If it makes you feel any better, someone in the lakers brass continues to leak Doc Rivers interest.
2021-22 NBA In-Season News/Transactions
- Thread starter Cellar-Door
- Start date
There was no reasonable purpose for matching or beating that mind boggling offer made my Minnesota. The cash alone was tons but then to add ownership equity? Crazy for Nuggets to think of matching that.
I don't think the Lakers control a first round pick until 2026. Now, maybe that's a good thing for a receiving team, with the Lakers due to be in post-Lebron rebuild mode?.
I think the Lakers have their 2025 pick, but cannot trade it. Not buying the prediction that the Lakers will somehow get enough from a Westbrook trade to get anywhere close to restocking the current team.
I was going by this, but maybe it's wrong.
https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/22932237/lakers-future-nba-draft-picks-trades-swaps
No, you are indeed correct. Forgot that the 2024 pick could be deferred to 2025 at NO's option.
Does anyone think Ayton is getting the MAX? besides his agent
https://hoopswire.com/are-suns-and-deandre-ayton-headed-for-a-split/
https://hoopswire.com/are-suns-and-deandre-ayton-headed-for-a-split/
It looks like Calvin Booth will assume Connelly’s role while possibly retaining his GM responsibilities so not much changing.
Not only that, but I think teams would be willing to surrender a first round pick asset or better to structure it as a sign-and-trade to ensure the Suns won’t match. Ayton on a 4-year or even a 3 plus 1 would have to nose dive considerable for that to be a albatross contract. He’s also young enough that cap space teams will be able to build around him and compete on his timeline/aging curve.
RFA dampens FA $$$$ and
Jarrett Allen/John Collins want refunds on their deals last summer
bad teams have the ability to MAX and you want them giving up a Lottery pick for a circa 2000 Center to boot
I guess there will always be a Sacramento in the league so anything is possible for Deandre
Good point in that if you have the cap space to sign Ayton, you probably also don’t have a back end of the first round pick. I would rather take my chances on a top-eight or so pick than pay Ayton a max.bad teams have the ability to MAX and you want them giving up a Lottery pick for a circa 2000 Center to boot
I guess there will always be a Sacramento in the league so anything is possible for Deandre
1. Yes as a RFA it will actually benefit him as teams interested will want to dissuade the match.
2. If he was a MLE-level player it would be a disadvantage.
3. The Suns will likely receive compensation due to number 1 in the form of a SNT.
Bill Duffy is hiring for his PR team
RFA is beneficial to the player? that is very Vivek Ranadive, Get out of our way we're overpaying and handing over assets for a 17/10 Center that's a pedestrian shot-blocker!!! BUT it would bookend Sacramento's 2018 Draft, so I'm rooting hard for the Kings
Option theory coming to the Port Cellar
There’s plenty of evidence that teams will structure RFA contracts so that it is as onerous as possible for the matching team and I wouldn’t put Daryl Morey (e.g. Asik, Lin) into the Sacramento Kings philosphy on team building, although the LaVine max would have worked out well.Bill Duffy is hiring the 3 of you for his PR team
RFA is beneficial to the player? that is very Vivek Ranadive, Get out of our way we're overpaying and handing over assets for a 17/10 Center that's a pedestrian shot-blocker!!! BUT it would bookend Sacramento's 2018 Draft, so I'm rooting hard for the Kings
Option theory coming to the Port Cellar
I think somebody is going to give Ayton the max, but this is one move that the receiving GM needs to be CERTAIN about. The key question is what player is Ayton without Chris Paul and Devin Booker at the front end of a "big 3"? The advanced stats showing one or the other stars on/off the floor that I don't have offhand may offer a clue.
But just on the face of it with non-advanced stats, in a world where RWIII is under contract through 25-26 somewhere a little north of $10 million/yr, paying Ayton the max seems like an overpay. Ayton puts up more offensive production, but his blocks have decreased each of the last 3 years down to 0.7 bpg this season. (Again, not advanced stats so I'm not sure how good his D REALLY is.) But much like the Cs overpaid for Kemba to close a perceived hole, there are teams out there with no homegrown bigs on the horizon that will throw money at the problem just to get a top 10 center entering his prime on their roster.
While Ayton will produce a lot on his own, I'm not sure he profiles as a guy who will improve existing wings on your team by attracting double teams in the paint on the offensive end and intimidating shot-makers on the defensive end. Just spitballing here, but he reminds me of a taller Juwan Howard. Howard played at a consistently high mid-range/post offensive level up until age 30 then tailed off, but didn't have those one or two additional skills whether long-range shooting, passing or blocking shots to make him an all-NBA type of player.
But just on the face of it with non-advanced stats, in a world where RWIII is under contract through 25-26 somewhere a little north of $10 million/yr, paying Ayton the max seems like an overpay. Ayton puts up more offensive production, but his blocks have decreased each of the last 3 years down to 0.7 bpg this season. (Again, not advanced stats so I'm not sure how good his D REALLY is.) But much like the Cs overpaid for Kemba to close a perceived hole, there are teams out there with no homegrown bigs on the horizon that will throw money at the problem just to get a top 10 center entering his prime on their roster.
While Ayton will produce a lot on his own, I'm not sure he profiles as a guy who will improve existing wings on your team by attracting double teams in the paint on the offensive end and intimidating shot-makers on the defensive end. Just spitballing here, but he reminds me of a taller Juwan Howard. Howard played at a consistently high mid-range/post offensive level up until age 30 then tailed off, but didn't have those one or two additional skills whether long-range shooting, passing or blocking shots to make him an all-NBA type of player.
I'm mostly joking, at the expense of the Kings.
RFA dampens...are their exceptions, sure
You guys can roast me when DA gets his MAX with Suns getting assets
The Spurs have number 9 and cap room. If you're the Spurs, you kind of have to make that trade, right? You're not likely to find a player that's better than Ayton at that draft pick (particularly because you're already so loaded at the guard position - is Johnny Davis really better than what you already have? Is Mark Williams better than Ayton?) and you're not going to do anything better with your cap room.
That's a home run for the Suns.
Go sign Nurkic/McGee, end up with a large TPE, extend Cam Johnson, use #7 pick, be a 60-win team while Sarver counts his saved shekels
So two thoughts...
1. Yeah Denver not matching an equity offer is reasonable, however.... Connelly was seen as very available to the right offer for the same reason Ujiri was... they were seen as top end execs, among the best, but were not paid like it, being paid in the lower part of the league and not given lock-up extensions long term. Also Denver's ownership has notoriously cut corners despite being one of the richer groups, this is the first year in the tax ever, and they just shaded in despite cost cutting on the bench. I expect them to be back under the tax in the upcoming year and to stay there.
2. I think Ayton might just sign a max. Originally it seemed like it was either come back or S&T, but the relationship seems to have really soured, and Sarver is cheap. There is a real chance he goes out and signs a max and dares PHX to bring him back unhappy. Maybe a team wants him bad enough and can't make space, but I think the value of what would come back in a trade has tanked because it seems unlikely that his returning to PHX is all that viable long term.
1. Yeah Denver not matching an equity offer is reasonable, however.... Connelly was seen as very available to the right offer for the same reason Ujiri was... they were seen as top end execs, among the best, but were not paid like it, being paid in the lower part of the league and not given lock-up extensions long term. Also Denver's ownership has notoriously cut corners despite being one of the richer groups, this is the first year in the tax ever, and they just shaded in despite cost cutting on the bench. I expect them to be back under the tax in the upcoming year and to stay there.
2. I think Ayton might just sign a max. Originally it seemed like it was either come back or S&T, but the relationship seems to have really soured, and Sarver is cheap. There is a real chance he goes out and signs a max and dares PHX to bring him back unhappy. Maybe a team wants him bad enough and can't make space, but I think the value of what would come back in a trade has tanked because it seems unlikely that his returning to PHX is all that viable long term.
https://pr.nba.com/voting-results-2021-22-nba-regular-season-awards/
Awards ballots are up. Some fun stuff. Perk voted Jaylen for 3rd team All-NBA. Jalen Rose voted Kyrie for 3rd team somehow.
Awards ballots are up. Some fun stuff. Perk voted Jaylen for 3rd team All-NBA. Jalen Rose voted Kyrie for 3rd team somehow.
Everyone who makes a vote like that should be forced to defend it in front of Stephen A Smith like a doctoral candidate defending his or her thesis.
View: https://twitter.com/_talkin_nba/status/1529610399204757508
MIke Schmitz, current ESPN draft guru and former Draft Express honcho is getting a front office job:
View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1529984490159984678?t=Df7tkQQ9K8P4mhGYww3YbA&s=19
View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1529984490159984678?t=Df7tkQQ9K8P4mhGYww3YbA&s=19
No question that restricted dampens money, but I am not sure these three are totally comparable. Neither Allen or Collins had the #1 pick thing going for them, and neither were seen as potential two way stars. Allen's offense is/was always suspect, and Collins defense and health were/are concerns.
You think so? I doubt either would get more this off season. If Collins wants a refund, it's only because he wants out of Atlanta.
If anyone wants a refund, its TL. He probably gets Jarrett Allen money, though the injuries may scare off some people. I doubt Ayton gets the max, but I don't think RFA is what will prevent it. It's his lack of a 3 point shot. Maybe if a team believes he'll add it to his game, they offer him max.
If health weren't a factor, would anyone want Ayton over TL? Outside of scoring, TL is pretty much better in every way. He's 9 months younger than TL so I guess that counts for something. If a team offers Ayton the max, they are going to regret it unless he does become a real 3 point threat.
Being #1 should have little to do with what teams pay him after 4 seasons. BUT who knows it only takes one back organization, there are plenty of bad front offices
Maybe Ayton's a hair better than Allen/Collins. I'd take Collins perimeter game on both sides of the floor over Ayton's. If the SUNS/ATL did a S&T with JC going to Phoenix that would be a nice move by them.
Clearly, the Board disagrees with me since about 10 of you have him getting MAX'd + matched/traded for assets or picks. I'll be back with my mea culpa if I'm wrong this summer.
It wasn't a condemnation of Allen/JC deals, it was strictly in regards to Ayton getting a MAX deal. I see the 3 of them having similar value.
You're the only one, besides myself, around here that thinks a Ayton MAX is rich and regrettable.
Ayton has been in the NBA for 4 years now and will be 24 at the start of next season. Where he was picked or what he was seen as is no longer relevant at all.
FWIW, Jarrett Allen is only 2 months older than Ayton.
Yes and no. Yes it doesn't matter exactly where he was drafted, but no in the sense that the same reasons he went #1 are still there, and that's ceiling. Ayton has shown strong improvement the last 2 years, and done it without an offense built for him. A team looks at that, looks at the ceiling they gave him in the draft process, and says "yeah this guy is already a borderline max guy and he's still got headroom."
They also see what the market paid players similar to Ayton in RFA last season
Many thought RFAs Lonzo/Collins were going to get MAX'd last year
I just don't see a guy that lives around the paint on offense and isn't a special rim defender being a TOP 2 player on a team.
MAXing a guy that is a good (not great) Center isn't clever in the modern NBA (especially when they quit on their team during Game7)
Damn, this is a real bummer. His draft content, particularly his videos with prospects, was always spectacular
Maybe. I think from what his agent has said he has a max out there.
I'd also argue he's a better player than John Collins was going into FA. Yes he hasn't shot 3s much, but he's a pretty efficient scorer, a much better rebounder, arguably the better passer and clearly a better defender. And I think there is a good case that he was underutilized by his team on offense which Collins wasn't. Another factor is that with Collins, there wasn't much doubt that ATL would match your offer, teams definitely think PHX isn't going to if you make it hurt enough, because of Sarver.
I'm not going to read much into "quitting" in game 7. His team was down 40, all series his backcourt ignored him as they threw up brick after brick. That game was over, everyone knew it, and a guy who is a FA and has consistently gotten low-balled by the FO should just sit it out.
I thought Collins would get max but no way Lonzo would. Someone was predicting Smart to get 4/100 and I thought that was laughable too.
Collins got close to max. He got the JB deal. I could see Ayton getting the JC/JB deal, or somewhere in between what JA and JC got.
Bill Duffy wouldn't be the first agent to bend the truth to benefit his client
I don't really want to go down the JC vs Ayton rabbit hole since they play different positions/styles. They've been pretty similar with PPG, Steals, Blocks, Asst/TO, VORP, BPM etc...IMO they are very high-end complementary players. Personally, I'd rather have JC, but a lot of that has to do with the style of Ayton's play and the ability to get that style at a cheaper price.
The Suns probably noticed that the team was better on D (and net efficient) when JaVale McGee (12-5 when he started) played Center with the 4 other starters. Clearly, Ayton is > McGee BUT they probably asked themselves is it really worth MAXing Ayton when they can get McGee on the cheap? Warriors model, shooting + experienced BIG. I'm sure the SUNS have their regrets from drafting him #1 and don't want to double down on that mistake with a MAX deal (+ Sarver is cheap)
Also, the lack of 3pt FGA is a red flag. Maybe that's a Ben Simmons reflex reaction?
DA has been a consistent 75% FT shooter since his rookie year, how does he start/play big minutes for 4 seasons and only have 19 3PA this season? It's something every NBA team has been encouraging players to do for years. The SUNS would be privy to his work ethic on that front. If they saw that coming around I imagine they would have had a different stance this season.
If a team wants to spend $100M over 4yrs with the hopes of more development, I guess. There is more cap space available this summer which should help his cause.
I can see the arguments against.Bill Duffy wouldn't be the first agent to bend the truth to benefit his client
I don't really want to go down the JC vs Ayton rabbit hole since they play different positions/styles. They've been pretty similar with PPG, Steals, Blocks, Asst/TO, VORP, BPM etc...IMO they are very high-end complementary players. Personally, I'd rather have JC, but a lot of that has to do with the style of Ayton's play and the ability to get that style at a cheaper price.
The Suns probably noticed that the team was better on D (and net efficient) when JaVale McGee (12-5 when he started) played Center with the 4 other starters. Clearly, Ayton is > McGee BUT they probably asked themselves is it really worth MAXing Ayton when they can get McGee on the cheap? Warriors model, shooting + experienced BIG. I'm sure the SUNS have their regrets from drafting him #1 and don't want to double down on that mistake with a MAX deal (+ Sarver is cheap)
Also, the lack of 3pt FGA is a red flag. Maybe that's a Ben Simmons reflex reaction?
DA has been a consistent 75% FT shooter since his rookie year, how does he start/play big minutes for 4 seasons and only have 19 3PA this season? It's something every NBA team has been encouraging players to do for years. The SUNS would be privy to his work ethic on that front. If they saw that coming around I imagine they would have had a different stance this season.
If a team wants to spend $100M over 4yrs with the hopes of more development, I guess. There is more cap space available this summer which should help his cause.
On 3PA... I think that's the Suns honestly, not Ayton. The way they play they don't want their center on the perimeter in part because CP3 and Booker aren't actually trying to get to the rim. Also, they just don't take that many 3s as a team, 4th least in the league. Ayton had the highest 3PAr among their centers, unless you consider Kaminsky a C, and his 3PAr has cratered too. If I remember right one of the rumors of why Ayton was unhappy is he felt like they were limiting his offense which would hurt his value. I think part of that is he wanted the ball on the perimeter more. Even at PF, Cam Johnson has the green light, but Jalen Smith didn't, his 3PAr skyrocketed when he got to IND.
I wouldn't be surprised if Ayton gets a max, I wouldn't be shocked if he didn't, but I see more reasons to offer it to him than either of the RFAs last year.
He’s going to make nearly as much in one season coaching the Lakers than he did during his entire 8-year playing career. I won’t be shedding any tears for him lol.
This can go in here, I guess.
lolololol
View: https://twitter.com/DominickNBA/status/1530345311666724864?s=20&t=DC-oiFfcHarj5BX8uV54ZQ
Bleacher Report expects New York Knicks to "aggressively" pursue D'Angelo Russell this offseason. Says they would offer Minnesota both Kemba Walker and Evan Fournier.
lolololol
View: https://twitter.com/DominickNBA/status/1530345311666724864?s=20&t=DC-oiFfcHarj5BX8uV54ZQ
Bleacher Report expects New York Knicks to "aggressively" pursue D'Angelo Russell this offseason. Says they would offer Minnesota both Kemba Walker and Evan Fournier.
Wolves brass mulling the intriguing Fournier/Kemba package v. the Warriors’ offer of Wiggins and Kuminga.