2022-2023 General Celtics thread

The Raccoon

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 24, 2018
947
Germany
To keep the Derrick White Love Train going, here are the 4 Celtics who played the most games of the 57 total games this season (to date):
White 57 (all of them!)
Grant 56
Hauser 55
JT 54

Now if we're talking "minutes played", nobody on the C's compares remotely to JT, but again, White is a couple minutes ahead of Grant with 1566 min only lagging JT (2017 min) and JB (1707 min).

He's been absolutely integral for this teams success this season!
 

chilidawg

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 22, 2015
5,986
Cultural hub of the universe
Keith Smith with another great wrap up. Ball movement is beautiful in this one. Focus is on DWhite playmaking in the first few clips, some strong work.

I'm Team White on this one, On-Off is pretty telling, White +8.9, Brogdon -5.8. I know, context blah blah blah. That's a huge difference. My eye is much more generous to Brogdon, but I think White has been outstanding.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2023/2/13/23597743/four-straight-shorthanded-wins-10-takeaways-from-boston-celtics-memphis-grizzlies.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,217

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,807
At the time of the trade, White was probably a lot closer to Dejounte Murray than any of us recognized (I pined for Murray)
Same system, teammates, & opponents.

Murray (8257 mins) +1.2 // +2.5 On-Off
White (6807 mins) +4.2 // +5 On-Off

I'm not saying White was better, but Derrick White does a lot of things that are not captured by standard counting numbers.
For example, he draws an inordinate # of offensive fouls. He gets back in transition defense at a high level. He is capable of pushing pace offensively. Does a lot of things well, but isn't flashy.

What does Team Darko say?
I'm sure many people forget (not those on SOSH though) that following White making TEAM USA during the 2019 World Cup and then having a break-out performance in the bubble where he averaged almost 19 ppg and shot 39% from 3P land, it was thought that White could be an All-Star the next year.

Obviously, he never made it but he was pretty highly thought of at that time.'

But to your question, here's the Murray/White comparison.

61184
 

128

Member
SoSH Member
May 4, 2019
10,097
Forget back-to-backs; Time Lord can't seem to play consecutive games anymore, even if there's a day off or two in between.
 

DeadlySplitter

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 20, 2015
33,621
I was wondering if Tatum would also miss tomorrow. Totally fine with this.

The main difference between the 1 and 2 seed is likely facing the 76ers in the 2nd round instead of the Nets or Cavs. That feels like a marginal difference. Players / teams have been prioritizing rest over micromanaging seeding (game 7 at home!!!) for awhile now, too.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
32,821
A lot of good players, man, there are a lot of good players on this team. I think I watched almost every game of Brad’s first year and I don’t know how many of those guys could crack the top 10 of this roster.
 
Last edited:

deconstruction

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2006
3,664
Hanover NH
I was wondering if Tatum would also miss tomorrow. Totally fine with this.

The main difference between the 1 and 2 seed is likely facing the 76ers in the 2nd round instead of the Nets or Cavs. That feels like a marginal difference. Players / teams have been prioritizing rest over micromanaging seeding (game 7 at home!!!) for awhile now, too.
Cleveland is one game behind Philly. It's a toss up at this point for 3/4.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,226
Imaginationland
Cleveland is one game behind Philly. It's a toss up at this point for 3/4.
Philly has the hardest remaining schedule, by quite a bit. Their remaining opponents' win% is .545 (hardest in the league), and the difference between them and the team in 2nd is the same as the difference between the team in 2nd and the team in 12th. Cleveland has one of the easier remaining schedules, at just .486 (25th hardest).
 

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
19,589
Somewhere
Not going to lie, I missed last nights game. Figured the bench mob would get rolled. I definitely didn’t have Muscala going the distance.
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
44,740
Melrose, MA
It was a great win, but I came away super annoyed at Mazzulla for sitting on both of his overtime time outs as he stood by and watched his team's final play offense just collapse under pressure from the Bucks D. If you are going to play Grant 47 minutes (and Muscala and White 43 minutes) then you owe it to those guys not to quit on them before the final buzzer. They sent the game into OT with a final seconds ATO play (improbable as that was) and they could have tried another one but Mazzulla instead just let them get shut down.

Some aspects of player usage were also weird in this game. Rob played just 4 very effective minutes in the first half and then 9 less effective minutes in the second. 13 total. Maybe he was on a strict minutes limit, although Mazzulla denied this. But if Mazzulla was telling the truth, and Rob was good to go, it was a terrible coaching move to not play Rob in the OT. Muscala's legs were shot and he was near useless, the one three he attempted was a miss by a mile. Maybe something is up with Rob.

An impressive game for Muscala although he faded late. He had his 37th career start in his 478th career game. He set his NBA career highs for minutes played and FGA. He got his first ever NBA technical foul, when he dunked and then was called for taunting the Bucks bench. He had 18 points, 8 rebounds, a steal, and a turnover for the game. But most of that damage was done in the first quarter, when he scored 10 points on 4 of 6 shooting. In Q2, he scored 3 points on 1-5. In Q3, 5 points on 2 of 4. Q4/OT, 0 points on 1 missed shot. His last couple of shot attempts were way off.

Derrick White was also excellent but gassed at the end. 27 points, 12 assists, 3 steals, 2 rebounds, 3 turnovers in 43 minutes. He shot 10 of 24 from the field.

Grant Williams was the iron man, going 47 minutes and putting up a double-double (12-10) with 4 assists. Five turnovers.

Sam Hauser, in 39 minutes, had 15 points and 9 rebounds. He was only 3-8 from three, but one of his makes was an improbable for him final seconds ATO play where he took the inbounds pass, took a couple of dribbles, and then hit a deep three in Middleton's face. Don't think he's ever hit one like that before and may never again.

Blake played 24 minutes, had a great statistical line, and - swear to God - there was a short stretch in the third quarter where he basically took over the game. He scored 15 points on 6-9 shooting along with 6 rebounds, 6 assists, a steal, a block, and drew 2 key charges, one on Giannis and the other on Lopez (to send Lopez out of the game with foul trouble).

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWbGaahuUjk


There were 3 long stretches towards the end of the second, third, and fourth quarters where the Celtics were just shut down completely. Had they been able to avoid one of those it might have ended better.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,217
It was a great win, but I came away super annoyed at Mazzulla for sitting on both of his overtime time outs as he stood by and watched his team's final play offense just collapse under pressure from the Bucks D. If you are going to play Grant 47 minutes (and Muscala and White 43 minutes) then you owe it to those guys not to quit on them before the final buzzer. They sent the game into OT with a final seconds ATO play (improbable as that was) and they could have tried another one but Mazzulla instead just let them get shut down.

Some aspects of player usage were also weird in this game. Rob played just 4 very effective minutes in the first half and then 9 less effective minutes in the second. 13 total. Maybe he was on a strict minutes limit, although Mazzulla denied this. But if Mazzulla was telling the truth, and Rob was good to go, it was a terrible coaching move to not play Rob in the OT. Muscala's legs were shot and he was near useless, the one three he attempted was a miss by a mile. Maybe something is up with Rob.
Not sure what's going on with TL, but I'm not buying Mazzulla's denials at all. The team has been oddly silent on his injury since the Toronto game. In this day and age with agents involved in everything, and uninformed media types and disgruntled former players taking shots at the Celtics medical staff, I would not be surprised if Stevens directed Coach Joe to say nothing that would hint at any restrictions on Williams' playing time.
 

128

Member
SoSH Member
May 4, 2019
10,097
Not sure what's going on with TL, but I'm not buying Mazzulla's denials at all. The team has been oddly silent on his injury since the Toronto game. In this day and age with agents involved in everything, and uninformed media types and disgruntled former players taking shots at the Celtics medical staff, I would not be surprised if Stevens directed Coach Joe to say nothing that would hint at any restrictions on Williams' playing time.
Which former players have taken shots at the C's medical staff?
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 26, 2006
14,305
Re: Rob's playing time - they play again tonight, and Luke, Pritch, and Rob all seemed to get way less time than I would have expected. Maybe they go big minutes tonight?

Brogdon, in general, looks like he needs the break.
 

JCizzle

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 11, 2006
20,669
Which former players have taken shots at the C's medical staff?
IT comes to mind immediately. Granted I recall reading about his long-term issues here (radsoxfan nailed it I think?) before he ever got traded.
 

chilidawg

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 22, 2015
5,986
Cultural hub of the universe
Also from that Jay King article: "Derrick White believed he should have taken a pull-up jump shot instead of feeding Grant Williams on the wing. Williams thought he should have fired immediately on the catch instead of pump-faking his way into a more difficult situation. Coach Joe Mazzulla said he should have called a timeout after watching the two Celtics pass up decent looks."

Lots of anguish over Joe's timeout usage in the game thread, and certainly in hindsight that last possession was a good time for one. OTOH, he saved two for the final minute of regulation, and that turned out to be the right move. Avoided a jump ball with the first and set up the Howser shot with the second.
 

the moops

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 19, 2016
4,753
Saint Paul, MN
Blake played 24 minutes, had a great statistical line, and - swear to God - there was a short stretch in the third quarter where he basically took over the game. He scored 15 points on 6-9 shooting along with 6 rebounds, 6 assists, a steal, a block, and drew 2 key charges, one on Giannis and the other on Lopez (to send Lopez out of the game with foul trouble).
He did get torched several times by any and every guard/wing on the Bucks. He does a great job against bigs, but man is he slow out on the wing
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,807
It was a great win, but I came away super annoyed at Mazzulla for sitting on both of his overtime time outs as he stood by and watched his team's final play offense just collapse under pressure from the Bucks D.
As Chilidawg mentioned, Mazzulla agrees with you in general but Derrick White said post-game (this was on Forsberg CsTalk podcast) that the Cs only had one TO.

I'll also say it's interesting that White said that he probably should have shot and put Grant in a bad position and took responsibility; Grant also said that he should have shot when he was open.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,807
One other interesting fact I didn't know until Forsberg mentioned it - the Cs starting 5 have played all of 29 minutes together this season. (All against GSW.)

It would be great to see a stretch of games where they are all playing together again before (and through) the playoffs.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,233
Giannis played his most regular season minutes since 2016 (!). The Bucks wanted this one. They barely got it, because the Celtics can contain Giannis better than most, and are a much deeper team than the Bucks.

Also encouraging that Lopez didn't seem to alter the game a ton inside on defense. The Celtics seem to have gotten more comfortable playing him over time.
 
Last edited:

chilidawg

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 22, 2015
5,986
Cultural hub of the universe
Also encouraging that Lopez didn't seem to alter the game a ton inside on defense. The Celtics seem to have gotten more comfortable playing him over time.
Joe's strategy seemed to be to maximize the minutes of shooters to minimize the effectiveness of Milwaukee's drop coverage. Muscala, GW, Hauser, Blake over Kornet and TL.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,368
Santa Monica
Giannis played his most regular season minutes since 2016 (!). The Bucks wanted this one. They barely got it, because the Celtics can contain Giannis better than most, and are a much deeper team than the Bucks.

Also encouraging that Lopez didn't seem to alter the game a ton inside on defense. The Celtics seem to have gotten more comfortable playing him over time.
36pts aside, the Celtics did a good job on Giannis

Both Muscala/Hauser were able to guide Giannis away from the front of the rim without using their hands.
Even Blake is capable of playing 8-10 physical minutes. That gives Boston numerous bodies/fouls to throw at GA in a long series.

Rotation is developing, 2nd unit (w/Tatum) is going to be beastly come playoffs.

Muscala is a flat-out heist and is the finishing touch this team needed.
The TL limp is concerning but the team has better insurance this year.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,368
Santa Monica
Coach Joe has improved on his in-game TO usage during the course of the season. A few questionable end-of-game situations (Miami) in the last month. Joe admitted as much in the presser. Karalis does a good re-cap of the end-of-game timeout last night (starts at the 24-minute mark)

Overall great game, with plenty of bench progress/player integration, and our rookie HC is very aware/improving.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dco1kfe2U6M
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,233
One other takeaway here is that I'm really, really not concerned about playing games in Milwaukee.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,614
Also from that Jay King article: "Derrick White believed he should have taken a pull-up jump shot instead of feeding Grant Williams on the wing. Williams thought he should have fired immediately on the catch instead of pump-faking his way into a more difficult situation. Coach Joe Mazzulla said he should have called a timeout after watching the two Celtics pass up decent looks."

Lots of anguish over Joe's timeout usage in the game thread, and certainly in hindsight that last possession was a good time for one. OTOH, he saved two for the final minute of regulation, and that turned out to be the right move. Avoided a jump ball with the first and set up the Howser shot with the second.
Interesting about that Hauser shot. IIRC they took almost the whole 5 to get the ball in. (I *think* it was that inbounds. There was definitely one where they had trouble) I understand Mazzulla has spoken about the TOs, but in real time, I thought that the previous inbounding difficulty played into not calling one later.

Actual coaches or players would know better, but I wonder if an inexperienced-in-crunchtime 5 has more trouble inbounding to a set play against a set defense or running a play on the fly.
 
Last edited:

jezza1918

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
2,685
South Dartmouth, MA
One other takeaway here is that I'm really, really not concerned about playing games in Milwaukee.
Said this exact thing to my brother this morning. If I'm a Bucks fan falling behind by 14 against the celts B squad really isn't that alarming (emotional letdown going up against this version of the celts instead of a 'real' matchup blah blah blah). But I'd find it truly alarming that once the Bucks took a 4 point lead with 10 min to go they couldn't run away with it, at home, against this version of the Celts.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,233
Said this exact thing to my brother this morning. If I'm a Bucks fan falling behind by 14 against the celts B squad really isn't that alarming (emotional letdown going up against this version of the celts instead of a 'real' matchup blah blah blah). But I'd find it truly alarming that once the Bucks took a 4 point lead with 10 min to go they couldn't run away with it, at home, against this version of the Celts.
View: https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1625873713919930369?s=20
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,368
Santa Monica
Derrick White incessantly pushing pace leads to some nice transition baskets. His one-on-one and floater games are high-level.

The number of defensive fouls he draws every game( charges, moving screens, over the back, etc) is hilarious. The dude has a lot of Marcus Smart in him.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,523
around the way
Overall great game, with plenty of bench progress/player integration, and our rookie HC is very aware/improving.
This. Man it is a pleasure to watch Joe level up.

Aside from his OG Arnold Terminator processing and improving, I love the brooding, intense humility. The story is never about him.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
22,838
I think depth has become underrated in the NBA. We went through a wave where depth was overrated because it looks good in the regular season and then is less important in the postseason when rotations shorten and having elite stars really matters. Today, I think because of the matchup-oriented schemes both on offense and defense, having versatile players that are lack huge holes in their game, having depth in the rotation is critical to a team's success.

You can't play more than one player who is a non-factor from three, and you can't play more than one player (and ideally none) that is a suspect defender. Outside of TimeLord not being a three point threat, the Celtics shouldn't play anyone in their playoff rotation who isn't an at least serviceable defender or anyone who isn't a reliable shooter from three. Teams won't be able to get favorable switches very easily on offense, and teams won't ignore non-shooters on defense. That opens up everything for Tatum/Brown and is really the secret to postseason success in the modern NBA, imo.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,368
Santa Monica
This. Man it is a pleasure to watch Joe level up.

Aside from his OG Arnold Terminator processing and improving, I love the brooding, intense humility. The story is never about him.
Yeah, I think he has a dry sense of humor with a touch of sarcasm that throws the reporters off?

Loving his player combinations/rotations. He's trying different stuff out and fine-tuning his approach. His humility toward TOs last night after an intense loss is great for this team's future. And I really don't care if he tells us TL's injury/minutes situation, they clearly are being careful with Rob which is the right approach.

Everything we're hearing is that they have a great locker room, which is partially attributable to the Head Coach