2020 Pats: Bengals Coach Implies Patriots Taping Play Signals
- Thread starter CaptainLaddie
- Start date
If you're just some camera guy just doing your job filming shit and then you get confronted by someone who wants to confiscate your film and maybe tells you that what you're doing is against league rules you might shit your pants and ask for something stupid like just erasing the footage so it doesn't become a big deal.
Because thebgame was going to half and the Patriots release was timed so that it could be addressed at a prime moment for NFL fans tuning in. It also basically apologized foto the Bengals and League for the situation.
To me, that signals that there were communications between the league and the team
I think I remember this from law school (don’t laugh):
I think misappropriation turns on whether it’s an individual likeness that’s used (not ok) versus “one likeness amongst many” (ie, a crowd shot) that’s being used. The former suggests the person endorses the product, whereas the latter can’t be thought to suggest that.
“Hey, what are you doing here???”
“We’re shooting the advance scout here at work as part of a series of documentary segments.”
“You’re not allowed to film the field from the press box!!!”
“Really? It’s just B roll footage. We can delete it if you’d like.”
(Dials phone) “I caught an evil Patriots camera person spying and he’s begging to be allowed to delete the footage!!!”
Reading this disaster of a thread was worth it for this post.
Spaulding Smails. Love it.
Yeah, it all seemed coordinated. The league likely reviewed the statement before release, as well.
I cannot even begin to think of a reason why you're going to be right about this. I mean, I really hope you are, but have you seriously not been paying attention to how the NFL handles the Patriots? They suspended Tom Brady - who otherwise had an absolutely IMPECCABLE record - and docked the Patriots a first and fourth round picks, plus a massive fine, for what again? Oh for the LAWS OF PHYSICS.
Yeah, as is usually the case, the reaction of the other owners will probably dictate what direction this goes. A drunk dial by Irsay at 2am to Goodell is enough to send this off the rails.
why did this thread double in length in the past 3 hours?
if this really does blow up, it's a fascinating case of vitriol.
if this really does blow up, it's a fascinating case of vitriol.
This is the hope. Things were much more muddled last time around. Hell, the Mona Lisa Vito press conference that outside observers found very strange, etc.
I think it also has to do with reasonable expectations. At a game, you know you might be shown on film or live TV. I helped a friend get her face blurred when she was in a bar where they were filming a reality TV show, because there was no expectation of publicity for a night out and she never signed a waiver. I was walking through Grand Central once and asked to sign a waiver because they'd been filming a show and didn't want to blur my face. I obviously wasn't expecting to be on film taking the train to work.
We‘re pretty far in the weeds on this but the NFL standard ticket appears to give a license to the NFL and the home team. Not the other 31 clubs.
That said, the NFL can give your license it it’s “designees.” My guess of how this works is that if a visiting team wants to use content they need to get permission from the league or the visiting club. This is probably either freely given or it is already the subject of an agreement among the clubs that we don’t have access to, so it’s terms may or may not cover docs being made by teams at games in which they aren’t involved.
Here is the language for whatever it is worth. To go back to the point I was trying to make, documentary film makers need to be aware of a ton of things, Everything from when the bud light logo on the facade can be used, to showing minors in the audience, to military or United States trademarks. There are surely rules of the road here. NFL prohibitions must be part of their understandings.
“Ticket holder grants to the Club, the NFL, and their respective designees the irrevocable permission to use his or her voice, image, and/or likeness in any and all media now or hereafter existing in connection with all or any part of the football game or related events, for any purpose whatsoever, including the commercial purposes of the NFL, Club, their respective sponsors, licensees, advertisers and/or broadcasters, without further permission or compensation and hereby waives any and all claims or potential claims relating to such use.”
If the tape showed anything blatantly obvious like zooming in on coaches this story would be getting reported much differently.
Makes sense. Pats wouldn’t bust in on a MNF game unless they cleared it with the league. ARod in 2007 OTOH pissed off MLB with his announcement during the World Series.
Either the Dodgers have the right under their license to give a license to the producers or it was filmed in a way that close ups were only of actors and long range shots were such that no individuals could be identified.
Truth is stranger than fiction.
The thread title should be "Filming spandex-clad butts".
Except for the random guy who was acquitted of murder when he was identified in that scene.
If you’re filming a documentary about what a scout does at a game, you’re going to film what he’s looking at.
I would think this is relatively common and there are best practices in place.Having said that, that there are still rules about filming what can be seen by a fan in the stands is dumb.
This story is dumb. This league is dumb. Our o-line is dumb.
I would think this is relatively common and there are best practices in place.Having said that, that there are still rules about filming what can be seen by a fan in the stands is dumb.
This story is dumb. This league is dumb. Our o-line is dumb.
Camera guidelines for the gen pop are totally different than credentialed media. The terms and conditions on the back of a ticket are completely different than press/field pass legalese. Come on SoSh you're better than this. This is a huge over reaction.
Exactly. The rules are dumb. The rule about football PSI is dumb. Wanna know why the PSI rule is 12.5-13.5? Because Wilson says that is the optimal range of pressure. Not because anything above or below would be some kind of advantage. Literally the ball manufacturer was saying the opposite - anything outside of that range is suboptimal. It is all so, so dumb.
He actually walks right by Larry, right? I can’t remember the documentary well. But, yeah, there must be some implied consent or something. Or maybe they made an announcement at the game?
SVP off the White List?Scott Van Pelt’s grave tone for the upcoming Sportscenter story does not given me hope this will all be a bunch of nothing
The rules may be dumb but they shouldn’t be all that hard to follow. Particularly after you have been burned twice by said stupid rules.
I'm so fucking tired of this shit with the NFL, so fucking tired.
And on the one hand I understand why a lot in here are saying "the Patriots should know they have to be extra careful with everything they do." But on the other hand, it kind of feels like victim blaming to me (for lack of a much less dramatic term). I mean, why should the Patriots have to operate with kid gloves, why should it just be accepted that the NFL and ESPN can paint them as supervillains whenever they want?
No need to tell me that that's just reality, I'm aware. Doesn't make it less bullshit.
And on the one hand I understand why a lot in here are saying "the Patriots should know they have to be extra careful with everything they do." But on the other hand, it kind of feels like victim blaming to me (for lack of a much less dramatic term). I mean, why should the Patriots have to operate with kid gloves, why should it just be accepted that the NFL and ESPN can paint them as supervillains whenever they want?
No need to tell me that that's just reality, I'm aware. Doesn't make it less bullshit.
I mean, I'm tired of the NFL too, but we should probably wait for them to do something stupid on this issue before we lament them being stupid on this issue.
Reasons for optimism:
1.) The team issued a statement admitting what happened and everyone involved is cooperating with the investigation.
2.) There does not appear to be any attempt or intent to gain competitive advantage. The team's statement makes perfect sense and is consistent with what's been reported. The team has done several episodes of the documentary already, so it's not like the team's explanation was just fabricated out of thin air to cover things up.
3.) There is no "You guys are fucked" exclamation from a distraught Mike Kensil. No rumors of loss of draft picks (which was in the first tweet about Deflategate by a Colts beat reporter) or other punishments. There's no rumors of taped walkthroughs or other crap (one exception noted below).
4.) The team's claims are easily verifiable upon a quick viewing of the film.
5.) The NFL and the Pats seem to be on the same page so far.
Reasons for concern:
1.) We don't know what's on the film yet. I do agree that if the film showed close ups of Bengals play sheets, coaches sideline conferences, etc., it could be bad news. I'd say this is highly unlikely, but cannot be ruled out.
2.) A rule violation did occur. While probably minor, it's still a violation.
3.) It's the NFL. 'Nuff sed.
4.) The unconfirmed rumor that the video guy asked for the film to be deleted.
1.) The team issued a statement admitting what happened and everyone involved is cooperating with the investigation.
2.) There does not appear to be any attempt or intent to gain competitive advantage. The team's statement makes perfect sense and is consistent with what's been reported. The team has done several episodes of the documentary already, so it's not like the team's explanation was just fabricated out of thin air to cover things up.
3.) There is no "You guys are fucked" exclamation from a distraught Mike Kensil. No rumors of loss of draft picks (which was in the first tweet about Deflategate by a Colts beat reporter) or other punishments. There's no rumors of taped walkthroughs or other crap (one exception noted below).
4.) The team's claims are easily verifiable upon a quick viewing of the film.
5.) The NFL and the Pats seem to be on the same page so far.
Reasons for concern:
1.) We don't know what's on the film yet. I do agree that if the film showed close ups of Bengals play sheets, coaches sideline conferences, etc., it could be bad news. I'd say this is highly unlikely, but cannot be ruled out.
2.) A rule violation did occur. While probably minor, it's still a violation.
3.) It's the NFL. 'Nuff sed.
4.) The unconfirmed rumor that the video guy asked for the film to be deleted.
Last edited:
The PSI rules are literally impossible to follow. No cold weather outdoor team has ever been able to follow them. Ever. And I'm not sure what the football ops people are supposed to do about a documentary camera crew employed by someone else.
Reasons for concern #2 and #3 plus the fact that the NFL has treated the Patriots like the worst criminals ever on TWO different occasions (one directly related to, uh, illegal taping) make this a big concern.
Maybe that concern will be unfounded but we are not crazy for thinking that the NFL could quite possibly come down hard on the Patriots for this, even though it’s likely a total nothing.
I don’t get this. Nobody is saying that this is cheating or that it has anything to do with football ops. If I am Bob Kraft and one of my business units video tapes shit during NFL games I would make for fucking sure that we were not violating league rules when we shot shit for our video production company. The league has fucked us twice. Should we play it fast and loose or make doubly sure we are flowing the rules?
In the first prior offense, Belichick was nailed more for ignoring the memo than for taping signals per se.
The second offense had stupid text messages from low level team employees combined with Brady destroying his phone at an inopportune time, as well as a consulting company deliberately conducting scientific fraud to appease a big name client.
Neither is likely to apply here, so I'm still leaning optimistic, but we'll obviously have to wait and see.
Well, if you go to twitter, and type Patriots into the search bar, one of the suggestions is "cheating".
SVP did not mention Pats on that cut-in.
Is it 1 or 2 trash can bangs for a blitz? I forget.
So this film crew openly asks the Browns and the stadium for permission - that is granted (which also removes whatever the likeness filming law tangent).
The film crew is filming the scout and his POV for B roll.
The POV is of the legendary Bengals butt cheeks. Really helpful for game planning
The Bengals were not notified but yet simultaneously had a staffer watching the filming on a screen next to the people filming.
So the Bengals were aware? Werent? Im confused.
The Bengals guy says whoa whoa youre filming too much of our super secret signs.
Pats video guy - uhhh sure ok want us to delete that???
OMG delete???? How dare you?!!
The logic is well non existent. The complaint is stupid. I am sure the only reason the Pats issued a statement was because the mob was upset, as they usually are, and the Pats realized given past idiocracy they should say something.
Some 20 something year old kid with an iphone 11 and tix at the 50 six rows up is a much better choice.
So this film crew openly asks the Browns and the stadium for permission - that is granted (which also removes whatever the likeness filming law tangent).
The film crew is filming the scout and his POV for B roll.
The POV is of the legendary Bengals butt cheeks. Really helpful for game planning
The Bengals were not notified but yet simultaneously had a staffer watching the filming on a screen next to the people filming.
So the Bengals were aware? Werent? Im confused.
The Bengals guy says whoa whoa youre filming too much of our super secret signs.
Pats video guy - uhhh sure ok want us to delete that???
OMG delete???? How dare you?!!
The logic is well non existent. The complaint is stupid. I am sure the only reason the Pats issued a statement was because the mob was upset, as they usually are, and the Pats realized given past idiocracy they should say something.
Some 20 something year old kid with an iphone 11 and tix at the 50 six rows up is a much better choice.
Yep ... and that's the narrative that will play out.
and then there are the headlines
Yahoo: Patriots cameraman reportedly asked to 'just delete the footage,' Bill Belichick denies any involvement
This was probably more like:
"Oh, I had no idea--I was just told to shoot some b roll. You can just delete that then."
"What really drew the interest of the Bengals is the fact they were shooting into the bench area," Pelissero said on The Aftermath. "I have spoken with several people familiar of what was in that tape, including one person who has seen that tape, and said it included video of the Bengals coaches making signals and then panning out into the field."
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001086298/article/bengals-nfl-investigating-if-patriots-filmed-sideline
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001086298/article/bengals-nfl-investigating-if-patriots-filmed-sideline
Weak sauce. A good headline would speculate as to why he didn’t follow protocol and bite/swallow the cyanide capsule under his back molar.
You know what? Stuff happens. Especially when it's perceived to be small stuff.
Film crew arrives. Talks to Browns people. Browns say, "Fine, no problem". Video guys get set up. Things are running late, and they need to get the segment done. There's not that many games and so not that many more chances to interview and film the advance scout in action. So they forget to inform the NFL folks on the scene. Or assume that the Browns will do it for them. It's just 3 guys, and they may not even be team employees; based on the team's statements, at least one of them is a consultant.
The game starts, and the film guys decide to film some game action on the b-roll thinking it would be helpful for the documentary. The Bengals guy comes over and tells them they really shouldn't be doing that. Video guy says, "sorry, I'll delete it if that's what you want. It was just some b-roll that we may review when we put the documentary together." Bengals say "Actually, we'll need to turn it over to the league". Video guy says "No problem".