2021-22 76ers thread: Going for it all

benhogan

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What was the best non-Harden offer the Sixers had for him? Was Halliburton on the table at any point?
Heaven help them if they turned down Haliburton. At this point, there are probably a dozen trades they turned down for Ben Simmons that would have worked out better this season and future seasons

Courtside tickets going for $1100 a pop on secondary market for Wednesday’s Harden debut in Philly.
How quickly do Philly fans turn on James if Joel can't play in Games 3 & 4? This could get ugly
they look good, excitement should be high

I wouldn't be shocked to see Morey attach a pick to Tobias and ship him to OKC this summer.

Maxey looks like a promising 3rd wheel
I was guilty of buying into the initial hype after their first game :eek:

The good news for the Sixers is that if there's anyone you can trust to be ready come playoff time, it's James Harden.
prescient
 

scottyno

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I have no idea what the sixers do this offseason. Unless they can find a way to dump Harris for nothing they're almost forced to bring Harden back. I'm not sure if paying Harden a max or losing him for nothing and not being able to replace him because you're still capped out is worse for a team that needs to take advantage of the next few years while Embiid is still in his prime.

Things get even worse if Green's injury is bad enough to keep him out next year.
 

Devizier

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From a roster perspective it probably helps the Nets even if Simmons never does anything meaningful again. His dead salary is a lot easier to clear than Harden’s (potential) live one.
 

joe dokes

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From a roster perspective it probably helps the Nets even if Simmons never does anything meaningful again. His dead salary is a lot easier to clear than Harden’s (potential) live one.
I suppose it's less bad for them, but when the players they gave up left the exact holes that helped them get swept, it isnt much.
 

Saints Rest

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I have no idea what the sixers do this offseason. Unless they can find a way to dump Harris for nothing they're almost forced to bring Harden back. I'm not sure if paying Harden a max or losing him for nothing and not being able to replace him because you're still capped out is worse for a team that needs to take advantage of the next few years while Embiid is still in his prime.

Things get even worse if Green's injury is bad enough to keep him out next year.
Which seemingly unavoidable super-max new contract will be more painful going forward: Harden or Kyrie?
 

Cellar-Door

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I suppose it's less bad for them, but when the players they gave up left the exact holes that helped them get swept, it isnt much.
That is the 1st Harden trade, the BKN/PHI one gave them a solid shooter in Curry, and Drummond, Milsap was washed so no loss there.

I think BKN won the trade to the extent anyone did, they got useful role players and picks, Harden was disinterested and leaving, and cap space means nothing to them given their salaries anyway.

BKN's big problem is the trade they made to GET Harden looks terrible unless Simmons returns as the type of player he was a couple seasons back
 

HomeRunBaker

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I have no idea what the sixers do this offseason. Unless they can find a way to dump Harris for nothing they're almost forced to bring Harden back. I'm not sure if paying Harden a max or losing him for nothing and not being able to replace him because you're still capped out is worse for a team that needs to take advantage of the next few years while Embiid is still in his prime.

Things get even worse if Green's injury is bad enough to keep him out next year.
Woj all but said that Green’s injury would keep him out next year. It sounds like the MRI is to confirm the failed Lachman test.
 

benhogan

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From a roster perspective it probably helps the Nets even if Simmons never does anything meaningful again. His dead salary is a lot easier to clear than Harden’s (potential) live one.
If I'm the Kings I offer Barnes/Holmes(toast) for Simmons and see if the Nets bite.

Ben may just need a low-key/no-pressure environment.

Lottery teams gambling on Ben Simmons with some of their own vets isn't a bad approach to resurrecting Simmon's career IMO.

Houston could offer Wood/Gordon
Detroit could offer Kelly O/Jerami Grant
 

Cellar-Door

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They don't guarantee for injury? that blows for players if that's the case
Not that I'm aware of, but part of that is because most NBA contracts are fully guaranteed, non-guaranteed years can only be the last year of a deal, it's kind of like a team option.

Edit- looked it up, no full injury guarantee on non-guaranteed contracts since 2011. Of course very few guys have non-guaranteed deals, and it's only for early season or pre-season on the last year od the deal since every deal becomes fully guaranteed on certain dates (ie why the Celtics waived Jabari when they did).
 

djbayko

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I have no idea what the sixers do this offseason. Unless they can find a way to dump Harris for nothing they're almost forced to bring Harden back. I'm not sure if paying Harden a max or losing him for nothing and not being able to replace him because you're still capped out is worse for a team that needs to take advantage of the next few years while Embiid is still in his prime.

Things get even worse if Green's injury is bad enough to keep him out next year.
Get Harden to find Jesus and hire a live-in trainer.
 

Cellar-Door

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Embiid has to be one of the least wanted teammates ever right? Like guys like him on twitter, bet he's a good hang when you see him at All-Star or out on the town, but would you want to be on his team? He throws every player, coach, exec he can under the bus every time they fail, and takes zero responsibility on himself. He'll spend like 40 minutes outlining how much everyone else sucks, making passive agressive compliments (like saying how great it was that Morey got Curry and Drummond... two guys now on the Nets), then at the end be like "oh and I could be better too". Just an elite bad vibes co-worker.
I mean if you're a star, you want to sign up for that? He's great, maybe you suck it up, but man it's not going to be fun.
 

Senator Donut

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Embiid has to be one of the least wanted teammates ever right? Like guys like him on twitter, bet he's a good hang when you see him at All-Star or out on the town, but would you want to be on his team? He throws every player, coach, exec he can under the bus every time they fail, and takes zero responsibility on himself. He'll spend like 40 minutes outlining how much everyone else sucks, making passive agressive compliments (like saying how great it was that Morey got Curry and Drummond... two guys now on the Nets), then at the end be like "oh and I could be better too". Just an elite bad vibes co-worker.
I mean if you're a star, you want to sign up for that? He's great, maybe you suck it up, but man it's not going to be fun.
With the stipulation that this is pretty much my personal speculation, Embiid definitely seems like the sycophantic employee at your job that you can't stand. He has gone out of the way to ingratiate himself to management, Hinkie especially for example adopting the process nickname for himself, right up to the point that they are no longer needed. Actually, this could help explain the Butler exit I've been relitigating in the other thread.
 

EvilEmpire

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Between Harden being terrible and Embiid missing two games and being banged up due to injury, I don't think firing Doc Rivers makes much sense.

And of course the Heat are a good team.
 

BigSoxFan

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Between Harden being terrible and Embiid missing two games and being banged up due to injury, I don't think firing Doc Rivers makes much sense.

And of course the Heat are a good team.
I’d be curious to see how the Sixers would do with a guy like Atkinson though.
 

CreightonGubanich

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Embiid has to be one of the least wanted teammates ever right? Like guys like him on twitter, bet he's a good hang when you see him at All-Star or out on the town, but would you want to be on his team? He throws every player, coach, exec he can under the bus every time they fail, and takes zero responsibility on himself. He'll spend like 40 minutes outlining how much everyone else sucks, making passive agressive compliments (like saying how great it was that Morey got Curry and Drummond... two guys now on the Nets), then at the end be like "oh and I could be better too". Just an elite bad vibes co-worker.
I mean if you're a star, you want to sign up for that? He's great, maybe you suck it up, but man it's not going to be fun.
I don't know, he's probably bluntly honest in a way that's counterproductive to his own relationships with teammates and coaches, but he's hardly ever wrong in his assessments. It's kind of Embiid's thing. He's going to be completely transparent and doesn't care about the consequences.

I'm hard pressed to remember a franchise mismanaging the prime of a superstar player this badly. Even though Embiid has played with good players, they've never built the team around maximizing his talents. They held on too long to a square peg in a round hole in Simmons, rather than trade for players that would complement Embiid, and the one real co-star he did have they passed on retaining. When you consider all the assets they had to construct a championship roster around him, it's an absolute travesty that the Sixers are in this position, and I frankly don't blame Embiid if he gets a little publicly salty about it.
 

Cellar-Door

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I don't know, he's probably bluntly honest in a way that's counterproductive to his own relationships with teammates and coaches, but he's hardly ever wrong in his assessments. It's kind of Embiid's thing. He's going to be completely transparent and doesn't care about the consequences.

I'm hard pressed to remember a franchise mismanaging the prime of a superstar player this badly. Even though Embiid has played with good players, they've never built the team around maximizing his talents. They held on too long to a square peg in a round hole in Simmons, rather than trade for players that would complement Embiid, and the one real co-star he did have they passed on retaining. When you consider all the assets they had to construct a championship roster around him, it's an absolute travesty that the Sixers are in this position, and I frankly don't blame Embiid if he gets a little publicly salty about it.
Lots of teams have been managed worse honestly. If Jimmy Butler was on this team...... he'd be forcing up midrange shots in a crowd with Embiid floating around. Then they'd lose in the 2nd round, and Embiid would say "we have too many guys in the paint, guys need to take 3s." after he put up 24/12/1 with 8 turnovers
 

EvilEmpire

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I’d be curious to see how the Sixers would do with a guy like Atkinson though.
I would too. I don't think Doc is bad, but I do think Atkinson is a lot better.

I don't know, he's probably bluntly honest in a way that's counterproductive to his own relationships with teammates and coaches, but he's hardly ever wrong in his assessments. It's kind of Embiid's thing. He's going to be completely transparent and doesn't care about the consequences.
Embiid is an asshole and he should keep comments like that within the locker room. But yeah, he isn't wrong. At least not when talking about Simmons and Harden who don't put in the work or pull their own weight. But he's still an asshole.

Wish he was on the Knicks.
 

scottyno

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Which seemingly unavoidable super-max new contract will be more painful going forward: Harden or Kyrie?
Harden is 2 years older so probably him. If the nets get Simmons and Harris back they're a top team. If the sixers retain the current squad, likely minus green, they still don't really look like a contender with this version of Harden.
 

the moops

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Which seemingly unavoidable super-max new contract will be more painful going forward: Harden or Kyrie?
I don't think there is a chance that both these guys get the super max. In fact, i wouldn't be surprised if neither do. Well, obviously there is a chance because NBA execs make bad choices sometimes, but I think Harden takes his option and they kick the decision down the road a year, and I think Kyrie signs for less than the max
 

EvilEmpire

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What is the best case for Philly next season?

1) They don't offer an extension.
2) Harden takes his option.
3) Motivated, Harden actually busts his ass in the off season and regains some of that missing athletic ability.

Something like that? One and two are plausible. Three is probably a fantasy. But it would be interesting.
 

Senator Donut

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What is the best case for Philly next season?

1) They don't offer an extension.
2) Harden takes his option.
3) Motivated, Harden actually busts his ass in the off season and regains some of that missing athletic ability.

Something like that? One and two are plausible. Three is probably a fantasy. But it would be interesting.
I think the absolute best case scenario is extending Harden for an amount less than the full max. If they can move Harris (big if) they have a path to generating max cap space, which is probably the last time they will be able to do so with Thybulle, Maxey, and Embiid due big pay raises in the near future.

EDIT:
ESPN's Bobby Marx lays out what a potential "compromise" contract would look like for James Harden
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/33904786/nba-offseason-guide-2022-how-philadelphia-76ers-approach-offseason
 

Bernie Carbohydrate

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I don't think there is a chance that both these guys get the super max. In fact, i wouldn't be surprised if neither do. Well, obviously there is a chance because NBA execs make bad choices sometimes, but I think Harden takes his option and they kick the decision down the road a year, and I think Kyrie signs for less than the max
I know this is the Sixer thread, but maybe in the Kyrie thread you could share your thoughts on why you think Kyrie would settle for less than the max?

He's sure he's still one of the best players in the league. And it seems year a max contract is given out to a player even worse than the current Kyrie (Chandler Parsons, Andrew Wiggins). I'll bet he gets paid and in the second half of the deal goes out like John Wall, being paid not to play on a team trading cap room for draft picks.

Harden --oof-- for years we marveled at how his pot-bellied, no defense, predictable game was so effective. But now he's lost that tiny edge, and he looks washed. I doubt he gets in shape-- he spent his career being capable of putting up 40 in any given game despite concerns about his conditioning. At his age is he going to admit he needs to change? He gets his max too -- two more years in Philly then traded to a trash team to become Derek Rose II, and one February night in Detroit or Sacramento he'll go off for on 30 on 12-28 shooting and people will say "remember when?"
 

djbayko

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Embiid is an asshole and he should keep comments like that within the locker room. But yeah, he isn't wrong. At least not when talking about Simmons and Harden who don't put in the work or pull their own weight. But he's still an asshole.
You'd think that he'd have learned something after what happened last year with them at least partly driving Simmons off the team (people can disagree on the impact it had, but it wasn't a good thing). I've been waiting a long time to see if Embiid ever matures. It seems like we have our answer by now.
 

pjheff

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You'd think that he'd have learned something after what happened last year with them at least partly driving Simmons off the team (people can disagree on the impact it had, but it wasn't a good thing). I've been waiting a long time to see if Embiid ever matures. It seems like we have our answer by now.
Was Larry immature for calling out his teammates after Game 3 in 1984? While watching McHale clothesline Rambis in Game 4, I certainly didn’t think so. Or when they hoisted another banner.

I have no problem with Joel speaking the truth about his team and teammates.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Was Larry immature for calling out his teammates after Game 3 in 1984? While watching McHale clothesline Rambis in Game 4, I certainly didn’t think so. Or when they hoisted another banner.

I have no problem with Joel speaking the truth about his team and teammates.
The problem is is he doesn't call out himself. It was like Ime earlier in the year. Everything was the players fault.
 

Tony C

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I never get why people applaud a player who alienates teammates. He may or not be right in his criticisms, but bet that as it may it definitely hurts his team. Embiid (and Doc) should leave the truth-telling to media talking heads and/or fans screaming from their seats. Each of them seem to share a bloated ego issue.
 

Euclis20

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I never get why people applaud a player who alienates teammates. He may or not be right in his criticisms, but bet that as it may it definitely hurts his team. Embiid (and Doc) should leave the truth-telling to media talking heads and/or fans screaming from their seats. Each of them seem to share a bloated ego issue.
Same. None of this feels motivational on the part of Embiid, it feels like a passive aggressive way for him to pass off the blame of yet another early playoff exit. 5 playoffs now for Embiid without making it to the conference finals, it's starting to get embarrassing for a player of his stature.

It's admirable the way he's played through injuries in these playoffs, but there's no doubt that this guy sucks as a teammate.
 

EvilEmpire

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I think the frustration with Simmons went way far beyond what happened in his last playoffs, likely for longer than that season, even. So while I do think Embiid should keep his mouth shut in front of the media, as far as alienation goes, I suspect the way Simmons didn't work on his shortcomings, practiced, and maybe acted around his teammates, drove those feelings. Yeah, he got thrown under the bus at the end, but I think that was the culmination of a lot of things beyond those playoffs.

I think Simmons alienated his teammates long before those playoffs. As good as he was, those guys knew he could be so much better with a little more work, and probably got tired of babying and trying to coax that effort out of him.

So as much as I think Embiid is just naturally an asshole, I don't put too much blame on him for the Simmons situation. Other stuff, sure.
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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I think the absolute best case scenario is extending Harden for an amount less than the full max. If they can move Harris (big if) they have a path to generating max cap space, which is probably the last time they will be able to do so with Thybulle, Maxey, and Embiid due big pay raises in the near future.

EDIT:
ESPN's Bobby Marx lays out what a potential "compromise" contract would look like for James Harden
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/33904786/nba-offseason-guide-2022-how-philadelphia-76ers-approach-offseason
I don't have Insider so not sure what it says but this CBSsports article - https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/james-harden-contract-76ers-stars-messy-postseason-raises-questions-about-potential-long-term-deal/ - suggests that Harden may just opt-in to his deal as what teams are going to give him a Max or near-Max contract? Will be interesting to see.

I did not know but article points out that Harden did not make over 10 FGs during playoffs.
 

djbayko

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Was Larry immature for calling out his teammates after Game 3 in 1984? While watching McHale clothesline Rambis in Game 4, I certainly didn’t think so. Or when they hoisted another banner.

I have no problem with Joel speaking the truth about his team and teammates.
One was a motivational tactic, and the team responded. Embiid keeps backing up the bus over teammates immediately following elimination games. I don't see the similarity at all. The proof is in the pudding - Simmons didn't play another game for his team.
 

ElUno20

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Embiid is also a self proclaimed troll so there's a cynicism and pettiness already baked in. He kind of loses the benefit of the doubt, especially when he's just throwing dudes under the bus.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Between Harden being terrible and Embiid missing two games and being banged up due to injury, I don't think firing Doc Rivers makes much sense.

And of course the Heat are a good team.
The Heat were the far superior team. If Harden didn’t single-handedly win them Game 4 this would have been a quick gentleman’s sweep.