2020 Pats: Roster & Beyond (non-QB edition)

tims4wins

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Wonder what Sony's market would be. He's still cheap for a couple years. If they could sign Fournette and trade Sony for a mid-round pick I'd do it. Then even if Fournette leaves give the reigns to Harris.
 

kwa1430

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Fournette on prove it deal would be a great low risk, high reward patriot move. Do you think this could result in trading Sony? Not sure if they can get anything for him.
 

BigSoxFan

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Fournette on prove it deal would be a great low risk, high reward patriot move. Do you think this could result in trading Sony? Not sure if they can get anything for him.
It would be like a 6th round pick, if that. But that would be fine with me if Fournette is coming in. Sony is barely replacement level RB these days.
 

Soxy

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I'm starting to come around to the idea of Fournette, if nothing else because he's shown the ability to catch the ball out of the backfield, which Sony has not. A one-to-one swap of him in and Sony out seems like an upgrade, at least solely based on what they do on the football field. As others have mentioned, there's been some off-field stuff with Fournette that I have no idea whether or not should be concerning, but the Pats probably do. If Fournette is going to be a locker room problem then he's obviously not worth the time.

I expect this Pats team to run the ball a lot and use a lot of two back sets, so it's going to be very important to have a loaded stable of healthy, effective running backs. It's been discussed in other threads, but I agree with other posters that this offense could struggle if they can't run the ball, fall behind, and have to throw out of 11 personnel to catch up. Especially in the early going.

Belichick always wants to get out to a lead and dictate terms to his opponent, but it seems even more important this season to be playing from ahead. Cam can do a lot of special things, but he's not really the kind of QB that you want to just put in shotgun and have him sling it 40-50 times, like Brady would do when needed. The running game will need to be a viable threat as often as possible in order for this offense to be successful.
 

BaseballJones

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It would be like a 6th round pick, if that. But that would be fine with me if Fournette is coming in. Sony is barely replacement level RB these days.
Upgrading at RB while adding a 6th round pick, while having Harris waiting in the wings....that would be a pretty fantastic sequence by BB if it were to happen. I know they spent a first rounder on Sony and he has to be considered an overall disappointment, but he did give the team a tremendous playoff run and he was an absolutely key contributor to a SB-winning team. So yeah, if they can do this, sign me up.
 

Harry Hooper

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If Fournette is not able and willing to pass-protect, then BB bringing him onto the roster would be surprising.
 

DourDoerr

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Upgrading at RB while adding a 6th round pick, while having Harris waiting in the wings....that would be a pretty fantastic sequence by BB if it were to happen. I know they spent a first rounder on Sony and he has to be considered an overall disappointment, but he did give the team a tremendous playoff run and he was an absolutely key contributor to a SB-winning team. So yeah, if they can do this, sign me up.
While acknowledging the 6th round pick is entirely speculative, this would simply be a classic series of BB-era moves. Getting high production during a Super Bowl playoff run, then cutting bait when that same player can't provide consistency while adding an upgrade at minimal cost is how this dynasty keeps moving forward. My understanding is the off-field stuff includes a tendency of Fournette to be late to practice, so I'm guessing Fournette would be on best behavior given his contract situation. A perfect alignment of interests.
If Fournette is not able and willing to pass-protect, then BB bringing him onto the roster would be surprising.
Wouldn't they be using Fournette mostly on 1st and 2nd down though? If they were to be passing on either down, I'd imagine he might be the primary target.
 

BaseballJones

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Sanu just got cut. This opens up another $6 million of cap space. Precursor to a bigger move?
 

DourDoerr

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I may be a little pessimistic, but 2020 is shaping up as a real good year for the Pats to play in an empty stadium.
Hadn't thought of this until now. Are the Pats better equipped than other teams to play without the emotion that a crowd creates? Have they traditionally fed off the crowd more or less than most teams? This could be an advantage for a prepared veteran team. For very different reasons, I think a similar dynamic is helping the young Celts in the NBA.
 

SMU_Sox

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Aside from 2006 I think this is the worst WR group they have ever gone into a season with. They need all their year 2 guys to make huge strides for them even to be an average group. Not to mention that they are relying on a geriatric and injury prone WR and if Jules is out they would be competing for the worst WR group in the league (barring massive leaps from Harry, Meyers, Gunner, and Ross or Byrd going off). Not a pretty picture.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Wonder what Sony's market would be. He's still cheap for a couple years. If they could sign Fournette and trade Sony for a mid-round pick I'd do it. Then even if Fournette leaves give the reigns to Harris.
It's moot now of course, but I'd find it hard to believe they could have gotten a mid round (assuming you meant like a 4 or 5) for Michel. He's a perfectly fungible guy with injury issues and we all know how much RBs are valued these days, with a few exceptions. He essentially has one nice playoff run to his resume.
 

tims4wins

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It's moot now of course, but I'd find it hard to believe they could have gotten a mid round (assuming you meant like a 4 or 5) for Michel. He's a perfectly fungible guy with injury issues and we all know how much RBs are valued these days, with a few exceptions. He essentially has one nice playoff run to his resume.
Yeah you’re probably right that you’re looking at maybe a conditional 6th or something
 

BaseballJones

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It's moot now of course, but I'd find it hard to believe they could have gotten a mid round (assuming you meant like a 4 or 5) for Michel. He's a perfectly fungible guy with injury issues and we all know how much RBs are valued these days, with a few exceptions. He essentially has one nice playoff run to his resume.
His rookie year he had 209 carries for 931 yards, good for a 4.5 average. And then he had a really fantastic playoff run. That's a very good rookie season on the whole. And last year, at the end of the year (last 3 games plus playoffs), he played very well.

19 att, 89 yds, 4.7 avg
21 att, 96 yds, 4.6 avg
18 att, 74 yds, 4.1 avg
14 att, 61 yds, 4.4 avg

72 att, 320 yds, 4.4 avg

He's not any kind of pro-bowl runner, but he has had more than "one nice playoff run to his resume".
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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His rookie year he had 209 carries for 931 yards, good for a 4.5 average. And then he had a really fantastic playoff run. That's a very good rookie season on the whole. And last year, at the end of the year (last 3 games plus playoffs), he played very well.

19 att, 89 yds, 4.7 avg
21 att, 96 yds, 4.6 avg
18 att, 74 yds, 4.1 avg
14 att, 61 yds, 4.4 avg

72 att, 320 yds, 4.4 avg

He's not any kind of pro-bowl runner, but he has had more than "one nice playoff run to his resume".
He can’t catch out of the backfield, is an average at best blocker in passing and averaging 80yds a game over the last four games means very little imho. His rookie season his numbers were fine but behind the way that line played, mostly anyone ambulatory could average 4.5 yds (it’s hyperbole; I don’t need you to analyze every back in the league). I feel pretty safe to say the bulk of his value so far - and the general forgiveness he got after his rookie season - rest on the shoulders of those playoffs. Ymmv

He’s the same age as Fournette, who just was on the street - considering the debate was signing Fournette and trading Michel as an upgrade, I feel safe saying he’s not Fournette. Add in his injuries and about the only thing impressive about him was the playoff run, otherwise he’s a dime a dozen. Breida just got a 5th; Howard a conditional 6th. Gordon, Gurley and Fournette were FAs.

Edit: it was a bad pick and a reach when taken. Especially with his teammate right there.
 

BaseballJones

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He can’t catch out of the backfield, is an average at best blocker in passing and averaging 80yds a game over the last four games means very little imho. His rookie season his numbers were fine but behind the way that line played, mostly anyone ambulatory could average 4.5 yds (it’s hyperbole; I don’t need you to analyze every back in the league). He’s the same age as Fournette, who just was on the street - considering the debate was signing Fournette and trading Michel as an upgrade, I feel safe saying he’s not Fournette. Add in his injuries and about the only thing impressive about him was the playoff run, otherwise he’s a dime a dozen. Breida just got a 5th; Howard a conditional 6th. Gordon, Gurley and Fournette were FAs.
Totally agree he's not Fournette. I wanted them to sign Fournette and trade Sony. I was just saying that he's got more on his pro resumé than "one nice playoff run". Because his rookie year, he was really solid all the way through the regular season, and then obviously fantastic in the playoffs. Money time.
 

SMU_Sox

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Sony is good in pass pro. It’s about the only thing he is actually good at. His elusiveness and yards after contact last year were among the lowest in the league and he hasn’t developed as a receiver. If he was too heavy and injured last year that explains a lot. Right now his trade value is at its nadir. Personally I think we see a slight rebound from him this year but he splits time with Harris.
 

SMU_Sox

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Fair enough, I remember him coming out being labeled as average at it, but I could easily be mistaken. Statement withdrawn.
I wrote my post when your message hadn’t loaded yet for me (I didn’t load new replies). It was purely coincidence that you typed that. I was just trying to sum up Sony and his trade value
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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I wrote my post when your message hadn’t loaded yet for me (I didn’t load new replies). It was purely coincidence that you typed that. I was just trying to sum up Sony and his trade value
Gotcha. I’ll still obviously defer to you on pass pro as I don’t watch film, but sounds like otherwise we’re on same page regarding overall value on the market.
 

SMU_Sox

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The one guy I am pulling for the most today is my binkie Onwenu. Hoping he survives the cuts. Thomas should be a PS talent based on his tape and athleticism. I would love to see him and JJ Taylor make it.
 

Mystic Merlin

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The one guy I am pulling for the most today is my binkie Onwenu. Hoping he survives the cuts. Thomas should be a PS talent based on his tape and athleticism. I would love to see him and JJ Taylor make it.
Thomas is a perfect PS candidate, even if he can’t graduate to the active roster he can get tons of reps and act as a scout team stand-in for the burners their secondary will likely face like Tyreek or Brown.
 

SMU_Sox

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Two receivers they could kick the tires on are Damion Ratley who has back to back 200 yards receiving seasons and is young (cut by CLE) and one of the guys I liked a lot from the 2019 draft but had some reservations on, Hakeem Butler cut by the cards. Both guys are fast. Butler has some issues with his hands, route running, and getting off of contact. His flashes are some of the best you would see but he was so inconsistent from down to down.
 

bsj

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Remarkably weak group of WR cut loose so far. Sanu is by far the biggest name out there short of Demaryius who we clearly have tried already.
 

amfox1

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He’s an upgrade over Meyers and (probably) Gunner. I agree with Doug in that I hope they seriously consider him. Ross didn’t even have an NFL reception.
Ratley was used almost exclusively as a deep threat up the right sideline and didn't contribute on special teams. Pass.