2021 PGA Championship- Kiawah Ocean Course

bosox4283

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My head is still spinning...
  • Did Phil really show as little emotion after winning the tournament as I think he did? (Is he a golfing psychopath, like the NLU guys keep saying he is?)
Who are the NLU guys?

When Tiger won, it was clear that the victory was an emotional release for him. When I watched Phil win, I could not discern his reaction or what his muted reaction meant. It was odd. Prior to the tournament, I got the sense that he really had to reimagine his whole approach to the game, so I was expecting a similar moment of release. Maybe he was so obsessed with his transformation that he stripped out all the emotions from the pursuit.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I think if his wife was there, we probably would have seen some more emotion from Phil.

I know a few guys that hang out with Phil, and the guy just fucking loves to golf, loves to gamble, loves to go for it. He was probably the only one on Earth that never doubted that he could do this again. Even when he was playing like shit, you'd constantly hear sound bytes of him saying things like, the results aren't there, but I'm thiissss close.
 

yeahlunchbox

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I sorta miss the COVID days with no fans.
I'm in the minority with you, but I think golf absolutely suffers with fans in attendance. I found it so refreshing last year not to have to listen to people scream "get in the hole" when guys hit their tee shots on par 5's and I thought the golf courses looked better on TV not having grandstands on them.
 

SoxJox

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I think Koepka's knee might have been bothering him more than he let on. To tell you the truth, I had forgotten about his surgery, but I did notice a couple of times he seemed to be limping - even if only a tad. It wasn't until later that one of the analysts pointed out why he was not bending at the knee to mark his ball or read putts. And, at least until the back final 9, when he couldn't find a fairway, that was the weakest part of Sunday.
 

cshea

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I think Koepka's knee might have been bothering him more than he let on. To tell you the truth, I had forgotten about his surgery, but I did notice a couple of times he seemed to be limping - even if only a tad. It wasn't until later that one of the analysts pointed out why he was not bending at the knee to mark his ball or read putts. And, at least until the back final 9, when he couldn't find a fairway, that was the weakest part of Sunday.
Brooks had surgery in March that has a 6 month recovery. He really shouldn't be playing right now, but he damn near won another major. The scar tissue is piling up for him but part of that is because he's in contention in every single one. It is remarkable how he shows up on major week and is a virtual certain to be part of the story. This is his major run starting in 2017:

T11, 1, T6, T13, DNP, (2018 Masters) 1, T39, 1, T2, 1, 2, T4, T7, T29, DNP (2020 US Open), MC. T2

In his last 15 starts, he's made 14 cuts, won 4, finished 2nd 3 more times. 10 top 10's in 15 majors wild. TheT29 was last years PGA where he was T4 and 2 shots off the lead heading into Sunday before shooting 74 and drifting back (after calling everyone losers after Saturday's round). His only MC was at this years Masters where he was playing less than 2 months removed from the aforementioned knee surgery.
 

barbed wire Bob

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My head is still spinning...
  • Wait...Phil went to the claw grip out of the blue on the 71st green? What the hell?
  • Does this greatly increase the likelihood of the (heavily-backed-by-Phil) Premier/Super Golf League coming into existence?
  • I generally like and root for Louis Oosthuizen, but that double-drop he took on Saturday was so scummy, there's no way karma could allow him to win yesterday. (Especially given how Phil had very nobly not given himself the benefit of any doubt off of that same tee.)
  • I'm 47 years old - this has to be the last major won by someone older than me at the time he wins it, right? (Or is Phil himself going to win another one of these?)
  • Even in victory, did the PGA at Bethpage ruin Brooks Koepka's ability to close on Sunday in majors?
  • Did Phil really show as little emotion after winning the tournament as I think he did? (Is he a golfing psychopath, like the NLU guys keep saying he is?)
  • Is Phil going to make the Ryder Cup team, and would that be a good thing for Team USA's chances?
I recently talked about this with my golf pro. His take is that the only thing Phil really cares about is winning the U.S. Open since that would give him a career Grand Slam which is the only thing missing from his resume.
The pro’s take is that Phil was using the PGA as a tune up for the U.S. Open and winning it is just icing on the cake.

Take this fwiw, but my pro knows a few of the higher ups at Callaway so his take may be more than speculation.
 

Comfortably Lomb

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Phil has won 3 times at Torrey Pines but the last win was in the early 2000s before Tiger completely dominated the course for the rest of the decade. In any event, Phil knows the course and can play well on it. He has as good a chance there as anywhere.

Anyway, getting to 6 majors is big even missing the US Open. He’s now in the Faldo/Trevino tier.
 

E5 Yaz

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Phil has won 3 times at Torrey Pines but the last win was in the early 2000s before Tiger completely dominated the course for the rest of the decade. In any event, Phil knows the course and can play well on it. He has as good a chance there as anywhere.
Passing comment yesterday, I think on the Golf Channel, was that Phil hasn't played well on the course since they made significant changes to the layout. I don't know enough about this to offer more than something I heard. Perhaps someone else can speak to it.
 
Anyway, getting to 6 majors is big even missing the US Open. He’s now in the Faldo/Trevino tier.
In a historical context, it really is astonishing how important each major win is for you:

1 - means you've (finally?) won a major, and are into the big-time as a professional golfer
2 - means the first one probably wasn't a fluke, and you're eligible for the World Golf Hall of Fame regardless of how many other tournaments you've won
3 - now you're an elite golfer: other players with three include Jimmy Demaret, Julius Boros, Billy Casper, Larry Nelson, Hale Irwin, Nick Price, Vijay Singh, Padraig Harrington and Jordan Spieth
4 - now the real stratification begins and you're approaching legendary status: others with four include both Tom Morrises, Bobby Locke, Ray Floyd, Ernie Els, Rory McIlroy and Brooks Koepka
5 - only five players in this tier: James Braid, J.H. Taylor, Byron Nelson, Peter Thomson and Seve Ballesteros
6 - only three players: Lee Trevino, Nick Faldo and now Phil Mickelson
7 - this is the first God tier: Harry Vardon, Bobby Jones, Gene Sarazen, Sam Snead and Arnold Palmer
8 - only one man: Tom Watson
9 - only two men: Ben Hogan and Gary Player
----------------------------------
11 - Walter Hagen
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15 - Tiger Woods
----------------------------------
18 - Jack Nicklaus

For Phil to graduate from 5 to 6, especially at his age and in this manner, is a massive leap in his legacy; if he could somehow get to 7, with two wins coming after joining the Senior Tour, he moves into the Top 10 (seven majors is T7 all time), but even being T12 in majors with Faldo and Trevino puts him a step above some awesome golfers. And Phil actually tied Hagen for 8th yesterday in overall PGA Tour wins with 46; he now trails only Tiger/Snead (82 apiece), Nicklaus (73), Hogan (64), Palmer (62), Nelson (52) and Casper (51). Given the era in which he played, I think you can definitely now make the case that Phil is now one of the Top 10 golfers of all time - a case that I don't think you could have made before yesterday. I'm not entirely sure I'd put Phil in my own Top 10...but it's close enough now that I'd have to think long and hard about it.
 

cshea

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Torrey is long and narrow Kiawah is also long, but a tad wider in the fairways. The biggest difference, IMO, is the rough at Kiawah was playable. The USGA will grow the shit out of the rough at Torrey. Phil drove the ball beautifully this past week and his misses were only a hair off, and he was typically able to play out of the rough. He's trouble all week was essentially only water balls on 13 in 3 of 4 rounds. A hair off on a USGA is typically more penalizing. The USGA will also basically kill the greans to get them as fast as can be while Kiawah can't let them get too fast because of the wind potential. Theoretically, it's going to be harder to hold a green coming out of the rough at Torrey than it was at Kiawah. Torrey is also a seaside course with wind potential, but the USGA won't give a fuck and will get them blazing.

That said, we'll see. He's bought into the Bryson stuff (distance is more important than accuracy) and Bryson kinda proved that strategy can be successful on a US Open set up. He's still got the speed to bomb it out there with the best of them.

I thought it was interesting that for several months he kept saying he's close but focus was a problem. He looked totally locked in from his opening tee shot on Thursday, never changing his routine. Home game for him and the hype is going to be off the charts. Lot's of distractions to navigate through.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Torrey is long and narrow Kiawah is also long, but a tad wider in the fairways. The biggest difference, IMO, is the rough at Kiawah was playable. The USGA will grow the shit out of the rough at Torrey. Phil drove the ball beautifully this past week and his misses were only a hair off, and he was typically able to play out of the rough. He's trouble all week was essentially only water balls on 13 in 3 of 4 rounds. A hair off on a USGA is typically more penalizing. The USGA will also basically kill the greans to get them as fast as can be while Kiawah can't let them get too fast because of the wind potential. Theoretically, it's going to be harder to hold a green coming out of the rough at Torrey than it was at Kiawah. Torrey is also a seaside course with wind potential, but the USGA won't give a fuck and will get them blazing.

That said, we'll see. He's bought into the Bryson stuff (distance is more important than accuracy) and Bryson kinda proved that strategy can be successful on a US Open set up. He's still got the speed to bomb it out there with the best of them.

I thought it was interesting that for several months he kept saying he's close but focus was a problem. He looked totally locked in from his opening tee shot on Thursday, never changing his routine. Home game for him and the hype is going to be off the charts. Lot's of distractions to navigate through.
Yeah, but would anyone be surprised if the winner at Torrey is over par or right around even? Phil could give back 2 shots a round at Torrey due to conditions, and still be right in the mix for a US Open win if it's playing that tough. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a 10 shot difference between Phil's winning score at Kiawah and the winner at TP.
 

cshea

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Yeah, but would anyone be surprised if the winner at Torrey is over par or right around even? Phil could give back 2 shots a round at Torrey due to conditions, and still be right in the mix for a US Open win if it's playing that tough. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a 10 shot difference between Phil's winning score at Kiawah and the winner at TP.
Yeah, Torrey will likely play much more difficult than Kiawah. It's going to be hard for anyone, who knows. Historically, Phil's problem has typically been with the driver which could be more costly at a place like Torrey (or any US Open venue) than Kiawah is what I was getting at. But again, he's all in on distance and Bryson's win at Winged Foot seems to show it's possible to win a US Open without driving accuracy as long as you hit it far enough. And at 50, Phil still hits it far enough. I think my "it's over" moment was on 16 yesterday when Brooks piped one 360 yards and Phil stepped up and knocked it right past him.

For Phil, we're just going to have to see if this is the start of a run or if it was one magical week where everything went right. He insisted for moths he was getting close, but his stats never really backed that up. It was hard to really believe him. Entering the week he was 179th on tour in strokes gained tee to green heading into the PGA. So he wasn't striking the ball very well. He's 118th in SG putting. There was literally zero evidence he could compete on tour anymore, let along on the major stage. And then he wins. Absolutely stunning. I've written him off 5-6 times over the past few years, as recently as Thursday in this very thread when I called his group the "old guys with no chance" grouping. Nothing will surprise me anymore with Phil.
 

cshea

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Well now I want to see the two of them paired up in the last round of a major.
The Brooks/Bryson thing has gone on for a few years but they have not been paired together. It's a luck of the draw on the weekend, but it's almost to the point where I wonder if someone has asked the Tour/Majors to keep them apart when possible. It's very unusual for 2 stars as big as them to not have been together on a Thursday/Friday at any point over at least 2.5 years. The Tour usually creates "super groups" of the stars on Thursday/Friday for their streaming product and TV purposes.

I believe this started, or at least became public, at the 2019 Northern Trust. That's when the video of Bryson taking like 5 minutes to line up at 8 foot putt with a disgusted, eye-rolling JT in the background when viral and lit the golf world on fire for slow play. Brooks has always been one to call out slow play and so he was one of the many players/analysts/fans that jumped on Bryson for slow play. I can't remember exactly what Brooks said, but I'm sure it wasn't the most diplomatic approach. Apparently the next day, Bryson confronted Brooks on the range. IIRC, reports were it was pretty heated but I think Bryson said "we're good" afterwards when asked about it.

Then there was some stupid internet stuff early in the pandemic. When Bryson was doing his bulk up and posting work out videos, one day he posted a picture of his abs or something. Brooks fired back with a photo of his 4 major trophies and said "2 short of 6-pack."

I like Brooks and can't stand Bryson but I get the impression Brooks is a bit of a loner out there, kind of like Reed (minus the cheating, of course). He just sort of goes about his business and does/says whatever he wants because he's got the resume to do so.
 

Average Reds

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Does this greatly increase the likelihood of the (heavily-backed-by-Phil) Premier/Super Golf League coming into existence?
IMO, it would be a titanic miscalculation on Phil's part. But I think the answer is "probably."

I generally like and root for Louis Oosthuizen, but that double-drop he took on Saturday was so scummy, there's no way karma could allow him to win yesterday. (Especially given how Phil had very nobly not given himself the benefit of any doubt off of that same tee.)
I know it was discussed at the time, but the only reason that entire clusterf*ck came about is that Phil was absolutely emphatic that Oosthuizen's ball re-entered the hazard well down the course while his own tee shot never left the hazard in the first place.

I don't think nobility had anything to do with it - my guess is that they both made an honest mistake, because while Oosthuizen's ball did cross land, it didn't look like it ever left the hazard in the first place because of how far away from the water the lines were drawn. (Regardless, once Phil was so emphatic in his judgement, Oosthuizen was entitled to take the drop up the course.)

That said, insisting that he must have crossed by that specific sprinkler head so he could then take relief and move all the way into the fairway was incredibly scummy.

I guess Brooks & Bryson won’t be paired together in the Ryder Cup.

View: https://twitter.com/itismarkharris/status/1397009229433737220?s=21
Much respect to Brooks.
 

TFP

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Apparently the next day, Bryson confronted Brooks on the range.
Actually - Bryson confronted Brooks is caddy and said "If your guy has anything to say he can say it to my face", so Brooks walked over and did exactly that.

I don't think it's legitimate hate. It's annoyance/eye rolling with a bit of drama thrown in for flair. However I love every second of it, makes things more interesting.
 

Comfortably Lomb

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Actually - Bryson confronted Brooks is caddy and said "If your guy has anything to say he can say it to my face", so Brooks walked over and did exactly that.

I don't think it's legitimate hate. It's annoyance/eye rolling with a bit of drama thrown in for flair. However I love every second of it, makes things more interesting.
I don't think Brooks and Bryson are going to be hanging out anytime soon. Brooks's view of Bryson strikes me like the colleague you don't think about unless they're around but when they are you can't stand them.
 

CantKeepmedown

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I couldn't make it out, but did Bryson say something under his breath as he passed? Or maybe he could have just been talking to his caddy, who was right behind him.
A lot of comments on twitter are hearing him say "try hitting it on the right line" after Koepka said he was finding it hard to read the greens.
 

cshea

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Quality troll by Bryson if that's indeed what he said. Didn't know he had that in him.

Edit: Watched it a bunch. I think Bryson says "just start it on line, Broosky" Kudos to Bryson.
 
That said, insisting that he must have crossed by that specific sprinkler head so he could then take relief and move all the way into the fairway was incredibly scummy.
It's specifically the sprinkler head aspect of the drop that I'm taking objection to. As you say, Phil told Louis it had crossed land up ahead. But to pick that spot was totally uncool. Phil gave the field the benefit of the doubt with regard to his tee shot; Louis gave himself the benefit of all doubt with that dropping point. (Just take the relief into the first cut and don't try everyone's patience, will ya?)
 

cshea

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FWIW, the hazard line was close to being within 2 club lengths of the fairway. At worst he was going to be in the first cut not the rough. If 2 club lengths didn't get him to the fairway, a small bounce left on the drop may have gotten him there anyways. It's a bad look, but I didn't think it was quite as egregious after a 2nd viewing.
 

snowmanny

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Quality troll by Bryson if that's indeed what he said. Didn't know he had that in him.

Edit: Watched it a bunch. I think Bryson says "just start it on line, Broosky" Kudos to Bryson.
Not sure Bryson gets credit for mumbling something obnoxious to Brooks under his breath while Koepka is otherwise occupied getting interviewed..,and then quickly walking away...and then when Koepka gets pissed Bryson makes a big deal about how if he had a problem he should say it to his face.

Um you didn’t.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I fucking hate Bryson, and while I'm not really a fan of Brooks, I'd love to have seen him lay his ass out on national television. As it was, I thought Brooks' response about it being bullshit was pretty great. Fuck Bryson and his stupid slow playing ass. Would have been better if Brooks had said something like "If you don't like fire ants, don't fucking hit your ball there" or "Maybe next time I miss a line, I'll smash my putter into the green, did you write a check to that course in Mexico City yet, you fucking roid raging asshole."
 

voidfunkt

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I love both of them, and the Brooks response is fantastic. They are very very different personalities and I can totally see why Brooks cannot stand Bryson.
 

TFP

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It's great - some awesome stories including how Phil got hooked up with his current coach.
 

Average Reds

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FWIW, the hazard line was close to being within 2 club lengths of the fairway. At worst he was going to be in the first cut not the rough. If 2 club lengths didn't get him to the fairway, a small bounce left on the drop may have gotten him there anyways. It's a bad look, but I didn't think it was quite as egregious after a 2nd viewing.
In isolation, I agree. The problem is that, if we are talking about the propriety of the entire episode, I can't separate this fact - the hazard line being so close to the fairway - from the question of how he got there in the first place.

On the tee, Phil and Oosthuizen both agreed that his ball crossed land up by the fairway. As we have all noted, "land" is not where the hazard was marked. It was marked far away from the water. And the replays made it clear (at least to me) that the ball never came close to leaving and re-entering the hazard, which means that Louis needs to hit from the tee like Phil did.

While he may not have known this on the tee, he damn sure did when he got to the spot he was claiming his ball crossed the hazard. And he decided to handle this inconvenient fact by choosing the precise point of entry that allowed him to drop at a point where he could claim that a sprinkler head was in his stance, which gave him an additional 1.5 club lengths, putting him in the fairway. (Because first he has to take full relief and then he gets a club length.)

To summarize, in much the same way that "not guilty" doesn't mean "innocent," the fact that his actions are technically defensible does not mean in any way that they are proper or ethical. He daisy-chained a series of questionable decisions to get himself into the fairway. This may not make him Patrick Reed, but it absolutely makes him Colin Montgomerie. (Which is to say - a fucking cheater caught on video.)