2020 Pats: General/Non-QB Off-Season Discussion

bigq

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Well that’s a Thriller of a trade
Beat It with your silly commentary. It’s obvious that there is nothing Bad about this trade. Cleary Belichick is playing the role of Smooth Criminal. He sees something in PYT Jackson that no one else can and in a few years time we will all be laughing about Remember the Time the Patriots traded an undisclosed draft pick to the Lions for Hero Michael Jackson. It doesn’t matter whether the player is Black or White, Belichick’s personnel moves have always had a The Way You Make Me Feel element to them and his mantra has consistently been Don’t Stop ‘Til You Get Enough.
 

BigSoxFan

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It’s pretty dangerous to have thin CB depth. Hopefully he gets BB out of a jam at some point.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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A Scud Away from Hell
Some of you may remember that Kilgo had a cup of coffee with the Pats back in 2016. He was claimed off of the Broncos roster than put on NE's practice squad.

Leggett had character issues coming out of Clemson but going to the Jets didn't help. His draft profiles I read noted his excellent size (6' 5") and good hands but pointed out work ethic and weak blocking as drawbacks. Leggett was in the same draft class as O.J. Howard, Evan Engram, and David Njoku, all first round picks in what was considered to be one of the best TE draft class in a long time.
 

Soxy

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Looks like Lamar Miller will get a shot in the backfield.
He was always a solid, steady contributor for years until he tore his knee up in the 2019 preseason. Worth a flyer for cheap money, I suppose, but I'm not sure where he fits. He doesn't play special teams either.

My guess is they just see the track record of production floating out there on the open market for almost nothing and figure what the hell, if he's good enough we'll find a spot. He's not a sexy guy but he's been reliably productive, and he breaks the occasional big play. Useful in the passing game. As much as it may not look on paper like they need another RB, I don't think anybody was happy with the running game last season. It needs to improve, regardless of how it gets there. We can't just assume improvement from Sony and Damien Harris.

Maybe the Pats will try to compensate for their lack of reliable pass catchers with a bunch of weird, multiple RB looks? In Cam's early years, Carolina spent a bunch of money on DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart (for some godforsaken reason), which is partly why they never had good receivers, but they did fit their read-option system. They ran some stuff with both Williams and Stewart lined up together in the backfield. Both guys could motion out wide too. There was some interesting stuff there, even if those contracts were absurd.
 

pappymojo

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I don't have a MJ song here, but hasn't the deadline passed for opt outs?
I can't find the link but I remember reading a quote that if he felt unsafe, he wouldn't play, even if the opt out period passed.
 

E5 Yaz

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I can't find the link but I remember reading a quote that if he felt unsafe, he wouldn't play, even if the opt out period passed.
So it comes down to him looking at the man in the mirror for advice
 

bakahump

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Well it is what it is I guess......but odd the report went from basically "if this guy doesnt have Covid they are signing him" to a rather blunt "They will not be signing him" (Reason not given....which seems a bit odd).
 

sodenj5

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Looks like Lamar Miller will get a shot in the backfield.
Former Dolphin Alum.

Miller has been fairly steady since he left Miami but he was the definition of league average. His problem in Miami was always the number of carries vs his production.

In a handcuff role in Miami, he would be an explosive option, but his effectiveness would wane as he got more carries throughout the game. He went to Houston to prove he could be an every down back, and while he was more consistent and durable, he seemed to lose that explosion he had in Miami.

There are worse dudes to take a flyer on. Like a quicker version of Frank Gore at this point in his career.
 

Soxy

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There are worse dudes to take a flyer on. Like a quicker version of Frank Gore at this point in his career.
In the span of typing up my last post I basically went from, "I don't see where he fits," to realizing that he is the most accomplished RB on the roster.
 

BaseballJones

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Acquiring Miller is kind of the very reason why you shouldn't expend big-time draft capital on a running back, unless (and maybe not even then) the RB you're drafting is a guy like Saquon Barkley or Adrian Peterson. You can always find a guy who can do the job. You can't always find a Christian McCaffrey, but you can always find useful players at the position.

Last 5 seasons' average year:

225 att, 981 yds, 4.4 ypc, 6 td, 35 rec, 270 yds

I mean, that's perfectly fine. You don't want this guy handling the ball 350 times probably, but give him 200-225 total touches, and he's going to produce for you.
 

sodenj5

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Acquiring Miller is kind of the very reason why you shouldn't expend big-time draft capital on a running back, unless (and maybe not even then) the RB you're drafting is a guy like Saquon Barkley or Adrian Peterson. You can always find a guy who can do the job. You can't always find a Christian McCaffrey, but you can always find useful players at the position.

Last 5 seasons' average year:

225 att, 981 yds, 4.4 ypc, 6 td, 35 rec, 270 yds

I mean, that's perfectly fine. You don't want this guy handling the ball 350 times probably, but give him 200-225 total touches, and he's going to produce for you.
Exactly right. Even if you hit, you can still end up with Todd Gurley.

I listen to the Move the Sticks podcast and their argument is consistently that you can and should draft a RB early if warranted, but there’s hardly ever a scenario where you can justify their second contract. Maybe CMC will be an exception, but there are so many RBs whose career is essentially over by year 5 or 6 that’s its almost always a losing proposition.

Take one in round 3 or 4, let them play for 4 years and move on.
 

bakahump

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Its amazing thats the state of RBs now. When we grew up with Payton(4330), Dorsett(3334), Dickerson (3277), Allen, Craig and Riggins were norm. Not the HOF part...but the huge workload and continued production.

I get that the game has changed....but its actually changed where these guys seem like they should get less beat up over their career (because they are passing so much more now). Gurley for example has averaged a tick under 300 touches for his career (15%of which were passes, where at least some of those are "less intensive" touches). Factor in defenses that cant stack the box and they should be hit less, by smaller players.

Allen averaged about the same as Gurley over his first 7 years....but then went on to play for 9 more years with the last 5 seasons averaging 215 touches (3609 total touches). Riggins (who to be fair had pretty light usage until his 30s) averaged 262 for his last 6 seasons. Keep in mind he only caught the ball 62 times in those 6 seasons, so they were "pretty intensive" touches (3166 total career).
Then you look at the 90s guys (Smith, Sanders, Thomas, Martin). Smith from age 22-30 averaged 380 touches (4924 total touches!). A small (but admittedly shifty!) Sanders averaged 340 for his 10 year career (and went out at or damn close to his peak. 3414 total touches) Thomas was 330 touches from his rookie to 30yo season (and admittedly collapsed after that with 3349 total touches). Martin averaged 364 for his entire 11 year career (4000 total).

Crazy that 10-20 years later and guys are cooked after 1200-1500 touches.

bigger stronger faster defenses.