2020 Pats: Bengals Coach Implies Patriots Taping Play Signals

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Andy Moog! Andy God Damn Moog!
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Yeah I’m done with this league. “Filming the sideline the whole first quarter” for what body language? Nobody is giving signs anymore. Plus I could buy a ticket to the game and record the sideline the whole time on my phone, who gives a shit. But no, now watch we’re going to get another 6 months of this bull shit. Fuck that this product isn’t worth the aggravation.
 

tims4wins

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If the Pats wanted to tape signals wouldn’t they have just bought a ticket to the game and had someone tape from the stands???? Cmon guys don’t take the bait. They clearly know what is legal and not legal WRT this issue.
 

Mystic Merlin

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There’s a few possibilities (in terms of accuracy and spin) with Russini’s reporting, but she’s definitely pot committed to this being a thing.

Notably, Schefter hasn’t weighed in on the alleged contents of the tape, only that there is a tape. Not sure what to make of that, as by my impression he’s not typically scooped and is fast to confirm stories if he’s beaten. She could have him scooped, or he’s shaky on the reliability of whatever info he has (which could be from the same or different sources).
 

lexrageorge

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Belichick is right to come out and say it's all a bunch of BS. He's still trying to toe a line and be diplomatic about what still seems like to be a misunderstanding on the part of the Bengals.

If the NFL gets stupid, I hope the Krafts go nuclear.
 

lexrageorge

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If the Pats wanted to tape signals wouldn’t they have just bought a ticket to the game and had someone tape from the stands???? Cmon guys don’t take the bait. They clearly know what is legal and not legal WRT this issue.
What signals? Teams don't use signals anymore.
 

nattysez

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BB's usual approach is to not dignify things he thinks are media-generated nonsense with any comment. Instead, he's doing a whole explanation about this - "we don't see their tapes," "what we do on the football side is totally legal," etc.
 

pappymojo

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BB's usual approach is to not dignify things he thinks are media-generated nonsense with any comment. Instead, he's doing a whole explanation about this - "we don't see their tapes," "what we do on the football side is totally legal," etc.
Almost as if media-generated bullshit has blown up in his face before.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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People think this team has criminally masterminded their way to success and yet are also the dumbest criminals imaginable. The mind reels.

Literally nothing coming anonymously and/or coyly from team/media/league sources is credible on the issue of the Patriots. These people are damaged.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Isn't there still some signaling that happens from the sidelines? I feel like when the broadcast does those split shots of Mayo and Mini Belichick that they're often using hand signals of some sort.

If for example you were a DB coach and you wanted to signal something specifically to your group relaying that message through the D coordinator and the player with the green dot is highly inefficient.
 

tims4wins

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BB's usual approach is to not dignify things he thinks are media-generated nonsense with any comment. Instead, he's doing a whole explanation about this - "we don't see their tapes," "what we do on the football side is totally legal," etc.
This wasn’t a press conference though it was his weekly WEEI appearance. He is much different on those interviews.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Isn't there still some signaling that happens from the sidelines? I feel like when the broadcast does those split shots of Mayo and Mini Belichick that they're often using hand signals of some sort.

If for example you were a DB coach and you wanted to signal something specifically to your group relaying that message through the D coordinator and the player with the green dot is highly inefficient.
Having the production crew of a television show tangentially associated with your football team running your supposed sign stealing operation in one stadium against your worst opponent of the season sounds highly inefficient.
 

scottyno

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If the Pats wanted to tape signals wouldn’t they have just bought a ticket to the game and had someone tape from the stands???? Cmon guys don’t take the bait. They clearly know what is legal and not legal WRT this issue.
Isn't taping from the press box fine anyway?
 

Mugsy's Jock

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EL Jeffe

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If the Patriota tv crew taped the sidelines, absolutely no one is going to think they did it on their own. Nor should they. If this happened, the book is getting thrown. And it should be.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I wonder if Bill knows what's on the tapes.

If he does, I would have hoped the response would be "I understand that all that is on the tapes is something about our advance scout."

If this turns into a question whether the football ops people knew that other Patriots people were taping a sideline, and why, it's 100 percent going to turn into a thing. Even if taping from the press box is ok. Because if they taped from the press box after getting a credential to do a production piece, that's going to look untoward in people's eyes, even though they could have sent 100 people into the stands to do the same thing.
 

Silverdude2167

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If the Patriota tv crew taped the sidelines, absolutely no one is going to think they did it on their own. Nor should they. If this happened, the book is getting thrown. And it should be.
I mean what they did is not against the rules...so what book should be thrown at them? The made up only counts if it's the Pats rulebook?
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I mean what they did is not against the rules...so what book should be thrown at them? The made up only counts if it's the Pats rulebook?
It's all speculation. But if they got into the press box using a cover story and then taped from the press box of another team for an opponent they were playing the following week -- especially given the history -- they have a problem.
 

BaseballJones

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After Spygate, ANY taping of opponents signals or sideline by the Patriots will be met with very harsh discipline. We all know this.
 

EL Jeffe

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I mean what they did is not against the rules...so what book should be thrown at them? The made up only counts if it's the Pats rulebook?
Teams are allowed to tape the other team's sideline from the press box? You sure about that?
 

RedOctober3829

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I wonder if Bill knows what's on the tapes.

If he does, I would have hoped the response would be "I understand that all that is on the tapes is something about our advance scout."

If this turns into a question whether the football ops people knew that other Patriots people were taping a sideline, and why, it's 100 percent going to turn into a thing. Even if taping from the press box is ok. Because if they taped from the press box after getting a credential to do a production piece, that's going to look untoward in people's eyes, even though they could have sent 100 people into the stands to do the same thing.
He doesn't know what goes on with Kraft Sports Productions nor should he. This is all a bunch of bullshit.
 

lexrageorge

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There is context that seems to be missing by the "book will be thrown" crowd: the video crew was taping a production piece about a scout. Which is 100% legal, as the video team got clearance from the Browns. So far, nearly every time more context has been added, the situation looks more innocent. With one notable exception being a Jets fan with a Twitter account.

Teams are allowed to tape the other team's sideline from the press box? You sure about that?
The infamous rule clarification a while back said that videotaping was allowed from a covered location, which would include the press box.
 

E5 Yaz

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They are only obligated to tell the home team's PR which they did.
No, that's either the responsibility of the Browns (who were hosting), or the league. Not the Patriots. The Bengals are just dumb.
Sorry, but that's technicality bullshit.
A team that already has much of the league suspicious of them for whatever you thought of Spygate is having a team employee bring a video camera into the press box. It doesn't hurt anyone to let the league and the Bengals know ahead of time, just so that no one believes something's fishy.

Like I said earlier, had league security known about this, they could have kept the Bengals from throwing more suspicion on it.

Did the Patriots do everything they were obligated to do? Sure.

Did they do everything they should have done to cover all the bases? No.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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With one notable exception being a Jets fan with a Twitter account.
Well, a Jets fan that is also a reporter for ESPN and a host of one of their most significant NFL shows.

I hope she's full of shit. I would really like a Shefter tweet that says "I am told the tapes do not show the sideline" or "the sideline images focus on the advance scout who was on the field." Or something along those lines.

Because legal or not, if the tapes by a Patriots employee show images of coaches of only one team and it's the team we're playing next week, and they were obtained by a guy who was supposed to be there filming an NFL production, this is a thing. And nobody is going to believe that Kraft Productions was interested in the upcoming opponents' sideline stuff all on their own for some puff piece or internet docu-piece. I don't think even I'd believe it absent some very convincing explanation.
 

RedOctober3829

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Sorry, but that's technicality bullshit.
A team that already has much of the league suspicious of them for whatever you thought of Spygate is having a team employee bring a video camera into the press box. It doesn't hurt anyone to let the league and the Bengals know ahead of time, just so that no one believes something's fishy.

Like I said earlier, had league security known about this, they could have kept the Bengals from throwing more suspicion on it.

Did the Patriots do everything they were obligated to do? Sure.

Did they do everything they should have done to cover all the bases? No.
They did everything they were supposed to do. They got credentialed by the Browns to do what they were doing so obviously the Browns were OK with it. It's not the Patriots' job to get permission from the visiting team to film their own people for a private project they were doing. Spygate was over a decade ago.
 

lexrageorge

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Sorry, but that's technicality bullshit.
A team that already has much of the league suspicious of them for whatever you thought of Spygate is having a team employee bring a video camera into the press box. It doesn't hurt anyone to let the league and the Bengals know ahead of time, just so that no one believes something's fishy.

Like I said earlier, had league security known about this, they could have kept the Bengals from throwing more suspicion on it.

Did the Patriots do everything they were obligated to do? Sure.

Did they do everything they should have done to cover all the bases? No.
We're talking about a couple of people in the production team that had nothing to do with Spygate, which was 12 fucking years ago. It's not a technicality; they really didn't do anything wrong. Similar things have probably happened many times in the past and had gone unreported.
 

Cotillion

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This will become a thing if you see it on the 6 o'clock news tomorrow.

It shouldn't be. The Pats did nothing wrong. They followed the book.

But as we all know, the book means nothing per Spygate, Deflategate, NFL ignoring their own DV minimums, etc.

So we just wait to see where Roger's Wheel of Justice lands.
 

lexrageorge

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Well, a Jets fan that is also a reporter for ESPN and a host of one of their most significant NFL shows.
Neither of which qualifies her report as being necessarily accurate.

I hope she's full of shit. I would really like a Shefter tweet that says "I am told the tapes do not show the sideline" or "the sideline images focus on the advance scout who was on the field." Or something along those lines.

Because legal or not, if the tapes by a Patriots employee show images of coaches of only one team and it's the team we're playing next week, and they were obtained by a guy who was supposed to be there filming an NFL production, this is a thing. And nobody is going to believe that Kraft Productions was interested in the upcoming opponents' sideline stuff all on their own for some puff piece or internet docu-piece. I don't think even I'd believe it absent some very convincing explanation.
The alternative explanation is that the Pats decided to record a video of the sideline, despite the fact that coaches and teams don't use hand signals anymore. And to do this, they decided to come up with some cover story and involve the security of a 3rd team in the process.
 

Ed Hillel

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“You’ll have to wait to see the show” is an all-time classic Belichick line.
 

E5 Yaz

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They did everything they were supposed to do.
And I'm saying that that is not enough in this circumstance.

What's the talking point today on this? Spygate, the Sequel.

Now, imagine for just a moment that out of common courtesy they alerted the Bengals to what was going to happen.

Are we having this discussion today? ... Most likely not.

If they had alerted the league, would this be discussed today. ... Most likely not.

So, again, hiding behind "they did what they were supposed to do" is technically correct.

They should have done more.
 

EL Jeffe

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There is context that seems to be missing by the "book will be thrown" crowd: the video crew was taping a production piece about a scout. Which is 100% legal, as the video team got clearance from the Browns. So far, nearly every time more context has been added, the situation looks more innocent. With one notable exception being a Jets fan with a Twitter account.



The infamous rule clarification a while back said that videotaping was allowed from a covered location, which would include the press box.
I'm pretty sure the rule clarification indicated that a team cannot film the other team's sidelines. It sounds like Belichick is saying if this happened the football ops had nothing to do with it. Why would anyone believe that? The Patriots tv people just decided to film the sidelines just because? They came up with the idea? That checks out?
 

lexrageorge

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I'm pretty sure the rule clarification indicated that a team cannot film the other team's sidelines. It sounds like Belichick is saying if this happened the football ops had nothing to do with it. Why would anyone believe that? The Patriots tv people just decided to film the sidelines just because? They came up with the idea? That checks out?
The rule clarification was about video location; had nothing at all to do with what was being videotaped. See:


And you're going to believe the Pats would be stupid enough to come up with a cover story and involve a third team just to tape sideline signals that don't exist?

Belichick probably didn't even know this taping happened, in which case what he said on EEI would be perfectly consistent with the filming being done by a different department. Belichick doesn't run the team's PR department.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Neither of which qualifies her report as being necessarily accurate.
For sure. And every minute that goes by without Schefter or Reiss or one of the other plugged in people posting something similar from their league sources -- and you can be sure they are beating the bushes -- is good. But I was just making the point that she does have something to lose by being completely wrong, in the credibility department. Unlike a random Jets fan.
 

Soxy

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I can't believe I'm falling for the banana in the tailpipe, but, "we are 100% in compliance to the best of my knowledge of every single rule that we're responsible for" isn't a great look for a guy who generally doesn't give the media anything.

"To the best of my knowledge?" Yeah, don't say that. Even if it's just a poor choice of words, it doesn't read well. Instead, say something like: "We train/teach/coach all of our scouts on what the rules are and how we need to comply with them." Rare media misstep from BB.

Maybe I'm being overly harsh, but this dude never gives the media anything. He'll probably look back and think, "Why the fuck did I say that?"
 

Jed Zeppelin

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For sure. And every minute that goes by without Schefter or Reiss or one of the other plugged in people posting something similar from their league sources -- and you can be sure they are beating the bushes -- is good. But I was just making the point that she does have something to lose by being completely wrong, in the credibility department. Unlike a random Jets fan.
Not really. Nobody remembers Mort’s BS report except Pats fans. She has nothing to lose by being coy.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Not really. Nobody remembers Mort’s BS report except Pats fans. She has nothing to lose by being coy.
Well maybe, but I doubt she's banking on that. She's being more than just coy. She reported that a source told her that they taped the sideline for a quarter after the production piece was over and that the employee when confronted asked to be allowed to delete the tape. The source is either correct or isn't. She will have to live with the facts. But this is specific.
 

Cotillion

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Actually, we are going to need a copy of the current Game Operations Manual (not the rulebook) to know whether it's legal or not.

Anyone got one?
 

Cotillion

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Well maybe, but I doubt she's banking on that. She's being more than just coy. She reported that a source told her that they taped the sideline for a quarter after the production piece was over and that the employee when confronted asked to be allowed to delete the tape. The source is either correct or isn't. She will have to live with the facts. But this is specific.
I mean, what's going to happen to her if she is wrong?

What happened to anyone that was wrong on Spygate? Deflategate? etc?

Can you remember the last time a reporter career perished for relying on what a source told them?

I mean... Tomase still had a career.
 

steveluck7

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But I was just making the point that she does have something to lose by being completely wrong, in the credibility department. Unlike a random Jets fan.
Does she, though? Reporters are wrong all the time. I highly doubt she completely fabricated her latest reports. It’s possible she has poor sources who overstated what they saw.
Her profile won’t change at ESPN if her report turns out to be wrong
 

E5 Yaz

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Well maybe, but I doubt she's banking on that. She's being more than just coy. She reported that a source told her that they taped the sideline for a quarter after the production piece was over and that the employee when confronted asked to be allowed to delete the tape. The source is either correct or isn't. She will have to live with the facts. But this is specific.
If she's right about that ...
 

Ed Hillel

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If she's right about that ...
She also said the employee was taped begging to delete it. Either that’s true, or it isn’t. If it isn’t, she should probably be fired. If it is, whoever sent the person there to tape should be.
 

EL Jeffe

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The rule clarification was about video location; had nothing at all to do with what was being videotaped. See:


And you're going to believe the Pats would be stupid enough to come up with a cover story and involve a third team just to tape sideline signals that don't exist?

Belichick probably didn't even know this taping happened, in which case what he said on EEI would be perfectly consistent with the filming being done by a different department. Belichick doesn't run the team's PR department.
"Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines." I read that as you can't tape the other team's sideline.

As for the cover story:
View: https://twitter.com/johnbreech/status/1204146996430417923?s=19
 

RedOctober3829

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"Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines." I read that as you can't tape the other team's sideline.

As for the cover story:
View: https://twitter.com/johnbreech/status/1204146996430417923?s=19
Except they, you know, actually have team shows.

 

Hoya81

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They’ve been running these mini- documentaries about the team support staff (trainers, chefs etc) all season, its not like it’s a fake documentary.