2021 Pats: Possible Coaching Changes

E5 Yaz

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Seems even more important that Josh stays now
I know what you're getting at, but I'm not sure I agree. I'm honestly hoping he leaves for a top job and the Patriots get a fresh set of eyes on the offense next season.
 

tims4wins

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I know what you're getting at, but I'm not sure I agree. I'm honestly hoping he leaves for a top job and the Patriots get a fresh set of eyes on the offense next season.
He gets a lot of flak, as did Charlie Weis and BoB back in the day, but personally I think Josh is the right guy to take over after BB. I think he's a key cog in this entire machine. I may be proven wrong in time on that. I love Josh and will defend him until the end of time.
 

SMU_Sox

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Given the state of our political system, that's really only 2-3 weeks
Only if you're an optimist.

I also believe Josh is a really good schemer and I think he did all he could with the parts given. There is only so much you can do when you have Harry, Byrd, Meyers, and Izzo as your receiving threats for the majority of the year. White was not really a factor this year either. He could only consistently execute the run game well. Next man up and all but they've had a lot of brain-drain the past 3-4 years and if they lose Josh and Caserio would experience even more. I don't blame Josh for walking now though - this is going to be a multi-year project before the offense gets better.
 

E5 Yaz

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I don't blame Josh for walking now though - this is going to be a multi-year project before the offense gets better.
That's one of the reasons I want him to move on. If he really wants to be a head coach again, we'd go through annual game of wondering if he's leaving during the midst of a rebuild

Better to hand the keys to someone committed to putting their stamp on the offense as a stepping stone to a head job, rather than someone who might start the job for a year with a new or rookie quarterback ... then go elsewhere and have to install a new system in Year 2
 

Super Nomario

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That's one of the reasons I want him to move on. If he really wants to be a head coach again, we'd go through annual game of wondering if he's leaving during the midst of a rebuild

Better to hand the keys to someone committed to putting their stamp on the offense as a stepping stone to a head job, rather than someone who might start the job for a year with a new or rookie quarterback ... then go elsewhere and have to install a new system in Year 2
We've just seen guys like Stefanski and Zac Taylor bolt for HC jobs with minimum OC experience. If you don't want your OC to leave for a head coaching gig, your best bet is hiring a Bill O'Brien / Chan Gailey type who has already failed as a head coach.
 

Garshaparra

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We've just seen guys like Stefanski and Zac Taylor bolt for HC jobs with minimum OC experience. If you don't want your OC to leave for a head coaching gig, your best bet is hiring a Bill O'Brien / Chan Gailey type who has already failed as a head coach.
...did Josh McDaniels not already fail as a head coach? Were the Denver Tebow years just a hallucination?

Your point is still very much taken - older guys with failed head coach on their resume are far less likely to bolt. It wouldn't shock me if JMcD rejoins Brady in Tampa after this season, with the Pats picking up BoB as OC.
 

RedOctober3829

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We've just seen guys like Stefanski and Zac Taylor bolt for HC jobs with minimum OC experience. If you don't want your OC to leave for a head coaching gig, your best bet is hiring a Bill O'Brien / Chan Gailey type who has already failed as a head coach.
If Josh leaves, might Bill reach out to old buddy Chip Kelly to run the offense? He's not exactly a lock to remain UCLA's coach anyways.
 

Phil Plantier

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If Josh leaves, might Bill reach out to old buddy Chip Kelly to run the offense? He's not exactly a lock to remain UCLA's coach anyways.
Am I right that older coaches haven't really worked out? Dom Capers, Greg Schiano...
 

RedOctober3829

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Am I right that older coaches haven't really worked out? Dom Capers, Greg Schiano...
You can't really lump everyone into one pile. Individually those didn't work out, but that doesn't mean another one won't. Schiano left for personal reasons(or to keep himself open for college head coaching jobs) and Capers left for a promotion to be the DC in Green Bay.
 

E5 Yaz

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It wouldn't shock me if JMcD rejoins Brady in Tampa after this season, with the Pats picking up BoB as OC.
The only way McDaniels goes to Tampa is if Arians is fired and Josh is named head coach. There's no chance Arians hired him as OC, or that Josh would take such a sideways move, given the egos involved and the stark difference in offensive styles.
 

NomarsFool

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Understanding the impact / performance of coaches is always difficult, but what about Stevie B? The defense hasn't been great this year, which personnel certainly has an impact on. However, averaging 11 guys on the field is not really the goal here - seems like having multiple instances of too many or too few men on the field seems like a pretty cardinal sin for a coach.
 

luckiestman

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The only way McDaniels goes to Tampa is if Arians is fired and Josh is named head coach. There's no chance Arians hired him as OC, or that Josh would take such a sideways move, given the egos involved and the stark difference in offensive styles.
That was implied by the post you’re responding to. BoB as OC, Colts quitter as HC
 

tims4wins

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Understanding the impact / performance of coaches is always difficult, but what about Stevie B? The defense hasn't been great this year, which personnel certainly has an impact on. However, averaging 11 guys on the field is not really the goal here - seems like having multiple instances of too many or too few men on the field seems like a pretty cardinal sin for a coach.
This is a fantastic line
 

E5 Yaz

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Consider it implied :) TB (the team) is very much in GFIN mode, and TB (the player) will have some serious sway if the team fails to advance in the playoffs to demand McDaniels take over the HC job and send Arians back into retirement.
Implying after the fact is your basic internet posting CYA
 

RedOctober3829

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Consider it implied :) TB (the team) is very much in GFIN mode, and TB (the player) will have some serious sway if the team fails to advance in the playoffs to demand McDaniels take over the HC job and send Arians back into retirement.
The Patriots do not have to let McDaniels interview with any team if it's a lateral move. They also aren't firing Arians for a 43-year old QB who will not be there long.
 

Harry Hooper

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He gets a lot of flak, as did Charlie Weis and BoB back in the day, but personally I think Josh is the right guy to take over after BB. I think he's a key cog in this entire machine. I may be proven wrong in time on that. I love Josh and will defend him until the end of time.
So he goes to be HC of the Chargers in January, then gets fired right about when BB is wrapping up. Returns to Foxboro then as HC with more experience.

Of course, if he does well for the Chargers, it's unlikely he's coming back.
 

Garshaparra

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Implying after the fact is your basic internet posting CYA
*shrug* It's 100% what I meant. Apologies for not being clear the first time. I fully expect McDaniels to be a top candidate for several jobs this offseason. He'd be silly not to consider leaving, given the Pats rebuilding ahead, and several plum opportunities out there. If Arians shits the bed, Tampa Bay would be a perfect landing spot for him, given that Brady is not a 1 year rental.
 

NortheasternPJ

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The Patriots do not have to let McDaniels interview with any team if it's a lateral move. They also aren't firing Arians for a 43-year old QB who will not be there long.
From a lot of reports Brady and McDaniels weren't seeing eye to eye at all by the end anyways. I don't think this is really even a real issue.
 

NortheasternPJ

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*shrug* It's 100% what I meant. Apologies for not being clear the first time. I fully expect McDaniels to be a top candidate for several jobs this offseason. He'd be silly not to consider leaving, given the Pats rebuilding ahead, and several plum opportunities out there. If Arians shits the bed, Tampa Bay would be a perfect landing spot for him, given that Brady is not a 1 year rental.
Why? Their offense is awful, they're starting an awful QB, they haven't developed Stidham so he can start over one of the worst QB's in the NFL, McDaniels has really only had success with Brady and he's turned down multiple jobs. I don't see it with Josh this year.
 

E5 Yaz

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Albert Breer with a wee bit of trolling?

The Patriots’ staffing situation is another one to keep an eye on. QB coach Jedd Fisch is gone and OC Josh McDaniels might be too. Jets coach Adam Gase (assuming he’s fired), Browns assistant/ex-Patriots WR coach Chad O’Shea and current tight ends coach Nick Caley are three guys who I think could factor into the new setup. Gase worked for McDaniels in Denver, and O’Shea left Foxboro on good terms two years ago.
 

tims4wins

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I don't get the feeling that Josh is going to leave. At this point I think he is just going to sit tight for the next 2-4 years until BB is ready to hand over the reins.
 

DonBuddinE6

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The Guardian speculates about BB calling it quits:

It doesn’t feel like Belichick is slowing down. But, at some point, Belichick is going to walk away from the Patriots’ job. Belichick tried rolling things back for one more push this season, band-aiding together a roster that was missing the core of its defense due to Covid defections and which lacked a quarterback given Tom Brady’s move to Florida.

Is Belichick, at his advanced age, post-Covid, ready and willing after a par year to start another rebuild? He has no quarterback, and the backbone of the roster that delivered the last Super Bowl is starting to creak – a majority have already or are expected to exit this offseason. Plus: Belichick’s staff is expected to be picked apart again during the offseason, both on the coaching side and in the Patriots front office. Is it possible he opts to walk away before things get ugly?
 

E5 Yaz

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Kyed on Gase

I might have started this “rumor?” But I wouldn’t necessarily call it that. It’s more like informed speculation.
The puzzle pieces fit, though. After Gase got fired by the Miami Dolphins in 2019, Bill Belichick called him up to see what his plans were for the future. That was the same offseason the Patriots lost assistant quarterbacks coach Jerry Schuplinski and wide receivers coach Chad O’Shea to the Dolphins.
Gase took the New York Jets’ head coaching job. The Patriots added wide receivers to special teams coordinator Joe Judge’s responsibilities and hired Mick Lombardi as assistant quarterbacks coach. When Judge left to become the head coach of the New York Giants, Lombardi moved to wide receivers and the Patriots hired Jedd Fisch as quarterbacks coach.
Fisch is now gone, and Gase will likely come available after being fired this offseason. He could slot in pretty easily as the new quarterbacks coach. He still uses the Patriots’ Erhardt-Perkins “system” to communicate plays.
Gase coached under Josh McDaniels with the Denver Broncos. Belichick went out of his wayto praise Gase this week while answering a question about Jets quarterback Sam Darnold, saying that, “I don’t think you could have anybody better coaching him.”
I know Patriots fans might not be very happy with the prospect of Gase coming into the building, but it’s not as if he’d be leading the team.
 

Salem's Lot

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Er ok? Who the heck is this?
Probably someone who didn’t get an answer the he wanted from Belichick during a press conference 10 years ago. Nobody should take anything seriously in regards to Belichick or his future. There are a ton of reporters that have been waiting years cut this guy up and the knives are out.
 

BigJimEd

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Anybody who claims to know that doesn’t or hasn’t worked for the Pats probably can’t give you a good answer.
Here's one former employee who said Caserio is not a yes man.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers general manager Jason Licht, who came up the ranks with Caserio in New England, said that the Patriots’ director of player personnel is “very cut and dry with his opinions.”

“Nick is definitely not someone who is just going to agree with his boss, Bill in this case,” Licht said. “I think this is really why Bill has entrusted him to run the personnel department for him, because he knows he’s getting original thoughts. He knows he’s getting a pure evolution, and he’s not getting someone to tell him what they think he wants them to tell them.”
I really don't see Belichick surrounding himself with yes man.

Schefter says the Texans are making another run at Caserio as well.
 

Super Nomario

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How much does Caserio actually do anyway? Is he just a 'yes man' to Bill and simply a body so Bill can spend more time on more important things? Or does he actually have imput on FA and the draft?
My understanding is Caserio does probably 80-90% of what a GM normally does, he just doesn't get final say on decisions.

EDIT: I should caveat this, because we know Caserio does do some weird stuff, like take a role at practices, and it's also important to note that the GM role is not 100% consistent from team to team. Some GMs are more hands-on with scouting, some more hands-off, etc.
 

Super Nomario

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Worth noting that the Patriots promoted Dave Ziegler (yet another John Carroll guy) to Assistant Director of Player Personnel last year, so presumably he's waiting in the wings if Caserio does leave. They also have Eliot Wolf in the building.

It's also worth noting that they don't currently have anyone with the title Pro Scouting Director or (Ziegler's previous title) or College Scouting Director (Monti Ossenfort left last offseason to take a job with Tennessee). Those are the next positions down the ladder. So the bench is thinning out.
 

Mloaf71

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IT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN, but, what would Belichick fetch in a trade at his age (assuming he agreed to not retire immediately)?

Imagine turning the reigns over to McD, bring BoB (or someone similar) in as OC, and restocking the cupboard with picks and players in a single offseason?

Yes, I'm still working the holiday booze out of my system...
 

Ale Xander

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Is Ivan Fears retiring this year? (Since I see Troy Brown is co-RB coach as well as his KR/PR responsibility.)

I know he's probably "overqualified," but what about bringing in A Lynn as RB coach and move Brown over to WR to replace Mick Lombardi. To quote the great philosopher Shania Twain, the WR's didn't impress me much this year.

It would also be future insurance in case Josh leaves. /ducks
 

Van Everyman

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They did everything they could to block Nick from going to Houston, it's obvious the organization values him tremendously.
Or Easterby does, anyway. There was some buzz that after being shut out of the GM search in Houston in the early going that the FO would bring in a few Easterby faves later in the process. That appears to be happening.

Edit: Oh, I realize you mean the Patriots when you say "the organization values him tremendously."
 

Cellar-Door

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Houston gets it man? 1) proofreading 2) is he saying it’s a done deal or using that phrase for a mere interview?
It means they haven't or can't announce it yet, but it's done. It's how Woj does NBA tweets when he's not allowed to say it's done.