2021-22 NBA Off-season Thread

Cellar-Door

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I don't think HOU even considers Wood for Herro unless MIA is adding picks.
My read this year has been that Herro does not have much value, and there were a lot of stories about MIA being unhappy with his work and attitude throughout the year.
 

Cesar Crespo

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yeah this looks a lot like Danny to Utah
All part of the long con to trade Donovan Mitchell for Al Horford. Then Brad returns to coaching in 22/23 and Ainge quits the Utah job to return as Boston's GM.

Or he just does us the Kevin McHale solid.
 

TripleOT

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Does anyone see Ainge taking on a heavy role with the Jazz, or more of a Jerry West style consigliere role?
 

Kliq

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Having Simmons and Draymond on the same team would seem to make little sense for a million different reasons, not the least of which I think Draymond would murder Simmons if he didn't shoot the basketball.
 

Cellar-Door

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Having Simmons and Draymond on the same team would seem to make little sense for a million different reasons, not the least of which I think Draymond would murder Simmons if he didn't shoot the basketball.
Which would be wildly hypocritical given Draymond makes Simmons look like prime JR Smith out there.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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EvilEmpire

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With regard to Simmons as a fit for the Warriors, how much longer is Draymond going to play at a high level? Is his timeline roughly the same as expected for Steph and Clay?

Simmons and Draymond together doesn't make much sense, but Simmons fulfilling the role that Draymond plays for that team sounds better.
 

Kliq

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Siakam to Golden State would be a good move. He plays super hard and is great if he doesn't have to be the first option, he can shoot and score, rebound in smaller lineups and can match up with bigger wings. He will thrive playing with the Warriors core. Wiseman + #7 is a high price but I think the West is wide open next year so it makes sense for GS to go all-in.
 

TripleOT

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How do you pick Wiseman with Melo Ball available, and move on from him so quickly? The Warrior front office has had a spectacular run, but that is horrible. Picking the right guy at 2, followed by a good player with the Minny pick, would have set the bridge to the post-Steph era.
 

Cellar-Door

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Siakam to Golden State would be a good move. He plays super hard and is great if he doesn't have to be the first option, he can shoot and score, rebound in smaller lineups and can match up with bigger wings. He will thrive playing with the Warriors core. Wiseman + #7 is a high price but I think the West is wide open next year so it makes sense for GS to go all-in.
Can he shoot?
He's a career 32% 3pt shooter, and he only has 1 year as a decent shooter, he's a career 27% 3pt shooter in the playoffs.

He had an outlier year in 2018-19, otherwise he's been below league average TS% every year of his career.

I really don't get the Siakam hype AT ALL. 2018-19 Siakam was a good player, maybe even a fringe All-Star.... every other year of Siakam is probably a worse player than Marcus Smart.
Would GS trade Wiseman and 7 for Marcus if he was willing to extend?
 

nighthob

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Can he shoot?
He's a career 32% 3pt shooter, and he only has 1 year as a decent shooter, he's a career 27% 3pt shooter in the playoffs.

He had an outlier year in 2018-19, otherwise he's been below league average TS% every year of his career.

I really don't get the Siakam hype AT ALL. 2018-19 Siakam was a good player, maybe even a fringe All-Star.... every other year of Siakam is probably a worse player than Marcus Smart.
Would GS trade Wiseman and 7 for Marcus if he was willing to extend?
I’m with you on this. It’s not like there’s any untapped potential there anymore since he’s 27. He’s OKish, better as a third option guy. As the Warriors need to include Wiggins’s equally mediocre deal that makes up some of the value differential.
 

slamminsammya

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How do you pick Wiseman with Melo Ball available, and move on from him so quickly? The Warrior front office has had a spectacular run, but that is horrible. Picking the right guy at 2, followed by a good player with the Minny pick, would have set the bridge to the post-Steph era.
I think the idea is its dumb to start building a bridge when you have prime Steph right now. I agree with that actually. They are definitely selling low on Wiseman but you gotta roll the dice when you have Curry playing like he did and you hope Klay coming back makes them a legit contender.
 

TripleOT

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I think the idea is its dumb to start building a bridge when you have prime Steph right now. I agree with that actually. They are definitely selling low on Wiseman but you gotta roll the dice when you have Curry playing like he did and you hope Klay coming back makes them a legit contender.
They could have maximized Curry’s prime and build a bridge to the future by picking Ball. The way the NBA is trending, center isn’t a position that a team needs a great player to man. The Warriors in the Steph era were at their best when not playing a center
 

Kliq

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A Curry/Ball tandem really wouldn't be beneficial to either player. Ball doesn't have a ton of off-ball skills and him being the third option in GS wouldn't be the best place for him to go, nor would it substantially help Golden State in the next few seasons. It would be nice to have a secondary ball-handler, but ultimately Golden State is going to want the ball mostly in Curry's hands and for a team that is trying to win right now, they wouldn't have the patience to deal with Ball's growing pains, of which there would be a lot of even for a talented young point guard. Wiseman did not have an awesome rookie year, but having a super-athletic 7 footer that can block shots and also flashed some shooting touch was a worthy pick at #2, even Ball was a technically better player.

I can't think of too many times where a great team successfully bridged from one era to the next. I guess the Spurs going from Robinson to Duncan, but Duncan was an all-time great talent right from the get-go so that is incredibly rare. I think most teams with cores like the Warriors are more interested in picking up one or two more big guns and making another run at a title, not wasting time and assets to develop a post-Curry future. When they eventually blow it up, they will have earned an enormous amount of good will with the fans and can go into a true rebuild mode for a few years.
 

Cesar Crespo

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How do you pick Wiseman with Melo Ball available, and move on from him so quickly? The Warrior front office has had a spectacular run, but that is horrible. Picking the right guy at 2, followed by a good player with the Minny pick, would have set the bridge to the post-Steph era.
A lot of people weren't high on Melo Ball.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Ball must have been a weird scouting job. No college play to compare with other similarly aged players, instead went to Lithuania, then a made up league his dad created, then Australia. Oldest brother was overhyped and while he’s turned into a fine role player, certainly didn’t live up to that hype; middle brother a total flameout. Having to deal with the attention-seeking father might factor in as well.
 

snowmanny

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Ball must have been a weird scouting job. No college play to compare with other similarly aged players, instead went to Lithuania, then a made up league his dad created, then Australia. Oldest brother was overhyped and while he’s turned into a fine role player, certainly didn’t live up to that hype; middle brother a total flameout. Having to deal with the attention-seeking father might factor in as well.
I don’t think I’ve seen the father or read a quote by him in the last 18 months. But that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s not still a nuisance, just that from a distance it all seems toned way down.
 

Kliq

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IIRC by the time he went to Australia I think LaMelo had kicked LaVar to the curb and began working with a renowned shooting coach. I've also heard speculation that LaMelo wanted to go to Charlotte because he knew he would get the best chance to shine immediately there, and tanked his interview with GS.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Ball must have been a weird scouting job. No college play to compare with other similarly aged players, instead went to Lithuania, then a made up league his dad created, then Australia. Oldest brother was overhyped and while he’s turned into a fine role player, certainly didn’t live up to that hype; middle brother a total flameout. Having to deal with the attention-seeking father might factor in as well.
The middle brother was never good at basketball and it was known all along.
 

HomeRunBaker

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How do you pick Wiseman with Melo Ball available, and move on from him so quickly? The Warrior front office has had a spectacular run, but that is horrible. Picking the right guy at 2, followed by a good player with the Minny pick, would have set the bridge to the post-Steph era.
Wiseman was both higher ranked in every mock I saw and was theoretically a good fit with the Warriors. It would have blown the entire league away if GS passed on him to select Ball even though the latter had shown incredible skills along with great size to play Curry’s position.

Ball must have been a weird scouting job. No college play to compare with other similarly aged players, instead went to Lithuania, then a made up league his dad created, then Australia. Oldest brother was overhyped and while he’s turned into a fine role player, certainly didn’t live up to that hype; middle brother a total flameout. Having to deal with the attention-seeking father might factor in as well.
I don’t know what this is all about.

His older brother the “role player” is about to sign a max or near-max deal. The other brother you refer to as a “total flameout” was a middling college recruit with one offer who was never considered an NBA prospect.
 

nighthob

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A Curry/Ball tandem really wouldn't be beneficial to either player. Ball doesn't have a ton of off-ball skills and him being the third option in GS wouldn't be the best place for him to go, nor would it substantially help Golden State in the next few seasons. It would be nice to have a secondary ball-handler, but ultimately Golden State is going to want the ball mostly in Curry's hands and for a team that is trying to win right now, they wouldn't have the patience to deal with Ball's growing pains, of which there would be a lot of even for a talented young point guard. Wiseman did not have an awesome rookie year, but having a super-athletic 7 footer that can block shots and also flashed some shooting touch was a worthy pick at #2, even Ball was a technically better player.

I can't think of too many times where a great team successfully bridged from one era to the next. I guess the Spurs going from Robinson to Duncan, but Duncan was an all-time great talent right from the get-go so that is incredibly rare. I think most teams with cores like the Warriors are more interested in picking up one or two more big guns and making another run at a title, not wasting time and assets to develop a post-Curry future. When they eventually blow it up, they will have earned an enormous amount of good will with the fans and can go into a true rebuild mode for a few years.
I said at the time that the pick should have been dealt for veteran help.
 

Tony C

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Wiseman was both higher ranked in every mock I saw and was theoretically a good fit with the Warriors. It would have blown the entire league away if GS passed on him to select Ball even though the latter had shown incredible skills along with great size to play Curry’s position.

I don’t know what this is all about.
Really? I mean, memory is a tricky thing and I'm not going to back to all the mocks, but I thought there were some arguing that Ball had the highest upside/should go #1 over both Wiseman and Edwards. Who knows.. my memory could well be wrong on that.
His older brother the “role player” is about to sign a max or near-max deal. The other brother you refer to as a “total flameout” was a middling college recruit with one offer who was never considered an NBA prospect.
Yeah, Lonzo is no roleplayer. He's never going to be a super star, but he's a very, very good player.
 

DJnVa

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Really? I mean, memory is a tricky thing and I'm not going to back to all the mocks, but I thought there were some arguing that Ball had the highest upside/should go #1 over both Wiseman and Edwards. Who knows.. my memory could well be wrong on that.
It's not. Consensus may have had Wiseman higher but it doesn't take much googling to find mocks with Ball listed higher.
 

Jimbodandy

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It's not. Consensus may have had Wiseman higher but it doesn't take much googling to find mocks with Ball listed higher.
There were people here who had Ball higher than Wiseman and some who even had him as the best on the board.

Ftr, I was not one of them. But search would show that there were some.
 

Cellar-Door

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The problem with GS was not at all picking Wiseman over LaMelo. It's making a pick at all if your team and coach didn't have the patience to deal with a rookie being a rookie.
GS should have just traded the pick if they were going to not put a rookie in position to succeed and then try to save their own reps by dumping on him. Kerr has been undermining that pick from the moment it was made. Ball probably would have done better, but at the same time, CHA did everything to accomodate his skills and weaknesses. GSW didn't show any interest in that.
 

nighthob

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Really? I mean, memory is a tricky thing and I'm not going to back to all the mocks, but I thought there were some arguing that Ball had the highest upside/should go #1 over both Wiseman and Edwards. Who knows.. my memory could well be wrong on that.
Yeah, Lonzo is no roleplayer. He's never going to be a super star, but he's a very, very good player.
You have about three too many verys in that description.
 

BigMike

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The problem with GS was not at all picking Wiseman over LaMelo. It's making a pick at all if your team and coach didn't have the patience to deal with a rookie being a rookie.
GS should have just traded the pick if they were going to not put a rookie in position to succeed and then try to save their own reps by dumping on him. Kerr has been undermining that pick from the moment it was made. Ball probably would have done better, but at the same time, CHA did everything to accomodate his skills and weaknesses. GSW didn't show any interest in that.
This is where I am at. Maybe there are issues with Wiseman off court, or outside the basic numbers, but Basically Wiseman did as well as you could possibly have hoped for a raw 19 year old who was forced to sit out the previous season.
 

HomeRunBaker

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It's not. Consensus may have had Wiseman higher but it doesn't take much googling to find mocks with Ball listed higher.
It’s tricky bc any mock with Ball over Wiseman was silly as the Warriors were never selecting another PG over him. I don’t recall that ever being discussed as a possibility bc it didn’t make much sense at the time to GS.
 

nighthob

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It’s tricky bc any mock with Ball over Wiseman was silly as the Warriors were never selecting another PG over him. I don’t recall that ever being discussed as a possibility bc it didn’t make much sense at the time to GS.
As I said earlier, the Warriors making the pick at all was a waste of time. Given the draft that was the perfect time to be selling some other team on the Minnesota picks to part with their star.
 

lovegtm

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The problem with GS was not at all picking Wiseman over LaMelo. It's making a pick at all if your team and coach didn't have the patience to deal with a rookie being a rookie.
GS should have just traded the pick if they were going to not put a rookie in position to succeed and then try to save their own reps by dumping on him. Kerr has been undermining that pick from the moment it was made. Ball probably would have done better, but at the same time, CHA did everything to accomodate his skills and weaknesses. GSW didn't show any interest in that.
Light years ahead.