Tompa Bay: Tom Tom club

amRadio

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Was definitely a missed opportunity to mention pliability.
*golf clap*


I think my rushmore would have to be Bird, Brady, Pedro and Ortiz. Gronkowski, Pierce, and Lester are tough omissions, but ultimately I wouldn't put any of them up there for different reasons. Pierce maybe is the closest to feeling like he belongs of all honorable mentions/close omissions people have in this thread.
 

Caspir

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My “Rushmore” has three easy spots with Brady, Pedro and Papi with the fourth slot going to Pierce. I could swap out the Truth for Bruschi, Troy Brown, Manny, or Ty Law and not feel any type of way, but Pierce was the guy in Boston during some dark days so I give him a bump for sticking it out. Not to mention the whole getting stabbed them coming back. Surprised nobody mentioned AV at all. Big kicks, long term Patriot etc.

Looking at the stats, Brady was better today but Gronk looks like shit. If he were a horse they’d be erecting the euthanasia tent to put him down.
 

DJnVa

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I think we ended up trading the pick we got for Gronk, but if we used any part of it to get a guy that spent even 1 day in training camp---well, at this point it still looks like we got better value.
 

SamK

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I am reminded of Chapman's use in Chicago in 2016* although not obvious high leverage situation(s) for the Bucs (NB an NFL coach who resorts to blame shifting in the press might be feeling some pressure)
I expected Gronk to be used on many fewer snaps than he has for TB. Gronk is in there throwing what weight he has left around nearly offensive snap that I've seen. He has thrown some key blocks, but, his use doesn't seem strategic. Gronk's use is practical/tactical. To be fair, Bill would just say "the best players play." But Arians seems--desperate.
FWIW, I thought the PI was legit, Ferm Sheller. In real time it looked like a beaten defender pulled Gronk's right bicep. Looked that way to my wife, too. Full disclosure we were rooting for our former heroes, so, might have been the red, silver, and blue glasses.
*I remember an exchange between Joe and Aroldis, might have been Game 6, where you could see how little Joe cared about the player. He was going to use what his organization had bought (at a dear price) a contractual right to.
 

Ed Hillel

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Tom threw for 17 yards in the second half yesterday, so two straight games he started hot then tailed off. Let’s see if this becomes a pattern.
 

ehaz

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PFF: Tom Brady is Nowhere Close to Being Washed Up

It’s easy to look at Brady’s box score stats and just assume he’s gone down the drain. After all, he’s averaging just 6.4 yards per attempt with a 65% completion percentage, and he now has three interceptions in two games. However, the fact of the matter is that it goes a lot deeper than that.

Brady topped his solid debut as a Buccaneer in Week 1 (77.8 PFF grade) by posting an 89.2 PFF grade in Week 2 against Carolina, the second-best of the week. He also tied for the most big-time throws (four) of the week and ranked fifth in the percentage of accurate passes thrown. On throws of 10 yards or more, Brady threw six of 10 such passes perfectly, according to PFF’s ball-location data. And of those 10 passes, four of them were dropped by his receiving unit. In total, Brady finished the day with seven dropped passes, two more than any other quarterback.

So far this season, Brady is tied for the most big-time throws in the NFL, with nine, and his receiving unit has dropped 36.4% of the accurate passes thrown 10 or more yards downfield (worst in NFL by eight percentage points). Brady has had a lot of yards and a few scores left off the box score this season because of drops or defensive pass interference. While his traditional stats don’t suggest it, Brady is outplaying most quarterbacks in the NFL right now.
 

johnmd20

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PFF: Tom Brady is Nowhere Close to Being Washed Up

It’s easy to look at Brady’s box score stats and just assume he’s gone down the drain. After all, he’s averaging just 6.4 yards per attempt with a 65% completion percentage, and he now has three interceptions in two games. However, the fact of the matter is that it goes a lot deeper than that.

Brady topped his solid debut as a Buccaneer in Week 1 (77.8 PFF grade) by posting an 89.2 PFF grade in Week 2 against Carolina, the second-best of the week. He also tied for the most big-time throws (four) of the week and ranked fifth in the percentage of accurate passes thrown. On throws of 10 yards or more, Brady threw six of 10 such passes perfectly, according to PFF’s ball-location data. And of those 10 passes, four of them were dropped by his receiving unit. In total, Brady finished the day with seven dropped passes, two more than any other quarterback.

So far this season, Brady is tied for the most big-time throws in the NFL, with nine, and his receiving unit has dropped 36.4% of the accurate passes thrown 10 or more yards downfield (worst in NFL by eight percentage points). Brady has had a lot of yards and a few scores left off the box score this season because of drops or defensive pass interference. While his traditional stats don’t suggest it, Brady is outplaying most quarterbacks in the NFL right now.
Those drops yesterday were absolutely brutal. And that drop stat (36.4% is comically high) is something else.
 

Traut

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I'm pretty much here as well.

I've dealt with a lot of pro athletes in my life, and most are assholes. Even given that, I get the sense that Brady is at the high end of that scale. I could tolerate him on the Pats, but have no reason to now.
I don’t recall a single story about him being an asshole in his 20 years in Boston. Not one.

Most of the stories we got about him were things like he was just another one of the dads watching his kids play youth sports and stuff. Sure it could have been planted. But we got zero to the contrary.

A colleague used to live next door to him in Back Bay. She said he was humble and unassuming.

He’s a pro athlete and I get it but we heard no stories of him mistreating staff of any kind anywhere.
 

Van Everyman

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Those drops yesterday were absolutely brutal. And that drop stat (36.4% is comically high) is something else.
I said it last week but he looks exactly the same as last year to my eyes. And I thought that last year he was really betrayed by the OL (Andrews’ absence mostly) and crappy weapons. In general I expect him to have a better year this season but with some bumps and bruises as he gets to know his teammates on an expedited, in-season basis.
 

lexrageorge

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In the FWIW department, Teddy Bridgewater becomes the 115th QB to be beaten by Tom Brady at least once in his career.

With Lock's injury, Jeff Driskell is now lined up to be the 123rd QB that Brady has faced, unless Blake Bortles is unexpectedly named the starter for Sunday.
 

lexrageorge

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Probably good trivia to name the 7 players he faced and didn't beat. I haven't got a clue.
Well, Cam Newton is one of them. He's on the even smaller list of players who've faced Brady multiple times without losing.
Jake Plummer: 3-0 against Brady!!
Brian Griese and Cam Newton: 2-0

Kevin Kolb, Patrick Ramsey, Lamar Jackson, and friggin' Nick Foles have all won their only career start against Brady.

EDIT: There are 77 QB's that have never beaten Brady. Philip Rivers (0-8) and Andrew Luck (0-6) top the list; there are 46 QB's that are 0-1 against Brady.
 

Leather

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It may end ok for Brady, and for Tampa, but I don't think it's going to end well for Gronk.
I think he'll just have a low key season and retire. He probably just enjoys the experience of being on a team; it's what feels natural to him. If he doesn't have to bust his ass trying to get open and grapple with DBs for loose balls (and possibly injuring himself again), maybe that's just fine?
 

tims4wins

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I think he'll just have a low key season and retire. He probably just enjoys the experience of being on a team; it's what feels natural to him. If he doesn't have to bust his ass trying to get open and grapple with DBs for loose balls (and possibly injuring himself again), maybe that's just fine?
Maybe. Seems boring for a guy like Gronk.
 

Leather

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Maybe. Seems boring for a guy like Gronk.
Perhaps, but I think it's telling that he was willing to play, but not for New England anymore. I think he just wants to be around the game and contributing; doesn't care about being a superstar anymore.

He brings to mind Johnny Damon a bit, where Damon just wanted to be around the game, even if he didn't get to be JOHNNY DAMON anymore. Or Wes Welker, or Ricky Henderson. For some guys, that's the life they enjoy; what happens on the field is almost just the excuse needed to hang around the game as long as you can.
 
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I think he’s just trying to be a good soldier. Regardless of how his role this season will evolve or how well he will look playing it, this to me is just Gronk having a good attitude. Hoping for better things, Gronk-wise.

edit: clarity
 

BigSoxFan

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I still see no reason why he shouldn’t be a red zone factor still. I’m also glad he’s just blocking. I don’t want to see safeties teeing off on him over the middle anymore. Let Howard/Brate take those blasts.
 

EvilEmpire

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I think he'll have a few moments during the season where he flashes some of his old skills. But low-level on field contributions and hanging out with his boy in an environment where not much is demanded from him is probably fun for him at this stage in his career.

I can also see him doing some mentoring for the other guys and helping them to adjust to Brady as QB, too. That might not be something that we can ever look at tape and point to as an accomplishment, but if he's doing it, there is some satisfaction there as well.
 
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jsinger121

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He has 10 million reasons to play this season even if he coasts his way to the end.
 

snowmanny

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At the end with the Patriots it seemed as of Gronk was a great blocking TE, and then there would be usually just one drive a game where impossible to defend Gronk would emerge and that drive would result in a score.
 

Shelterdog

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I still see no reason why he shouldn’t be a red zone factor still. I’m also glad he’s just blocking. I don’t want to see safeties teeing off on him over the middle anymore. Let Howard/Brate take those blasts.
Because he's longer fast or strong or explosive?
 

tims4wins

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Interesting ESPN+ article on the Bucs passing game

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/29961000/bruce-arians-adapted-bucs-offense-fit-tom-brady-maybe-not-how-think
View: https://twitter.com/SethWalder/status/1309248405781336064


That rebalancing of routes? It actually brings Tampa Bay's route rates remarkably in line with the 2019 Patriots. The Bucs are running deep outs, digs, short outside routes and pivots all at rates that are within 1 percentage point of the rate the Patriots ran each of them last season.

There are differences -- the Patriots ran crossing routes about 6 percentage points more often than the 2020 Bucs, and the 2020 Bucs run verticals about 6 percentage points more often than the last year's Patriots. But among the routes whose usages have significantly changed for Arians from last season to this, most have been brought into line with the offense Brady ran a season ago. Ultimately, the overall distribution of routes run by this Bucs team looks like something of a compromise between what the 2019 Bucs and 2019 Patriots ran.
 

Shelterdog

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He’s 6’6 with sticky hands. There’s still a role for him in the end zone.
I'm not saying that he has no role in the end zone (and he can be particularly useful in goalline) , I'm just skeptical he can be, as you originally said, a "red zone factor." First and ten at the 17, are you more worried about him than you a league average TE?
 

RedOctober3829

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deep inside Guido territory

Bowhemian

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I think he’s just trying to be a good soldier. Regardless of how his role this season will evolve or how well he will look playing it, this to me is just Gronk having a good attitude. Hoping for better things, Gronk-wise.

edit: clarity
I’m with you. I highly doubt TBay would pay him that much cash to be only a blocking TE.
 

BigSoxFan

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I'm not saying that he has no role in the end zone (and he can be particularly useful in goalline) , I'm just skeptical he can be, as you originally said, a "red zone factor." First and ten at the 17, are you more worried about him than you a league average TE?
Aren’t league average TEs factors though? Not sure we really disagree here.

He’s definitely not GRONK anymore. Not even close. But the guy is experienced and has a rapport with Brady, which defenses need to account for. Basically, if I’m a DC, I’m still more concerned with Brady/Gronk than I would be with, say, Cam/Izzo in the same situation.

Additionally, given the presence of Evans/Howard/Godwin, TB may be able to get Gronk into more favorable matchups than he’s accustomed to seeing. They haven’t yet but I’m sure they’re still trying to cook up ways to have him be more impactful. His physical limitations will obviously limit what they can do.

I’m hopeful he looks better over time as he rounds into form because he did look awful in Week 1.
 

Euclis20

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Yeah, guys don't normally get fresher as the season goes on.
This is true, although considering his circumstances (retired for a year, new team for the first time ever, no preseason) if anyone would ever get better as the season goes on, it would be Gronk this year.