2021-22 NBA Off-season Thread
- Thread starter JohnnyTheBone
- Start date
People talk about goats and all that but is there a better two-way forward the game has even seen after LeBron?
Duncan/Garnett/Pippen. Obviously Durant is on a different level than those three offensively, but he was far below them on defense.
*edit - not saying for sure that these three are better than Durant, but it's not obvious.
These are the most intriguing free agents still around, IMO. Any news on spots for them? Would/could BOS cut Parker and rid themselves on Carsen and sign one of these guys to the minimum?
Jared Dudley
Shaq Harrison
Ersan Ilyasova
Stnaley Johnson
Wes Matthews
Nicolo Melli
E'Twaun Moore
Patrick Patterson
JJ Redick
Jared Dudley
Shaq Harrison
Ersan Ilyasova
Stnaley Johnson
Wes Matthews
Nicolo Melli
E'Twaun Moore
Patrick Patterson
JJ Redick
Let’s narrow that field a little. Redick has said that he isn’t signing with anyone prior to the season. Harrison, Dudley, and SJ are worthless. Patterson has been linked to Europe.
I think LeBron is the best all-around player ever. Bird was also a better shooter, rebounder, passer than Jordan, by the way, but Jordan was a better scorer and defender.
Depends what you mean by all around. I'd agree, but still think Jordan is better over all. It's just an analogy, so people shouldn't read into the grades I'm giving, but LeBron's lowest category would be a C. Jordan may have a few Ds... but Jordan scores higher in other categories to move than offset it.
The offense Jordan put out in a more physical, rugged time would probably be even better in the modern game. LeBron being able to use his physicality even more in like in Jordan's time would probably elevate his defense.
Who is greater is a fun question that has been asked a million times.
Who is greater is a fun question that has been asked a million times.
I guess my problem with Charlotte is it still feels like too many guards. I guess maybe I am too high on Bouknight, but I think he is going to be a real good stating shooting guard, but does he get the 20+ min a game he needs to develop. They also have Oubre out there as well.
Burner accounts? No. Going on Twitter and Arguing on THE Blue Check MJ account. Hells yeah.
OT: does anyone know if RPM has changed their secret sauce lately?
Like, I always knew advanced stats loved Steph, but...
Top 5 NBA players by RPM, last eight seasons
====
2020-21: Curry, LeBron, Gobert, George, Giannis
2019-20: n/a (Curry out)
2018-19: Curry, LeBron, Harden, Giannis, Lowry
2017-18: Lowry, Curry, VanVleet, Paul, Harden
2016-17: Curry, LeBron, Paul, Lowry, Gobert
2015-16: Curry, LeBron, Durant, Leonard, Lowry
2014-15: Curry, Paul, LeBron, Korver, Durant
2013-14: Paul, Curry, Durant, Harden, Nowitzki
Curry tally: five times #1, two times #2, one DNP.
I'm assuming they build in a lot of priors such that these are not totally independent results, but even then: does their formula include adjustments for having green eyes and being a scratch golfer?
Like, I always knew advanced stats loved Steph, but...
Top 5 NBA players by RPM, last eight seasons
====
2020-21: Curry, LeBron, Gobert, George, Giannis
2019-20: n/a (Curry out)
2018-19: Curry, LeBron, Harden, Giannis, Lowry
2017-18: Lowry, Curry, VanVleet, Paul, Harden
2016-17: Curry, LeBron, Paul, Lowry, Gobert
2015-16: Curry, LeBron, Durant, Leonard, Lowry
2014-15: Curry, Paul, LeBron, Korver, Durant
2013-14: Paul, Curry, Durant, Harden, Nowitzki
Curry tally: five times #1, two times #2, one DNP.
I'm assuming they build in a lot of priors such that these are not totally independent results, but even then: does their formula include adjustments for having green eyes and being a scratch golfer?
I'm not sure where we're saying anything different from each other. If Bouknight develops, they could always flip a guard for a big. I just think their ceiling is kinda capped with that core.
They lost Graham & Monk so they have plenty of guard minutes, though.
PJ is going to be a + player in 2 years. I don't think Lamelo's ceiling is as high as some people think, but yeah.
It's crazy how locked up all the good players are already.
There are 5 huge contract guys on PO:
Wall $42.8m
Harden $42.8m
RW $41.4m
Beal $35.9m
Kyrie $34.1m
Nets are supposedly in talks to extend both Harden & Kyrie. Wall & RW would be insane to turn down their POs. Leaving just Beal of that group.
After those 5, the next highest contracts coming off the books as of right now are:
GHarris $21m
AGordon $20m
LaVine $19.5m
Dragic $18m
Rubio $17m
Of that group, only LaVine really moves the needle. Have heard rumors the Bulls might be looking to move on from LaVine & that's why they invested so heavily in Derozan, but we shall see. Aaron Gordon also a somewhat interesting player.
& beyond that the best FAs are like JV, Ingles, Thad, RoCo, TBryant, SloMo, Schröder, JRich?
It makes sense that given this climate even more teams are locking their guys up now.
There are 5 huge contract guys on PO:
Wall $42.8m
Harden $42.8m
RW $41.4m
Beal $35.9m
Kyrie $34.1m
Nets are supposedly in talks to extend both Harden & Kyrie. Wall & RW would be insane to turn down their POs. Leaving just Beal of that group.
After those 5, the next highest contracts coming off the books as of right now are:
GHarris $21m
AGordon $20m
LaVine $19.5m
Dragic $18m
Rubio $17m
Of that group, only LaVine really moves the needle. Have heard rumors the Bulls might be looking to move on from LaVine & that's why they invested so heavily in Derozan, but we shall see. Aaron Gordon also a somewhat interesting player.
& beyond that the best FAs are like JV, Ingles, Thad, RoCo, TBryant, SloMo, Schröder, JRich?
It makes sense that given this climate even more teams are locking their guys up now.
Oh boy. Nerlens has some major cajones. I wonder how much of his story is accurate.
https://theathletic.com/news/knicks-nerlens-noel-sues-agent-rich-paul-alleges-58-million-in-lost-earnings/5iMVNZvw03BY?fbclid=IwAR3EYnG-2_RpUNvb4hoTMXhgCQYKrCXNCaKNjC0M8yi1Moa08vOwjRFpM-4
https://theathletic.com/news/knicks-nerlens-noel-sues-agent-rich-paul-alleges-58-million-in-lost-earnings/5iMVNZvw03BY?fbclid=IwAR3EYnG-2_RpUNvb4hoTMXhgCQYKrCXNCaKNjC0M8yi1Moa08vOwjRFpM-4
He also has a three year contract worth 31 million. A lot can happen in three years.
What a total surprise that Rich Paul and Klutch Sports 1) interfered with a $70 million deal procured by Noel’s agent, Happy Walters, and 2) didn’t represent their client Noel with a competent level of representation.
Noel wisely secured a big deal before dropping this bomb on one of the most powerful men in the NBA orbit. If he did it earlier, teams might have shied away from him, to not alienate Paul.
He is suing for the 3 lost years and the “bad advise” he was given in turning down the Mavs offer. It seems like something must have triggered him to do this now……probably waiting until he secured a decent contract so he wouldn’t get blackballed out of the league.
Edit: Yup what TripleOT said about the timing.
LeBron is clearly out there trying to secure the next generation of franchise players to keep his agency going. But Klutch is so sleazy I’m not sure how much cachet they’ll be able to hang on to after he moves in to the Lakers front office.
Jared Dudley retires and becomes an NBA assistant coach. Not a fan of Kidd at all, but happy a BC standout will be getting coaching experience.
View: https://twitter.com/JaredDudley619/status/1430251841795727360?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1430251841795727360%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsports.yahoo.com%2Fle-bron-james-is-really-not-happy-about-jared-dudleys-departure-to-mavs-bench-203530072.html
View: https://twitter.com/JaredDudley619/status/1430251841795727360?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1430251841795727360%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsports.yahoo.com%2Fle-bron-james-is-really-not-happy-about-jared-dudleys-departure-to-mavs-bench-203530072.html
I’ll go out on a limb and say he is a Head Coach in this league within 5 years. He probably could have already had a head job if he hung them up five years ago but he was a smart enough player to manage to stick around and get paid over half of his career earnings during that time. What a country!
Taking this over here from the JRich thread
there is optimism in Sac-town
https://www.thecoldwire.com/reasons-kings-can-reach-postseason-in-2022/
If I'm McNair I'm trying my damndest to spark a Fox+ / Simmons+ discussion
Another player that timelines/fits with the JAYz and could be available in the next 18tmths in a blow-up situation is Brandon Ingram.
Griffith is doing some odd stuff down there after a nice deal with Memphis (Valanciunas for Adams/Bledsoe/1st rounder)
Yeah, Ingram and Tatum have some serious Bromance going too. I think, anyway. That or they have an incredibly heated rivalry. They always play well against each other.Taking this over here from the JRich thread
there is optimism in Sac-town
https://www.thecoldwire.com/reasons-kings-can-reach-postseason-in-2022/
If I'm McNair I'm trying my damndest to spark a Fox+ / Simmons+ discussion
Another player that timelines/fits with the JAYz and could be available in the next 18tmths in a blow-up situation is Brandon Ingram.
Griffith is doing some odd stuff down there after a nice deal with Memphis (Valanciunas for Adams/Bledsoe/1st rounder)
Edit: I'd love Ingram but I've been a fan of us since back in his LA days. He has the tools to play defense too. Imagine the Length of a TL/Tatum/Ingram/Brown lineup. The passing and shooting would be pretty good too.
According to Spotrac $100k guaranteed a few days ago & the rest not until opening night.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/jabari-parker-15354/
Since leaving Boston, Rondo is around 36% on close to 1,000 3-pt attempts and broke over 40% last season.
Yeah, he's not quite the same guy that made us hold our breath whenever he took a jump shot in in Boston. Still, two things:
1. All 3p%'s aren't created equal. 27 of his 36 made 3s (75%) were considered wide open (without a defender within 6 feet). 40% for Rondo isn't the same as 40% for most other shooters. Compare that with a few Celtics we spent last year watching:
Pritchard: 66% wide open
Brown: 31%
Smart: 53%
Williams: 81%
Ojeleye: 59%,
Tatum: 18%
Nesmith: 33%
It's nice that Rondo's 3 point percentage has climbed up to decent looking, but he's still not respected by defenders and his 3p% looks fine because most of his 3s are wide, wide open. That's not helpful for creating space in the halfcourt for the Lakers' stars to drive.
2. Even if he were a legitimately great 3 point shooter, unless Rondo is starting (or closing) games for the Lakers alongside Westbrook/LeBron/Davis, he won't solve their problem. When your three best players are all mediocre to terrible shooters, things will get rough late in games that count.
All good points, but it’s still going to sting if Playoff Rondo helps the Lakers to another title, while the Celtics remain stuck on 17.
Same “playoff Rondo” who will be 36 in this season’s playoffs, has a career .490 TS in the playoffs, and was a -14.2 net on-off in last season’s playoffs for the Clips, who kept him mostly stapled to the bench in key games?
I’m not sure the MFL odds at #18 this season are any better than those of the Celtics … maybe slightly, but only cos they don’t have to get through MIL and BKN.
I’m not concerned with Rondo at this stage being much of a factor. He essentially beat out Isaiah Thomas for the last available roster spot.
It makes me feel extra old that I was middle aged when Boston drafted him and he's heading into his middle ages.
https://theathletic.com/2775013/2021/08/25/from-pistons-to-rockets-no-10-1-ranking-the-nbas-best-offseason-moves-by-team/
Aldridge has the Clippers and Rockets as his 1 & 2 for their offseason work. I know there are a few Rockets/Clip fans around here so I've posted. Didn't realize Eric Bledsoe had so much value?
2) LA Clippers
2020-21 record: 47-25; lost in Western Conference finals
Added: G Eric Bledsoe (acquired from Memphis); F Justise Winslow (two years, $7.9 million); G Keon Johnson (draft rights acquired from New York); G Jason Preston (draft rights acquired from Orlando); G/F B.J. Boston (draft rights acquired from New Orleans); $8.3 million TPE (acquired from Memphis)
Lost: G Patrick Beverley (traded to Memphis); G Rajon Rondo (traded to Memphis); C Daniel Oturu (traded to Memphis); G Quentin Grimes (draft rights traded to New York); 2024 second-round pick (traded to New York); 2026 second-round pick (traded to Orlando); 2026 second-round pick (traded to New Orleans)
Retained: F Kawhi Leonard (four years, $176 million); G Reggie Jackson (two years, $22 million); F Nicolas Batum (two years, $6.2 million); F/C Serge Ibaka (exercised $9.7 million player option)
Extended: None
Returning from injury: Leonard (torn ACL)
The skinny: Yes, it helps to have a gazillionaire owner who’ll happily go deep into the luxury tax. It helps to be in Los Angeles. It helps to have a veteran team that broke through to the franchise’s first-ever conference finals appearance. It helps that Jackson wanted to return to the team he thinks resurrected his career rather than chase the last free-agent dollar. But that still left work to be done. The Clippers did so, and responsibly: For a total $62 million for next season, the Clips will run it back with Leonard, Jackson, Batum and Ibaka, alongside Paul George and Marcus Morris — and Bledsoe, who’ll be on a second tour of duty in L.A. As the Clips weren’t likely to put any more money into any of the guys they moved to the Grizzlies, saving luxury tax coin and getting Bledsoe is first-rate stuff. Leonard’s willingness to work with the team quickly and never seriously consider opportunities elsewhere speaks to the relationship he’s built with the organization. The Clips are deep and well-coached, and they’ve now maxed out their contending window through 2024, which should give them five seasons (four, if you discount next year because of Leonard’s likely season-long absence) with the Kawhi-PG13 core in its prime.
1) Houston Rockets
2020-21 record: 17-55; did not make playoffs
Added: C Daniel Theis (acquired from Chicago); G Jalen Green (first round, 2nd pick overall); F/C Alperin Sengun (draft rights acquired from Oklahoma City); F Usman Garuba (first round, 23rd pick overall); G/F Josh Christopher (first round, 24th pick overall)
Lost: F Kelly Olynyk (signed with Detroit); F Sterling Brown (signed with Dallas); 2024, 2026 first-round picks (protected 1-4; traded to Oklahoma City); 2027 second-round pick (traded to Oklahoma City via pick swap)
Retained: F David Nwaba (three years, $15 million)
Extended: None
Returning from injury: G John Wall (hamstring)
The skinny: This is a haul from GM Rafael Stone and his front office; they got a lot of picks and took a lot of big swings. There were many around the league who thought Green was the most talented player in the draft. He’s got superstar potential both on the court and as the face of a franchise. Sengun was considered the best player available outside the States; he excelled in the tough Turkish League, and the Rockets did well to move up to get him. Garuba is one of the top defensive players available anywhere. He did nothing to dissuade that notion playing for Spain against the U.S. Olympic team. Christopher impressed teams by playing in Chicago rather than sitting out and protecting his likely draft position. Now, the Rockets won’t hit on all of them. And it will take a while for their bounty to come of age; the NBA tends to eat its opponents’ young. But Houston’s strategy, less than a year from turning the page on the Harden Era, is clear and looks promising: The defensive possibilities down the road are mouth-watering. The Rockets’ rookies this year, along with young holdovers Christian Wood, Kevin Porter Jr. and Jae’Sean Tate, can and will grow in tandem with second-year coach Stephen Silas. Check back in 2023. Things could be lovely in Clutch City.
Aldridge has the Clippers and Rockets as his 1 & 2 for their offseason work. I know there are a few Rockets/Clip fans around here so I've posted. Didn't realize Eric Bledsoe had so much value?
2) LA Clippers
2020-21 record: 47-25; lost in Western Conference finals
Added: G Eric Bledsoe (acquired from Memphis); F Justise Winslow (two years, $7.9 million); G Keon Johnson (draft rights acquired from New York); G Jason Preston (draft rights acquired from Orlando); G/F B.J. Boston (draft rights acquired from New Orleans); $8.3 million TPE (acquired from Memphis)
Lost: G Patrick Beverley (traded to Memphis); G Rajon Rondo (traded to Memphis); C Daniel Oturu (traded to Memphis); G Quentin Grimes (draft rights traded to New York); 2024 second-round pick (traded to New York); 2026 second-round pick (traded to Orlando); 2026 second-round pick (traded to New Orleans)
Retained: F Kawhi Leonard (four years, $176 million); G Reggie Jackson (two years, $22 million); F Nicolas Batum (two years, $6.2 million); F/C Serge Ibaka (exercised $9.7 million player option)
Extended: None
Returning from injury: Leonard (torn ACL)
The skinny: Yes, it helps to have a gazillionaire owner who’ll happily go deep into the luxury tax. It helps to be in Los Angeles. It helps to have a veteran team that broke through to the franchise’s first-ever conference finals appearance. It helps that Jackson wanted to return to the team he thinks resurrected his career rather than chase the last free-agent dollar. But that still left work to be done. The Clippers did so, and responsibly: For a total $62 million for next season, the Clips will run it back with Leonard, Jackson, Batum and Ibaka, alongside Paul George and Marcus Morris — and Bledsoe, who’ll be on a second tour of duty in L.A. As the Clips weren’t likely to put any more money into any of the guys they moved to the Grizzlies, saving luxury tax coin and getting Bledsoe is first-rate stuff. Leonard’s willingness to work with the team quickly and never seriously consider opportunities elsewhere speaks to the relationship he’s built with the organization. The Clips are deep and well-coached, and they’ve now maxed out their contending window through 2024, which should give them five seasons (four, if you discount next year because of Leonard’s likely season-long absence) with the Kawhi-PG13 core in its prime.
1) Houston Rockets
2020-21 record: 17-55; did not make playoffs
Added: C Daniel Theis (acquired from Chicago); G Jalen Green (first round, 2nd pick overall); F/C Alperin Sengun (draft rights acquired from Oklahoma City); F Usman Garuba (first round, 23rd pick overall); G/F Josh Christopher (first round, 24th pick overall)
Lost: F Kelly Olynyk (signed with Detroit); F Sterling Brown (signed with Dallas); 2024, 2026 first-round picks (protected 1-4; traded to Oklahoma City); 2027 second-round pick (traded to Oklahoma City via pick swap)
Retained: F David Nwaba (three years, $15 million)
Extended: None
Returning from injury: G John Wall (hamstring)
The skinny: This is a haul from GM Rafael Stone and his front office; they got a lot of picks and took a lot of big swings. There were many around the league who thought Green was the most talented player in the draft. He’s got superstar potential both on the court and as the face of a franchise. Sengun was considered the best player available outside the States; he excelled in the tough Turkish League, and the Rockets did well to move up to get him. Garuba is one of the top defensive players available anywhere. He did nothing to dissuade that notion playing for Spain against the U.S. Olympic team. Christopher impressed teams by playing in Chicago rather than sitting out and protecting his likely draft position. Now, the Rockets won’t hit on all of them. And it will take a while for their bounty to come of age; the NBA tends to eat its opponents’ young. But Houston’s strategy, less than a year from turning the page on the Harden Era, is clear and looks promising: The defensive possibilities down the road are mouth-watering. The Rockets’ rookies this year, along with young holdovers Christian Wood, Kevin Porter Jr. and Jae’Sean Tate, can and will grow in tandem with second-year coach Stephen Silas. Check back in 2023. Things could be lovely in Clutch City.