2022-2023 General Celtics thread

slamminsammya

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This team is a machine. Down 9 second quarter in a SEGABABA against a good team on the road and they just unleash hell in the 3rd and it never really gets close again. No Horford, Brogdon, Timelord. They don't skip a beat.
 

Spelunker

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The good guys kept the turnovers to 11, which is why we were able to squeak this one out imo. Kudos to the guy who wore Jaylen Brown's #7 jersey and had eight assists and zero turnovers tonight.

Joe kept the rotation tight (as did Nurse), and everyone played pretty well. Big kudos to CJM for his effective use of Blake (and Blake for the mad hustle points).

Another classic Tatum game where he starts unbelievably slow and ends up with an efficient 30 and a bunch of other great work.

Good clock punch game.
I'm actually surprised that JB had no turnovers: there was one play where he forced a drive into three defenders who immediately stripped him. I guess they called that a shot (I don't think the ball ever got over his shoulders), but it's effectively the same thing.

Otherwise, he kept that kind of play to a minimum and it was great to see.
 

Jimbodandy

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I'm actually surprised that JB had no turnovers: there was one play where he forced a drive into three defenders who immediately stripped him. I guess they called that a shot (I don't think the ball ever got over his shoulders), but it's effectively the same thing.

Otherwise, he kept that kind of play to a minimum and it was great to see.
It was great to see especially against that team, which is super handsy like Miami and extremely long. Even Tatum's 4 TOs wasn't bad, considering how much he had the ball in his hands. 11 team TOs against that team on a B2B was disciplined AF.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Yeah, the original claim was he only played in that series with Vincent. That was true after game 4 but not for the whole series. I don't understand why your takes on here are always so stubborn. See for example the claim that it was crazy to think JB's comments on the Kyrie situation were possibly his actual feelings and not just speaking as a union rep. Or the rabbit hole this board went down with your vaccine misinformation.
Was that the same rabbit hole that caused the FDA to add warnings of heart inflammation to the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines? I guess maybe there was something to see, right?
 

Deathofthebambino

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Was that the same rabbit hole that caused the FDA to add warnings of heart inflammation to the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines? I guess maybe there was something to see, right?
Like this:

cardiovascular thrombotic events, myocardial infarction, and stroke, which can be fatal. Patients with cardiovascular disease or risk factors for cardiovascular disease may be at greater risk




Oh, my mistake, that's actually the warning for Ibuprofen. The FDA putting warning labels on things is what they do. https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/nsaids-how-dangerous-are-they-for-your-heart-2019010715677

But when you have a miniscule chance of actually getting this side effect, it's misinformation to push it as a reason to not get vaxxed or tell others they shouldn't (not to mention the myriad other reasons that lead to viruses mutating if they aren't eradicated).

7.5 million people studied, and a total of 190 people developed myocarditis. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02740-y

To put this in perspective, Massachusetts has about 7 million people. You're about 2x's more likely to die in a car accident in MA than you are to develop heart inflammation from the vaccine.

Back to our regularly scheduled Celtics talk.
 

nighthob

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You understand that NSAIDs (aside from aspirin) causing heart troubles is actually a thing, right? (See Ketoprofen)

Signed Guy that Got A-Fib from Celebrex After His Allergist Assured Him It Was a Much Better Option than Aspirin Desensitization.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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This team is a machine. Down 9 second quarter in a SEGABABA against a good team on the road and they just unleash hell in the 3rd and it never really gets close again. No Horford, Brogdon, Timelord. They don't skip a beat.
The unusual thing about this team thus far is that when they turn it on, they are able to snuff out opposing teams runs almost at will. It feels like when they lock in, its a wrap. Its pretty remarkable.
 

riboflav

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The unusual thing about this team thus far is that when they turn it on, they are able to snuff out opposing teams runs almost at will. It feels like when they lock in, its a wrap. Its pretty remarkable.
Agree. Said this in the game thread. They’re an avalanche team against the majority of the NBA. Lock in for like 7 minutes and they’re good to go… assuming they’ve kept the game within reason to that point.The avalanche can happen right away like from the jump or later in the third quarter or whatever. But on most nights it’s coming. Some say they’re a wagon whatever that means but yeah they are.
 

nighthob

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The unusual thing about this team thus far is that when they turn it on, they are able to snuff out opposing teams runs almost at will. It feels like when they lock in, its a wrap. Its pretty remarkable.
About the only thing that slows them down is reducing the game to a basketbrawl contest. Aside from that they're just a beautiful show.
 

Devizier

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Was that the same rabbit hole that caused the FDA to add warnings of heart inflammation to the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines? I guess maybe there was something to see, right?
If you want to push an antivax story there is a place you can try and it’s not here
 
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Eddie Jurak

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A case could be made that last night's win against Toronto was the best win of the season, because they spent the first half of the game continuing the offensive struggles that they had in the Miami loss and Brooklyn game, but they managed to turn things around after halftime.

I worried about this Toronto game because I think Toronto even more than Miami and Brooklyn is the type of team that can give the Celtics fits: young, long, athletic, shot blocking. And they did for the first half. The Celtics having to play without Brogdon (non COVID illness) and Horford (the old Hellenic flu lower back stiffness) didn't help.

At the half, the Celtics were down by 6, although they had trailed by even more before closing in a bit at the end. To some degree they were up to their usual tricks for how to look bad - starting with 9 turnovers and not shooting well from three. Tatum and Smart combined for 5 of the 9 turnovers, and the only Celtics who shot 50% or better from the floor were Blake (4 for 5), Kornet (2 for 3), and White (1 for 2). Sam Huaser had a terrific drive of a closeout followed by upfake and reverse layup, but he shot only 1 of 4 from three. ( But more on him later). Tatum led the Celtics with 11 points on 4 of 9 shooting at the half.

The third quarter, sometimes a bad quarter for this iteration of the Celtics going back to last year, is where the Celtics turned the game around. They outscored Toronto 35-18, dominating at both ends of the floor, led at both ends by Jayson Tatum and Marcus Smart. Tayum dropped 17 in the quarter, nearly outscoring the Raptors by himself, on 6-9 shooting, along with 5 rebounds and a block. Marcus Smart added 8 points on 3-4 shooting, plus 4 assists and a steal. One play was emblematic of the quarter: Marcus, defending Van Vleet up high in the Celtics' end, picks his pocket, knocking the ball loose and diving to recover it. On the floor, Marcus looks around while avoiding being tied up and passes ahead to Tatum running the floor for an easy basket.

The 4th quarter was not the best for the Celtics, as Toronto narrowed a 12 point lead to 4 in the final 3.5 minutes, led by 8 points from Brown and 6 from Kornet early in the quarter. The Celtics are figuring out how to use guys who don't fly like Rob on the pick and roll, with both Kornet and Blake benefitting in this one. I kind of blame the slowdown at the end on the Celtics efforts to run out the clock taking them out of the offense the would otherwise run.

It needs to be said, though, that the "run down the clock by not touching the inbounded ball" strategy worked the best it ever has in this one. Marcus ran a full 20 seconds off the clock. At first, with the "blocker" in front of Smart, Toronto couldn't figure out how to get to Marcus. Then it became downright comical as a Toronto player finally began on Marcus, just standing there with the ball on the floor in front of him, Marcus kept "freezing"him by faking that he was going to pick upm the ball. After 20 had been run off since the last Toronto basket, he finally picked it up but I think he might have been able to push it and go longer. The Celtics hit a three at the other end.
View: https://twitter.com/ChrisForsberg_/status/1599955507044700160?s=20&t=15Q54wyh15KFveyibrsa-A

Chris Forsberg: 20 seconds sapped on the “slow your roll” play and then a 3-pointer. Celtics just messing with teams.

Haven't mentioned Brown much today, but his play in the first half held them in it and he also produced in the 4th. For the game he scored 22 points, 8 rebounds, and 8 assists. And some of those assists were very nice looks to cutters or on the pick and roll. Not the best shooting night for him 9-22, 1-6 from three, but he did everything else.

Tatum ended with 31 points and 12 rebounds, offseting his 4 turnovers. Smart had 18 points, 7 assists, and 2 steals and with Tatum was the key to the third quarter breakout. Quiet game from White (9 points), but he did manage 4 reounds and 5 assists. Also quieter game from Grant, with 7 points and 4 rebounds.

Some words about three guys: Hauser, Blake!, and Kornet.

Hauser's shot was off tonight, he was 1 for 4 from three and only scored 5 points in 16 minutes. I think he is in a legit shoting slump right now. But he did have 3 rebounds and an assist. And he was good on defense. Siakam decided that he could hunt Hauser and he tried, but didn;t come away with much of anything. He led the Raptors with 29 points, but very little if any of that came from hunting Hauser. It probably got the Raptors out of their offense, too.

In 15 minutes, Kornet scored 11 points (5 for 7 shooting) and added 7 rebounds and a block. He scored on putbacks and on lobs/cuts. Missed the only three he attempted. The Celtics bench unit with Brown expanded the lead at the start of the fourth, and his offense was a key part of that.

Finally, Blake had by far his best game as a Celtic. He has the strangest job in the whole NBA. He basically doesn't play, but when Al rests on a back to back, he starts. Today he went 32 minutes, his season high, scoring 13 points (season high), 8 rebounds (season high), 2 assists (tied for season high), a steal, and making hustle plays all over the floor. He also drove a closeout and dunked.
View: https://twitter.com/RaininJsBot/status/1599961402550104064?s=20&t=B5vhKpsz7kX-347nMVQ_Fg
 

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The unusual thing about this team thus far is that when they turn it on, they are able to snuff out opposing teams runs almost at will. It feels like when they lock in, its a wrap. Its pretty remarkable.
As I’ve mentioned, I’ve watched the last two games on the opponents’ feeds and the announcers of both the Nets and the Raptors are acutely aware of this, as you have stated it. Like, they don’t state it explicitly, but it’s implicit in their overall take as you can tell they are just waiting for it to happen so that they can comment on it in real time as it happens. It’s quite fascinating; as a fan, I’m nervous and hope they manage it, whereas they sound like engineers explaining how the structural integrity of a building works.

It’s probably worth noting that many here speculated that the team would be able to do exactly this, and that it could be a good thing both for saving energy and also to train them to be mentally tough and resilient about tough situations, yet now that it’s here, it’s quite harrowing! :D
 

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A case could be made that last night's win against Toronto was the best win of the season,
Ok, Scal.

In regards to basketball, I wonder: Is Hauser in a slump, or is he a guy who shoots much better when he is wide-wide open, and he’s been a little less so lately, due to on the one hand, defenses that have been effective, but perhaps more so because the Celtics have frequently had key players out of late? Obviously, I understand that full team cannot be counted on as the season goes on, but that said, I am definitely looking forward to seeing if the offense returns to its consistent flow the next time they have all hands on deck—I think we’ll learn a lot then.

Although I should refine that last part, since, as the Toronto color guy kept saying, they could be even better when Robin Williams returns!
 
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lexrageorge

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Finally, Blake had by far his best game as a Celtic. He has the strangest job in the whole NBA. He basically doesn't play, but when Al rests on a back to back, he starts. Today he went 32 minutes, his season high, scoring 13 points (season high), 8 rebounds (season high), 2 assists (tied for season high), a steal, and making hustle plays all over the floor. He also drove a closeout and dunked.
View: https://twitter.com/RaininJsBot/status/1599961402550104064?s=20&t=B5vhKpsz7kX-347nMVQ_Fg
First, always appreciate your game summaries. I was switching between the Bruins and Celtics last night, with most of the time on the B's, so only caught glimpses, including that hilarious Smart "walk up" play you linked.

Anyway, on that Griffin play, I will throw a quarter of Blake's Tommy Point to Tatum. That was a great pass, one we've seen him throw to Brown or Horford or Grant. But this time he threw it to Blake. Really says something when the team's unquestioned leader and league MVP candidate realizes that he's drawn such a crowd that the give to a wide open Blake in the corner is more likely to lead to basket.

Brown creates baskets, Marcus Smart creates ruckus everywhere, but Tatum creates real problems for the opposition.
 

benhogan

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Just digging a hair deeper into the game last night (+ a couple of mea culpa's)

Blake's Walton rejuvenation tour has been a pleasant surprise. He was pretty confused defensively during the last few possessions of the game. PLUS he didn't add a lot when Toronto turned up the ball pressure while Boston burned the clock. At the time I felt White could have been used situationally at the end of the game. BUT Blake! did come up huge with a very timely tip-in. It clinched the game. Blake's veteran presence, past gravitas, & situational starting has been a nice bonus for this team. Additional kudos to PBS for his clever roster work.

ALSO with Brogdon out, PP still gets the DNP-CD. Figured PP would find a few loose minutes. I was a little shocked by the zero. While Payton could probably guard FVV, clearly CJM was concerned with the rest of the Raptors lineup hunting him. HRB should probably receive some credit for reading the Mazzulla tea leaves correctly with PP's lack of use.
 

Reverend

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First, always appreciate your game summaries. I was switching between the Bruins and Celtics last night, with most of the time on the B's, so only caught glimpses, including that hilarious Smart "walk up" play you linked.

Anyway, on that Griffin play, I will throw a quarter of Blake's Tommy Point to Tatum. That was a great pass, one we've seen him throw to Brown or Horford or Grant. But this time he threw it to Blake. Really says something when the team's unquestioned leader and league MVP candidate realizes that he's drawn such a crowd that the give to a wide open Blake in the corner is more likely to lead to basket.

Brown creates baskets, Marcus Smart creates ruckus everywhere, but Tatum creates real problems for the opposition.
I’m pretty sure that Tatum has been really working on the backwards / behind the back pass technique lately. Like, he sometimes even throws the ball to the ref with it now (as he did last night). In fact, some of the guys may be playing with it together; Smart seems to be doing that backwards over the shoulder pass of his more too, as he did last night, like this one from last Spring:

View: https://twitter.com/thescore/status/1510049145486200834
 

Deathofthebambino

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You understand that NSAIDs (aside from aspirin) causing heart troubles is actually a thing, right? (See Ketoprofen)

Signed Guy that Got A-Fib from Celebrex After His Allergist Assured Him It Was a Much Better Option than Aspirin Desensitization.
Of course, I understand it's a thing. A very rare thing, but a thing nonetheless. Just like myocarditis is a very rare side effect from the vaccine.

However, I don't see a massive push by anti-vaxxers in the public realm telling people not to take Advil or Motrin.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I would just like to point out Jaylen's defense last night. He did almost everything right, from start to finish in that game.

If he, as what many would consider the weak link on the defense right now, can level up on that end of the floor, and they can still score 115-120 a night against the best defenses in the league. Woo boy...
 

slamminsammya

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I would just like to point out Jaylen's defense last night. He did almost everything right, from start to finish in that game.

If he, as what many would consider the weak link on the defense right now, can level up on that end of the floor, and they can still score 115-120 a night against the best defenses in the league. Woo boy...
Agreed. He did have one of his vintage "fall asleep and allow a backdoor pass for a layup" plays but we take the overall package 10 days out of 10.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I would just like to point out Jaylen's defense last night. He did almost everything right, from start to finish in that game.

If he, as what many would consider the weak link on the defense right now, can level up on that end of the floor, and they can still score 115-120 a night against the best defenses in the league. Woo boy...
Agreed. He did have one of his vintage "fall asleep and allow a backdoor pass for a layup" plays but we take the overall package 10 days out of 10.
In a blink of an eye we no longer have two of the best “young” players in the league…..but a Top-5 and a Top 10-15 overall player entering the primes of their careers. Scary stuff for the league.

As David Byrne once sang……
“And you may ask yourself, "Well, how did I get here?

Oh how close were we to having a Fultz/Dunn backcourt?
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Jaylen has become a bullerina (TM) in the paint. So fast, so strong, and now he has developed the savvy needed to basically ALWAYS find the blue sky to get a clean shot off. And it was never a fait accompli that he would develop that savvy. Just a great offensive package.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I’ve always rooted against Jackson after that incident. Worked out for us though!
I don’t recall the specifics but iirc I believed at the time that Ainge knew JJ would not work out for them and made the public display as gamesmanship toward the other GMs to show that he was really interested. There was something like that happening but I can barely remember last week much less that draft.
 

bakahump

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It is interesting how JB and JT compliment each other.
JB a Fast break marvel who can also drive to the paint in the halfcourt while also with suitable outside shooting.
JT a Half court monster who can also get incredibly tough half court buckets when need be.
(in both cases they have overlap. JT can drive the paint and score on the break. JB can get half court buckets......its just that their strengths compliment each other so well).
I mean if you think about it putting them together would give you basically the ultimate player.
 

Saints Rest

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It is interesting how JB and JT compliment each other.
JB a Fast break marvel who can also drive to the paint in the halfcourt while also with suitable outside shooting.
JT a Half court monster who can also get incredibly tough half court buckets when need be.
(in both cases they have overlap. JT can drive the paint and score on the break. JB can get half court buckets......its just that their strengths compliment each other so well).
I mean if you think about it putting them together would give you basically the ultimate player.
I would add that JB tends to be electric in the 1Q when JT tends to struggle.
 

bakahump

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Yes very fair. While JB tends to "tire" (*Shrug) in the 4th when JT is usually heating up.
 

RorschachsMask

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I would add that JB tends to be electric in the 1Q when JT tends to struggle.
I don’t think that’s really the case, it’s a weird assumption that has caught on. Maybe because Jaylen has had a few 20 point firsts, it sticks.

Tatum 1Q this season, 8 points on a 64% TS.
Last year, 6 points on a 58% TS

Jaylen 1Q this year 8 points on a 63% TS
Last year, 7 points on a 64% TS
 

Euclis20

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I would add that JB tends to be electric in the 1Q when JT tends to struggle.
It's funny because that's been my impression as well, but Tatum averages 8.0 points on 48.8% shooting (in 8.4 minutes) in the 1st quarter compared to Brown who averages 7.7 points on 51.2% shooting (in 9.7 minutes). Really no difference between the two in 1st quarter performance.

*edit - Too slow, but 100% agreed with RM above.
 

nighthob

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Remember the pre-draft 11th hour hustle of Ainge trying to get a Josh Jackson workout together? What could have been!
Jackson was clearly plan B in the unlikely course that the Lackers came to their senses and drafted Tatum. So thank Magic for thinking that a pair of Balls were better than a Duke.
 

Jimbodandy

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Ok, Scal.

In regards to basketball, I wonder: Is Hauser in a slump, or is he a guy who shoots much better when he is wide-wide open, and he’s been a little less so lately, due to on the one hand, defenses that have been effective, but perhaps more so because the Celtics have frequently had key players out of late? Obviously, I understand that full team cannot be counted on as the season goes on, but that said, I am definitely looking forward to seeing if the offense returns to its consistent flow the next time they have all hands on deck—I think we’ll learn a lot then.

Although I should refine that last part, since, as the Toronto color guy kept saying, they could be even better when Robin Williams returns!
I think that Hauser is generally getting slightly worse looks as the offense bogged down lately. I'm not sure if it's his openness or whether it's a flow thing, but I suspect the latter. When the offense is flowing, everyone is getting looks in rhythm. There has been less of that lately. Also book is out that Hauser can shoot, so he's getting picked up within 5 feet of the line. Before he was drifting around with less attention.
 

dhellers

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I think that Hauser is generally getting slightly worse looks as the offense bogged down lately. I'm not sure if it's his openness or whether it's a flow thing, but I suspect the latter. When the offense is flowing, everyone is getting looks in rhythm. There has been less of that lately. Also book is out that Hauser can shoot, so he's getting picked up within 5 feet of the line. Before he was drifting around with less attention.
I have to wonder if guys like Hauser, who are lights out when getting limited action, lose some of their abilities when subject to inceased playing time.
All those bangs and bruises, and the wear and tear of working on D, might impact muscle memory & execution just enough to reduce shooting success.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I have to wonder if guys like Hauser, who are lights out when getting limited action, lose some of their abilities when subject to inceased playing time.
All those bangs and bruises, and the wear and tear of working on D, might impact muscle memory & execution just enough to reduce shooting success.
I think this is part of it too. He's been working his ass off on D, probably moreso than he's ever had to in his entire life, and IMO, doing a pretty damn good job of it. As a result, he may not have the stamina to run around and get the open looks he's used to. It could also just be a standard cold streak that all shooters go through (3/12 over his last 4 games).

He's still over 46% from 3 on the season. May all of the Celtics have cold streaks like his...
 

HomeRunBaker

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I have to wonder if guys like Hauser, who are lights out when getting limited action, lose some of their abilities when subject to inceased playing time.
All those bangs and bruises, and the wear and tear of working on D, might impact muscle memory & execution just enough to reduce shooting success.
Yes for sure but you wouldn’t see these effects until a guy is consistently in the 30’s or mid-30’s every night to where it could affect his legs which is critical for shooters. Being that we are in early December and Hauser is at 16 mpg I’d associate it to 3 things….

1. His success has gotten teams attention when he’s on the floor and he’s not difficult to gameplan against aside from being aware where he is.

2. Standard regression. He was never going to shoot 56% from 3 for the year.

3. Small sample. Also tiny sample that we are talking about here.
 

DavidTai

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This feels more like a case of small sample sizes skewing perception - like, Hauser went 1 for 4. If one more went in, it'd jump from 25 percent to 50 percent.
 

Euclis20

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He's 3-12 over his last 4 games, and just as important his +/- over that stretch (when his team was 3-1) was -18 in just over 50 minutes played. It's a very minor cold stretch but it is indeed a cold stretch.
 

NomarsFool

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It is interesting how JB and JT compliment each other.
JB a Fast break marvel who can also drive to the paint in the halfcourt while also with suitable outside shooting.
JT a Half court monster who can also get incredibly tough half court buckets when need be.
(in both cases they have overlap. JT can drive the paint and score on the break. JB can get half court buckets......its just that their strengths compliment each other so well).
I mean if you think about it putting them together would give you basically the ultimate player.
Everyone knows the Jays can't play together. I heard it on the radio.

/s
 

Jimbodandy

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Yes for sure but you wouldn’t see these effects until a guy is consistently in the 30’s or mid-30’s every night to where it could affect his legs which is critical for shooters. Being that we are in early December and Hauser is at 16 mpg I’d associate it to 3 things….

1. His success has gotten teams attention when he’s on the floor and he’s not difficult to gameplan against aside from being aware where he is.

2. Standard regression. He was never going to shoot 56% from 3 for the year.

3. Small sample. Also tiny sample that we are talking about here.
Yeah this is most of it, if not all. He really isn't forcing or taking wildly contested shots in general. He had one last night that was absolute cake that rimmed out at the end of a quarter. That's just regression. There's something to #1 though. Folks are wisely paying more attention to him.