2021-22 76ers thread: Going for it all

Van Everyman

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When does Doc pull Embiid…..

Up 25 with 7:12 to go?
Up 27 with 6:23 left?
Up 28 with 5:41?
Up 25 with 4:28?

Those were the dead balls before Embiid’s injury? He’s played about 7,000 possessions this year prior to fracturing his orbital bone……Doc had up to 4 opportunities to know exactly when this fracture would occur.
I mean, seriously? Probably one of the latter two. Embiid has had health issues his entire career. He has had his best season. He is the reason you could win it all. You’re up 3-2 and not going to blow 25 points in less than 5 minutes, no matter how bad Harden’s defense is.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Strong disagree. The overrated (or at least) overhyped aspect of the star is definitely part of a real Ewing Theory situation. Part of the premise is that the "quote" star is actually something of a fraud. From Simmons' Page 2 days, the criteria are:

  1. A star athlete receives an inordinate amount of media attention and fan interest, and yet his teams never win anything substantial with him (other than maybe some early-round playoff series).

  2. That same athlete leaves his team (either by injury, trade, graduation, free agency or retirement) -- and both the media and fans immediately write off the team for the following season.
We used to discuss this on our private board all the time back in 2005-2007 before he bailed. I’m onyx repeating what we all were discussing and agreeing with at the time. It’s been so long ago I don’t even know who is here now that was on that board that we began with Rocco and TonyJalaPena.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I mean, seriously? Probably one of the latter two. Embiid has had health issues his entire career. He has had his best season. He is the reason you could win it all. You’re up 3-2 and not going to blow 25 points in less than 5 minutes, no matter how bad Harden’s defense is.
You must be afraid of the 2028 pick swap too. ;)

What if he got hurt at 8:00? 7:00? 6:00? Etc etc. I’d have to look back at the tape but he may have even had someone at the scorers table. I’ve read many complaints about this same type of thing when guys are literally at the table yet the coach gets ripped. It’s ridiculous.
 

Van Everyman

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You must be afraid of the 2028 pick swap too. ;)

What if he got hurt at 8:00? 7:00? 6:00? Etc etc. I’d have to look back at the tape but he may have even had someone at the scorers table. I’ve read many complaints about this same type of thing when guys are literally at the table yet the coach gets ripped. It’s ridiculous.
For the record, I think the people worried about that pick swap are ninnies.

But I would have been careful with Embiid, who is so injury prone anyway. Being up 29 at this point in the series I don’t understand having your starters in, particularly a guy like that.
 

Remagellan

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We used to discuss this on our private board all the time back in 2005-2007 before he bailed. I’m onyx repeating what we all were discussing and agreeing with at the time. It’s been so long ago I don’t even know who is here now that was on that board that we began with Rocco and TonyJalaPena.
If you check my post on the previous page, I included a link to the article on Grantland from 2013, which states that it is a reprint of the column that was originally was published in May 2001 (on ESPN Page 2). That is the source.
 

HomeRunBaker

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For the record, I think the people worried about that pick swap are ninnies.

But I would have been careful with Embiid, who is so injury prone anyway. Being up 29 at this point in the series I don’t understand having your starters in, particularly a guy like that.
I don’t disagree with this but there were literally like two exact moments to remove Embiid in a close out game before he got hurt. What if he tore his knee in an exhibition game or in a game a month ago? Sometimes shit happens.
 

HomeRunBaker

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If you check my post on the previous page, I included a link to the article on Grantland from 2013, which states that it is a reprint of the column that was originally was published in May 2001 (on ESPN Page 2). That is the source.
I’m not doubting wa is printed I was referring to many direct discussions on the topic. This is why I always refer to a team winning without their star on a given night as TET.
 

Smokey Joe

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Strong disagree. The overrated (or at least) overhyped aspect of the star is definitely part of a real Ewing Theory situation. Part of the premise is that the "quote" star is actually something of a fraud. From Simmons' Page 2 days, the criteria are:

  1. A star athlete receives an inordinate amount of media attention and fan interest, and yet his teams never win anything substantial with him (other than maybe some early-round playoff series).

  2. That same athlete leaves his team (either by injury, trade, graduation, free agency or retirement) -- and both the media and fans immediately write off the team for the following season.
Strongly disagree with your disagreement. The fact that the player gets the media and fan attention does not mean that he doesn’t deserve it. The failure to win anything substantive is not necessarily the fault of the player. I was following Simmons back in the digital city days when he first developed the “Ewing Theory”. It was decidedly not a knock on Ewing, it was an interesting phenomena.
 

Remagellan

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I don’t disagree with this but there were literally like two exact moments to remove Embiid in a close out game before he got hurt. What if he tore his knee in an exhibition game or in a game a month ago? Sometimes shit happens.
I don't entirely disagree with your point on not blaming Doc for not taking him out, but with Jay Wright lurking, and rumors that Doc might be interested in the Lakers job, I think this could very well cause them and Doc to part ways if this season ends in the next round. Because I think the Sixer ownership, after endorsing "the process" for years, has more money than patience right now.
 

Spelunker

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Strongly disagree with your disagreement. The fact that the player gets the media and fan attention does not mean that he doesn’t deserve it. The failure to win anything substantive is not necessarily the fault of the player. I was following Simmons back in the digital city days when he first developed the “Ewing Theory”. It was decidedly not a knock on Ewing, it was an interesting phenomena.
The Ewing theory is 100% a knock on Ewing. It's about overrated stars and teams doing better without them. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills right now.

If Philly won the title without Embiid this year- and that won't happen- Ewing theory would be invoked to show that Embiid wasn't that vital and the team was actually better without him. That's the whole (dumb) point of the Ewing theory.

It might be the most moronic thing Simmons came up with, but it's entirely about a team being better off without their star.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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When does Doc pull Embiid…..

Up 25 with 7:12 to go?
Up 27 with 6:23 left?
Up 28 with 5:41?
Up 25 with 4:28?

Those were the dead balls before Embiid’s injury? He’s played about 7,000 possessions this year prior to fracturing his orbital bone……Doc had up to 4 opportunities to know exactly when this fracture would occur.
Just rewatched; there was no one at the scorer's table.

I'll also note that PHI went up 29 at 4:11 when Embiid had a dunk and then he went back down the court with his arms outstretched as if he was flying. That was followed by the hard drive by Siakim with his elbows flying out. Have no idea whether Siakam took it Embiid as a result of that but it's interesting to me that the elbow followed Embiid's antics.

It maybe would have been prescient for Doc to take a foul and get Embiid out of there when PHI was up 29 but isn't that what coaches are supposed to do?
 

BigSoxFan

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I’m all about reducing risk, however minuscule it may be. When your star is in the game up 30 with 4 mins to go, you’re only dealing with downside and zero upside. You gotta pull him precisely because “shit happens”.

End of the day, we the basketball fans lose because Embiid vs. Butler in a series would have been insanely entertaining.
 

benhogan

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Just rewatched; there was no one at the scorer's table.

I'll also note that PHI went up 29 at 4:11 when Embiid had a dunk and then he went back down the court with his arms outstretched as if he was flying. That was followed by the hard drive by Siakim with his elbows flying out. Have no idea whether Siakam took it Embiid as a result of that but it's interesting to me that the elbow followed Embiid's antics.

It maybe would have been prescient for Doc to take a foul and get Embiid out of there when PHI was up 29 but isn't that what coaches are supposed to do?
up 27 with 6mins left, you pull Embiid. Toronto, without VanVleet, just isn't as dangerous from 3. Philly has plenty of other healthy veterans to salt the game away.

Joel had played 36 minutes up until that point, in a 35pt game, with no one at the scorer's desk WTF Doc???
Embiid was already playing with a torn ligament in his right thumb. He will need surgery in the offseason. AND was playing with extreme pain.

Coaching malpractice by Doc, no other way to sugar coat it. At worse, if Toronto goes on a 15-0 run in the next 4 minutes then Joel is perfectly capable of re-entering the game up 12 with 2mins left.

It's not like you have to be Carnac. AND it didn't have to be a fracture and a concussion, it could have just been a further tear in his thumb or hammy or a foot or a dozen other things that have kept Joel out of games this season. We'd all be the same way if IME kept TL with his knee issue or Brown with his hammy in too long.

I hope Doc goes to the Lakers so he can play an injured AD 40 minutes in a 25pt blowout
 

lovegtm

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up 27 with 6mins left, you pull Embiid. Toronto, without VanVleet, just isn't as dangerous from 3. Philly has plenty of other healthy veterans to salt the game away.

Joel had played 36 minutes up until that point, in a 35pt game, with no one at the scorer's desk WTF Doc???
Embiid was already playing with a torn ligament in his right thumb. He will need surgery in the offseason. AND was playing with extreme pain.

Coaching malpractice by Doc, no other way to sugar coat it. At worse, if Toronto goes on a 15-0 run in the next 4 minutes then Joel is perfectly capable of re-entering the game up 12 with 2mins left.

It's not like you have to be Carnac. AND it didn't have to be a fracture and a concussion, it could have just been a further tear in his thumb or hammy or a foot or a dozen other things that have kept Joel out of games this season. We'd all be the same way if IME kept TL with his knee issue or Brown with his hammy in too long.

I hope Doc goes to the Lakers so he can play an injured AD 40 minutes in a 25pt blowout
Agree that Embiid's bangedupedness is what makes this dumb, not the exact time/score per se.

I have to guess Doc felt extreme pressure to not blow another big series lead, and that that strongly affected his decision-making.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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up 27 with 6mins left, you pull Embiid. Toronto, without VanVleet, just isn't as dangerous from 3. Philly has plenty of other healthy veterans to salt the game away.

Joel had played 36 minutes up until that point, in a 35pt game, with no one at the scorer's desk WTF Doc???
Embiid was already playing with a torn ligament in his right thumb. He will need surgery in the offseason. AND was playing with extreme pain.

Coaching malpractice by Doc, no other way to sugar coat it. At worse, if Toronto goes on a 15-0 run in the next 4 minutes then Joel is perfectly capable of re-entering the game up 12 with 2mins left.

It's not like you have to be Carnac. AND it didn't have to be a fracture and a concussion, it could have just been a further tear in his thumb or hammy or a foot or a dozen other things that have kept Joel out of games this season. We'd all be the same way if IME kept TL with his knee issue or Brown with his hammy in too long.

I hope Doc goes to the Lakers so he can play an injured AD 40 minutes in a 25pt blowout
Agree.

Wonder how Harden feels now about forcing his way out of BRK. Maybe he needs to try to play on the Cs one of these years.
 

bigq

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I have to guess Doc felt extreme pressure to not blow another big series lead, and that that strongly affected his decision-making.
Agree. As the head coach of six teams that have blown 3-1 or 3-2 playoff series leads Doc appears to have been hyper focused on not letting that happen again.
 

benhogan

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Agree.

Wonder how Harden feels now about forcing his way out of BRK. Maybe he needs to try to play on the Cs one of these years.
James has to watch PHX and wonder why he couldn't make it work with a younger CP3?

Harden's plummet will be dramatic over the next few seasons, a combination of hollow points, matador defense mixed in with some indifference.
 

bigq

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James has to watch PHX and wonder why he couldn't make it work with a younger CP3?

Harden's plummet will be dramatic over the next few seasons, a combination of hollow points, matador defense mixed in with some indifference.
Right and don’t forget that playing his fat ass into shape at the start of each season is going to take progressively longer and put him at high risk of injury. I love the Celtics-Sixers rivalry and I am actively rooting for Philadelphia to not sign Harden to a new contract. I’m sure they can find a better way to spend $45M+ per year.
 

benhogan

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Right and don’t forget that playing his fat ass into shape at the start of each season is going to take progressively longer and put him at high risk of injury. I love the Celtics-Sixers rivalry and I am actively rooting for Philadelphia to not sign Harden to a new contract. I’m sure they can find a better way to spend $45M+ per year.
Gosh, you're much nicer than me. I want Philly to sign James up for the full $200MM.

Then he can camp out in front of Geno's at 3am every night, with whiz running down his long sleeves (frankly I'm jealous)
 

bigq

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Gosh, you're much nicer than me. I want Philly to sign James up for the full $200MM.

Then he can camp out in front of Geno's at 3am every night, with whiz running down his long sleeves (frankly I'm jealous)
Harden would look great in a Knicks uniform.
 

Toe Nash

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I don’t disagree with this but there were literally like two exact moments to remove Embiid in a close out game before he got hurt. What if he tore his knee in an exhibition game or in a game a month ago? Sometimes shit happens.
Uh he was already hurt and you can create a dead ball pretty much whenever you want if you want to make a substitution when you're up by a million. Obviously he could have gotten hurt in game 1 but the outcome of the series was still in question at that point. I think criticism here is fair.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Uh he was already hurt and you can create a dead ball pretty much whenever you want if you want to make a substitution when you're up by a million. Obviously he could have gotten hurt in game 1 but the outcome of the series was still in question at that point. I think criticism here is fair.
Sure, the coach could have stopped the game within a 1-2 minute window to remove Embiid. What about Harden? Anyone else? Do you do this every game? Do you hold practice sessions? Hold hands while they are walking across the street?

There was probably more danger in Embiid going out on a Friday night with Harden than there was him suffering a series ending injury over those specific 2 minutes.
 

Jimbodandy

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Sure, the coach could have stopped the game within a 1-2 minute window to remove Embiid. What about Harden? Anyone else? Do you do this every game? Do you hold practice sessions? Hold hands while they are walking across the street?

There was probably more danger in Embiid going out on a Friday night with Harden than there was him suffering a series ending injury over those specific 2 minutes.
I don't see the point of dragging Doc over the coals over a 20-20 hindsight thing, but Embiid is exactly the type of guy that you don't leave in games up 30 with 4 minutes left. Even without the thumb injury.
 

Toe Nash

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Yes, you might also remove your other superstar who is really important to your future success who also isn't very good at defense.

If you're going to make a bunch of strawman arguments then we're done here I think.
 

johnmd20

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Sure, the coach could have stopped the game within a 1-2 minute window to remove Embiid. What about Harden? Anyone else? Do you do this every game? Do you hold practice sessions? Hold hands while they are walking across the street?

There was probably more danger in Embiid going out on a Friday night with Harden than there was him suffering a series ending injury over those specific 2 minutes.
No, you don't take out the other guys because the other guys aren't the franchise. You leave in players that aren't the best player on your team.

I don't know why you're taking this ridiculous stance. The game was over. Embid is the Sixers best player by a mile. He's also had some injury history long term and very recently with the torn ligament in his thumb. Keeping him out there was stupid and there is no excuse.
 

djbayko

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The Ewing theory is 100% a knock on Ewing. It's about overrated stars and teams doing better without them. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills right now.
Yup. This is how I remember it also. I never heard it used in the context of a team rallying to win in spite of their best player being out. It was always that the team plays better because that player drags them down.
 

terrynever

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I’m all about reducing risk, however minuscule it may be. When your star is in the game up 30 with 4 mins to go, you’re only dealing with downside and zero upside. You gotta pull him precisely because “shit happens”.

End of the day, we the basketball fans lose because Embiid vs. Butler in a series would have been insanely entertaining.
No, you don't take out the other guys because the other guys aren't the franchise. You leave in players that aren't the best player on your team.

I don't know why you're taking this ridiculous stance. The game was over. Embid is the Sixers best player by a mile. He's also had some injury history long term and very recently with the torn ligament in his thumb. Keeping him out there was stupid and there is no excuse.
I don't know the right answer, but @HomeRunBaker didn't you want the Celtics to sit their main guys in the last game and pointed out what happened to Doncic?

I get an entire game is much longer than 5 minutes or whatever, but there's some similarities here.
 

RetractableRoof

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Just my two cents... for years BB has coached and mostly rejected the sentiment of bubble wrapping players - including losing some starters on special teams duty (Gronk being the most recent memorable one for me). Players play, it's what they do. Conversely, game threads here have questioned Udoka leaving starters in too long. So it's not unheard of. I think as a coach there is a difference between a few extra minutes in the regular season where an injury risk can be withstood or overcome and unnecessary risk of injury in a playoff scenario where a single game can be such a significant swing. If I'm a Sixers fan, I'm pissed that he was still on the court there - if nothing else because of the state of his thumb. I think Doc was message sending after all the critique about losing when up big in a series.

Also, there is a certain amount of karma to the injury from my lens. Embid has made a career out of being physical and ramming a nice big shoulder into defenders in the post and enjoying the benefits of physical assertive play. I'm not saddened to see him in street clothes after being on the receiving end of an assertive play. Considering it was moments after he was playing airplane down the court or whatever that trolling was after the previous Sixers bucket I'd guess that didn't exactly inspire the Raptors to just let the clock gracefully tick away. I can feel for Sixers fans losing a chance to see their star in action, but not for Embid himself.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I don't know the right answer, but @HomeRunBaker didn't you want the Celtics to sit their main guys in the last game and pointed out what happened to Doncic?

I get an entire game is much longer than 5 minutes or whatever, but there's some similarities here.
I don’t see the similarities between not playing your star for a 48 min game and cherry picking the exact dead ball possession prior to your stat breaking his face.
 

TripleOT

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Also, there is a certain amount of karma to the injury from my lens. Embid has made a career out of being physical and ramming a nice big shoulder into defenders in the post and enjoying the benefits of physical assertive play. I'm not saddened to see him in street clothes after being on the receiving end of an assertive play. Considering it was moments after he was playing airplane down the court or whatever that trolling was after the previous Sixers bucket I'd guess that didn't exactly inspire the Raptors to just let the clock gracefully tick away. I can feel for Sixers fans losing a chance to see their star in action, but not for Embid himself.
Bingo.

Embiid’s troll act is beyond stale. I’m a little upset that Miami is gonna have an easier road to the ECF, but I don’t care if Embiid’s face is broken every single year
 

Sam Ray Not

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James has to watch PHX and wonder why he couldn't make it work with a younger CP3?
I’ll never get over the deal that sent the Point God plus

• 2024 first round pick (protected #1-4)
• 2026 first round pick (protected #1-4)
• 2021 first round pick swap (protected #1-4)
• 2025 first round pick swap (protected #1-20)

for Russell freaking Westbrook. We’re talking highway robbery for OKC even *without* the four first-rounders. Worst trade in NBA history? I can think of some other absurdly lopsided deals involving young players / draft picks who panned out or did not — e.g. Parish and McHale for Joe Barely Cares, or Tatum and a first round pick for Fultz. But for sheer craziness at the time of the deal, it’s tough to beat CP3 and a boatload of first round picks for Westbrook, even if CP3 has aged much better than most imagined he would in 2019.

(Edit: sorry, not really the thread for it. If mods want to break out into a worst/best NBA trade ever thread, feel free…)
 
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benhogan

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I’ll never get over the deal that sent the Point God plus

• 2024 first round pick (protected #1-4)
• 2026 first round pick (protected #1-4)
• 2021 first round pick swap (protected #1-4)
• 2025 first round pick swap (protected #1-20)

for Russell freaking Westbrook. We’re talking highway robbery for OKC even *without* the four first-rounders. Worst trade in NBA history? I can think of some other absurdly lopsided deals involving young players / draft picks who panned out or did not — e.g. Parish and McHale for Joe Barely Cares, or Tatum and a first round pick for Fultz. But for sheer craziness at the time of the deal, it’s tough to beat CP3 and a boatload of first round picks for Westbrook, even if CP3 has aged much better than most imagined he would in 2019.

(Edit: sorry, not really the thread for it. If mods want to break out into a worst/best NBA trade ever thread, feel free…)
It would be pretty ironic if Daryl Morey was pinned with the worst trade ever.

There have been a bunch of head-scratchers coming out of Houston over the last few years. Just ask an exasperated @nighthob

Maybe Morey can try his best to add to his blunders this offseason by dealing Maxey/Tobias for Beal + signing Harden to a supermax
 

Sam Ray Not

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It would be pretty ironic if Daryl Morey was pinned with the worst trade ever.

There have been a bunch of head-scratchers coming out of Houston over the last few years. Just ask an exasperated @nighthob

Maybe Morey can try his best to add to his blunders this offseason by dealing Maxey/Tobias for Beal + signing Harden to a supermax
Houston also skated out of a disaster scenario by plucking the #2 pick and Jalen Green. There was a 50% scenario where they lose that pick and OKC gets the #5 pick (say, Scottie Barnes or Jon Kuminga) in addition to Giddey.

On the Sixers: yeah, the Harden extension is gonna be a tough one. I would just let him walk, personally, but I guess I can see a scenario where he’s an effective point forward for another 3-4 seasons? To the extent that he defends at all, I can more easily see him bodying up 4s as he ages than chasing around quick NBA guards.
 

bowiac

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It was widely understood that Morey was not going to be around in Houston for the consequences of that trade. There was a major ownership/management clash happening at the time.
 

HomeRunBaker

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It was widely understood that Morey was not going to be around in Houston for the consequences of that trade. There was a major ownership/management clash happening at the time.
This is why longer term thinking/secure in their job-GM’s can exploit all those GM’s who are hired to make changes or who need to make changes for their job security. Taking advantage of teams desperation has been around since No-No Nanette.
 

benhogan

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This is why longer term thinking/secure in their job-GM’s can exploit all those GM’s who are hired to make changes or who need to make changes for their job security. Taking advantage of teams desperation has been around since No-No Nanette.
Great point. Brad/IME/Wyc with the 6-7 core locked up for numerous seasons can sit back and pick off the panic-stricken organizations where new newish GMs (see Ainge, Daniel) blow up the prior administrations' work.

Pre-White trade, we were doing acrobatics in trying to figure out how PBS could add another ball handler. The ESPN trade machine/fake trade threads around here might gather dust this summer.
 

bowiac

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The CP3/RWB trade?
Yeah - there was already agita between Morey and Fertitta over internal FO/coaching staff budgetary issues. Most of the discussion around the trade I saw then presumed that Morey would not be around in the "out" years to feel the consequences of trading the picks if things went south.

And yeah @HomeRunBaker is 100% correct that long-term alignment between ownership and management is key for trades like this. It creates exploitable circumstances for other teams too. The risk is especially high with a "name brand" GM like Morey, who, as we saw, could set an organization on fire and still have his pick of jobs after.
 

chilidawg

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[QUOTE="benhogan, post: 4968386, member: 37174"

Pre-White trade, we were doing acrobatics in trying to figure out how PBS could add another ball handler. The ESPN trade machine/fake trade threads around here might gather dust this summer.
[/QUOTE]

Smart emerging as a more legitimate ball handler has certainly helped in this regard as well.
 

Kliq

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Wasn't part of the Westbrook/Paul trade was that Harden basically forced them to trade CP3, and they chose Harden over Paul (which every GM would have done at the time, but it's funny that Paul seems to be outlasting Harden despite the age gap)? Paul at the time was coming off two career-worst years in Houston, he hadn't made an ASG in three seasons and was 33, with a gigantic contract. When he got flipped from Houston, there were real questions about his long-term value. The fact that he got on a plant-based diet, got himself back into sick shape and broke a lot of conventional thoughts about aging PGs, has been a true testament to his desire to be great.
 

benhogan

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Yeah - there was already agita between Morey and Fertitta over internal FO/coaching staff budgetary issues. Most of the discussion around the trade I saw then presumed that Morey would not be around in the "out" years to feel the consequences of trading the picks if things went south.

And yeah @HomeRunBaker is 100% correct that long-term alignment between ownership and management is key for trades like this. It creates exploitable circumstances for other teams too. The risk is especially high with a "name brand" GM like Morey, who, as we saw, could set an organization on fire and still have his pick of jobs after.
Put me down for burying Tilman Fertitta whenever possible.

I also thought there was some CP3/Harden bad blood?

Morey putting the RWB trade on Fertitta's ledger would be one of Daryl's more impressive feats. BUT I guess it wouldn't shock me if Morey did something crippling to the Rockets 16mths prior to his exit, that's some 4D chess.
 

GeorgeCostanza

tiger king
SoSH Member
May 16, 2009
7,286
Found in central mass
Just my two cents... for years BB has coached and mostly rejected the sentiment of bubble wrapping players - including losing some starters on special teams duty (Gronk being the most recent memorable one for me). Players play, it's what they do. Conversely, game threads here have questioned Udoka leaving starters in too long. So it's not unheard of. I think as a coach there is a difference between a few extra minutes in the regular season where an injury risk can be withstood or overcome and unnecessary risk of injury in a playoff scenario where a single game can be such a significant swing. If I'm a Sixers fan, I'm pissed that he was still on the court there - if nothing else because of the state of his thumb. I think Doc was message sending after all the critique about losing when up big in a series.

Also, there is a certain amount of karma to the injury from my lens. Embid has made a career out of being physical and ramming a nice big shoulder into defenders in the post and enjoying the benefits of physical assertive play. I'm not saddened to see him in street clothes after being on the receiving end of an assertive play. Considering it was moments after he was playing airplane down the court or whatever that trolling was after the previous Sixers bucket I'd guess that didn't exactly inspire the Raptors to just let the clock gracefully tick away. I can feel for Sixers fans losing a chance to see their star in action, but not for Embid himself.
Counterpoint, how many special teams snaps did Gronk have after breaking his arm?
 

RetractableRoof

tolerates intolerance
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2003
3,836
Quincy, MA
Counterpoint, how many special teams snaps did Gronk have after breaking his arm?
Fair question. What I'd say after acknowledging that, is in the big picture the value of HIS special teams contribution and/or Risk Reward was re-evaluated, they still put regular teamers on special teams (Bolden was pretty important after White went down, and still took some ST snaps).

I think there is a risk/reward line that Doc (and every coach) rides. I think the thumb injury should have drastically moved that line, and Doc didn't apparently. If he can live with the results professionally, good for him.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
41,949
I don't even understand this argument. You pull your fucking stars when the other team has no chance of beating you.

The Raptors were down 21 when the fourth quarter started. They were down 29 when Embiid dunked, and then Supermanned his ass down the court with 4 minutes to go. He was subsequently hurt, and Doc had no intention of taking him out of the game until later.

You know I know this. Doc didn't sit Harden or Maxey until there was 2:14 left in the game. Harden played 42 minutes, and Maxey played 44 minutes in the game, which means, during a 35 point blowout, Doc found a grand total of 4 minutes and 2 minutes to give Harden or Maxey a breather prior to that. Embiid was leaving the game too at 2:14. Not only did Doc give them virtually no rest, he left Embiid and Maxey in a 30 point game, for almost 2 full minutes, when he knew Embiid just got hurt, and potentially seriously hurt.

You know who else left the game with 2:14 left, every single Raptors starter.

The only way Doc made the right call is if you believe that resting your stars is irrelevant, because, I mean, they could get hurt at anytime, so who cares, play them 48 minutes every night, no matter the score. They could just fall in the locker room after the game, as easily as they could get hurt in the game.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,505
Wasn't part of the Westbrook/Paul trade was that Harden basically forced them to trade CP3, and they chose Harden over Paul (which every GM would have done at the time, but it's funny that Paul seems to be outlasting Harden despite the age gap)? Paul at the time was coming off two career-worst years in Houston, he hadn't made an ASG in three seasons and was 33, with a gigantic contract. When he got flipped from Houston, there were real questions about his long-term value. The fact that he got on a plant-based diet, got himself back into sick shape and broke a lot of conventional thoughts about aging PGs, has been a true testament to his desire to be great.
I think both CP3 and Harden wanted out as they couldn't stand playing with each other. And Morey picked Harden so what else was he going to do with CP3?

https://www.yahoo.com/video/sources-relationship-between-rockets-stars-james-harden-chris-paul-termed-unsalvageable-200951028.html