2020 Pats: QB Edition

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,650
Nobody has mentioned it yet, but........

Cody Kessler might be the week 1 starter if they go with the Stidham and rookie strategy. He was pretty good as a rookie and quite bad since.
 

nattysez

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2010
8,487
Not that this would surprise anyone, but I think BB's going-forward plan is to find a cheap but solid QB, spend heavily on the middle-class guys that make the roster solid, and hope that they can hit on a few guys in the draft. Dink-and-dunk with multiple very good RBs.
 

Super Nomario

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2000
14,015
Mansfield MA
Not that this would surprise anyone, but I think BB's going-forward plan is to find a cheap but solid QB, spend heavily on the middle-class guys that make the roster solid, and hope that they can hit on a few guys in the draft. Dink-and-dunk with multiple very good RBs.
Yeah, him and 31 other teams
 

bsj

Renegade Crazed Genius
SoSH Member
Dec 6, 2003
22,785
Central NJ SoSH Chapter
I still think Brissett may be an option here. Maybe not a long term answer, but if the Colts cut him (which is possible at $15 mill for a backup- they'll dangle him but not sure how many takers there will be) we may be in "mutual best short term fit" territory. Jacoby's a FA after this year. 1 year to start in NE may not be the worst run up to FA
 

Super Nomario

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2000
14,015
Mansfield MA
I still think Brissett may be an option here. Maybe not a long term answer, but if the Colts cut him (which is possible at $15 mill for a backup- they'll dangle him but not sure how many takers there will be) we may be in "mutual best short term fit" territory. Jacoby's a FA after this year. 1 year to start in NE may not be the worst run up to FA
They saw Brissett up close for a year and traded him for 50 cents on the dollar. I don't imagine they have any interest.
 

lars10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
11,739
I forget what chemistry Stidham and Myers had in the pre-season.

Something definitely worth watching.
One thing I'm wondering is if Brady's arm strength limited play calls last year (his accuracy seemed off from his usual other worldly self to my eye).
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/list/pass/new-england-patriots/2019/week
Just looking at his passing last year it looks like almost all of his passes were 20 yards and in. After week 14 he basically had 1 pass completed over 20 yards.
Looking at other QBs this is basically true of most QBs.. Mahomes has a bunch more over 20 yards, but his receivers were a lot better too.

I'm wondering if Harry and Myers make a leap with a different QB...or if at least the Pats put in any money they save into a quality wide receiver...or are they tight up against the cap even with the difference between Brady and Stidham's salary cap number?
 

Super Nomario

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2000
14,015
Mansfield MA
One thing I'm wondering is if Brady's arm strength limited play calls last year (his accuracy seemed off from his usual other worldly self to my eye).
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/list/pass/new-england-patriots/2019/week
Just looking at his passing last year it looks like almost all of his passes were 20 yards and in. After week 14 he basically had 1 pass completed over 20 yards.
Looking at other QBs this is basically true of most QBs.. Mahomes has a bunch more over 20 yards, but his receivers were a lot better too.

I'm wondering if Harry and Myers make a leap with a different QB...or if at least the Pats put in any money they save into a quality wide receiver...or are they tight up against the cap even with the difference between Brady and Stidham's salary cap number?
After Week 14 corresponds to when Dorsett (their only fast WR) basically stopped playing. Sanu is slow, Harry isn't a speed guy and was pretty bad. Gordon was gone. They actually threw to Edelman a fair bit but that's not his game. TE obviously had nothing downfield happening. I don't know why you'd attribute this to Brady rather than what was going on around him.
 

findguapo

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 7, 2006
982
This is obviously not the solution for starting QB next year, but Broc Rutter would be a really good training camp flyer. He broke D3 passing records this year and was absolutely dominant against low level competition. He will either be drafted in the last couple rounds or be an undrafted free agent.
 
Last edited:

lars10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
11,739
After Week 14 corresponds to when Dorsett (their only fast WR) basically stopped playing. Sanu is slow, Harry isn't a speed guy and was pretty bad. Gordon was gone. They actually threw to Edelman a fair bit but that's not his game. TE obviously had nothing downfield happening. I don't know why you'd attribute this to Brady rather than what was going on around him.
You're probably completely correct.. I thought his accuracy on short passes was off more than normal this year and his long passes for the most part just looked as though they had no shot. And seemed to get worse as the season progressed (but that probably had a lot to do with who he had at receiver as well).

To be clear, I was hoping for another year of TB with hopefully a fully recovered receiving core and possibly another talented player at WR and/or TE...

To me..and I know it's anecdotal.. I thought on some of his throws they weren't there this year. I haven't compared the stats between this year and previous years however.
 

Captaincoop

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
13,488
Santa Monica, CA
I'd love to see Belichick and Co. have a chance to gameplan with a QB who has a chance to make something happen with his legs. When Brady was 100% Brady, it didn't matter, but the last couple of years the fact that teams didn't have to worry about an element that has become increasingly important around the league was more and more of a problem.

We're also about to see the most motivated Bill Belichick imaginable, freed from having to worry about managing the player with the most gravity in the league. Brady is still a loss, but I'm interested.
 

chonce1

New Member
Apr 23, 2010
191
Let's trade Joe Thuney for Cam Newton?

Or something like that. We would probably have to attach a salary to make it work but Thuney is more replacable than someone like Gilmore.

I could also see them drafting Herbert if he falls close to 23 or trading up. If they like any of these rookies, really, it may have made the decision to offer Brady near-shit to come back easier.
 

chonce1

New Member
Apr 23, 2010
191
Based on economics and cap space it would seem Stidham and a rookie is most likely.

I wonder if BB would trade for Jacoby Brisset? Probably he is makes 20 m a year or some shit.
 

bsj

Renegade Crazed Genius
SoSH Member
Dec 6, 2003
22,785
Central NJ SoSH Chapter
Based on economics and cap space it would seem Stidham and a rookie is most likely.

I wonder if BB would trade for Jacoby Brisset? Probably he is makes 20 m a year or some shit.
Zero chance they trade for him. However, if IND decides 15 million is too much for a backup, i could see them taking a one year flyer
 

Super Nomario

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2000
14,015
Mansfield MA
There are lots of ideas that would be interesting. Cam Newton is not one of them, IMO.
No no no no no no no no no.
A healthy Newton is special in a way that none of the other options are ... and if they're serious about running the ball, the element he adds would elevate the entire offense.

"Healthy" is the operative word, but questions there are also why he's available. Give me a high-risk home run swing like Cam over a never-done-nothin like Dalton or Mariota or Bridgewater or Carr any day of the week.
 

jsinger121

@jsinger121
SoSH Member
Jul 25, 2005
17,682
A healthy Newton is special in a way that none of the other options are ... and if they're serious about running the ball, the element he adds would elevate the entire offense.

"Healthy" is the operative word, but questions there are also why he's available. Give me a high-risk home run swing like Cam over a never-done-nothin like Dalton or Mariota or Bridgewater or Carr any day of the week.
They have no money for someone like Cam Newton who will still want to be paid. I would rather roll with Stidham over a declining Cam Newton.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

posts way less than 18% useful shit
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2010
14,476
I already think I know the answer, but I'm hoping someone more optimistic can chime in:

Any way someone in the top 12ish trades Thuney+our first for their first? Maybe BB has his eye on someone in the draft?
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
42,839
AZ
I already think I know the answer, but I'm hoping someone more optimistic can chime in:

Any way someone in the top 12ish trades Thuney+our first for their first? Maybe BB has his eye on someone in the draft?
I think the problem is you never know what will happen above you with QBs and so you need to wait for the day of. Even if you think the fourth guy on the board — Eason in this case I guess — will be there at 10 you just are never safe where QBs are concerned.

So I think they would need to get into the top 5 if Tua or Herbert is on their radar, or have the flexibility to trade on the day. Thuney as a day 1 trade on the fly seems like a tough thing to pull off but not impossible I guess.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,670
Imagine if BB signed Jameis and his Lasik surgery reduces the turnovers and he wins a SB? Taste the W indeed.
I wouldn't want to go in that direction, but Winston has gobs of talent. He makes a ton of errors of course, which is why I wouldn't want him. But oodles (yes, gobs and oodles) of talent. If he could be had fairly cheaply, he might offer significantly more upside than Stidham. And he's still young.
 

Harry Hooper

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
34,605
Really feels like it will be Bortles as the veteran competition to Stidham.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,314
I wouldn't want to go in that direction, but Winston has gobs of talent. He makes a ton of errors of course, which is why I wouldn't want him. But oodles (yes, gobs and oodles) of talent. If he could be had fairly cheaply, he might offer significantly more upside than Stidham. And he's still young.
The ghost of Myra hates this idea.
 

MainerInExile

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Nov 21, 2003
4,825
Bay Area
There seem to be more veteran QBs than jobs, so at least one QB will be left without a chair when the music stops. A one-year deal from NE would look pretty good as a way to prove value. It'll come cheap. The Pats are also almost certain to draft a QB. May be high, may be low, but I think you can take it to the bank. So I see the Pats going into camp with Stidham, a veteran, and a draft pick. Open competition.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,217
There seem to be more veteran QBs than jobs, so at least one QB will be left without a chair when the music stops. A one-year deal from NE would look pretty good as a way to prove value. It'll come cheap. The Pats are also almost certain to draft a QB. May be high, may be low, but I think you can take it to the bank. So I see the Pats going into camp with Stidham, a veteran, and a draft pick. Open competition.
Will there even be an NFL training camp this year? Definitely no rookie camps.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,314
People aren’t serious about Winston are they? In addition to him being terrible with great weapons, he followed up a rape accusation in college with a sexual assault of an Uber driver 2 years ago.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,670
People aren’t serious about Winston are they? In addition to him being terrible with great weapons, he followed up a rape accusation in college with a sexual assault of an Uber driver 2 years ago.
What do you mean by “people aren’t serious about Winston”? For me, I mentioned that he has tons of talent but that I wouldn’t want them to sign him. So does that count as “being serious about Winston”?
 

Soxy

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2008
6,095
I think it's been posted somewhere in this forum before, but probably worth re-posting in this thread:

https://theathletic.com/1657865/2020/03/06/jarrett-stidham-patriots-jordan-palmer/?article_source=search&search_query=stidham
Jordan Palmer is obviously biased, as he's been Stidham's throwing coach, but he doesn't mince words. He loves Stidham and thinks he's going to be a star.

Jordan Palmer, who has worked as Stidham’s longtime throwing coach, believes the Patriots already have another franchise quarterback in their system.

“To be clear, I think he is a star, and he is going to be a big-time franchise quarterback,” Palmer said, unprompted. “I have felt that way for a couple years now. I’m totally fine saying that. I don’t care that he went fourth round (of the 2019 draft). I think he is legitimate. He is going to be the leader of New England for a long time, whenever that starts. Go ahead and jump on that bandwagon.”
Stidham is also anything but a finished product, and Palmer explained his primary focus, both last year and into this offseason.

“He had so far to go to get caught up mentally for the NFL basically because he played for Art Briles’ offense (at Baylor) and Gus Malzahn’s offense (at Auburn) — two offenses that have very little correlation to what happens in the NFL,” Palmer said. “It has nothing to do with (Stidham’s) intelligence level. Clearly, he’s intelligent. It was due to his exposure at the college level, and that’s not an indictment on those two offenses. Art Briles had a ton of success at Baylor, and Gus Malzahn is a national champion and has a great program. It’s just that there’s not a ton of carryover from those offenses to the NFL, so (Stidham) really had a long way to go to get caught up to where that offense is in New England. Brady has 20 years in that offense, right?

“For (Stidham), if he can really get mechanically sound, and really get the play-action footwork, and all the different newness of not just being in (shot)gun every snap like he was in college, if he can create muscle memory in those areas, it allows him to have more time and more, what I call, mental bars of energy to be able to commit to all the stuff New England asks him to do pre-snap — getting them in the right play, reading things really quickly. So it’s nothing crazy or anything that’s never been done before. It’s essentially building repetition on those things.”

We'll get a pretty good idea if Belichick agrees with Palmer's assessment by seeing what the Pats do with the QB position through free agency. (They'll almost certainly draft a QB regardless of how much they like Stidham, because they did that all the time even with Brady.)
 
Last edited:

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,650
Really feels like it will be Bortles as the veteran competition to Stidham.
Bortles could be pretty good. As a comp, he was basically the exact same QB as Dak Prescott for about 20+ games encompassing the 2017 season and the first half of 2018. Then Dak improved while Bortles fell off a cliff.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
25,948
Los Angeles, CA
What do you mean by “people aren’t serious about Winston”? For me, I mentioned that he has tons of talent but that I wouldn’t want them to sign him. So does that count as “being serious about Winston”?
He certainly has a talent for throwing the ball to the wrong team. Can you imagine going from the accurate efficiency of Brady to Winston? Yikes.
 

NomarsFool

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 21, 2001
8,234
The Patriots definitely love having competition, but with the salaries the veteran QBs are getting, it's really hard to imagine there's a good fit out there. I don't see the Patriots trading draft capital for anyone, and then it seems like absolutely everyone is getting >$15 million/year. How would it make sense to pay somebody >$15 million a year if they could end up being Stidham's back-up? Is there anyone out there that would be in the $5 million range? If not, I think they just draft a QB or two to compete with Stidham.
 

Harry Hooper

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
34,605
The Patriots definitely love having competition, but with the salaries the veteran QBs are getting, it's really hard to imagine there's a good fit out there. I don't see the Patriots trading draft capital for anyone, and then it seems like absolutely everyone is getting >$15 million/year. How would it make sense to pay somebody >$15 million a year if they could end up being Stidham's back-up? Is there anyone out there that would be in the $5 million range? If not, I think they just draft a QB or two to compete with Stidham.
Bortles signed a $1 mil contract to be the Rams backup QB last year. {Yes, he was still getting checks from the Jaguars.}
 

TripleOT

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2007
7,770
Winston threw for the most yards in the league, and might not have a landing spot due to his propensity for throwing TD passes to the other team's defense. As mentioned above, he's only 26 and has all the physical tools to be a true franchise QB. He had a lot of weapons last season, and if the rumors of the Bucs adding Brandin Cooks and Todd Gurley become reality, Brady will light up the league, assuming he hasn't fallen off the cliff.