2020 Pats: Gilmore Tests Positive for C-19 but Asymptomatic

Time to Mo Vaughn

RIP Dernell
SoSH Member
Mar 24, 2008
7,203
I wonder if this may result in any players opting out. McCourty made it very clear when he was opting in, he would have no qualms about opting out at any point in the future when he felt unsafe. If he was on the edge then, he's gotta be close now.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,096
I would not take seriously any tweet by some media rando like Klis. He is correct that the game has not been cancelled yet. Doesn't matter; the game can get cancelled anytime up until Sunday. I'm guessing no final decision will be made until Thursday or Friday.

The MLB players didn't walk because the league cancelled the games until the teams involved were able to safely resume them. If the NFL insists on playing Sunday despite multiple players testing positive, the NFLPA will definitely intervene. I'm betting the under on this game being played; it has nothing to do with the league appearing soft to the Patriots.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

posts way less than 18% useful shit
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2010
14,425
Why do we think the NFLPA will step out of these positive tests when the MLB players didn't?

They can claim it was one team that may have been violating protocols (Titans) and then with NE they knew teams would have cases and the league and players have protocols in place, agreed to by both sides.
Because the NFL CBA expires at the end of the season, MLB has another full season before they have to negotiate.

As many flags they can put in the sand, they will (or should).

I'd also argue that MLB players generally only have to worry about their own locker room. Players just arent in as close proximity in MLB, and when they are, guys can wear masks.

Finally, the risk of death is low for the general population, probably lower for young and healthy athletes. You know who arent healthy? 340 pound lineman.

The risks are different for a myriad of reasons for each league.
 

Captaincoop

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
13,487
Santa Monica, CA
Because the NFL CBA expires at the end of the season, MLB has another full season before they have to negotiate.

As many flags they can put in the sand, they will (or should).

I'd also argue that MLB players generally only have to worry about their own locker room. Players just arent in as close proximity in MLB, and when they are, guys can wear masks.

Finally, the risk of death is low for the general population, probably lower for young and healthy athletes. You know who arent healthy? 340 pound lineman.

The risks are different for a myriad of reasons for each league.
340 pound linemen are certainly healthy.
 

BigJimEd

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
4,432
I mean Mahomes is at minimum on quarantine. Disaster for the league.
Not with NFL rules.
Practice squad QB who presumably was in meetings with Mahomes tested positive and Mahomes wasn't put in quarantine. None of the Patriots were.

I see the media posting the Gilmore /Mahomes pic all over but barely mention of his contact with player on his own team.

Who is more likely to transmit it to Mahomes?
CDC guidelines wouldn't even consider Mahomes a close contact for Gilmore.
 

Jungleland

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 2, 2009
2,351
The bizarre thing is you almost have to think the NFL is leaving money on the table by NOT extending the season. Like the idea posed up thread about building in extra weeks now and playing makeups week 10, for example - imagine the ratings on Titans/Steelers and Pats/Chiefs?!?!
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
72,430

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,088
Maybe Gilmore wanted to cancel the season. Getting the face of the league sick is probably the quickest way.
He’s the best “shutdown” corner in the league for a reason. Well played, Gilmore, well played...
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,055
Hingham, MA
Can't believe the NFL didn't postpone. And am disappointed that Pats didn't just refuse to go, but you know BB is a competitor.
This is one of those times when I'd love to know what BB is thinking. While you are right that he is a competitor, I wonder what he thought about the team having to wake up at 6am to get tested, fly in on the day of the game, play a night game, then fly back that evening, all having not had any in person meetings or practices since Friday, starting a quarterback that prepped all week as the backup, etc. He is a no excuse guy, but at the very least he had to have some thoughts along the lines of "this is not how football is meant to be played".
 

Oppo

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 5, 2009
1,576
Not with NFL rules.
Practice squad QB who presumably was in meetings with Mahomes tested positive and Mahomes wasn't put in quarantine. None of the Patriots were.

I see the media posting the Gilmore /Mahomes pic all over but barely mention of his contact with player on his own team.

Who is more likely to transmit it to Mahomes?
CDC guidelines wouldn't even consider Mahomes a close contact for Gilmore.
This. Being in close contact with someone for a few seconds (assuming no coughing/sneezing) is thought to have a very unlikely transmission risk, especially outdoors. The current critical close contact exposure time is 10 min.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
22,668
If the NFL were to take a week or two off right now to get things under control, it would make it seem like COVID is still a major problem in this country and taking things people like away from them. There is a very powerful man who is friends with a lot of the owners who does not want to remind people that COVID isn’t under control.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
42,273
AZ
The NFL has been unfailingly profitable and successful in the last decade plus by being almost dogmatically reactive instead of proactive. Their view will be that this was a thing that happened to the Titans and the Patriots and they will react as needed with the most minimal intrusion and giving lip service to player safety. They probably will do some grandstanding like blaming the Patriots and talking tough about fines and their protocols because that is what they do until it happens again and they can react then. It is the playbook and it has served them well.

If players get mobilized and start taking action they will react but only when it gets to a critical mass. If it happens to Jerry Jones or the Steelers then something might move incrementally but they know they cannot control a virus and this is the course they decided on.
 

OurF'ingCity

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 22, 2016
8,469
New York City
The NFL has been unfailingly profitable and successful in the last decade plus by being almost dogmatically reactive instead of proactive. Their view will be that this was a thing that happened to the Titans and the Patriots and they will react as needed with the most minimal intrusion and giving lip service to player safety. They probably will do some grandstanding like blaming the Patriots and talking tough about fines and their protocols because that is what they do until it happens again and they can react then. It is the playbook and it has served them well.

If players get mobilized and start taking action they will react but only when it gets to a critical mass. If it happens to Jerry Jones or the Steelers then something might move incrementally but they know they cannot control a virus and this is the course they decided on.
Couldn’t agree more with this. And I highly doubt the union will do anything - after all, they agreed to the current protocols before the season started. I mean, heck, we saw college football players, who don’t even get paid, being pissed that their seasons might be cancelled - does anyone really think NFL players whose livelihoods are tied to playing are going to advocate for cancelling or postponing games if they don’t need to be?

Correct me if I’m wrong but I haven’t seen a single player or union official say that additional steps need to be taken beyond what the NFL is doing currently.
 

Captaincoop

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
13,487
Santa Monica, CA
The fact that teams really need at least 5 days between games makes this really difficult to balance the TV needs with quarantine and testing protocols. You can imagine some seemingly easy ways to make it more likely a full season gets played, but none that make it close to a guarantee.
The reasonable best case is probably that we end with an unbalanced season where some teams play 16 and other teams play 11 or 12. From there, though...I can't imagine what a shitshow ensues if teams go through the Titans or Pats situation in the middle of the playoffs. Yeesh.
 

Sille Skrub

Dope
Dope
SoSH Member
Mar 3, 2004
5,930
Massachusetts
This is one of those times when I'd love to know what BB is thinking. While you are right that he is a competitor, I wonder what he thought about the team having to wake up at 6am to get tested, fly in on the day of the game, play a night game, then fly back that evening, all having not had any in person meetings or practices since Friday, starting a quarterback that prepped all week as the backup, etc. He is a no excuse guy, but at the very least he had to have some thoughts along the lines of "this is not how football is meant to be played".
Nope. We all know how Bill thinks:

Bill is thinking about whatever he can to get his team the win. All that other stuff is superfluous to him. Other teams have to deal with similar hurdles and everyone deals with injuries to their starting QB.

If the league says to play, they play. Bill doesn't care about anything out of his control.

Kraft, on the other hand, should have advocated for a cancellation.
 

soxhop411

news aggravator
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2009
46,275
View: https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/1313855660933754881
Source: The Patriots' plan is to be fully remote today AND tomorrow. In the aftermath of Stephon Gilmore's positive test, the team is very much proceeding with caution. That means their first practice of the week would be, at the earliest, Friday. They play Denver on Sunday.
Given the NFL is run by a bunch of Dunces who only care about the all mighty $$$$ over the safety of its employees, they will 100% force the pats to play
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,055
Hingham, MA
Nope. We all know how Bill thinks:

Bill is thinking about whatever he can to get his team the win. All that other stuff is superfluous to him. Other teams have to deal with similar hurdles. Everyone deals with injuries to their starting QB.

If the league says to play, they play. Bill doesn't care about anything out of his control.

Kraft, on the other hand, should have advocated for a cancellation.
I disagree. Flying in the day of the game is not normal and something all teams have to deal with. Waking up abnormally early for testing is not normal and something all teams have to deal with. Dealing with mother trucking deflategate while trying to prepare for the SUPER BOWL is not normal and something all teams have to deal with.

BB doesn't make excuses about things that even out over the course of time - long weeks vs. short weeks, officiating, etc. "Everyone plays by the same rules", "everyone plays 16 games over 17 weeks", "everyone plays 8 home games and 8 road games", etc. But when the playing field is not even, I can't imagine that he just shrugs his shoulders. He moves on and focuses on what's next, because that's who he is, but it doesn't mean that he's not pissed behind the scenes.
 
I know that everything looks like a nail when all you have is hammers (etc.), but there doesn't have to be a conspiracy against the Patriots this time. There are no optimal solutions regarding positive COVID tests in the NFL, just as there were no optimal solutions when this happened in the NBA and MLB. I know what I personally would do if I were Goodell, and what is happening now doesn't perfectly match that, but in this case at least, that doesn't mean I'm automatically going to assume he isn't at least trying to to do what's best for the league as a whole.

(There's still plenty of time for my opinion in that regard to change, of course - and it sounds like he's going to have plenty of difficult decisions to make this week.)
 

The Mort Report

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 5, 2007
6,883
Concord
Mort is the biggest shill of the NFL and that is saying something. He's a clown.
I was the mort report first and he makes me want to change my name. Maybe I can sell him my Themortreport twitter handle with 0 tweets since 2009

And seriously with the social issues? He dropped the ball on that harder than any other major sport. No other sport would have blackballed Kaepernick for standing up for basic rights. A clown indeed
 

jercra

No longer respects DeChambeau
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
3,147
Arvada, Co
I highly, highly doubt the NFLPA will say anything about this at all. Firstly, they got the opt-out ability to cover players with friends/family with risk and players with no risk. Secondly, the league is made up of haves and have-nots. The have-nots can't afford to not get paid by games/season getting cancelled. With most players having very little guaranteed money, they are always one injury away from having no income source. Thirdly, as mentioned above, they are young professional athletes with elite levels of medical care available. The actual risk to them of a positive CV19 diagnosis is very, very small and not worth the financial risk of cancelling.

As to the NFL changing their schedule, I think you are all vastly, vastly underestimating how complex the language around TV contracts are. Do you think NBC and CBS don't have contract language with other broadcast commitments that explicitly prohibit them from broadcasting on days outside of their scheduled NFL broadcasts? Do you think they don't have contract language with their sponsors on what times and dates and slots they have paid for? There are all kinds of local advertising rights (contractual) issues that would come up. Now, whether all of the contractual or legal claims are worth risking people's health is a different discussion, but they can't just decide to change the schedule to be 24 weeks without an impossible amount of knock-on effects.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

posts way less than 18% useful shit
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2010
14,425
Apparently not. 25 year olds who exercise every day and eat tailored meals to maintain mass aren't the same as obese, sedentary 60 year olds.
And you think because the meals are tailored, that an extra 100 - 130 pounds of fat is fine for someone's heart and cardiovascular system?

Fat is fat. It might come from healthier food, which is better for things like cholesterol, but an extra 100 pounds of fat is still a huge burden on the human body.
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
26,993
Newton
I highly, highly doubt the NFLPA will say anything about this at all. Firstly, they got the opt-out ability to cover players with friends/family with risk and players with no risk. Secondly, the league is made up of haves and have-nots. The have-nots can't afford to not get paid by games/season getting cancelled. With most players having very little guaranteed money, they are always one injury away from having no income source. Thirdly, as mentioned above, they are young professional athletes with elite levels of medical care available. The actual risk to them of a positive CV19 diagnosis is very, very small and not worth the financial risk of cancelling.

As to the NFL changing their schedule, I think you are all vastly, vastly underestimating how complex the language around TV contracts are. Do you think NBC and CBS don't have contract language with other broadcast commitments that explicitly prohibit them from broadcasting on days outside of their scheduled NFL broadcasts? Do you think they don't have contract language with their sponsors on what times and dates and slots they have paid for? There are all kinds of local advertising rights (contractual) issues that would come up. Now, whether all of the contractual or legal claims are worth risking people's health is a different discussion, but they can't just decide to change the schedule to be 24 weeks without an impossible amount of knock-on effects.
Ok, so how did they reschedule the Chiefs game for Monday then (which bled into the actual Monday night game BTW)?

Oh and the league regularly flexes games and schedules a night game Sunday’s on the fly.

This is a stupid post and the kind of rationale I’d expect from league officials. The NFL wanted to play this game, period, despite there being no pressing reason to play it given that they sold virtually no tickets. So they did. And now (star) players have a potentially lethal disease – and the reigning MVP needs to go into quarantine (but probably won’t bc ... football).
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,840
And now (star) players have a potentially lethal disease – and the reigning MVP needs to go into quarantine (but probably won’t bc ... football).
Here's the CDC guidelines. Does that postgame hug count as a "hug" in the way they likely mean here:

People who have been in close contact with someone who has COVID-19—excluding people who have had COVID-19 within the past 3 months.
People who have tested positive for COVID-19 do not need to quarantine or get tested again for up to 3 months as long as they do not develop symptoms again. People who develop symptoms again within 3 months of their first bout of COVID-19 may need to be tested again if there is no other cause identified for their symptoms.
What counts as close contact?
  • You were within 6 feet of someone who has COVID-19 for a total of 15 minutes or more
  • You provided care at home to someone who is sick with COVID-19
  • You had direct physical contact with the person (hugged or kissed them)
  • You shared eating or drinking utensils
  • They sneezed, coughed, or somehow got respiratory droplets on you
 

JimD

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 29, 2001
8,681
I know that Kraft is an owner and thus a member of the club, but he needs to put his foot down for the good of his team and organization. At some point a professional athlete, coach or other team employee is going to be the first one to get really sick and die from Covid - does he really want that person to be a New England Patriot?
 

Captaincoop

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
13,487
Santa Monica, CA
And you think because the meals are tailored, that an extra 100 - 130 pounds of fat is fine for someone's heart and cardiovascular system?

Fat is fat. It might come from healthier food, which is better for things like cholesterol, but an extra 100 pounds of fat is still a huge burden on the human body.
Yes, I believe that professional linemen at age 25-35 have much better cardiovascular health than the average human being, regardless of their body mass.
 

Saints Rest

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
If the NFL were to take a week or two off right now to get things under control, it would make it seem like COVID is still a major problem in this country and taking things people like away from them. There is a very powerful man who is friends with a lot of the owners who does not want to remind people that COVID isn’t under control.
Exactly what I am thinking whenever I read that the NFL is too dumb to fix this. It's not about money -- as has been noted, adding weeks to the TV schedule would only help; and it's not like fans who bought tickets are being inconvenienced. This is about power; the power exerted from the most powerful office in the land.
 

Lose Remerswaal

Experiencing Furry Panic
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
If the NFL were to take a week or two off right now to get things under control, it would make it seem like COVID is still a major problem in this country and taking things people like away from them. There is a very powerful man who is friends with a lot of the owners who does not want to remind people that COVID isn’t under control.
Say the words.

The NFL is run by Trump sycophants and they do not want to piss him off.

Any Social Justice work done by the league has been lip service and couch change. As long as Kaepernick and Eric Reid arent in the league, especially Reid, the whole league is bullshitting you about caring about anything other than $$
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
22,668
Exactly what I am thinking whenever I read that the NFL is too dumb to fix this. It's not about money -- as has been noted, adding weeks to the TV schedule would only help; and it's not like fans who bought tickets are being inconvenienced. This is about power; the power exerted from the most powerful office in the land.
I mean he straight up said it during the debate "I brought football back", the implication that Trump's amazing leadership was able to create a safe space for the NFL to return. The NFL taking two weeks off, right before the election, because COVID isn't under control (thanks to Trump's shitty leadership) would be a pretty big blow for Trump and his ego. The owners want to remain on Trump's good side and if they were to take two weeks off, you know Trump would be all over them.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,375
Say the words.

The NFL is run by Trump sycophants and they do not want to piss him off.

Any Social Justice work done by the league has been lip service and couch change. As long as Kaepernick and Eric Reid arent in the league, especially Reid, the whole league is bullshitting you about caring about anything other than $$
Um...even if Kap and Reid were in the league, it would still be all about $$$. Their present absence doesn’t make it so. It’s been about that and it will continue to be about that, plain and simple.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

posts way less than 18% useful shit
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2010
14,425
Yes, I believe that professional linemen at age 25-35 have much better cardiovascular health than the average human being, regardless of their body mass.
Maybe you're right. We have some doctors here. Maybe one of them wants to educate us ignorant folks.
 

jercra

No longer respects DeChambeau
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
3,147
Arvada, Co
Ok, so how did they reschedule the Chiefs game for Monday then (which bled into the actual Monday night game BTW)?

Oh and the league regularly flexes games and schedules a night game Sunday’s on the fly.

This is a stupid post and the kind of rationale I’d expect from league officials. The NFL wanted to play this game, period, despite there being no pressing reason to play it given that they sold virtually no tickets. So they did. And now (star) players have a potentially lethal disease – and the reigning MVP needs to go into quarantine (but probably won’t bc ... football).
Yikes. You're right, the NFL doesn't already play games on Monday nights and there's nothing in their contracts with their broadcast partners that define exactly what and how they can flex games. It's all done "on the fly".
 

jezza1918

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
2,607
South Dartmouth, MA
Maybe you're right. We have some doctors here. Maybe one of them wants to educate us ignorant folks.
I'm sure actual doctors will chime in but I did just ask my father who is a 71 year old (almost retired thanks to COVID) cardiologist who said lineman are far less at risk than average human, especially an average obese human. Body fat % and cardiovascular fitness levels wouldnt even be comparable.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

posts way less than 18% useful shit
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2010
14,425
Yes, I believe that professional linemen at age 25-35 have much better cardiovascular health than the average human being, regardless of their body mass.
Here's a study on college linemen. "Although athletes might be assumed to be protected from risks of cardiovascular disease, we found a high incidence of metabolic syndrome and other associated adverse biomarkers for heart disease in collegiate football linemen. " - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2582553/

This PDF cites a 4-6× increase in cardiovascular deaths for retired linemen, while the rest of the positions are below the average curve. What percentage of them remain an unhealthy weight after playing, it doesnt say: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(09)00441-0/pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjOpYiD-6LsAhUVhHIEHYl-CdEQFjADegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw13XWl2TgBrWDB1W3YPrEPS&cshid=1602090944690

Croft et al7 compared echocardiographic characteristics between linemen and nonlinemen among 487 retired NFL players. Retired linemen had significantly increased left ventricular mass and left atrial area compared with nonlinemen.

Furthermore, BMI, player position as a linemen, and systolic blood pressure were all independent predictors for increased left ventricular mass. The investigators hypothesized that these “cardiac adaptations may contribute to the higher incidence of cardiovascular disease in retired linemen.”

Recently, Mayo Clinic physicians reported that 82% of 233 retired NFL players - 50 years of age had either plaque or carotid narrowing on neck Doppler studies.8 Adjusted for age, sex, and race, this finding placed them in the 75th percentile for carotid disease. Although this study does not pertain specifically to cardiac risk, it does demonstrate increased atherogenesis in young retired NFL players.

This TIMEs article states lineman have healthier hearts than their non-playing peers. Of course, the majority of athletes dont smoke, which is a large factor for non-athletes. It was also conducted by the NFL themself, so...grain of salt and all that: http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1901018,00.html
 
Last edited:

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,055
Hingham, MA
What happens to them after they retire is a different story IMO. If they go the Jeff Saturday route they will be healthy. If they stay at 350 lbs... they will die early. But we're talking about their healthy while playing.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,375
Unrelated to Covid, but just to jump in on the "are the NFL fat guys in danger?" back-and-forth.... I wonder why the NFL still has the same rules regarding the number of men on the line that they had basically from the beginning of the sport. Back then, it was all about running the ball, smashing people together, and gaining a few yards at a time. Imagine if they got rid of the rules requiring 7 men to be on the line, and designating certain players as ineligible receivers. Imagine you need one person to snap the ball, and from there, it's a free for all. Everyone is eligible. You can still have rules about what constitutes a forward pass, etc. This would allow teams, if they so chose, to have very few 300+ pound guys, as they could go with a bunch of fast guys. There would likely be a lot fewer concussions because you wouldn't likely have all these linemen smashing into each other every play. You'd still likely have some of that, but the game would likely move towards smaller, faster, and likely HEALTHIER guys, instead of a bunch of mammoth guys who are playing at, frankly, unhealthy weights.

And it would make the game crazy fun.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

posts way less than 18% useful shit
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2010
14,425
What happens to them after they retire is a different story IMO. If they go the Jeff Saturday route they will be healthy. If they stay at 350 lbs... they will die early. But we're talking about their healthy while playing.
Right. Although one of the sourced articles above focuses on linemen that were currently attending college. And even they show concerning biomarkers for heart disease.
 

Lose Remerswaal

Experiencing Furry Panic
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Um...even if Kap and Reid were in the league, it would still be all about $$$. Their present absence doesn’t make it so. It’s been about that and it will continue to be about that, plain and simple.
Absolutely agree. I just used that example to show how little the NFL cares about these issues they claim they are supporting. And we, the people, fall for their lies every time because FOOTBALL!

I am so glad I gave up on the NFL 2 years ago, and every week they reinforce that I made the right call in doing so. It is Donald Trump's league and watching it is supporting his friends and him.