do it only against one of their 13 opponents in 2019, the 1-12 Cincinnati Bengals. I mean, they could have asked any team permission to shoot at their stadium for this episode. Why not the Ravens or Chiefs or Texans, whom they actually lost to? The Patriots could win 10 of their first 13 games, but could only get that 11th against the team with the first pick in the 2020 draft by watching video from behind their sideline the prior week (where uncannily half of the stadium can view in plain sight).
I was listening to Steve Torre and Danny Kanell yesterday on XM. According to them, yes, we are to believe all of those things.
 

joe dokes

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It's just annoying. Wearing Pats gear or whatever in an airport and hearing cheaters. At a work conference last week hearing oh they cheated again... or "do you really believe that" when I explained the Do Your Job thing. The 80s Niners fans didn't have to hear that shit. Or the 90s Cowboys fans. Or the 70s Steelers fans. Or across sports, the 90s Bulls fans. Or 90s MFY fans. 80s Lakers fans. And on and on and on. When you have the best run in the history of the sport, other teams fans should hate your team, no doubt. But they should also respect them. Like I respected the shit out of the 90s MFY teams even though I hated them. I wished the Sox were those teams. There was no cheating scandal that I could bring up.
80s Niners fans get to hear the owner discuss prison food. At least Kraft beat the rap.
 

bsj

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It's just annoying. Wearing Pats gear or whatever in an airport and hearing cheaters. At a work conference last week hearing oh they cheated again... or "do you really believe that" when I explained the Do Your Job thing. The 80s Niners fans didn't have to hear that shit. Or the 90s Cowboys fans. Or the 70s Steelers fans. Or across sports, the 90s Bulls fans. Or 90s MFY fans. 80s Lakers fans. And on and on and on. When you have the best run in the history of the sport, other teams fans should hate your team, no doubt. But they should also respect them. Like I respected the shit out of the 90s MFY teams even though I hated them. I wished the Sox were those teams. There was no cheating scandal that I could bring up.
I agree with you
 

RedOctober3829

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What the hell? If what I'm interpreting from this article is true, the NFL is actively trying to establish a connection between KSP and football operations and are frustrated that they can't. It's as if they want to find or make up a reason to punish the Patriots. It's pretty hard after reading that article to not think the NFL has it out for the Patriots.

"The Spygate 2 investigation began in earnest (and right here in Boston) within the past week.
Per multiple sources with knowledge of the situation, NFL investigators spent time in recent days interviewing members of the Patriots organization, more than a week after a videographer shot images of the Bengals’ sideline during a game in Cleveland. The Patriots contend that the video crew had no connection to the team’s football operations.
League investigators also collected devices from certain individuals, for the purposes of attempting to establish a connection to the team’s football operations. As one source explained it, there’s a sense that investigators want to make that connection, and a perception that they are showing frustration when unable to tie the video crew to the football employees.
The investigation continues, with no specific timeline for concluding the work and/or making a decision. If the NFL cannot establish a link to New England’s football operations, the penalty should be minimal. If a connection is established, the punishment could be severe, if it turns out that the team’s football operations were using the video crew as cover for gathering information.
For now, there’s no proof of any such tie — and no reason to currently believe there will be one."

 

Mystic Merlin

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I’m sure that’s true.

It’s also not bad for them to look like they want to fuck the Patriots but couldn’t do it or, at least, are taking it seriously. Goodell and co. are performing for the other owners here.
 

djbayko

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I’m sure that’s true.

It’s also not bad for them to look like they want to fuck the Patriots but couldn’t do it or, at least, are taking it seriously. Goodell and co. are performing for the other owners here.
The thing is, they’ll always be able to find and misinterpret *something* if they really want to. Remember the “deflate” text.
 

BaseballJones

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The thing is, they’ll always be able to find and misinterpret *something* if they really want to. Remember the “deflate” text.
Well the scout works for Belichick so of course there's a "link" between this video and football operations. Isn't that all Goodell needs to suspend BB and take away first round picks? After DFG, honestly, how can *anyone* say he needs more than that?
 

lexrageorge

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The initial reporting was that the league was going to conclude this quickly with the Pats likely getting a token punishment. Obviously, some owners screamed bloody murder, and for whatever reason the "the Bengals are livid" quotes kept coming up on the local sports talk networks.

So, yes, the league investigators are looking for something that likely doesn't exist. If they don't find anything (which is 99% certain), no one in the league office will know what to do. And don't forget the investigators are almost certainly Jets fans.

Well the scout works for Belichick so of course there's a "link" between this video and football operations. Isn't that all Goodell needs to suspend BB and take away first round picks? After DFG, honestly, how can *anyone* say he needs more than that?
I'm guessing the league has skeletons. As long as the owners all agree to play along, everything is hunky-dory. Kraft was willing to accept the Spygate punishment because it was all on Belichick, who admitted he was wrong. Kraft was a bit more passive-aggressive with the Deflategate nonsense, but he was outnumbered 31-1, and Brady's suspension appeal was going to be handled by the NFLPA anyway, so Kraft was able to play both sides.

But even Kraft has a limit. Suspending Belichick when zero evidence exists will exceed that limit. Deflategate had the texts by idiots, and also had Brady destroying his phone while refusing to allow the league to see his texts (for good reason, but still a problem for him). This episode literally has ... nothing.

I will say that while I was originally predicting just a fine, right now it appears the ultimate punishment could be anywhere from a fine ... to whatever fantasy punishment the clowns in the media can dream up.
 

Seels

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I'm going to guess the punishment for this, regardless of what it is, is dropped between 48 and 72 hours before the Pats Chiefs or Pats Ravens game.

These things always have a way of working out this way.
 

JimD

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So, instead of burying this embarrassing 'scandal' in a Christmas Eve news dump, the Park Avenue geniuses are going to keep it alive and ensure that one of the marquee teams in their playoff tournament will remain under a cloud (in the minds of most of the media and fans). It's amazing this sport remains so lucrative and popular with such a gaggle of blithering idiots running the show.
 

Seels

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Can't forget the phony Moss papers served before SB42.
Tomase and the initial "Pats taped 36"
Deflategate
The Seth Wickersham piece

and I'm sure a few things I'm missing. They're just waiting for the timing to put this out.
 

Ed Hillel

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One of these guys probably deleted sexts to his significant other before handing over his phone, which will turn into “what was in the deleted texts???”
 

joe dokes

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One of these guys probably deleted sexts to his significant other before handing over his phone, which will turn into “what was in the deleted texts???”
"I was telling my wife that I once met Commissioner Goodell at a party and that he ask me to unzip his fly with my teeth."
 

Harry Hooper

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I'm going to guess the punishment for this, regardless of what it is, is dropped between 48 and 72 hours before the Pats Chiefs or Pats Ravens game.

These things always have a way of working out this way.
You can be sure any official news (or leaks) will come out right before BB and Brady have manadtory press conferences. That's a consistent practice from NFL HQ.
 

BaseballJones

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In the past few weeks, the NFL has apologized to various teams for officials' errors. You know what team has NOT received an apology from the NFL? That's right, the fine folks at 1 Patriot Place, for the horrific mistakes made by the Bogar crew in the KC game.

Not a single peep.
 

Bowhemian

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No link, but there is a picture out there tonight of a Ravens coach on the sideline today with a Bluetooth thing in his ear from today.