2022-2023 General Celtics thread

[Ed Hillel]

You understand that the dirty play led to an actual injury, yes? Apparently not.

Obviously. And then maybe you’re forgetting the entire next season when the Kawhi wouldn’t get back on the court? He was supposed to be ready for the start of the season and ended up playing nine total games the entire year. Pop would come out and tell the media he was ready to go and then he wouldn’t play. After the 9 games, in which he played well and seemed normal, he just stopped coming back, despite no apparent reinjury. Then he got traded. It was kind of a big deal when it happened.

 

[the moops]

I also have to say, I love that, after all the takes in 2019 about how Brooklyn had leapfrogged the Celtics, the Nets got one 2nd round appearance and now are back to exactly where they started before KD and Kyrie came: a solid core of young roleplayers and a normal amount of picks going forward.

(Although now they don't control the picks, so can't tank)

I think they have far more than a normal amount of picks going forward

2023 - PHI 1st, PHO 1st
2024 - no pick
2025 - swap with OKC or HOU 1st, PHO 1st
2026 - no pick
2027 - PHI 1st, PHO 1st, swap with HOU
2028 - swap with PHO
2029 - their own 1st, DAL 1st, PHO 1st

 

[Devizier]

Nets salvaged that era pretty nicely; certainly better than how they emerged from Billy King’s tenure (never mind what teams like the Wolves have been up to).

 

[Saints Rest]

Amid all this speculation about what trades, if any, the C's might make, they have a big game tonite at the Garden. It'll be a great opportunity to see how the current frontcourt matches up with Embiid.

You mean Kornet?

Clearly you both overlooked Pritchard.

 

[Tudor Fever]

This franchise has the worst injury luck

Fortunately none of their current injuries should still be a factor come playoff time, except maybe TL’s Sword of Damocles left knee.

 

[jezza1918]

The Sixers were going all-out to double him often above the 3-point line, and also to show lots of bodies in the lane. It wasn't always pretty, but he figured out how to make a lot of the plays he had to, which Embiid wasn't able to do as often against similarly extreme attention, and that was the difference.

Buddy who is a huge sixers fan just texted me, "worst/most underwhelming 28 point game by Embiid in NBA history." some hyperbole due to frustration Im sure, but that message still tracks with your post.

 

[nighthob]

Obviously. And then maybe you’re forgetting the entire next season when the Kawhi wouldn’t get back on the court? He was supposed to be ready for the start of the season and ended up playing nine total games the entire year. Pop would come out and tell the media he was ready to go and then he wouldn’t play. After the 9 games, in which he played well and seemed normal, he just stopped coming back, despite no apparent reinjury. Then he got traded. It was kind of a big deal when it happened.

He, literally, has the same injury that ended Cam Neely’s career. Literally. The quad muscle calcified as a result of the hit. San Antonio butchered their relationship with Leonard when they had their team doctors soft-soap the extent of the problem. When Leonard got an outside medical consult that ended any chance the Spurs had of keeping him long term. You lie to your player about the seriousness of a chronic injury and you deserve every bad thing that happens to you.

 

[nighthob]

I also have to say, I love that, after all the takes in 2019 about how Brooklyn had leapfrogged the Celtics, the Nets got one 2nd round appearance and now are back to exactly where they started before KD and Kyrie came: a solid core of young roleplayers and a normal amount of picks going forward.

(Although now they don't control the picks, so can't tank)

They can tank this season as Houston only has a pick swap, so it benefits them to be as bad as possible now. It’s a pity that Boston couldn’t have found a way in there to peach Cam Johnson in exchange for enough firsts to satisfy the Nets. Because he’s just what the doctor ordered for this team.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I also have to say, I love that, after all the takes in 2019 about how Brooklyn had leapfrogged the Celtics, the Nets got one 2nd round appearance and now are back to exactly where they started before KD and Kyrie came: a solid core of young roleplayers and a normal amount of picks going forward.

(Although now they don't control the picks, so can't tank)

In fairness, the injuries to Harden/Kyrie likely cost them a title a couple years ago. They had some bad luck mixed in there. Not that I'm upset about it...

 

[lovegtm]

They can tank this season as Houston only has a pick swap, so it benefits them to be as bad as possible now. It’s a pity that Boston couldn’t have found a way in there to peach Cam Johnson in exchange for enough firsts to satisfy the Nets. Because he’s just what the doctor ordered for this team.

Celtics could still bring him in in a 1-for-1 trade, right? His salary is only about $5M.

 

[benhogan]

I also have to say, I love that, after all the takes in 2019 about how Brooklyn had leapfrogged the Celtics, the Nets got one 2nd round appearance and now are back to exactly where they started before KD and Kyrie came: a solid core of young roleplayers and a normal amount of picks going forward.

(Although now they don't control the picks, so can't tank)

Oh yea, my favorite hot take was the Celtics were headed for "purgatory" & "it would be 3-5yrs before contending again" if they lost Kyrie

 

[Euclis20]

I think they have far more than a normal amount of picks going forward

2023 - PHI 1st, PHO 1st
2024 - no pick
2025 - swap with OKC or HOU 1st, PHO 1st
2026 - no pick
2027 - PHI 1st, PHO 1st, swap with HOU
2028 - swap with PHO
2029 - their own 1st, DAL 1st, PHO 1st

That's 9 picks in 7 years which is a little more than normal, but I wouldn't call most of these high value picks - The philly and Phoenix picks are going to be in the 20s this year, and that'll likely be the case for the 2025 phoenix pick and the 2027 philly pick (unless Booker or Embiid leave their teams). They did a good job replacing the pics they sent off for Harden, but I think they'd be in better shape if they just owned their own picks for most of the next 5-6 years.

 

[Euclis20]

I also have to say, I love that, after all the takes in 2019 about how Brooklyn had leapfrogged the Celtics, the Nets got one 2nd round appearance and now are back to exactly where they started before KD and Kyrie came: a solid core of young roleplayers and a normal amount of picks going forward.

(Although now they don't control the picks, so can't tank)

I've got a Nets friend who really enjoyed this a couple of years ago ("looks like the Nets actually won that trade, hardy har har"), so this is a pretty fun week. Back to the swamp with you.

 

[lovegtm]

That's 9 picks in 7 years which is a little more than normal, but I wouldn't call most of these high value picks - The philly and Phoenix picks are going to be in the 20s this year, and that'll likely be the case for the 2025 phoenix pick and the 2027 philly pick (unless Booker or Embiid leave their teams). They did a good job replacing the pics they sent off for Harden, but I think they'd be in better shape if they just owned their own picks for most of the next 5-6 years.

I didn't realize they had the Phoenix 2028 swap as well, which swings this hard for me. They get unprotected from Phoenix in 2027-29, when Durant and CP3 will be aged out, with only Booker and maybe Ayton left, and Phoenix having no way to restock significantly in between.

I like Booker, but I don't see him as a guy like Tatum or Luka whom you can surround with whatever and be a playoff team. Those picks would have some serious lottery equity.

Heck, any Durant/CP3 injuries and 2025 could get spicy. Just because LeBron is immortal doesn't mean every old guy is suddenly an awesome bet.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I didn't realize they had the Phoenix 2028 swap as well, which swings this hard for me. They get unprotected from Phoenix in 2027-29, when Durant and CP3 will be aged out, with only Booker and maybe Ayton left, and Phoenix having no way to restock significantly in between.

I like Booker, but I don't see him as a guy like Tatum or Luka whom you can surround with whatever and be a playoff team. Those picks would have some serious lottery equity.

Heck, any Durant/CP3 injuries and 2025 could get spicy. Just because LeBron is immortal doesn't mean every old guy is suddenly an awesome bet.

Those picks are going to be awesome when Kyrie gets traded there in the summer on a 4 year max for Ayton and Dario Saric and proceeds to burn the place down

 

[ifmanis5]

The sudden dismantling of the Nets makes the Celtics path to the Finals a lot easier for the next few years. When they had their stars together and healthy (which was not very often) they were very scary (not with Simmons as much as the non-tank Harder version).

 

[Euclis20]

The sudden dismantling of the Nets makes the Celtics path to the Finals a lot easier for the next few years. When they had their stars together and healthy (which was not very often) they were very scary (not with Simmons as much as the non-tank Harder version).

Yup. A week ago, there were 4 teams with a legit chance to win the East, now it's 3 (with all 3 making very minor adjustments at the deadline that don't really move the needle too much). Certainly a plus for the Celtics.

 

[DGreenwood]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=922zfofpLuQ&list=PLlVlyGVtvuVkAiuNG6gXxaUgjekofxxgs&index=5&ab_channel=NBA

 

[brendan f]

Please share the most stats models you are referring to.

From what I can see so far this season he is ahead of the prior three seasons in aggregate in FG%, FT% and per 36 rebounds. He is slightly down this season in 3P% and about the same as the prior three years in per 36 assists.

His usage is up this season relative to the prior three as is his TS.

His per 36 turnovers are up this season however that is largely due to increased usage.

I don't have access to LEBRON or DARKO however I would be surprised if either of those show him worse this year than the prior three.

'RAPTOR has him having the worst season of his career since his rookie year, EPM has him ranked 48th in the league.

On/Off numbers are not pretty:
+4.4 NET on
+11.4 NET off

 

[Spelunker]

'RAPTOR has him having the worst season of his career since his rookie year, EPM has him ranked 48th in the league.

On/Off numbers are not pretty:
+4.4 NET on
+11.4 NET off

Which probably correlates pretty well with his w/o Tatum, w/ Tatum minutes.

 

[Don Buddin's GS]

Steve Bulpett thinks Terrence Ross who is getting bought out by the Magic is a possibility:

View: https://twitter.com/SteveBHoop/status/1624464497833349121

 

[DGreenwood]

This may seem like a dumb exercise, because we all know who the players on the team are, but I just decided to go look at the full roster because I couldn't remember where the weak links are and figured I was forgetting somebody. But nope. Aside from the two-way guys (Davison and Kabengele), there's no one on the roster who I can't see having a positive impact in an important game if they were forced into playing meaningful minutes. I don't remember having a team that was playable that deep into the roster.

 

[bosockboy]

9-13 slots in some order are Muscala, Hauser, Pritchard, Kornet and Blake. All pretty valuable contributors. Legit 13 deep roster.

 

[lovegtm]

This may seem like a dumb exercise, because we all know who the players on the team are, but I just decided to go look at the full roster because I couldn't remember where the weak links are and figured I was forgetting somebody. But nope. Aside from the two-way guys (Davison and Kabengele), there's no one on the roster who I can't see having a positive impact in an important game if they were forced into playing meaningful minutes. I don't remember having a team that was playable that deep into the roster.

They quietly have gotten a Heat Culture type thing going, after being shallow for a few years.

 

[Havlicheck]

Steve Bulpett thinks Terrence Ross who is getting bought out by the Magic is a possibility:

View: https://twitter.com/SteveBHoop/status/1624464497833349121

Ross is signing with the Suns now. “ if Durant is basketball God, then Book is basketball Jesus” from Ross’s Twitter page

 

[HomeRunBaker]

One day when they are long retired from the NBA, Dillon Brooks and Grant Williams are going to meet at some random playground and go at it 1-on-1 for like 3 hours.

 

[GeorgeCostanza]

One day when they are long retired from the NBA, Dillon Brooks and Grant Williams are going to meet at some random playground and go at it 1-on-1 for like 3 hours.

And Brooks still won’t be able to back him down

 

[lostjumper]

8 guys in double figures for the Celtics. That was a good team win without Brown, Smart, and Brogden.

 

[RorschachsMask]

Against teams with a top 10 net rating.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Against teams with a top 10 net rating.

Its ridiculous

 

[DGreenwood]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDYzxTMmHC0&ab_channel=NBA

 

[lovegtm]

Against teams with a top 10 net rating.

Matches the eye test: they consistently get up and play with energy/focus against good teams.

That's exactly what you want to use the regular season for, imo, particularly when the #1 seed doesn't look as critical now.

 

[m0ckduck]

8 guys in double figures for the Celtics. That was a good team win without Brown, Smart, and Brogden.

Impressive that while missing 3-4 of their best players over the last two games, the bench still managed to put up 32, 34 points. I used to think 1986 was the good standard of deep bench rosters, but this group has them beat.

 

[InstaFace]

Matches the eye test: they consistently get up and play with energy/focus against good teams.

That's exactly what you want to use the regular season for, imo, particularly when the #1 seed doesn't look as critical now.

Yep, and it means I expect them to go balls-to-the-wall vs Milwaukee tomorrow night, dunno Brogdon's issue but if he or Smart can take the floor I bet to see them. The Pistons game on Wednesday will look like a ghost town by comparison.

 

[Tudor Fever]

Yep, and it means I expect them to go balls-to-the-wall vs Milwaukee tomorrow night, dunno Brogdon's issue but if he or Smart can take the floor I bet to see them. The Pistons game on Wednesday will look like a ghost town by comparison.

Deja vu? Last year, they crushed the Sixers on the road on the Tuesday before the break, and then lost to the lowly Pistons at home the next day (ending a 9 game winning streak.)

 

[128]

Deja vu? Last year, they crushed the Sixers on the road on the Tuesday before the break, and then lost to the lowly Pistons at home the next day (ending a 9 game winning streak.)

Those Pistons, for whatever reason, had the C's number.

 

[bosockboy]

View: https://twitter.com/celtics/status/1625231762346352641?s=46&t=I3sx1U0maPqbbgG9hQH_Cg

 

[DGreenwood]

For most of the season, without even really thinking too much about it, I've subconsciously had Malcolm Brogdon ranked as a better player than Derrick White. I'm starting to wonder if I had that wrong.

 

[bigq]

View: https://twitter.com/celtics/status/1625231762346352641?s=46&t=I3sx1U0maPqbbgG9hQH_Cg

That's great. Pretty good week for him.

 

[Cellar-Door]

For most of the season, without even really thinking too much about it, I've subconsciously had Malcolm Brogdon ranked as a better player than Derrick White. I'm starting to wonder if I had that wrong.

I think White is a little better, but it's close, White is more well rounded, Brogdon is a better offensive player

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I think White is a little better, but it's close, White is more well rounded, Brogdon is a better offensive player

Def close as I had Brogdon ahead of White to start the year but Derrick has really found his comfort zone with Jayson/Jaylen. I think a lot of this shows how difficult it is to become incorporated into an already established system in midseaskn as White was last year.

I disagree about the well rounded part as Brogdon is often defending bigs effectively in the low post, sometimes on switches and sometimes by design as he’s really good at it.

 

[Devizier]

For most of the season, without even really thinking too much about it, I've subconsciously had Malcolm Brogdon ranked as a better player than Derrick White. I'm starting to wonder if I had that wrong.

Brogdon is probably better when he's on the court, but White is more durable, has starter-level stamina. Really a great problem to have, if we're comparing how great the 5/6th men on the team are.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Def close as I had Brogdon ahead of White to start the year but Derrick has really found his comfort zone with Jayson/Jaylen. I think a lot of this shows how difficult it is to become incorporated into an already established system in midseaskn as White was last year.

I disagree about the well rounded part as Brogdon is often defending bigs effectively in the low post, sometimes on switches and sometimes by design as he’s really good at it.

I meant it in the sense I think White is pretty good at everything, where Brogdon may guard multiple positions, he doesn't defend any of them as well as White. Brogdon is a more consistent offensive player, White is the better defender, always has been.

 

[Ed Hillel]

I don't think White is all that far behind Smart at this point. That guard lineup, if healthy, is just insane.

 

[teddykgb]

Whites ranking is decided by his shooting percentage. He’s shot well recently but we have also seen him be an absolute bricklayer. If he can shoot it he’s better than Brogdon but in my head in a big playoff game I still feel way more confident with Brogdon

 

[joe dokes]

Brogdon is probably better when he's on the court, but White is more durable, has starter-level stamina. Really a great problem to have, if we're comparing how great the 5/6th men on the team are.

I think that's the difference right there. Under no circumstances can the Celtics reasonably expect Brogdon to go 35-40 mins for several games while the backcourt is out of action.

 

[Koufax]

Talking about how strong the guards are when you have two All Star wings and RW III at center is one of the reasons I love this team. It is deep and balanced, it's not three stars and a bunch of JAGs.

 

[benhogan]

At the time of the trade, White was probably a lot closer to Dejounte Murray than any of us recognized (I pined for Murray)
Same system, teammates, & opponents.

Murray (8257 mins) +1.2 // +2.5 On-Off
White (6807 mins) +4.2 // +5 On-Off

I'm not saying White was better, but Derrick White does a lot of things that are not captured by standard counting numbers.
For example, he draws an inordinate # of offensive fouls. He gets back in transition defense at a high level. He is capable of pushing pace offensively. Does a lot of things well, but isn't flashy.

What does Team Darko say?

 

[Tudor Fever]

It’s an embarrassment of riches for sure. They are 1A, 1B, and 1C in some order. No wonder PP is frustrated.

People tend to underestimate White because his skill set is pretty well rounded and he doesn’t consistently wow you in any one particular area. Also he has never been highly pedigreed.

 

[DGreenwood]

What does Team Darko say?